Post-Palin Speech Thread

First thoughts... There is no doubt that Sarah Palin is a good speaker, perhaps even a great one for this context. She certainly acquitted herself well, and came of as competent (the bar was low in a sense, because of the week's bad news, but also high in that she needed to deliver at least a decent speech in order to not end up being a complete drag on the GOP ticket). In all, it was a good speech.

However Palin also came off as angry -- really angry -- and it's not clear to me that America is in a place where they want an angry ticket. Where there were feelings of combativeness towards the world four years ago, a sense of defiance, today it's not clear to me that we are still in a Rudy Giuliani moment. Indeed, Giuliani's campaign was the least successful in modern history, garnering a single delegate for the roughly $60 million spent. Republicans might be there; those in the hall sounded enthused at the harsh rhetoric from Palin. But whether the American people are there still at this moment in time remains to be seen.

Your thoughts?

Update [2008-9-3 23:22:34 by Todd Beeton]:After Chris Matthews referenced Norma Rae to describe Palin's speech, Keith's response was perfect:

Norma Rae by way of Tracy Flick.

Update [2008-9-3 23:29:49 by Todd Beeton]:Ambinder on Twitter:

Unanswered question: she's smart and likeable and funny... But why did McCain choose her?

Below the fold, the response from the Obama campaign...

“The speech that Governor Palin gave was well delivered, but it was written by George Bush’s speechwriter and sounds exactly like the same divisive, partisan attacks we’ve heard from George Bush for the last eight years. If Governor Palin and John McCain want to define ‘change’ as voting with George Bush 90% of the time, that’s their choice, but we don’t think the American people are ready to take a 10% chance on change,” said Bill Burton, Obama Campaign Spokesman.

Tags: Sarah Palin, White House 2008 (all tags)




did she say anything about her platform?

by sepulvedaj3 2008-09-03 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: disgusted.

No.  Nothing.

It was a First Lady speech.

by Jordache 2008-09-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: disgusted.

That's exactly what I was thinking. It seemed like a first lady (first spouse) speech. It seemed like a speech designed to compete with Michelle Obama's the way it was so heavy on the biography and family.

by recusancy 2008-09-03 07:47PM | 0 recs
Great Speech

I am very impressed with Sarah Palin. I think she hit a grand slam home run. Whether the Republicans get a big bounce out of this I don't know, but I suspect they will.

Now we know we can't underestimate her. I know people may belittle her for being the Miss Alaska runnerup in 1984. But I have personally known winners of beauty pageants before. They win not only because they are physically attractive, but because they are smart, quick witted, poised and good public speakers.

I say to Joe Biden, beware. Winning a political debate is not about winning debate points and winning on the facts. It's about charm, confidence, wit and the ability to connect. Being long winded and trying to speak in paragraphs is the prescription to losing. Sarah Palin will be a very good debater.

Hopefully, the scandals will bring down the ticket. But after the speech, I am more convinced than ever that Obama made a huge mistake by not picking Hillary. Picking Hillary would have blocked McCain from choosing Palin and prevented teh GOP from grabbing a share of the woman's rights claim.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

Dude, she read a speech off a teleprompter. What were you expecting, for her to shit her pants and run off the stage?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:20PM | 0 recs
Right on..what the heck she came off as

a Roboton delivering the lines from the Teleprompter..Even Asimo would have done better...

by louisprandtl 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

Seriously. Far from low expectations, I had very high ones. All week I heard, "ooh, don't underestimate her, she is a sleeping tiger". That speech was exactly what she DIDN'T need to give. If you think that all she had to do was deliver something, then maybe you liked it. For anyone who was skeptical of her abilities, they rolled their eyes really early on.

THINK about it. If you liked Obama but were undecided, would you want to hear a speech that did nothing but insult him?

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 07:25PM | 0 recs
I certianly was

You described my expectations exactly.  I also predict that during the debates she will wet herself and then still her water glass on Joe Biden.

by Nameless Soldier 2008-09-03 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I certianly was

Nah, she'll win the debate with Biden, because--once again--she won't shit her pants and run off crying, so the media will again hail her as the most amazingly awesomely terrific thing ever.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

Uh, this speech was aimed directly at Republicans.  That means evil liberals like me were either annoyed or tuned it out.  How independents take it is up in the air, but I am too impressed when the rookie VP chooses her first public speaking event to just trash everyone and everything.  If she had built up a reservoir of respect then it would have stung.  

Guilliani has the "respect" to pull off the pit bull role.  He pissed me off, which means his speech was good for what they were trying to do.  But Palin just made me bored

by Xris 2008-09-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

That's exactly right.  We are not the target audience.  The target audience, all week, has been hearing about what an incompetent cheerleading bimbo Sarah Palin is, thanks to overly cocky Obama supporters and the media.  So ya, her expectations were real low among the people that matter: swing voters.  And she may have connected with them.

I have no idea, as I'm not one of them.  I thought she hit the right notes, but her constant attacks on Obama could go either way.  

by RedSox04 2008-09-03 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

The media did their job.  I doubt the media will regrow their balls after this, but it was great seeing the media do its job for once as in provide us with information on political leaders rather than regurgitate party talking points.

I thought she was way too aggressive for her first time out and I don't know if that connects with swing voters.  But I don't am not a swing voter so I am not going to pretend I know what the impact will be.  

Oh and you are right, its all of us cocky Obama supporters who busted our asses for him in the primary, donated money, and propelled his candidacy that allowed her to give a text book attack speech.  

by Xris 2008-09-03 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

I'm actually somewhat optimistic that the media will maintain its focus, for a while at least. The problem is that McCain has kicked too fast and too hard, and is getting direct backlash from the media instead of the usual mea culpas.

The media is willing to back off a specific charge if you hit them hard claiming it's an unfair attack. But I think challenging them on the entire notion of vetting a candidate may have just been too much to take.

It's also not going to help -- with the media -- that the right-wing punditry is divided and has been directly caught out saying different things when they believe no one's listening. That will only play marginally to the voters, but to the media, I think it's a sign that they can keep on the attack.

Finally, this is all about scandal. And there's sex thrown in, and an attactive woman. The media loves stories about that kind of thing.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-03 08:40PM | 0 recs
unqualified = incompetent cheerleading bimbo???

wow, you're so right.  She can indeed read a teleprompter with relative competency.  She gave a speech which is something some presedential candidates, mayors and eighth graders have a talent for, but it hardly qualifies them for VP or even student counsel president.  

Let's get to the substance of what she said.  She gave a rather angry, partisan speech which will indeed resonate with the converted.  She gave myriad reasons not to vote for Obama but she hasn't undercut the central narrative against her candidacy--that she isn't qualified to be president. Which to my biased opinion she didn't fail, but she didn't do what was necessary to comfort the unconvinced.  I also suspect her highly antagonistic stance will not resonate with Independents--whose support tends to waver under an excessive display of partisanship.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-09-03 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

She's not incompetent, she's just a rightwing hack who would be better off in 1858 than 2008.  Y'know, back when abortion was a crime, minorities were treated like garbage, immigrants were attacked, shotgun weddings were the norm, and everyone loved the Christian god.  Ugh.  Nice to know Sarah Palin wants to single handedly bring us back 150 years.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-09-03 08:39PM | 0 recs
I'd probably see it as a grand slam

if I was a staunch Republican. But I admit, it's hard for me to generate enough empathy to really get in their heads.

As a liberal, this wasn't a scary moment. The people that cheered her cheered Fred Thompson's snoozefest, and I'd be curious how this played outside the Xcel center.

David Gregory, to my eyes, was trying to be impressed. That's in stark contrast to the reactions to Obama's speech.

So, red meat - absolutely. Great speech? meh.

by Neef 2008-09-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd probably see it as a grand slam

Fred drew blood.

Palin clearly shows the base loves her.

But her speech was flat given the moment and its not clear if it played well or not.

She did manage to attack Obama's record with reasonable success and throw around some large 40 billion dollars type numbers related to things she has been involved with.  Hard to minimize a major role in a 40 billion dollar negotiation.  Also clearly staked a possibly winning position on drilling+nuke + coal +green.

If Obama had similar muscle against McCain he is a better speaker and an attractive man and could probably sell it.

But I hear McCain and Palin give energy/economic policy platforms that are not trivial to defeat and Obama is coming back with Bush Bush Bush.

Obama needs to define with specificity WHAT CHANGE he is selling.  Currently McCain is doing a better job at that with regards to energy as I think all of the above beats green only energy independence.  Obama needs to frame that better.

Currently my sense is Obama has a slight lead but emotionally he thinks and acts like he is up 20 pts.  This gives McCain/Palin the underdog slot for the rest of the race.

That may be worth 3 pts and if we are only up 3 pts after the GOP convention I think we lose it.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:31PM | 0 recs
who? Mitt Romney? Mike Huckabee?

Because I'm sure THEY have real appeal to independents. Putting Hillary on the ticket woulda made the McCain VP choice worse than it was.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-03 07:30PM | 0 recs
Ronald Reagan was a Radical Right Winger

But because of his charm and Hollywood past he appealed to independents. As a liberal, I underestimated Ronald Reagan because he didn't speak in facts and never gave me a list of programs.

But now that I have done some study about the art of persuasion, I've learned that people don't like to hear about nerdy facts and figures. Sarah Palin's speech is the type of speech that appeals to independents.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 07:44PM | 0 recs
Of Course

Bill Clinton is the only Democrat to win reelection since FDR.

I've also have stated that the nature of coalitional politics make Republican women strong in general elections against Democratic men, especially when history can be made by electing the first women for that office.

I don't have the statistical studies with me, but the studies indicated that Democratic women ran strong in primaries and Republican women in general elections. Republican women run weak in primaries because Republicans have a tendency to be sexist. However, in more recent years, Democratic women have been doing better in general elections.

It's very true that in large modern industrialized societies women run stronger as conservatives.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:01PM | 0 recs
But they are Republicans

Prior to the 1990s, women had much more success running for office as Republicans than Democrats. It was especially true for executive offices. Since 1990, Democratic women have done very well in primaries (They actually have a better percentage chance of winning than a male candidate) and they've done better at winning general elections.

Yes, I do fear that the excitement of having the first woman president would make Sarah Palin almost unbeatable in 2012 if McCain would win and then not run for reelection. I know this makes people angry when I say this, but that's my opinion.

But I also want to add, that I don't think the situation is hopeless.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:55PM | 0 recs
Because it was 1980

Ronald Reagan won because it was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was a failure.

by elrod 2008-09-03 08:23PM | 0 recs
They paid off Iran to keep hostages longer..

Ronald Reagan won because they paid off Iran to keep the hostages longer.. paid them off with Stinger missiles, or something similar, (or was that later) I think, right?

Talk about hypocrisy...

Google "Iran Contra"

Re: Palin, is it just me, or did her speaking style put you off. I just can't see her serving as our representative abroad, or anywhere.. she seems vapid, her enthusiasm is too girlish.. She may be 42 but she seems as if she is still in her 30's or 20's.

I don't understand how or why she was picked or why the GOP thinks she will help McCain get elected. Seeing her, that doesn't seem like it makes any sense.

The whole "Washington insider" thread struck me as ridiculous, because (duh) Obviously, they are the insiders, trying to maintain their status quo, not us...

How can they get away with that?

by architek 2008-09-04 05:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Ronald Reagan was a Radical Right Winger

Mojo'd for "As a Liberal"

by QTG 2008-09-03 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: who? Mitt Romney? Mike Huckabee?

I agree here.  If Obama picked HRC, McCain would have probably picked Romney....and did anyone catch his speech?  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Unfortunately, the Wal-Mart crowd is likely eating up the Palin speech.

She adds excitement to the Republican ticket, which is unforunate for Obama.

by mjc888 2008-09-03 07:47PM | 0 recs
fuck you and your grudge against the Clintons

she wouldn't add anymore excitement than Sarah Palin does on McCain's ticket, probably less. The GOP does know they lost to the Clintons twice, and they're be some level of demoralization. And why would you think bashing Hillary for 4 days would have gotten the GOP somewhere? They'd be doing even worse, because viewers would see it as all negative. The alternatives to Palin woulda done McCain far worse in the long run than Palin.

by Lakrosse 2008-09-03 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: i have no Clinton grudge

Bill Clinton drove the Republican base to distraction, that is how he won. They went crazy trying to take him down and his popularity went up. Hillary Clinton went through a similar process in the primary, as she was attacked by the media her appeal to independents went up.

If we play it wrong independents will flock to Palin.

by souvarine 2008-09-03 10:41PM | 0 recs
Re: You think Sarah Palin

I disagree.  I think Romney (well...the pre-2008 version) would have done quite well with independents, at least in a year not dominated by Obama's appeal to them.  Think about it: many/most independents don't care that he's Mormon.  They like his (previous) fiscal policies.  They like that he (used to be) socially moderate or liberal.  And he's good looking and previous successful governor of a New England state.  Lots to like there for indies.  Not so much for conservatives, which is why he wasn't picked, obviously.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-09-03 08:32PM | 0 recs
May be

But the nature of coalitional politics make Republican woman tough to beat in general elections, especially when there is the possibility of a first woman winning an elected office. If McCain wins the presidency, then in 4-8 years Palin will have the experience to become president. If McCain decided not to run for reelection in 2012, then I believe Palin would win the presidency and then win reelection in 2016, by Ronald Reagan like margins. We can't take her lightly and we must stop her now!

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: May be

Oh, stop your concern-trolling already. The 1's you've dished out blow your cover.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:41PM | 0 recs

I've been troll rated for simply stating that we cannot underestimate Palin. I know that people want to believe that McCain and Palin are so stupid that we Democrats can go to sleep until November and still win. No. McCain and Palin are formidable opponents. Also, people who swear at me deserved to be troll rated.

What kind of blog is this suppose to be? Should supporters always have to cheerlead? How can we have an intelligent discussion if everytime we express disagreement on a strategy point we get a troll rating.

I've been here for months now, and this is the first time I've used my power to troll rate.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

I never troll rated you.  You deserved to be sworn at when you make offensive concern trolling remarks and then insult our Nominee by saying that piece of shit speech was better than his acceptance speech?  

Now your point about not resting on laurels is valid.  But again, you are out of you F***ing mind if you think that speech was in the same league as Obama's speech.  Obama on his worst day can give a better speech than Palin can after making a deal with the devil to give a fantastic speech.  He is THAT much better than her.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

The speech was folksy, and witty. Palin also spoke with great confidence. It's a type of speech that appeals to a lot of Republicans and independents.

Personally, I know Obama is a great speaker. That's why he is the nominee. Let's face it, when it comes to persuasion, Obama is the only one of the few Democrats that I know that gets it. But I don't think that Obama's acceptance speech was his best speech, but was a speech he had to give. Give Palin some credit. Now we know we've got to work our tail off if we are going to win.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

 Dizzy, Palin actually makes the job quite a bit easier - while she lasts. The potential difficulty, if there is any, will come from the VP that is on the ballot in November. Palin won't make it there, imo, but if she does, then the task is as easy as it could be. You said earlier that she would have the experience to be President after being VP for a term or two - but we didn't just fall of the turnip truck (I was home schooled, so I know where babies come from) - some of us remember the last Dan Quayle.

by QTG 2008-09-03 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

"I know Obama is a great speaker. That's why he is the nominee."

Nice little subtle dig there to reinforce the "but he doesn't really have any substance" meme.  Thanks for that.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-09-03 08:35PM | 0 recs
I was complementing Obama

Do you really think that if Obama made boring speeches he would be the nominee? I want Democrats to be able to make great speeches.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I was complementing Obama

Obama made a great but not historic speech

Palin made a good but not great speech.  It was good largely because the speech writers are good as the delivery was not very professional.  But like it or not some people lowered expectations enough that is was probably sufficient.  As such it may have been equally effective even though it was clearly not of equal quality in terms of the craft of speechmaking.

The dynamics of politics actually favor Palin in that attacking her justly for lacking skill, experience etc reminds people of similar unjust attacks on Hillary and the fact that Obama chose not to include her.  

Obama didn't lay a good foundation to his campaign, base, experience, platform etc.

Palin is an earthquake and the very quake may reveal his foundational issues even if we don't respect the earthquake.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

And you use that "power" to troll-rate me? Wtf? You're being a wet blanket. We all know this won't be an easy race, but your repeated gloom-and-doom comments are grating to say the least.

We get it. We know the stakes. We don't control what the media does, so the urgent calls to "stop" this or "stop" that about Palin are falling on deaf ears. And yes, she's still a joke, regardless of whether she can scrunch up her little nose and read insults off a monitor.

If you want to continue being Chicken Little, you're going to continue getting these kind of responses. Buck up. We do pragmatic positivity here.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

No, you want me to be a cheerleader. I never said the situation was hopeless. Why don't you call the diarist a troll? Didn't he say that Palin delivered a good speech?

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:17PM | 0 recs

I'm not saying that we are in a hopeless position. It's too early to tell how this race is going up. But just because I say that we better wake up and start taking Sarah Palin seriously, you guys have to swear at me and troll rate me.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:06PM | 0 recs

Oxymoron:  "We have been taking Sarah Palin seriously. No one sees her as a pushover and everybody knows she was chosen to appeal to stupidity and ignorance in a country where elections are usually decided by stupidity and ignorance."

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

No.  You were troll-rated for saying you were "very impressed by Palin"...a no-talent ass clown.  You are a dupe, and a douche.  I will not gratify your user name with a rating.

Fuck off.

by lojasmo 2008-09-03 08:45PM | 0 recs
You are being abusive

Your language has no place on this site.

As I mentioned, I don't agree with anything that Palin said. But in my opinion, she delivered a very effective speech, and all you can say to me is fuck off.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: You are being abusive

Well how about this:

You serve no constructive purpose on this site.

Although Jerome agrees with you (and apparently is coddling you here) you are both mistaken.  Most people came away with a distinctly negative view of the speech.

Have fun trolling for McPalin.

by lojasmo 2008-09-04 06:25PM | 0 recs
White Working Women and the West

No mention of women's rights or any God talk. She talked directly to small town America and declared war on the MSM.

This was a home run and hits Obama from another direction. Kiss Montana, Colorado, and Nevada good-bye - it ain't gonna happen. North Carolina - not a chance in heck.

The battle will be against Obama's ground game and Palin's excited Christian conservative movement. Obama's get out the vote effort vs Palin's small town attack while targeting Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania - the states where this election will be won or lost. Most of all it will be how many votes Sarah can win from white working class women that voted for Hillary. I can predict Sarah will win the waitress vote by a landslide.

Tonight was won by Sarah Fair & Strong and by the women of America

by oliver777 2008-09-03 07:48PM | 0 recs

On your very first comment here

You are well on your way to sockpuppet 2nd grade!

by January 20 2008-09-03 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: May be

WTF are you smoking?  Seriously?  Palin would get her ASS handed to her by Hillary and by Warner and by Schweitzer... the three most likely Presidential nominees in the next 8 years.    Palin's rhetoric is NOT moving moderates to her.   She isn't Reagan...anyone who knows thing 1 about Reagan can tell you that.   She can't hold a candle to Reagan in speaking ability and Reagan now a days wouldn't be able to pull off the electoral victories he did in 80 and 84.   No candidate can.    TO even make that statement shows you don't know WTF you are talking about.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Newsflash

Are YOU a republican woman because its pretty clear you have some hatred for Hillary Clinton our most experienced and best positioned female potential future president.

If you are a team player maybe you should sort out which team you are playing for...

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:05PM | 0 recs
Not true..

>Republican women HATE Hilary Clinton.

Some do, because they have been told for years how evil she is, but many of the things they have been told simply aren't true.

Many others have gradually developed respect for her. So, I think the GOP is **OVERJOYED** that they are not running against Hilary.. You could see that night in the glee with which Giuliani attacked Obama. That is why they crossed over in the primaries to vote for Obama.

However, I don't think its going to go according to plan, I think Obama will win. And the GOP brand is SO tarnished that this is perhaps even their last hurrah.

Even if through some fluke McCain won, without a sea change, soon, the economy will be so messed up that he will really wish he hadn't.

Denial will only carry you so far, and when it fails, it fails massively.

by architek 2008-09-04 05:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

Sorry, kids -- only two ovaries per election.  Um... what?

by username 2008-09-03 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech do know that she didn't write that speech?

Not only did she not write it but they actually had a speech prepared for a Romney or a Pawlenty but they couldn't have Palin give what they called a "masculine" speech, so they had to re-write it.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-09-03 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Great Speech

only one of their speech writers doesn't suck or she is VERY bad at delivery and they had to alter style to fit her.

She had 2-3 GREAT lines and didn't draw blood with any of them.

Its possible that is what they wanted but I doubt it.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Angry without any reason to be, given she has no relation to neither McCain nor Obama. She was completely reading a speech written for her, and half of it was demonstrably false. The good news is that the harder she goes after Obama, the more room his campaign has to counterattack. I think he will, but focus it all on McCain.

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Which is exactly what Obama needs to do.  Remember McCain is the nominee, not Palin.  The more this race is about Palin the better, for now.  However, it will get too a point where attacking Palin may become a drag on Obama.  

Attack Palin by attacking McCain.  She likes and wants the personal attacks against herself.  It's how she operates and what she thrives on.  You can tell already.  Don't let her take advantage.

It's McCain stupid!

by Eric11 2008-09-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

hillary is going to have a field day with sarah palin

by longplay 2008-09-03 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Hillary attacking her as unfit will only weaken Obama who many see as only slightly less unfit.  

Its the issues we draw blood with and Hillary pushing issues only reinforces that Obama blew the first major decision of his GE race.

Obama and Biden need to do the heavy lifting or admit that Biden was the wrong choice for VP

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I feel incredibly insulted. And I think she insulted anyone who supports Obama or is leaning that way. Perhaps she's angry over the past few days, but I have no idea who she tried to appeal to.

by RandyMI 2008-09-03 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

And I think she insulted anyone who supports Obama or is leaning that way.

...which I think is because they have made a conscious decision that "anyone who supports Obama or is leaning that way" can be written-off.  They figure that such a group doesn't equal Rove's mythical "50% + 1" bloc, and have therefore decided to make sure everyone who doesn't already fit that group will be so turned-off by Obama that they'll rush to pull the lever for McCain/Palin in November.  

Will it work?  Who knows?  But they have reverted to the standard Republican frame:  "Our opponent will a) raise your taxes and b) leave us defenseless."  Over the past quarter-century, they have learned that that mantra is enough to turn off the average American voter's thought process and reflexively swing them into the Republican camp.  Time will only tell whether such an approach can work in a world where the Republican president, the very exemplar of their  approach, can only draw a 28% approval rating.  The bad news:  if it works this year, it will likely work anytime.  :-(

by JDWalley 2008-09-03 10:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

She certainly preached to the choir....

Was a very nice speech, but only offered semi-specifics about energy, nothing else, not even about the economy.

And the notion that the only way you can fight for Americans is through the military is very offensive.  People that work for charities, churches, nurses, police officers, even soup kitchen volunteers should be extremely offended.

by neko608 2008-09-03 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I think you raise a strong point that Obama could counter with.

But being offended isn't the way to answer.  Thats what they want.

They want a liberal vs not liberal contest.

They win that contest hands down.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Palin gave them alot of red meat, and has certainly energized the base.

The base, however, will be deflated in the next few weeks as middle America learns more about Sarah Palin, and continues to break for Obama.

I really think that McCain's numbers will be in the shitter some time before Halloween.

by dannybauder 2008-09-03 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I thought she put on a polished performance (but wouldn't you expect that from a former pageant queen and sportscaster), but she was really angry and disgusting.

by blueAZ 2008-09-03 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Great speaker?

She was just another run of the mill mean spirited attack dog.

She can read the telemprompter without fucking up but her nasal delivery and mundane delivery was putting me to sleep. It was the readmeat that saved her speech but other than appealing to the extreme right I don't see what she did here.


by spacemanspiff 2008-09-03 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Ha ha, community organizers are so funny. Fuck the poor!

Goes to show you how out of touch the republicans are. They don't even grasp the concept of leading community drives in low-income neighborhoods to save jobs or fight for better schools.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I think you're onto something there.  Makes me wonder how many people in that hall know what community organizing is, much less its goals.

by fogiv 2008-09-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

But make it a Church organizer and your doing God's work.

If only Barack had been in the PTA he could have had 'executive experience'.


by recusancy 2008-09-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Obama actually worked with Churches. As do I (I am an organizer as well). And frankly, if I have not responsibilities, why did I just work a 14 hour day?

by Yelnats 2008-09-03 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Because you enjoy the ridicule of politicians?

Seriously, thank you for your work.  We deserve better than someone making fun of those who try to make the world a better place.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-09-03 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

And there were definately some points were she started to look overwhelmed.  If she's ready for this campaign, it's a just bairly kind of thing.

by Nameless Soldier 2008-09-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I think the lack of being prepared is actually her strength.

She is a train wreck but likable and reminds everyone of good people.

She makes Obama look unready by virtue of having vaguely similar resumes.  And Obama runs with an I am smarter than you vibe.

People who have not yet made a decision will be nearly equally drawn to her approach and Obama's.

Obama would win if that was the end of it.

But the nature of her candidacy is that its not the end of it.

If she grows from the current position its news.
If she gets a zinger on Biden its news.

If she continues to act as a lightening rod gathering press indignation and collecting it into balls to throw at Obama it may work.

This isn't kids stuff at all.  Its a serious campaign from a serious team that are 2-3 percent away from beating us.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Actually I think she is the first to give a speech without a telepromter.

by Classical Liberal 2008-09-03 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

You would be wrong.

by Jordache 2008-09-03 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

didn't you see the prompter?  CNN had it in the shot several times.

by snowback 2008-09-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

What is with that I have never seen the text view of a teleprompter in a speech before...

Have you?

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I was watching MSNBC

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

You should pay more attention then... it was pretty obvious.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Not only did she use a teleprompter...but the transcript of her speech (which was put up on the teleprompter) had words spelled phonetically (i.e. "new-clear") for her benefit!

by JDWalley 2008-09-03 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Ignore Classless Republic...

He/She has been spending the last 3 days polishing Sarah Palin's backside.

Don't they have a curfew when the let you newbie trolls away from NoQuarters?

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-03 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

lol - I wouldn't say I was polishing her back side.  I have been saying don't underestimate this woman and fall for the rope a dope.  

We will have to see it drove up ratings at all, but it couldn't have hurt.  Now she looks like Erin Brockovich or something.

She was vetted and the rejection was projected - end of story.  Now will she be accepted.

by Classical Liberal 2008-09-03 10:19PM | 0 recs
A song for Sarah Palin and her Wing

... and John McCain too.


by versusplus 2008-09-03 07:19PM | 0 recs
Anger is all that they have as weapons...

...because their policies are not viable.

by doss 2008-09-03 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Anger is all that they have as weapons...

prove that to voters and win

prove it merely to yourself and lose.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Did they just play "pass the baby"?  Holy crap!

by ktmnyny 2008-09-03 07:19PM | 0 recs
Yes ...

Yes they did!

by Airpower 2008-09-03 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Were we watching the same speech? My wife was gagging, and the blogs I've been reading are running about 4 pro and bazillions against!

by Bob Miller 2008-09-03 07:20PM | 0 recs
The Question Is

Is the media acting super impressed and/or intimidated.  Will her stupid speech be enough to stop the media feeding frenzy and get them to just shut up.  If so, she succeeded.  If not, she and McCain are dead moose.

by kaleidescope 2008-09-03 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

She is shrewd, and did well. The base will lick it up.

But calling it a "Grand Slam"? (wolf blitzer)

Maybe if in a T-Ball league.

Now Wolf is calling it historic?  It was brutal and did not speak to kitchen table issues at all, did not speak to regular americans at all: she spoke to angry afraid republicans and only for a little while longer will they have their moment...

by Iago 2008-09-03 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

What does it mean when the pundits keep calling Palin "tough"? She was reading someone else's speech. What exactly is "tough" about that? They expected her to maybe NOT read from the teleprompter because the language was too strong?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Palin doesn't shit her pants on stage, sounds angry, and so she is tough.

It's the one benefit female candidates have over male candidates in politics.  

by Eric11 2008-09-03 07:35PM | 0 recs
Wolf finally can cheer for his team...

He has been in a total funk since Obama's speech, if anyone noticed, he was about the only pundit that didn't rave at it.

He can finally cheer for his neocon pals....

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-03 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

CNN is trying to kiss ass because their interview was over the line and they can't afford a McCain boycott.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread
I am disgusted. Really, really, disgusted.
I have never been so angry at the Republicans, not even in 2004.
by JDF 2008-09-03 07:21PM | 0 recs

That speech was soooo much better then Barack Obama's speech! Yes!


ok... I am lieing. :)

by kevin22262 2008-09-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
Post-Palin Anger Management Thread

Pit bull with lipstick is pretty close.

by mboehm 2008-09-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
That is an insult to Pit Bulls...

I had a Pit Amstaff actually.

It was the sweetest dog I ever owned.

Look, this women read a speech written by someone else, with probably ZERO input from her, in front of the friendlest audience possible.

And Wolf is knocked out?  

Gosh, I am shocked at his depth, since he has been SOOOOO right on politics for years.

Look, I predicted they would fawn over her, they have been since they nominated her.

Pretty and she can read from the teleprompter!

Yeah, lets hand her the Nuclear football, I'm down with that.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-03 08:53PM | 0 recs
That darn media

That talk about the media was just more ridiculous talking points from the McCain campaign.  How dare the media come out of their eight year stupor and ask republicans actual, you know, questions?

by Nameless Soldier 2008-09-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
Didn't watch this crap

Burning a kickass cd to listen to on the drive to work tomorrow.

The arrangement of songs is absolutely crucial.  You gotta have some peppy upbeat songs at the beginning in case you get to the office before the ones at the end get heard.

Also, you need to have a couple acoustic wind-down ones at the end so you can chill on the ride home.

by Sam Loomis 2008-09-03 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Didn't watch this crap

As my friend put it, "you have to start off with a good dose of cocaine before you move onto the heroin."

by Jordache 2008-09-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

This is typical GOP Democrats-as-traitors stuff that has won them so many elections in the last 40 years.  If they win with this, what the hell, the country probably deserves them.

by mady 2008-09-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
I'll move, I guess

I don't mean to make a solid, angry statement, but I'm just not sure I'd want to stay in the country if they win again.  I'd almost rather go back to Iraq.

by Nameless Soldier 2008-09-03 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Where is the talk about understanding the needs of the working mother, the guy in Scranton who's lost his health insurance, the workers in Cleveland who just got told the plant is shutting down, the millions of everyday Americans who are one missed paycheck or one illness away from losing their homes?

"This election is not about me.  It's about you."

by GreginFL 2008-09-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Very close to my thoughts.

I was kinda bored after the first five minutes but notced that the one word that she focused on more than any other was "I".  

"I" am this, "I" am that.  "I" did this.  "I: did that.  

My mind kinda "tuned out" at that point.

by Airpower 2008-09-03 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Lets hope the MSM does not cave and ignore the fact that she is just another corrupt Republican politician...

by neko608 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

i think the speech will keep her on the ticket, but i don't think she converted any undecideds.  On a gut level, i honestly thought Biden's personal story was a lot more moving, and i think more american's can relate to his story.  America is going through a lot right now, and i felt like the democrats reached out and let the people know they are listening.  Republican's will love this speech, but what else did it offer?

by asdf 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Sarah Palin was basically introducing herself to America tonight, I'm not sure being quite so mean-spirited will endear her to voters meeting her for the first time.

But who knows?  I'm incredibly biased.  I guess polls will tell us in the next few days.

by Will Graham 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I expected better from her.  It was just adequate.  I do think that the Democratic ticket should focus more on middle America and their concerns.  Adopt some Bill Clinton's empathy.

by MDMan 2008-09-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
She gave the speech they wanted

but is that Karl Rove being critical of it (or just someone who looks like Rove)?

Lots of fire and brimstone, the best thing that monochromatic room has heard all week, but she left open various contradictions (Was that for or Against the Bridge to Nowhere, and in which order again?).

The difference in conventions will come as it ends.  John McCain has to wrap this thing up and send the crowds streaming angrily into the streets, not something he has been excelling at...

by chrisblask 2008-09-03 07:25PM | 0 recs
Does the beauty queen

think lying from her teeth won't get called out especially now that she has taunted the press?

This has to be the best VP pick Obama could have hoped for, Gibbs was just gleaming this week and I don't blame him.

Putin is shaking in his boots over the PTA mayor, she even got my republican aunt to switch over to Obama.

by hocuspocus 2008-09-03 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Does the beauty queen

Not that I disagree with your overall point, though the PTA point is a bit snide.  But I would say that GOPers have been lying through their teeth for years and attacking the "liberal media" when they get called on it and the media, taken as a whole, has responded with "thank you sir, may I have another".

Blitzer is the poster child.  McCain stiffarms his outfit for daring to be journalists and now he can't  heap enough praise on this liar from the north.

Thank Al Gore for the internets; we will need them.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-09-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
CNN: A Star is Born

Unfortunately, I think they are right. Republicans have better intuition than Democrats on how to be persuasive. Democrats are better at governing, but unfortunately, Republicans are better at campaigning. Even though I disagree with everything that Palin said, I thought her speech was better than Obama's acceptance speech. She was very persuasive.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

You are out of your fucking mind.  Obama is one of the greatest orators this country has ever seen.  Palin couldn't hold a candle to Bush 41, much less Clinton, Reagan or Obama.   That speech was terrible, her delivery sucked and we have seen the end of the McCain campaign tonight.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

You are spot on, but that diarist gave me a great laugh

by hocuspocus 2008-09-03 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

Troll rate me if you want... Your comment is an insult to every Democrat and to Barack Obama himself and was a very trollish comment.   Not to mention the fact, ITS TOTAL BULLSHIT!  Your BS comment needed to be called out.  I stand by my statement, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND to say that.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:41PM | 0 recs
Calling Me Names

Now that's being trollish.

To let you know where I stand. I am somewhat of a fan of George Lakoff. I don't agree with everything that he says. But I agree with him that we liberals really don't have the intuition on how to be politically persuasive. We don't understand the importance of symbolism. In my opinion, the polls in the next few days are going to show that Palin was quite persuasive in her speech.

As for Obama's acceptance speech. It was a good speech, but not his best. However, it was a speech that he had to make becuase the general public wasn't sure what Obama meant by change. But again, I just don't think that the part of the speech where he listed the programs that he was for was very effective in persuading independents. The speech was good when he started talking about civil rights and Martin Luther King. The background of the stadium was also a stroke of ingenuity.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

Obama is not one of the greatest orators.

But I will give you he is in the Reagan, Clinton (Bill) league

Palin gave a great speech for a normal person but a sub-par one for a politician.  However it was a long detailed speech and some of those details are like burrs that stuck.

They didn't draw blood but they may be under our saddle for a while.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:55PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

alright I am going to have to call you out here.  So you think Palin's text book Republican attack speech was better than Obama's acceptance speech which was polled as the most positively viewed acceptance speech in 20 years?  You either are a classic crap your pants liberal (I am like that too sometimes so don't feel bad)  or really don't appreciate good oratory.  

Not even sure why I am arguing with you.  

by Xris 2008-09-03 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

Whoa Nelly! Pretty soon you'll be calling another Obama speech the best ever. It was rated best in a decade according to Gallup. But the competition was Bob Dole, George W. Bush, Al Gore and John Kerry. Bill Clinton's 1992 speech and Michael Dukakis's 1988 speech were more effective according to Gallup.

Obama's speech was a great speech, I loved it, but they weren't comparing it to a Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan speech, or to any of the best nominee speeches.

This speech was not for me, but I thought it was quite good for a Republican speech.

by souvarine 2008-09-03 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

First troll rate I've ever used in 5 years. Are you sure you weren't tuned into the Daily Show and watching a Samantha Bee parody? Now that might be viewed as persuasive.

This speech was "look at me, aren't I cute/funny/angry."

by Bob Miller 2008-09-03 07:48PM | 0 recs
Agree with the TR

Better than Obama's speech?  Oh please.

by NM Ward Chair 2008-09-03 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

How you can call that speech better than Obama's is beyond me.

by jsfox 2008-09-03 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN: A Star is Born

In terms of speech delivery Obama was in the top 10% and she was maybe in the top 50% for a politician at the national level.

But in terms of effectiveness she had a 40 min speech with tons of individual attacks and claims some of which won't go away.

For example, she was involved in a 40 billion dollar negociation that hurts claims that she is a phantom weight.

She had several lines that would have drawn blood with solid delivery.

don't underestimate effect based soley on delivery skill.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-03 11:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

She delivered (read from the prompter) fine, but huge chunks of it were utter bullshit lies.

Maybe it's me, but I thought she came off snotty as all get out.  Smirking and smarmy.  Where have I seen that before?

Oh yeah, we've been seeing that for the last 8 years.

by fogiv 2008-09-03 07:28PM | 0 recs
This was a horrible speech

The Republican brand of Bush/Rove was spiteful and hateful towards all of those who did not agree.  That brand is now in the gutter.  Yet, this speech was delivered very much in the form of the Bush/Rove brand.

She was too mean-spirited, too hateful, too crass, too unbecoming and simply too rough.  This was a very bad introduction to the American people.  

by JCPOK 2008-09-03 07:28PM | 0 recs
Sorry this was a drab speech...there was hardly

any emotion in her voice..delivered very flat. Of course there were places where the Republicans cheered as ordered....well organized boorish convention thus far.

by louisprandtl 2008-09-03 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I don't know how you can say this was a good speech.  She is a terrible speaker.  I was praying for my TV to break so I didn't have to hear that terrible accent and horrendous speaking cadence.  She's terrible... nearly as bad as McCain.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
"We're the united party"

That's what Giuliani just said.  The republicans are united?  Hah

by Nameless Soldier 2008-09-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Bush 3

Well, that settles he question of whether they are hoping to run from the Bush/Cheney record. For all her talk about shaking things up in Washington, it is clear that Management has decided that they have to win or lose this with the base as in 2000 and 2004.  I thought she came across as shrill and unlikeable, like the parent everyone hates at the PTA meeting.  She is a good speaker and the base loved it but outside the convention building this will not play with anyone in the middle, let alone Democrats.

by snowback 2008-09-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Sarah who?

No one has answered this question for me yet.

She proved she could deliver a speech, which was likely not of her own creation.  Neither impress me one way or another because much of the applause lines were either insults or piggybacking on the populist platform the Dems have been running.

At the end of the day, she still looks like a homeroom mom to me.  I mean that as no insult to her as a woman, but when I hold her presence up against Hillary's, she does not come across as a states person.

I am just soooooo disgusted with the mingling of extreme religious ideology with political platform I cannot stand it.  Every time I see Sarah, I just see another Rovian-tool used for tweaking the emotions of religious zealots nationwide.

Come on November.  Can't get here quick enough.....

by ILean Left 2008-09-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Sarah Palin = Liar

When the going got tough, she lied through her teeth about pressuring the Alaska Chief of Public Security to fire her ex-brother-in-law.  If she had the toughness that she pretends to have on stage, she would have said, "Damn right I tried to have him fired."  

But, Sarah Palin lies and hides behind lawyers.

We do not need four more years of fake bravado writing checks that will have to be cashed by the American public, soldiers, sailors and marines.

by Ephus 2008-09-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
skip Flick

Just catching Palin's speech now, but please skip the Tracy Flick jibes. That was one of the media's favourite ways of denigrating Clinton, the irritating Tracy Flick. It's just a variation on the cackle criticism, and one of Olberman's more adolescent moments.

by souvarine 2008-09-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Good response from the Obama campaign...  This woman is really George Bush in a hairbun in everything she does and believes in...  there should be little problem tying her to the politics of the last 8 years... she epitomizes them...

I didn't watch... I couldn't bear to see this walking wedge issue try and tear down everything we've built up by pretending to care...

I have no idea how people will view this speech... We'll see in a few days...

I do wonder, though, if the "base" will react as strongly to McCain's speech... or is he just an afterthought?  Has anyone remembered a VP overshadowing the actual candidate so much?  Will she continue to do so?  What does that mean in the end?

It seems that the base is going to vote for Sarah Palin and hope that John McCain dies so he can get out of the way!  How morbid!

Regardless of what happens, the Republicans have a new rising star, and that is going to be a problem for all of us in the future...  Let's hope the scandals will destroy her before that happens...

by LordMike 2008-09-03 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

A is bush
B is bush

GOP is bush

Any milage from that line is probably tapped out.

Focus on issues do the hard work and win.

If you focus on it will be easy if we call everyone bush there is a real chance to lose.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:02AM | 0 recs
Krauthammer, who said an hour

before the VP announcement that she would be a fatal pick, thinks she did a great job.

"The problem is that her lack of history on national security undermines the entire Republican argument about Obama being unprepared, and there is no way to cure it."

by chrisblask 2008-09-03 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I have to agree that unless the mood of this country is somehow different to what I think it is this speech, while effectively crafted and delivered, is not going to move the needle nationally. Way too angry and caustic and far too little about how this team would help the middle class. And how galling for her to say that John McCain doesn't run with lobbyists--his entire campaign hierarchy is populated with them.

I gotta believe that this speech is going to turn off more than it brings in.

by wasder 2008-09-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
The usual nasty stuff...

I don't know if this crap will fly in economic times as bad as these.  Usually it does.  Usually scare the people tactics, bullying, and right wing visionary moments do it for the GOP.  I'm not sure they will this year, hopefully not.  Hopefully this garbage will just seem kind of irrelevant to what people's lives are like.

by mady 2008-09-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
Tremendously effective speech

I'm still laughing at the dunces on DU who were mocking her during the speech, insisting it was a flop. I kept insisting they were going to be shocked at the post-speech reaction. Indeed, they are.

And I still have no idea how we took her lightly. That's why I watch all the debates on CSPAN every cycle, so I'm familiar with the so-called lesser candidates.

Tonight she started out nervous and rushed. She really relaxed and hit a stride when she introduced her family, and that confidence carried over to at least the next 20 minutes. Then the speech writer sabotaged her in the final 4 or 5 minutes. That was comical. You could almost pinpoint the area where the speech wasn't her style and she wasn't comfortable delivering it. She lowered her voice and lost the proper placing of emphasis.

It's a massive, massive advantage to have the second convention. That's what I take from tonight, and no doubt tomorrow.

The GOP convention was very weak until Giuliani and Palin. Romney's speech was horrible, some type of liberal/conservative time warp, then Huckabee's was cutesy crap that may have flattered him but didn't accomplish anything.

Like I posted the other day, polls taken between conventions are meaningless.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-09-03 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Tremendously effective speech

You get your John McCain point for the day.

by RandyMI 2008-09-03 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Tremendously effective speech

LOL. Nice whiff. There's no need to pretend you won every scrimmage or that the opposition fumbled every snap. That's what posters on progressive blogs don't seem to grasp, and it's hysterical.

It's also why I appreciate balanced analysts and not the jokes like Olbermann and Maddow. In fact, I heard that Olbermann even tried to cut off Palin at one point tonight, before her speech was finished.

This is an open race, not a second term midterm like 2006. We have situational advantage based on Bush's ineptitude but I'm not going to be dense enough to pretend it's 90/10 edge instead of 60/40. That's probably your blindfolded game.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-09-03 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Tremendously effective speech

I forgot to mention, I'll be interested in the reaction from my 65 year old aunt. I commented earlier today on MyDD that she's an apolitical type who supported Hillary enthusiastically, then had moved to Obama but apparently not rock solid. Today she was eager to watch Palin.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-09-03 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Tremendously effective speech

I think you're wrong, and here's why. Anyone who was impressed by negative attacks on Obama was swayed a long time ago. And McCain had a lock on his party's vote. But the evidence appears to be to the contrary. That she was pushing away voters who didn't think she was ready to be President. Those voters tuned in tonight, and she did NOT MAKE THAT CASE. Disaster.

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

The only really bad speaker in a mjor party I have seen is McCain.  She did "fine".  BFD

by scytherius 2008-09-03 07:36PM | 0 recs

She's angry, Rudy's angry, Mittens is angry and at what?  they've had the Whitehouse for eight years and the congress for six of those.   They've been making the rules and calling the plays almost unfettered.  What in the sam hill are they angry about?

Because Democrats have the audacity to campaign against them?

The whole evening seemed unusually mean spirited, even for a GOP convention.  No rousing presentations on the military or framing of the realities of avergae Americans, just a bunch of dogs chewing on fake bones.

The point is, I'm not sure how well any of that would play to the audience of middle of the road Americans.  They aren't looking for jingism and "Family Values" right now -- they're looking for solutions.

Seriously, if you weren't in that hall or dead in the heart of a red state, was any of that directed at you?

by GRO 2008-09-03 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

My thoughts:

1. That was a hell of a speech. Forget the content for a second: it truly excelled in terms of her presentation.

2. Don't be surprised to hear that the GOP raised $1-2 million overnight because of this speech.

2. There was a slight excess of edge and anger. If the Obama campaign is smart, they will use this as an opportunity to help define Palin as mean, heartless, and cold.

3. She's sticking with that utterly silly line about the "bridge to nowhere" -- she needs to be held accountable for that.

5. She's a serious talent. Don't underestimate her. I think Biden will be more than fine in the debates, but she'll be a net-plus for McCain over the next 60+ days.

by blueflorida 2008-09-03 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

apologies for the screwed up numbering.

by blueflorida 2008-09-03 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I saw a woman with the public speaking skills of a 5th grader.  A for firing up the crowd, F for speaking ability, F- for content.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Maybe so. Critiquing it, I could tell that she was still getting the hang of it. And I think that there may have been too much edge and anger in her tone to really appeal to moderates.

But the right-wingers feel about her right now the way you may have felt about Obama on the night of July 27, 2004.

by blueflorida 2008-09-03 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I would give B for firing up the crowd, B- for speaking ability B+ for content.

But factor in it was 40 minutes of content

In that 40 min she hammered several "wedges" that hurt

executive exp
drill all of the above energy
bittergate vs hockey mom
Motivation with career for change or change for career.
Talked up the armed services

I bet you Obama central will be working on combating these wedges in the very near future.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:10AM | 0 recs
Hockey Moms

The "hockey moms" coda took blacks, Latinos, and everyone but "middle America" right out of the political equation.

The Republicans picked Palin because they can make her into anyone that want her to be.

Divisive as President Bush in 2000 and 2004: check.

All the hope just got sucked right out the room, folks!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-09-03 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Hockey Moms

Please... She sucked and will continue to suck.   She tries to run in 4 against Obama and she'll be taken out easily.  She tries to run in 8 against Hillary and it will be a brutal, brutal ass kicking by Hillary.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Hockey Moms

Did you ever see Reagan debate?

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Good speech for the base.  However, honestly now what?  We still have job losses, we still have a wrong track at 80%.  Nothing has changed.

by nzubechukwu 2008-09-03 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

' she's smart and likeable and funny... But why did McCain choose her?'

To balance the ticket?

by ObamaBiden 2008-09-03 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

 I think he might have been impressed with the fact that she doesn't slather on the makeup like a trollop.

by QTG 2008-09-03 08:38PM | 0 recs
the bar was set really low
and unless she went and stammered and blew it off it was meant to be decent. She is a decent public speaker. However the overarching tone was one of mocking condescension, bitterness and anger. It seems her speech was one large attack stump and one would have to really examine it with a microscope to find any policy. Drill, drill, drill, attack, attack, attack. Like I said before she is all too willing to play down and dirty and McCain is hypocritical and angry old man.
Time for MyDD to step up the attack as well.
On a completely unrelated note is it just me or has someone else noticed that McCain seems incredibly uncomfortable around her and does not even look her in the eye?
by tarheel74 2008-09-03 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: the bar was set really low

I think he wants to nail her.  She is attractive, I will give her that.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Lousy Speech

Speech to Nowhere...

by markieparkie 2008-09-03 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Lousy Speech


by yitbos96bb 2008-09-03 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I smell trouble, though my instincts have often been wrong.

Hockey Mom/Pit Bill will be the take away, not the lustful hating.  

I'll be interested to see how many actually watched this speech because unless a viewer saw the negativity and hating, the impact of the speech and performance will be positive for the GOPers as filtered through media clips and coverage.

Think Blitzer.  McCain just stiffarmed his organization for practicing journalism and he already is beside himself with praise for the speech.

The environment is too favorable for me to get all nervous nellie, but this thing will be close and when all is said and done, unless the scandals undermine Palin, she will be a net positive to the McCain campaign.  And the impact of the scandals are not yet clear to me if the GOPers are successful in their efforts to roll them all up into "attacking the family".  

She'll be tough, not scary, for those independents and moderates who hear and see "Hockey Mom" while she helps to significantly increase right-winger enthusiasm.  Then McCain will ramp up his maverickyness to go after the indies the ticket needs while she rallies the support on the home turf.

"If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat."

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-09-03 07:52PM | 0 recs
This Speech Was a Huge tactical Mistake!

The Republican brand of Bush/Rove was spiteful and hateful towards all of those who did not agree.  That brand is now in the gutter.  Yet, this speech was delivered very much in the form of the Bush/Rove brand.

She was too mean-spirited, too vicious, too hateful, too crass, too unbecoming and simply too rough.  This was a very bad introduction to the American people.  

by JCPOK 2008-09-03 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: This Speech Was a Huge tactical Mistake!

There was definitely a sharp edge and a thinly-veiled snarl to her rhetoric. I could easily see it backfiring with moderates and independents. The problem: there was also a lot of charisma. That matters, too.

by blueflorida 2008-09-03 08:09PM | 0 recs
Now Biden can attack!

Before, Biden would have come off as being a mean old chauvinist man against that brave little Christian girl Sarah but now...?

People will expect them to tear each other to pieces in a Twilight of the Gods battle while wearing big giant smiles the entire time.

Biden now has license to take the gloves off!

by MNPundit 2008-09-03 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Here's a word cloud of Palin's speech for anyone that's interested.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-03 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread
Spoke with my mother just after the speech. She's dead in what SHOULD be the Palin-zone. Southerner, 60-ish, likes McCain pretty well, likes Obama a LITTLE bit more and is planning on voting for him. Voted for Bush twice (but doesn't like him anymore), HATES both Clintons (says she can't trust either of them for a second, though she will admit that Bill was a good president.)
Her reaction on Palin: I don't like her. She's too sarcastic and just mean. She just seems like a nasty person. I don't think she's someone I'd want to have dinner with, much less as VP.
by EvilAsh 2008-09-03 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

This is my take from talking to the Republican leaning women friends that I have.  These are women that did not like Hillary at all. They do not like Palin either.   I have no doubt that Palin plays well to Conservative White men who listen to Rush and Hannity and Boortz all day.  I would agree that she knocks it out of the park for them.

I have a feeling that she is going to push a lot of fence sitting women over to the Obama camp this year.  I think she is going to do exactly the opposite of what she was intended to do.  Pawlenty probably could have won over a lot of those women to go back to McCain.  I have a feeling we are going to see a larger gender gap this year than ever before.

by gavoter 2008-09-04 05:53AM | 0 recs
Re: The GOP is Disgusting

Palin is a nut.  Her family needs her and yet her personal ambition is more important.  That speech was IGNORANT at best.  Hate, and almost a out-of-touch sense of reality when looking at the current state of affairs.

by nzubechukwu 2008-09-03 08:26PM | 0 recs
Let's Hear from Hillary

The reality is that if Hillary Clinton had been the Democratic nominee nobody would have ever heard of Sarah Palin and Republicans would still be attacking her as a woman.  Nobody should be surprised that she can read from a teleprompter, but what did she say about policy and her view of where she would like to take our country?

Sarah Palin is now fair game. Let's attack with the facts and maybe we need to take a lesson from Adlai Stevenson, Democrats will continue to tell the truth and point out Republican lies.

by NM Ray 2008-09-03 08:26PM | 0 recs
The problem with the speech

is that no one was blown away, or even seriously impressed.

Watch the cadence of the speech: Attack. Pause. Applause. Attack. Pause. Applause. Attack. Pause. Applause. The audience was carrying her, she never (except for some of the biography) carried them. Remember, that's her base.

Even Rudy inadvertently downgraded it. To paraphrase him "She did a great job....considering blah blah blah". Watch the pundits. Even while they say it was a grand slam, they say it in a very clinical manner. They lack the mildly stunned loss for words that a good Obama delivery imparts.

I sincerely doubt she moved the needle across America.

by Neef 2008-09-03 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: The problem with the speech

Not clear.

You are 100% on delivery.

But she got a lot of message into that speech.

And Obama is not winning message currently.

Obama needs to give a message speech with details maybe 5 message speeches with details.

And he needs to stake out positions that win.

No drill vs all of the above doesn't win as framed.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Move the needle or not, it made clear where the next 60 days are going to be played out.  Obama and team need to slap this back hard, fast and unrelenting.

by bms 2008-09-03 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Obama is on O'Reilly tomorrow night. If he's gonna do it, that'll be the place.

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Wow. Guiliani delivers the keynote and tears into Obama. Mark Warner delivers the keynote and plays nice. Once again, we show our lack of spine. When are we Democrats going to learn that we have to attack hard and attack every day to beat the Republicans?

by Steve24 2008-09-03 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

The country is moving right as the effects of GOP 5 child families and Dem 2 child families plays out.

If you don't position the platform with this in mind you end up with a platform you cannot hold up in public and fight for if you want to win.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

America is just ridiculous. She read a speech and the wacko right has an orgasm.  Unreal.

by scytherius 2008-09-03 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Obama reads speeches too....

His delivery is much much better but he reads them.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:20AM | 0 recs
go to Lincoln

as most Americans know, Abraham Lincoln once famously said that a house divided against itself cannot stand.  This is exactly what Palin and the Republicans were doing tonight.  Through misrepresentation, sarcasm and downright nastiness, how do they expect to govern?  Do they really expect Democrats who have been called unpatriotic, cowardly, elitist and now sexist to simply play nice after this is over?  The Republicans need to figure out that running the country is more important than the election to get there.

by Dont tread on me 2008-09-03 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

Giuliani and Palin reminded me why I hate Republicans so much.  Petty and vile, they have nothing to offer the country but bad one-liners.

I think McCain will get a moderate bump in the polls, but I don't think Palin is a valuable asset in the long-term.  She's not going to go before the media often, and her scandals will follow.

by rfahey22 2008-09-03 08:54PM | 0 recs
Decent speaking... problem speech

I'd give her speech technically about a B or so. Decent political speech, only mangled her words a few times, managed to sound like she knew who the countries and leaders she talked about were (mostly; it was shaky in a few places, to me anyway). Personal stuff was ok... but not much better than ok, which is surprising.

But there were two big problems with the speech. First: negative. Negative, negative, negative. This is in theory her introduction to the country. The country just found out that she's very negative. I'm willing to bet that among the conservative base she'll have good approval ratings -- she was negative about the things they're negative about -- but outside of them, I suspect she did some serious damage to them, among people who heard the speech.

Second: entirely too fact-check-able. She repeated the Bridge To Nowhere lie. If there weren't actual photos of her wearing a shirt in favor of it, she might maybe make that fly. But in this case, I think that's a non-starter. She claimed a lot of reformer cred that she just doesn't have, after the past few days. If she could've given that speech four days ago, it might've made the attacks look petty. As it is, I think it may make her look like a liar.

Combine that with the attacks on Obama, most of which just plain aren't true, and toss in that 25% of the nation tuned into Obama's speech and according to some polls nearly 70% of voters have seen it either live or via DVR/YouTube/whatever -- so that people know they're not true -- and it really doubles down on the untruthful hit.

She also tied reform and change to McCain, which would be a good thing for them, if Obama hadn't already done a pretty solid job of framing this as McCain = Bush, with Bush's active assistance yesterday. I'm not sure that the base wants to hear that McCain represents a great change from Bush, and I'm not sure that independents are really buying it.

She did a good job delivering a mediocre speech in a bad situation. Points for effort, and yes I think it'll move some voters. Both ways.

Last point: there's a minefield left being, and I'll be really curious to see if the press makes that point or not. A lot will depend on whether McCain has pissed off the rest of the media as much as he's clearly pissed off Time. The minefield is that, now that she's rattled off some foreign countries, leaders, and positions, she's going to be asked questions about them -- if the media get to. If they don't, the obvious question the media needs to ask, right away, is: why won't she take our questions? What I'm hoping for is to see that built into coverage of the speech. I'll be happy enough with a headline saying "Palin Delivers Stirring Speech" if the immediate subtext is "now she needs to do press conferences and town halls and get asked unscripted questions".

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-03 09:03PM | 0 recs
Nixon's Checkers Speech

In many ways this was like Nixon's Checker's speech. In 1952, scandal almost caused Ike to drop Nixon from the GOP ticket. But becuase Nixon talked about his dog, he unfortunately laid his scandals to rest and 24 years later he had to resign as President because of Watergate.

Palin also talked about drilling - and earlier during the Guliani speech the crowd chanted "Drill Baby Drill, Drill Baby Drill..." We must not let the Republicans win on the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge drilling issue. They are winning that debate.

What we've got to understand is that the Republicans are using the drilling debate to defeat environmentalism. If you read Jerome's and Markos's book, Republicans use issues for multiple purposes. The purpose of their drilling stand is to scare people into voting for them and to defeat environmentalism.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 09:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Nixon's Checkers Speech

This can be pivoted. One way (likely a pretty good way) is for Obama to support the Gang of 10's proposal. Another is to parlay drilling against using the existing unexploited oil leases (actually, Gang of 10 does that too).

The strongest way to pivot this, for me, is to take the Republican premise ("it's OUR oil, we should drill for it HERE and to heck with those foreigners") and pivot to "it's OUR oil, WE should reap the rewards, not the evil nasty oil companies" combined with "we're too dependent on oil, WE should use the money we make from OUR oil to start breaking the dependency".

In short -- I think drilling is a loser issue for us. Sorry. I also think drilling is boneheaded. The way around that is to co-opt drilling, put it in a framework where drilling needs to be "responsible" and "conserve our environment" and "serve America, not the oil companies", put it in a package of other reasonable energy alternatives, and force the Republicans to either go along with windfall profits taxes, higher efficiency standards, more investment in alternative energy, or vote against the very drilling they say they want.

And then Obama looks like the real energy hero and the Republicans at best get a tie (with the country benefiting), or lose and look like the best friends of big oil in the process.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-03 09:30PM | 0 recs

Prior to this year, the majority of Americans were against drilling in the wild life refuge. But the Republicans kept attacking and attacking, and when oil went above $4.00 per gallon, the Republicans began winning the debate. The Democrats were too scared to fight back. That's why I'm less optimistic than most people on this site and why I keep getting troll rated. Well, may be political blogging is just not my thing.

by Zzyzzy 2008-09-03 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Nixon's Checkers Speech

Let ANWAR go.

Specify a maximum area of impact and tie in a TRUCKLOAD of green energy provisions and let the GOP balk.

We will not win ANWAR.

But if you only give them say 20 square miles you don't lose much.

If you get Billions in solar and wind in return you win the war even if the battle isn't what you expected.

I tell you the GOP will win this election on ANWAR alone if we let them.

by dtaylor2 2008-09-04 12:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Palin Speech Thread

I think the AP offered at one impartial article on the Palin speech.

I found the article at The News Observer: 205394.html

by Pottery 2008-09-04 12:06AM | 0 recs
She lost me when she started lying

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.  But when she once again said "I told Congress, 'thanks, but no thanks' on the Bridge to Nowhere" she lost me.

The press has spent the last four days showing that she supported that bridge before she unsupported it.  And she kept the money that Congress had earmarked for the bridge anyway.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to realize that when you've been caught in a boldfaced lie, that you shouldn't repeat it again in your acceptance speech.

Bottom line...this woman scares the shit out of me.  God help us if she gets anywhere near the Oval Office.

by ccsuwxman 2008-09-04 04:12AM | 0 recs


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