Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founder... Two Weeks Ago

I have already noted the reason why many Jewish voters are already particularly skeptical about John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin to be his running mate. Over at The Politico, Ben Smith has much, much more. First, the lede:

Barack Obama has struggled for 18 months to lock down the support of a traditionally Democratic group, Jewish voters.

In the past week, John McCain may have helped Obama with his Jewish problem by choosing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Here's one of the more remarkable facts borne out in Smith's reporting:

An illustration of that gap came just two weeks ago, when Palin's church, the Wasilla Bible Church, gave its pulpit over to a figure viewed with deep hostility by many Jewish organizations: David Brickner, the founder of Jews for Jesus.

Palin's pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church's website.

"He's a leader of Jews for Jesus, a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism," Kroon said.

[...]

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner's views to her.

To put it lightly, the actions of Jews for Jesus -- trying to use deceptive measures to convert members of the Jewish faith to Evangelical Christianity -- are not well received within the Jewish community in America. The fact, then, that Palin -- who has little to no record on issues regarding Israel, has never visited the country, and at the least appeared at a rally for Pat Buchanan sporting one of his pins (and perhaps was even supporter of his as well) -- attended an address by the founder of Jews for Jesus just two weeks ago is not likely to endear her well to the Jewish community or particularly help John McCain's efforts to attract Jewish votes this fall.

Tags: Jewish Voters, Jews for Jesus, Sarah Palin (all tags)

Comments

113 Comments

Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

But don't Jew generally vote for Democrats anyway?

by newmexicodem 2008-09-02 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

Most do. But about 25-30% vote Republican, depending on the year. In Florida they make a difference.

by elrod 2008-09-02 06:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Jewish voters go 80%+ Democratic during presidential years in Florida, they are almost as reliable Democrats as African Americans. And obviously not a large enough group of voters combined to win Florida for Democrats.

I don't have a problem with going after Palin for these kinds of associations, but then I thought it was legitimate to discuss Rev. Wright in the primary. We have an embarrassment of riches on Palin, in a few weeks we should know which ones Obama can weave into an indictment of the Republican ticket, and which ones were traps.

by souvarine 2008-09-02 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Reverend Wright is wrong but honest about it.

J4J join synagogues, claim to be Jewish, start organizations at colleges that claim to be "Jewish" and then try to suck in kids and other "weak" people once they become established in the community.  Wright is a legitimate pastor who I fundamentally disagree with, J4J is a cult, and among the Jewish community, seen as both a cult and a cancer.

by auronrenouille 2008-09-02 09:38PM | 0 recs
Jews are appalled by Palin

I've noticed how my mother has responded to Palin: horror. I guarantee you those wavering Jewish voters in Florida are in Obama's corner after Palin.

When you peel off the onion layers you get somebody in Palin who resembles a lot of real anti-Semitic nutjobs. The conspiracy idiots in the AIP are another tipoff. This reminds me of Helen Chenoweth, former Idaho Congresswoman sympathetic to the militia movement. Jews find those sorts of people terrifying.

I'm not saying Palin is anti-Semitic at all. But I'm saying that she sends a very bad vibe to Jews.

by elrod 2008-09-02 06:36PM | 0 recs
I've said it once, I'll say it many, many times

Doesn't matter one whit if Palin DOES get them CO and NM if they lose FL. And I don't think she will

Will be interested to see ratings for this convention tonight.

by vcalzone 2008-09-02 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I've said it once...

I don't think Palin gets them much at all in CO and NM. I know, I know, exurban identity voters etc etc.

To which I respond: lots and lots of pissed-off Mormon Romney voters staying home. Lots and lots of pissed-off moderates staying home or reconsidering Obama.

And the real deal in both states is the Hispanic vote, not the exurban vote. Palin does absolutely nothing for the Hispanic vote.

I could see Palin moving polls in Alaska. Maybe. Depends; her approval rating was getting worse fast before this, she's been re-tied to Ted Stevens, Alaska Republicans are gunning for her even after the VP selection, etc. I'm not sure she even secures McCain Alaska's 3 EV.

I do think she'll pad McCain's margin in the South. She may have finally slammed the last nail in the coffin of my own home state, though I'm going to keep working to change that. But these are red states in the first place.

I'm not sure she going to do much in purple or blue states except make them a little bluer.

I also think Florida's definitely still in play. This certainly doesn't hurt.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-02 08:50PM | 0 recs
Unless they have something more concrete than this

I would give this a pass. I would hate for this to become a reason to revisit Jeremiah Wright.

by wasder 2008-09-02 06:37PM | 0 recs
Uh uh

I don't think you can ever give stuff like this a pass.  It needs to be called out.

by mady 2008-09-02 06:41PM | 0 recs
Go ahead

Get ready to be called a hypocrite, because this makes you one.

by Covin 2008-09-02 07:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Uh uh

I don't disagree with you about that in principle but I really feel that we have to be careful about taking people to task about what was said in their churches. IF she has said things like this, or in any way expressed support for these people that is one thing. But if she just happened to be sitting in the church its a slippery slope.

I say this as a passionate jewish Obama supporter.

by wasder 2008-09-02 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Uh uh

I'm gonna have to agree with you on this.  We have sooooo many other things to talk about with her.

The strongest line of attack that she represents is the hit on McCains judgement.  We need to keep flogging that.
He had 6 months or so to do the job right.  The big long interview they were talking about as their "vetting" happened on wednesday, McCains interview happened on thursday.  

In one of his books McCain stated that he tries to make decisions as fast as possible. They are often mistakes "but he proudly lives with the consequences of those mistakes".  Well here it is in action.  
If he gets elected it just wont be him living with his mistakes any more.

by tired of dynasties 2008-09-03 06:29AM | 0 recs
thank you for your

concern.

by fbihop 2008-09-02 06:52PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

Let me get this straight.

It's not okay to criticize Obama for being in church when Jeremiah Wright was preaching. Alright, I agree with that.

But Palin does the same thing, and she's fair game?

Justify that logically for me. I'm not following.

And I'm not even concerned about Palin--I'm concerned with how hypocritical it makes Democrats look to start pushing this issue.

by Covin 2008-09-02 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

Obama has spoken out very clearly about what his personal positions are on issues related to Wright's beliefs...I am satisfied with his thoughts on this.

I would like to see Sara Palin disassociate herself with this in the same way.  I would take her at her word, but I doubt if she even can see the problem with Jews for Jesus.  

by mady 2008-09-02 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

I also would appreciate her saying something against this group. But I just know that if there is a big push on something like this it will be the green light for the Rethugs to hammer the Wright thing again. Again, I say this as a jewish person and early Obama supporter. I just don't see the value in hammering this compared to the risk.

by wasder 2008-09-02 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

There is no green light for Wright. It's GONNA happen. Stop thinking about what you hope they might not do and realize that they WILL do it.

Meanwhile, apparently she was actually AT this guy's speech when he said that God punished Israel with terrorist attacks for not having true faith in Christ.

by vcalzone 2008-09-02 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

As opposed to Obama, for whom there's overwhelming evidence by this point showing he was NOT at any of the Wright sermons that have been played up.

However, I half-agree -- there's absolutely no reason for Obama or the campaign to play this up. It'll be out there anyway, and the people who it'll affect are going to hear about it.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-02 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

Obama is no longer a member of that church. It may very well be that the Republicans bring up that issue again, but it simply will not have the same impact. Therefore, I see no reason to bring up the Palin charge without knowing about her views toward Jews for Jesus.

Even then, I'm not interested in what she has to say--because we already know. She will denounce the group and recuse herself of any wrongdoing. That will be the end of the story. Anything less would be political suicide for her ticket.

This line of attack goes nowhere except Wright. We don't want to go there. If the Republicans bring it up again--which is not a guarantee--then Obama already has a proven response for it.

But bringing up the Palin charge instantly comes with the baggage of hypocrisy, and we don't want to hand the Republicans that gift.

by Covin 2008-09-03 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

J4J isn't a church; they're a cult.  See my above reply.  Fundamental difference.

by auronrenouille 2008-09-02 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for your

But not a big enough difference for the average voter, who considers Jeremiah Wright's views to be extremist--no matter how common they may among the black population.

by Covin 2008-09-03 08:28AM | 0 recs
Pile it on.

A reason to revisit Jeremiah Wright?

Rest assured the Goops will revist Wright regardless of how kind and generous Democrats are to Insane McCain and Psycho Sarah.

by Alobama 2008-09-02 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Hopefully, this means Florida is in play

Jonathan, what do you expect from someone born in Idaho, raised in Alaska and a member of the AIP?  This thing is the biggest joke. Since McCain decided to not properly vett Palin, the MSM will GLADLY do the job for her.  And just to think Stupid JOE Blow heart Liberman is about to go on stage against his constituency and endorse his buddy.  What are all the Jewish voters in Florida going to think after this news on the "circus show" name Palin comes out.  Man this shit is getting easy like Jerome stated earlier.

by nzubechukwu 2008-09-02 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

More stuff?

Lieberman is starting up. HATE HIM ( CAPLOCKS)!

by spacemanspiff 2008-09-02 06:39PM | 0 recs
My mom's friends...

...weren't coming around to Obama until Palin happened.  Now they're all rallying.

I know how much Jews for Jewish piss me off and I'm not even practicing.  

by thezzyzx 2008-09-02 06:41PM | 0 recs
Jews for Jewish?

I go to a Unitarian Church in Knoxville (yes, that one) but I'm still a "Jew for Jewish."

by elrod 2008-09-02 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Jews for Jewish?

That's twice I made that typo today.

by thezzyzx 2008-09-02 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Jews for Jewish?

Oddly enough, if you flip it, you get "Jesus For Jews", a phrase that can be used to explain why Jews aren't Christians in the first place!

by vcalzone 2008-09-02 11:59PM | 0 recs
my brother and sister in law

never set foot in a synagogue and have never been affiliated in their adult lives, and they HATE Jews for Jesus.

This news has to be spread in the Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida Jewish communities especially.

by desmoinesdem 2008-09-02 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: my brother and sister in law

Wow. This Jews for Jesus group must be really bad.

Worse than Farakhan I guess.  Since Barak can spend a decade in a church that honors and admires Farakhan but that is no big deal.

Palin is in one service with a J4J and it spreads like wildfire!

Tell me, are the J4J as hostile to Jews as the Nation of Islam?

by dMarx 2008-09-03 12:10AM | 0 recs
Re: my brother and sister in law

Talk to any devout Jew.  You'd be surprised at the hatred.

Then again, did any speech at Wright's church say that God had Jews killed for having the nerve to not convert?  This speech did.  Terrorist attacks are God's judgment on Jews.  This Jew finds that a little scary.

by thezzyzx 2008-09-03 03:06AM | 0 recs
I wonder if JoeMentum the Jew was in the

audience, testifying his conversion to the religous right.

by activatedbybush 2008-09-02 06:41PM | 0 recs
Stick Biden and Hillary in Florida

for the next sixty days.  Palin is the absolute wrong VP for Florida.  The seniors who dislike Obama are probably going to dislike Palin as well.  There's now Jewish skepticism on McCain's ticket.  Also, the fact that she knows relatively little about foreign policy should make Cubans skeptical of McCain's ticket given that Cubans usually go for the pubs at higher percentages than other hispanic groups because of their alleged foreign policy prowess.

I predict Florida will now join OH, VA, CO, NH, and NV as pure toss-up states.  The good news is that only one of the five is a Kerry state.

by Blazers Edge 2008-09-02 06:47PM | 0 recs
Jews for Jesus

Jewish Voter here and let me be very clear I find this "religion" completely disgraceful. They are in no way Jewish of all the things that are bendable in a Reformed Jew's life believing in Jesus is not one of them.

They use the name to generate media to help try and get converts.

I don't care what anyone practices - it is their life but twisting my religion for the sake of a few headlines just pisses me off to no end.

by jeremylreed 2008-09-02 06:48PM | 0 recs
Palin truly is a game changer.

Who would have thought that McCain would shore up Obama's experience and his strength with Jewish voters in one fell swoop of a VP pick?  I think Palin is going to be a disaster among Independent moderates as well.

As a side note, I REALLY hope that someone is able to get in touch with that Alaskan librarian and find out exactly what books Palin was trying to get banned for "inappropriate language".  I think it has the potential to be far bigger than the trooper issue.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-02 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin truly is a game changer.

Uprated for HR abuse and a good comment...

by hootie4170 2008-09-02 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin truly is a game changer.

VERY curious about that myself.  Knowing which books she wanted banned could tell a lot about who she really is.

Also, uprated.  I'm guessing SPP's HR was a slip.

by fogiv 2008-09-02 08:31PM | 0 recs
Jewish as well

Though not observant.

Those people freak me the fuck out, for reals.  I do not, I repeat, I do not like them or their approach to actual real Jews.

Leave me the fuck alone.  The evangelicals are bad enough.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-09-02 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Jewish as well

WORD. I have to say my first actual experience with them was when they came to my door. I am use to all the other Religion door knockers running away when they hear or see the Mezuzah on my door they go scurrying away without offering anything (apparently we are not work even attempting to save.

)However this kid just jumps right in hi I am blah blah and we would like to leave you some literature - to which I politely say no thank you we are Jewish and not interested this kid (another one of the sore subjects with me don't send a fricking kid around to spread religion) says

"Oh how perfect we are from Jews From Jesus and think it would be great if you sat down with us."

Again politely said no he and his little friend kept going - at that point my wife red in the face (they really really infuriate her) comes out and manages to scare them with about 3 sentences.

They are lucky she didn't rip the Mezuzah off the door frame and beat them with it...

by jeremylreed 2008-09-02 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Jewish as well

God. That is the most horrible thing I have ever heard. Wait until people find out that Palin once heard a sermon by these people.  It will be over for her. She will be forced to resign in shame.

by dMarx 2008-09-03 12:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Who will be the first to ask JoeMentum when he joined Jews for Jesus?

by bigdem 2008-09-02 06:56PM | 0 recs
Okay, I am a hypocrite

I completely fail to see any difference between this an Rev. Wright.

But that didn't stop me from (somewhat gleefully) spreading this news to several of my Jewish in-laws, and in particular the one who can't quite get past the Obama is a muslim rumor.

This is one case where if the other side isn't going to play fair, I'm not going to worry about being inconsistent in my beliefs either.

by fsm 2008-09-02 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Okay, I am a hypocrite

No you're not. Rev. Wright has been a sledge the GOP has slammed against Obama ever since he came to light. Turnabout is not only fair play, it's absolutely crucial.

The only reason the Nutwing Fundies love Israel is because they want to bring about an Armageddon where they will cheer gleefully as the angry, vengeful notion of "god" they cherry-picked from the Bible casts all the unconverted Jews into Hell.

This is their sole mission. Israel is a means to an end and not an end in itself.

by Spiffarino 2008-09-02 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Jews for jesus offends Jewish people, but the other side is that evangelicals love Israel and back it with donations and political will. So, it's six of one. I fear that McCain isn't very interested in pushing for peace, he doesn't seem to have that on his radar. Even though Barack isn't saying much, I'd think any Democrat would be a better advocate for peace there than Bush, who essentially did nothing.  According to Peace Now the settlements are still being built, and not on Israel's side of the fence.  It's a big problem.

Jews are divided on this one, just as are Israelis.  Although I'd venture to guess there are more outspoken peace activists in Israel than there are here.  It's like immigration, I don't think it's going to help either of them to force them to make a stand, but Sarah's beliefs do indicate that she wouldn't press Israel to make concessions. but then as VP what she thinks may not matter. He didn't pick her for her foreign policy creds, but for her appeal to evangelicals and libertarians, and to try and sucker Barack into making sexist attacks on her.  That's what I think.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Evangelicals don't love Israel, they are using Israel for their own selfish ends... most Jewish voters know that, but Jewish republicans don't care...

If you are an "Israel above all else" voter then you are already voting republican anyways and are not in the equation...

Otherwise the voting is seriously in play...

by LordMike 2008-09-02 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Israelis know that, I'd say they were using back.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Israeli's don't vote in our elections.

The people in AIPAC might be using them back, but there's a difference between them and Uncle Morty.

by Jordache 2008-09-02 11:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Then it's a wash, because if you're not, you're already supporting Democrats.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

You also think, and I quote, it's fun to post at No Quarter". Fun to post at a racist hate site dedicated to electing McSame?????  

by venician 2008-09-02 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

what is your problem. I post my own opinions, and I don't mind disagreeing.  I've not looked there for some time, if they're dedicated to electing McCain, I'm not. I want Barack to win.  what is this stupid hate you keep posting?  You and one or two others seem to not want me here, and I don't ever see you downrated for your hateful remarks to me.  Is this universal, only those who have the approval of venician are allowed?  Get a life.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

I'm not the one posting on hate sites, you are. No Quarter and Alegres Corner are both HATE sites that you post on, and on the front pages of those sites. People have every right to know what and where you post.

by venician 2008-09-03 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Evangelicals LOVE the Jewish state mostly for the role it plays in their bizarre rapture mythology.

I think someone should check if this church believes in the strict rapture myth, that Israel will be destroyed in a blazing holocaust.

I saw one of the Necons, I think Feith or Wolfowitz asked about the Neocon jews strange alliance with a group that wants them in place so they are wipped out completely, he said:

"We are pragmatist. We don't have to agree with their beliefs to want their support."

That, more then the Abortion question, more then the Creationist question, is the one I hope they ask Palin in the debate:

So, do you agree with your churches belief that Israel will soon be destroyed in a firey holocaust?

They won't ask it, of course, but I wish they would.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-02 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

she probably does, I can't imagine that she doesn't. But it won't hurt her, it'll help her galvanize their support, that McCain could never do.  He's already bringing in more money since he named her. So, I hope they don't. anyway I hope they don't ask any belief questions, that stuff has no place in a debate that ought to be about ideas.  I'd rather they ask her what she thinks of the mortgage meltdown, or the war, or any number of things. If this doesn't switch to ideas soon, I don't know what.  That's our strength, these identity things and 'gottcha' stuff, it's depressing, and not relevant.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

I agree to an extent, but "gotcha" politics can be used to highlight our strengths as well.  Talking about Palin wanting to ban books at her local library that she finds offensive can be used to talk about our beliefs in the freedom of speech.  Bringing up her opposition to ANY type of abortion, even in cases of rape and incest, allows us to appeal to the majority of Americans who have varying degrees of support for women to have at least some form of choice.  

Hell... McCain chose a slogan like "Country First" while picking a VP who, at the very least, feels that Alaska NEEDS to have a vote about whether or not to even be part of the US.  He made a huge issue of experience, and then chose someone with less experience than Obama to be second in line for the presidency.  We were told that Palin was picked because she was a "maverick" and went after members of her own party, only to find out that she's got some ethical issues in her past and came out of the same political system that created Ted Stevens.  We'd be absolutely crazy to not jump on these issues.  That being said, we can't rely on gotcha politics to win an election.

As a side note, I respect what you are doing on your other site.  I saw the post about not allowing people to try to persuade people to vote for McCain, and I was very surprised (in a good way).  Kudos!

by thatpurplestuff 2008-09-02 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

we've been consistent.  I hope his campaign reads our posts, and gets an idea of how to win over those who are still way too pissed. There is some very good advice for him there.  

Those are issues, to my mind, not 'gottcha's.'  But they're issues that won't necessarily help (or hurt either).  She attracts people who might have stayed home but would not have voted for Barack.   With one exception, I think he had been attractive to some libertarians, and she's more attractive to them.  He'll also get more donations, evangelical moms are nearly as avid at Hillary supporters, in writing checks and doing phone banks. Until her they had no candidate.  

McCain can't use experience anymore, that's for sure.  I think it's a 'bait' pick too, and some fell into it. That post at kos on her daughter being the mother of her youngest backfired.

The smart thing to do with Sarah is ignore her.  The  more she's attacked, even fairly, the more it will galvanize evangelical moms.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

That is not accurate.

Fundies don't believe that by supporting Israel they are ushering in the apocalypse.  Nor do they believe that Israel will be destroyed and all Jews cast into hell.

Where do you get this stuff?

by dMarx 2008-09-03 12:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Either you have never lived in the Bible Belt, or you haven't been paying attention.  Look up "Hagee."

by Dreorg 2008-09-03 05:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

Bullcrap.  It is 100% accurate.  The only reason that the fundie Christians have such 'admiration' for Israel, is that they believe the Jews need to control Israel for the second coming.  The issue is that you have fools like Lieberman who think they are using the fundies when it is actually the other way around.

It is not to usher in the apocalypse, but it is to help ensure that it happens.   And you are right that all Jews will not go to Hell.  They have the option to convert to Christianity and then they go to Heaven.  And it is not just Israel being destroyed, it is the whole world, remember, it is armageddon.

by gavoter 2008-09-03 05:50AM | 0 recs
Please re-read your troll handbook

Dmarx, I bet it's been a while since you received your Larry Johnson approved Troll Handbook.

Time for a quick refresher.

1. Always start with some lame attempt at pretending to be something you're not with a statement like

"As you all know, I am an Obama supporter now BUT...."

before dropping your turds.

Secondly, stay away from facts. These are dangerouns things and can show you clearly for the moran you are.

Now, back to doing what you have been doing for the last 4 days:Defending Sarah Palin on every post you make.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-03 06:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

The important thing to remember here is that there are multiple strains of Judaism.

Reform Jews are extremely liberal, probably the most politically liberal of all mainstream religions.  They'll vote for Obama in numbers that rival the African-American community.  (For the background, I'm Reform)

Conservative Jews (not to be confused with political conservatism) are a slight majority in the US and have varying degrees of practice and political viewpoint.  Most are Democratic, though they may not buy into everything in the platform.  They are more likely to keep some traditional practice (they may keep varying degrees of kosher or may observe the sabbath).  They can tend towards socially conservative, but nowhere near the fundies.

Orthodox Jews are a minority in the US, and are located largely in the major metro areas, especially in the East (The Acela corridor basically, as well as Florida).  They can be socially very conservative and politically ambivalent.  Joe Lieberman is Orthodox.  Orthodox Jews are the ones you may have to work with to get them to vote Democrat; Orthodox Jews have a strong majority and a controlling hold on Jewish life in Israel.  They're also the ones who will flip a lid if a J4J is within 100 paces.  If Palin is really affiliated with these people, the potential of Lieberman convincing the Orthodox to vote for this ticket is up there with the potential of a kosher pig flying.

by auronrenouille 2008-09-02 09:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

the thing is that all are, it's part of their proselytizing.  It's not special about Sarah.  I think Jewish voters already know that stuff, it's hard not to.  So, I think all in all bringing it up won't get anyone to vote against McCain who already wasn't going to, and can bring up some of the stories about Barack's pastor, or at least make it seem fair to. This is a wily John trap.  I think all of Sarah is a trap, and in that way it's a brilliant choice. it's a backdoor way of 'discussing' Barack's beliefs while avoiding the charge of racism. The press loves this stuff.  The smartest way to deal with her is to ignore her, utterly. Act as if she's irrelevant.  She's McCain's cluster bomb.  

The positive thing he can do is get closer to Hillary.  Start consulting with her and letting everyone know that he is.  Switch to her health care plan.  Tell Bill he knows he isn't a racist, and he admires his administration.  He can change the stories to him and Hillary again.  And he can use her 'solutions,' attribute the investment in green energy plan to her. It was her idea and it's original.  And allude to her speech in New Orleans, ask her to give it again.  She wants to help him, and she would be a major help.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

I think you give McCain too much credit - he doesn't have the resources to set a trap on his main front when he's still trying to keep his rear guard from deserting.

by auronrenouille 2008-09-02 10:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

you thinks he's alone?  Don't underestimate him, he's going to show up at the debates ready to shoot polar bears from a plane.  

by anna shane 2008-09-03 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

McCain does NOT have that kind of cunning. If he did, his campaign wouldn't have had two complete shakedowns on the way to the nomination.

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 12:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus

actually that's exactly the kind of cunning he has.  He wants to attack Barack on rev. wright and his chicago associations but he doesn't want to look negative. So, he'll wait until Barack gives him an opening. Barack (or someone from his campaign) says she's inexperienced, pounce. Says she wasn't properly vetted, pounce. Says she has beliefs that aren't in the mainstream, pounce.  things that he'd ordinarily be called 'racist' for by Barack will be in defense of the 'little lady'.  Don't underestimate John he has many attack ads he's holding for the right time. He hired the swift boat team 8 months or so ago, and they have not been sitting on their hands.  John also has some pithy one-liners he's saving up.  Prepare, and don't fall into traps, that's my advice for Barack (and you).  

by anna shane 2008-09-03 03:32PM | 0 recs
Not quite accurate.

Conservative Jews, in spite of the name, are as overwhelmingly Democratic as the Reform.  On social issues, they tend to be "I personally wouldn't do X, but I'll fight for your right to do it" voters.  The exception is gay marriage, which traditionalist Conservatives (although most of them formed a splinter group that is not affiliated with the Conservative Movement) oppose with a passion.  (And this is just a minor quibble, but Conservative Jews are no longer the largest Jewish group--the Reform passed them a few years back.)

Orthodox Jews are not a unified group, and can be divided into Modern Orthodox, Orthodox, and Chassidim.  Modern Orthodox are majority Democrats, Orthodox are about fifty-fifty, and the Chassidim (commonly known as the "ultra-Orthodox") are overwhelmingly Republican.  It is the Chassidim who control Israel's religious institutions, to the chagrin of the other Orthodox groups as well as the more liberal branches of Judaism.

by Elsinora 2008-09-03 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Not quite accurate.

Yeah I didn't go into that much depth because I figured it'd be information overload, but you're right on all counts.

by auronrenouille 2008-09-03 07:55AM | 0 recs
Cutting Palin off at the Legs

George Lakoff's and DU poster Tygrbright's strategies:

Jews for Jesus is the first giant stink to put on Palin: Communicate to your undecided Jewish friends and family hat she is a risky choice, because she is.

The second meme is her Naked Ambition. She tells bald-faced lies, she fires those who disagree with her, she uses her family as political cover, etc.. etc., etc. She's the SCARY HILLARY the Repubs despise and fear.

It'll take the shine right off of her and quick.

by Spiffarino 2008-09-02 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

she is nothing like Hillary, what are you saying?  HIllary is prepared, she's experienced, we know where she stands on all the issues, she's clear, she's won big elections and she nearly got the nomination.  If you're trying to offend Hillary's supporters, that works.

I assume you think because they're both female?  That's not just offensive to Hillary, it's sexist.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

I took that in an evil twin, soap opera sorta way.  Just sayin'.

by fogiv 2008-09-02 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

just educatin'  It's rather important, it's time to end the girl hate.  We have an election to win.  

by anna shane 2008-09-02 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

Again, I think you're taking it the wrong way.  

The way I read it, the poster was suggesting that Republicans (not his/herself) see Hillary as nakedly ambitious, a teller of bald-faced lies, blah, blah, blah.  I'm sure you'd agree these beliefs are widely held in Repub circles, no?

Attacks that suggest Palin is a liar, or fires those who disagree with her, or uses her family as political cover aren't made against her because she's female, but rather because they appear to be largely TRUE.

I don't think the comment was meant to be an apples to apples comparison, but instead draw attention to Republican hypocrisy.

Then again, I could be wrong.  Maybe I try to hard to see the good in people, eh?

by fogiv 2008-09-02 10:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

You presume correctly. The point is to define Palin in the disingenuous terms THEY use to define Hillary. The difference in Palin's case is we have to get the truth out about her. Lying isn't necessary as it was for the GOP.

by Spiffarino 2008-09-04 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

I think the point is that Palin is all of the negative qualities that the GOP always accused Hillary of having, and none of the positive.    

Palin is the ambitious pantsuit who wants to take over our lives and end Democracy, except she wants to do it to usher in a Christian Fundamentalist version of Iran.

by gavoter 2008-09-03 05:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

No, she is NOTHING LIKE HILLARY. My point is to define her in the same terms the GOPers use to define Hillary.

Limbaugh, Hannity and their lesser counterparts on the Screeching Right have always attacked Hillary Clinton by saying she's ruthlessly ambitious, underhanded and cold. All lies.

The facts indicate that Palin is all that and worse so I say we hit her with a heavy dose of what they threw Hillary's way. I'm not advocating trashing Hillary...I'm advocating hoisting them on their own petard.

by Spiffarino 2008-09-04 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Cutting Palin off at the Legs

What shine?  Is there a shine to take off?

by dMarx 2008-09-03 12:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde
we must be very careful how we attack Palin... she may look out of place or unqualified to us, but to the fundamentalist rightwing christianist base (the GOP that votes) she talks their talk and walls their walk.... being a mother who doesn't believe in birth control DOES qualify her from their POV, because she is a "believer".
we will make a fatal mistake if we dismiss her out of hand or make fun of her family. in my part of the country, there are thousands of people like Palin, and they were hesitating over whether or not to vote for McSame.   now they have a reason.
scary, i know, but it is the reality we have to deal with.
by joe in oklahoma 2008-09-02 07:44PM | 0 recs
That "if" is a mighty big if.

If they cared about birth control as an actual issue, they're not voting for Obama. For sane people, birth control isn't even considered to be a point of discussion.

by vcalzone 2008-09-02 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: That "if" is a mighty big if.
i know they would never vote for Obama.
my point is that they might not have turned out on election,  just stayed home. Dobson had even suggested it. this choice gives them reason to turn out, hold their nose and vote for McCain.
by joe in oklahoma 2008-09-02 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: That "if" is a mighty big if.

And my take on that is: people like that are by and large (with exceptions) concentrated in very red red states. Palin may have taken Texas completely out of the mix, if it was ever there (I'm still acting like it is, though; at least my part can get bluer). But I don't see it moving nearly as many voters in purple or blue states.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-09-02 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: That "if" is a mighty big if.

Joe, with Palin on the ticket, Evangelicals will crawl over broken glass to vote for her.

Dobson endorsed McCain for the first time as soon as Palin was announced.

Your concern is dead wrong, for that reason.

Attacking her won't make any difference to the evangelicals, they are on board already.

If we DON'T present her for what she is, a hard right extremist with wacky views, she MAY fool moderates to thinking she is more in the main stream.

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-02 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: That "if" is a mighty big if.

Listen to Blue, because they are right. I KNOW evangelicals, my family is chock full of them, I used to be one. Whatever chance Obama had at getting them disappeared once Palin was on the ticket. At this point, I have to worry about getting shunned for supporting Obama. (half kidding)

The good news is that Palin takes his campaign completely over to the right and eliminated the possibility that McCain could run moderate. So we HAVE to get that out there, but if we do, we can cruise to victory.

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 12:10AM | 0 recs
Wright? Who's he?

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem, he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner's views to her.

by vcalzone 2008-09-02 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

I completely reject the idea that proselytizing among Jews is anything like the holocaust as long as coercive measures are not used. Proselytizing is not wrong for any faith. I read the wikipedia link and while I heard a lot about deceptive practices, the only things I saw were that Christ made Judaism obsolete--no more than any other religion relatively speaking and the Yiddish which I find odd but I guess I'd have to learn more about the practices.

Personally I think Christianity is the truest religion (that's why I call myself a Christian) but that other religions also are valid. Non coercive honest proselytizing/evangelizing of all peoples and faiths/non-faiths is appropriate. As they can do to Christians.

So I'm less offended by this than I guess most people here.

by MNPundit 2008-09-02 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

That said, linking terrorism to the lack of Jewish Christians in Israel is as ridiculous as saying 9/11 was caused by "teh Gay."

So there's an example of deceptive practices I suppose.

Color me additionally offended!

by MNPundit 2008-09-02 08:04PM | 0 recs
Proselytizing IS wrong. Period.

If your religion is worth following, it ought to be able to speak for itself, no proselytizing necessary.  Proselytizing is arrogant, obnoxious, and usually deeply offensive to the target--the exact opposite of what faith is all about, which is humility, peace, and love of one's fellow man.  As for "non-coercive" proselytizing, I have never encountered such a thing.  People who proselytize never, in my experience, take no for an answer--they will push their books into your hands if you want them or not, and will follow you around or stand on your lawn long after you asked them politely (or even impolitely) to leave.

As for the Jews for Jesus and their deceptive tactics, let me inform you as to what is actually going on.  The JfJs are not only telling people that Christianity and Judaism are compatible (which, given that a basic tenet of Judaism is that the Moshiach has not yet come, and that no mere man can be God, is a blatant lie), but that one can worship Jesus as the son of God and not be a Christian (even though accepting Jesus as the Messiah son of God is the definition of Christianity).  They use Jewish symbols like kippot and stars of David to convince uneducated Jews that they are a Jewish group run by Jews, even though the leadership of the movement is entirely made up of Evangelical preachers.  The founder of the movement stated explicitly at its founding (I wish I still had the quote bookmarked) that the goal of the movement was to serve as a "halfway house" on the path to converting the Jews to full-out evangelical protestantism without their awareness--essentially, a "boiling the frog" strategy.  I'd say that's some pretty darn deceptive tactics, wouldn't you?  

And that's not even getting into their recruitment tactics, which involve specifically targeting children and nursing home residents--the former through indoctrination against the parents' wishes, the latter by preying on their loneliness and (in many cases) more fragile minds.  There have also been multiple cases of JfJ's "converting" nursing home residents and then badgering them to give the movement large sums of money in their wills, and of JfJ's succesfully "converting" children and then harassing the parents mercilessly for "not supporting the child's wishes and interests" until the parents consent to start attending JfJ services with the child.

I'm sorry, but this group is just plain SICK, and your defense of them is half-assed in the extreme.

by Elsinora 2008-09-03 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Proselytizing IS wrong. Period.

It's half-assed because I don't approve of their methods either but I support proselytizing and proselytizing at Jews is no different from doing it to athiests or Buddhists or whatever.

I suppose my concept is more like yours in practice: act in accordance with the commands of Jesus Christ 1) Love God 2) Love Your Neighbor like Yourself, and if they ask tell them about the whole deal.

So what if you don't like it? That just means they're doing it poorly, not that it is wrong on it's face of it. A Muslim is free to come up to me and tell me why Islam is awesome and more spiritually sustaining and makes a better world than Christianity on the street, and I think that's a good thing.

I was also aware previously that Christianity is considered heresy in Judaism.

by MNPundit 2008-09-03 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Proselytizing IS wrong. Period.

This phrase in your comment should explain why Jews are very uncomfortable with J4J:

"...if they ask tell them about the whole deal."

Very few people ASK J4J to tell them anything.  Instead, J4J sends their people door-to-door, specifically looking for Jewish households, and as other posters have noted, looking for potentially "weak-minded" Jews like college students and nursing home residents.

I had a fiery confrontation with a J4J representative on San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf this summer.  And I reported him to the authorities for passing out religious material on the Wharf, which is a no-no.  I was pleased as punch to see him escorted from the premises.  :)

The reason that Jews have such scorn for J4J missionaries, and more tolerance for the Mormon or Jehovah's Witness that comes to the door, is because J4J is based on lies and deception.

They've appropriated the tenets and trappings of Judaism -- they speak a little Hebrew, they wear kippot, they call their gathering places synagogues, etc.  Their whole purpose is to try and deceive people into thinking that you can be Jewish and still accept Jesus as the Messiah.  And that is just a 100% bold-faced lie.

They prey on the young, the poorly-educated (from a Jewish standpoint).  And in a particularly disgusting tactic, they have a special affinity for intermarried couples.  They try and convince intermarrieds that joining J4J is a "compromise" between one partner's church and the other partner's synagogue.

In reality, it's no such thing.  If you pray to Jesus in it, it's a church.

The deception is why I HATE J4J with a passion, and I always will.

Anyone who wants to learn more about J4J's despicable practices, and how to counter them, should visit jewsforjudaism.org

by erzeszut 2008-09-03 10:48AM | 0 recs
See, that's the disconnect:

Proselytizing means telling people "the whole deal" without their asking (and frequently, in spite of their refusal).  What you describe as "acceptable proselytizing" doesn't actually fall under the definition of proselytizing at all...no duh if somebody asks you for information, you can give it to them.  That's not proselytizing.

You are correct: proselytizing at Jews is no different than doing it to atheists or Buddhists "or whatever".  It is all equally wrong.  Unless somebody asks you about your religion, don't follow them around telling them why its better than theirs--especially after they've asked you to stop.  Proselytizing is a form of harassment, plain and simple, and as such, it is not something people should support.

And the "It's okay if I do it because you have the right to do it to me" argument is simply bullshit.  When was the last time you actually saw non-Christians out proselytizing in this country?  Other than the Hare Krishnas, they don't do it.  The Jews don't do it because we consider proselytizing ethically wrong (that's a tenet of our religion, and part of why we find the JfJs so insulting), the Hindus don't do it because their religion is one you pretty much have to be born into, the Buddhists don't do it because their religion doesn't require a conversion, and the Muslims and Wiccans and the rest don't do it because if they tried, the Christians would raise a huge unholy outcry and they'd be all but crucified for their temerity.  Face it: you support proselytizing because your religion has a monopoly on it, and you know you won't ever have to deal with it yourself.

If I want to know about your religion, I'll ask.  If I don't ask, that's a pretty good sign that I don't effing care.  Seems pretty darn simple to me, but then again, I'm the only one of the two of us who actually has to deal with this religious harassment crap.

by Elsinora 2008-09-03 01:42PM | 0 recs
This sounds like the Wexler comments

trying to tie Governor Palin to Pat Buchanan, etc. All were proven false by the end of the day; she supported Steve Forbes in that race, not Buchanan. How original....a congressman in Florida trying to raise the sceptre of anti-semitism is pretty despicable.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-09-02 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: This sounds like the Wexler comments

BJ, could you spend a little more time on every thread defending Palin, telling us how we are blowing it, correcting all the attacks?

I know I missed you going from thread to thread defending Obama and Biden, I guess you were too busy then....

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-02 09:11PM | 0 recs
"Jews for Jesus" is honest, respected

What is tricky about this website:
http://www.jewsforjesus.com/

What is wrong with Jews for Jesus? As an evangelical Democrat I have read much of their literature and talked to many members.
They impress me, there arguments are coherent and logical and show more respect for the Jewish roots of Christianity more than any other Christian group.

They don't "trick" anyone, they do pitch Christianity to a Jewish audience. Reminding folks that Jesus was a Rabbi, and that is Hebrew name is Yahew. They enable converted Jews to keep there Jewish traditions like the Passover and educate many non-Jewish Christians like myself.

If someone is involved in a group that really has hate speech that is one thing.
These guys are straight up and smart in my opinion
http://www.jewsforjesus.com/

by graham poor 2008-09-02 08:26PM | 0 recs
Did you read what the guy said?

It isn't just that he wants to convert Jews to Christianity - a BIG no-no to Jews. It's that he actually PRAISED Palestinian terrorists for attacking Jews.

This is God Damn America all over.

by elrod 2008-09-02 09:26PM | 0 recs
They're never honest and rarely respected.

AIsh, a highly respected Orthodox site, has a little something to say about your logic.

They're con men, plain and simple, and if you find "con men" impressive then you need send your ethical compass in for warranty repairs.

These deceptions are most successful with Jews who have no knowledge of their own Jewish heritage. In Russia, for example, where Jewish education had been suppressed for 70 years, missionaries sponsor "Jewish revival meetings," where a tallit-clad clergyman asks throngs of unsuspecting Russian Jews to "accept Jesus into your heart."

by auronrenouille 2008-09-02 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: They're never honest and rarely respected.

God. That is horrible. Tricking poor ignorant Russian Jews into thinking that it is okay to believe Jesus is the Messiah.  It is terrible. Just terrible.  

What could be worse I ask you? What could be worse?

by dMarx 2008-09-03 12:27AM | 0 recs
Re: They're never honest and rarely respected.

Ask the Jewish community.  We do NOT like people coming to us and telling us that our religion is really Christianity if only we had the sense to know that.

by thezzyzx 2008-09-03 03:10AM | 0 recs
Re: They're never honest and rarely respected.

Jesus was a great rebbi. But the Jews for Jesus guys are kind of nuts. In the end, it will all become mythology one day.

Probably be replaced by Buddhism, really. China controls the world, she will contrl the world religiion. Judaeism, remember, is only about 7,000 years old. Christianity is about 2,000 years old.

China is older than that.
Sorry if I am being skeptical. I like to ask questions such as "ok, if this is the solution to the universe, where was it 3,000 years ago?"

by Trey Rentz 2008-09-03 08:37AM | 0 recs
No, what's terrible...

is taking a group of people who know nothing about their heritage and come to you to learn something about it and blatantly lying to them.  If somebody asks you to teach them about a religion they want to follow but know little about and you teach them your own religion instead, you are a dirty liar and a godless opportunist.  Period.

If a Jew knowingly and willingly converts to Christianity, that's fine.  But converting a Jew to Christianity by telling them that it's Judaism is disgusting and wrong.  If the situation were reversed, it would be equally heinous.

by Elsinora 2008-09-03 07:47AM | 0 recs
Let me put it this way...

if an African-American wanted to learn about African history, and his teacher taught him that the Africans were total savages who benefitted greatly from European rule, wouldn't we all be outraged?

JfJ is doing the exact same thing.

by Elsinora 2008-09-03 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: They're never honest and rarely respected.

What could be worse.   How about the Bible being superceeded with an amended add on book, the Book of Mormon.   Maybe today's Christians would not mind joining an organization called Christians for Mormons?

by Monkei 2008-09-03 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address

I am unclear on whether people think this is a legitimate gotcha or whether this is simply payback for the attempts to smear Obama with guilt by association for the stuff Rev. Wright said.

I'm not particularly a fan of this approach, nor do I think it is necessary as most Jews will be disinclined to support Palin's brand of evangelical Christianity regardless.  It's not our bag.

by Steve M 2008-09-02 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address

Well, it will be very telling if Palin is never forced to "denounce and reject."  Then again, if she were to start that, the way things are going she might never finish!

by rfahey22 2008-09-02 10:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address

It's more a matter of, "can you believe that THIS happened too?"

by vcalzone 2008-09-03 12:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address

Meh. Its neither. Palin was just in the audience, but by being there, she tacitly communicates that she actually wants to listen to what the guy has to say.

Kind of like, going to a KKK rally and not burning a cross. You are there, dressed like they are. You're saying not that you believe whatever
the guy burning the cross believes. But rather, that you believe whatever the people who invited him, believe.

So, she's a member of a wild church. And evangelical. gasp. Can you imagine, a member of the  GOP, being a member of an evangelic church?

In the end, what I like about what Jon wrote here was that it made me ask the question..

Which Candidate, could Israel be best served , in the event of a National Emergency - Taking the Reins of Power.  The consummate Foreign Policy wunderkind - Joseph Biden, or ... A former mayor of a town of 3,200 people, and a woman currently under investigation for abuse of power... Sarah Palin?

Clear questions, have clear answers .

by Trey Rentz 2008-09-03 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address

It's one part gotcha but, for me, it's one part of legitimate offense.  We've seen these rhetoric before and we know what it leads to

by thezzyzx 2008-09-03 03:12AM | 0 recs
GOP Answers: She Has an Israeli Flag!

Voters should feel confident in Sarah Palin support of Israel, Republican Jewish leaders and other GOP figures argued on Tuesday. Not because of the Alaska Governor's policy statements, a proclaimed understanding of the Middle East, or relationships with regional leaders. But because she keeps a small Israeli flag in the corner of her office window.

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02 /gop-jews-defend-palin-she_n_123340.html

by January 20 2008-09-03 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founde

I remember as a kid in Hebrew school, they actually gave us "anti-cult" training, giving us warning signs for religious groups that specifically target Jews.  Jews for Jesus was right up there on that list.

Publicizing this in heavily Jewish areas could do wonderful things to rally people against Obama Palin.

They were even sued by Jackie Mason:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500374. html

But they do give out Awesome Comic book pamphlets in the New York train stations.

by geverend 2008-09-03 04:01AM | 0 recs
Sarabama tonight

I think she is toast, however, we have lowered the bar so damn low for her that tonight if she can piece together 5 sentences she will look like the next coming of John Kennedy.   I think it will help her for a week or so, but at sometime she has to take on reporters and that is when the real stuff will happen!  If they continue to hide her that is just about as bad as letting her screw up in front of reporters.

Right now we are getting all the news stories from the MSM, some probably very real, some probably almost very real.   But when she gets asks about some of these and stumbles and bumbles through the answers ... well then she becomes real toast.

by Monkei 2008-09-03 06:47AM | 0 recs
The simple fact

The simple fact is that Palin was chosen to attempt to get the evangelicals moving.

Does anyone remember the poor woman down in florida, that had lost half her brain mass in coma and was permanently brain damaged?

The merciful family attempted to let her life simply end, and lo and behold there were people running a dog and pony show around her because of a hidden GOP memo that said " this is exactly the thing we need to get the evangelicals going".

Well. To my mind, Joseph Biden would be a capable president, and a fine ally of Israel if God forbid Obama gets the visit by the grim reaper.

However, if McCain's time is up, and palin is somehow tasked with helping Israel - good lord, what are we going to do? I would just say that the last thing Israel needs is her

by Trey Rentz 2008-09-03 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: The simple fact

Or, if I might add... any other solution that puts the dog and pony show over real, substantive diplomatic solutions.

Israel is a country the size of New Jersey surrounded by hostile arab nations.

Do we drive for show, or putt for dough?

by Trey Rentz 2008-09-03 08:09AM | 0 recs
Isnt AIPAC a special interest?

Lieberman was all sanctimonious about McCain not caving to special interests. Yet, he had no problem taking the time so soon after the VP pick to escort Palin to meet with some AIPAC honchos. And they probably grilled her which led to their statement that they feel she wouldnt act against the interests of Israel.

SERIOUSLY???? SHE IS SO NERVOUS OR STRAPPED FOR TIME, WHO KNOWS, THAT SHE HAS REJECTED MEETING WITH EVEN HER BASE. YET AIPAC IS DEEMDED SO POWERFUL THAT IT MERITS A MEETING WITH HER SO EARLY IN SUCH A CRAMPED SCHEDULE??? AND THEY GIVE THE POTENTIAL VP THEIR SEAL OF APPROVAL? They should have no say in our process.

by Pravin 2008-09-03 10:32AM | 0 recs
Palin Went to Address by Jews for Jesus Founder.

and this is one issue that the Obama campaign should raise over and over again.

by cChalfonte 2008-09-03 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin - Jews for Jesus Founder...

by cChalfonte 2008-09-03 12:53PM | 0 recs

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