The Coming Palin Backlash

Sure, as you can see from the rec list, the idea that John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate would boost his support among hordes of Clinton's disaffected female supporters is a miscalculation at best. CNN ran a piece that featured a very funny montage of woman after woman, all former Clinton supporters, answering the question of whether they're likely to support McCain now that Palin is on the ticket by just saying "No""No""No""No""No"...

CNN also interviewed one woman who was incredulous:

Well, first we were just laughing. Does he really think that's going to work?

The piece went on to contrast Palin and Clinton even further, citing the fact that Palin is anti-abortion rights, a member of the NRA and, well, is a Republican. As Van Jones puts it:

"Someone should stand up and say: 'I know Senator Clinton. Senator Clinton is a friend of mine. And Sarah Palin is no Hillary Rodham Clinton.'"

But the larger damage done to McCain's candidacy by his pick of Palin may not be among Hillary Clinton supporters at all, but instead among moderate Republican women turned off by Hillary, inspired by Barack but leaning toward McCain. Could the condescension and the pandering inherent in the Palin pick tip them ever so slightly toward Barack Obama? If this e-mail from a friend of my mother -- a life-long Republican who is disillusioned with Bush and the party but still has residual goodwill toward McCain from 2000 -- is any indication, the resounding answer is yes.

Does McCain think he will bring women over just because he has chosen a female for VP? That has to be his reasoning behind his choice since she is under investigation in her state for alleged misconduct in requesting a commissioner fire her brother-in-law and she has very little to recommend her for the position.  (oh, wait, her husband is in the oil business!) As a female, I am insulted that ol' John McCain thinks all females vote based on gender. (yes, I know some do, however, I believe that most of us are more thoughtful). I may have to take a couple of sips of Obama cool aid. [...]

Well, I was really undecided until this lady came on. Now, I am definitely leaning toward the Dems. I am bitterly disappointed in McCain. I have been a supporter of his for a very long time; however, the McCain I supported in the past seems to have been taken over by the Bushes. It makes me very sad.

I suspect my mom's friend is not alone.

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Sarah Palin (all tags)



by judybrowni 2008-08-29 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I suspect she would help Mccain when its all said and done...

by lori 2008-08-29 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I simply can't believe that you would be for this. I thought you cared about security.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I am not for or against it , i just get the sense that she would be of some help to him electorally ..

She doesn't do much for me on security but as a woman i am happy for her.

by lori 2008-08-29 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I can respect that, but I can't imagine that McCain has won support from anybody who cares about anything other than abortion and creationism.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:33PM | 0 recs
After what you did to Hillary........

You really deserve sarah Palin presidency.

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: After what you did to Hillary........

Really?  Does anyone deserve a Sarah Palin presidency?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 03:46PM | 0 recs
Because of what you are doing to Hillary....

You really deserve a McCain presidency.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:48PM | 0 recs
The fuck?

Let me guess, vcalzone is the one who ran over Buddy?

by BrighidG 2008-08-29 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: After what you did to Hillary........

Got news for you. My misconceptions about Hillary were due to my own ignorance about what she stood for. I never bothered to check on my own preconceived ideas. But I never DID anything.

Now the thing you should ask yourself is, if you have to pick one or the other, who do you want to be mad at, the group that constantly pushed those memes over and over, or the guy that grew up hearing it?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:06PM | 0 recs

Exactly what did vcalzone "do" to Hillary?

by mikeinsf 2008-08-30 12:29AM | 0 recs

You guys are missing what just happened.  McCain chose Palin for the following 4 reasons:

1. Solidify and electrify the Republican Christian right base. Dobson came out today to endorse the ticket (he didn't even endorse 'W' in 2000) because of the Palin pick. This is McCain's "Ground Game", without it, he loses and he knew it.

  2. New theme: 'Maverick Reform' - all of this McSame stuff now goes out the window - he is going to pound the reform theme, with Palin's outsider and out-of-the-box assistance, to convince America that HE is the Agent of Change. (Also, won't be hearing about the houses anymore).
   3. Palin will attract a solid percentage of undedcided independent and some white working class women Democrats - not many but enough to make a difference in small town Ohio, Michigan, and PA.
   4. Kiss those western state dreams good-bye Obama! Sarah is a woman of the West. NRA, hunter, pro-drilling, Mom with 5 kids. Fits into the strong western woman brand - Goodbye Colorado, Nevada, Montana, and New Mexico! Sarah has just stolen them from the Dem's

by oliver777 2008-08-29 04:06PM | 0 recs
Palin will play Kathie Lee to McCain's

Regis.  Republican voters in the heartland will love this.

by cChalfonte 2008-08-29 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin will play Kathie Lee to McCain's

Republican voters in the heartland aren't morons. They know what this is. The ones dumb enough to be convinced were already... REPUBLICANS!!!!

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Clueless

If she delivers Colorado its all but over.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

That's a really sad commentary on what motivates you.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

There are plenty of women I would not be happy to see succeed; there are just as many female "bad guys" as good.  

What is this new take that femaleness equals quality, or merit.  I am not happy to see a woman who opposes pretty much everything I believe in, succeed.  I would like her to fail horribly.  She is not acting in my best intrests of those of my country.

I really don't get this.

by mady 2008-08-29 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I thought so at first, but then I thought, the party that capitalized nonstop on 9-11 is picking this woman to hand the country to in a crisis.  To me this is a slap in the face to those who take national security seriously.

I'm not sure that she is not just going to become a joke rather quickly.

by mady 2008-08-29 03:30PM | 0 recs

You guys are missing what just happened.  McCain chose Palin for the following 4 reasons:

1. Solidfy and electrify the Republican Christian right base. Dobson came out today to endorse the ticket (he didn't even endorse 'W' in 2000) because of the Palin pick. This is McCain's "Ground Game", without it, he loses and he knew it.

  1. New theme: 'Maverick Reform' - all of this McSame stuff now goes out the window - he is going to pound the reform theme, with Palin's outsider and out-of-the-box assistance, to convince America that HE is the Agent of Change. (Also, won't be hearing about the houses anymore).
  2. Palin will attract a solid percentage of undedcided independent and some white working class women Democrats - not many but enough to make a difference in small town Ohio, Michigan, and PA.
  3. Kiss those western state dreams good-bye Obama! Sarah is a woman of the West. NRA, hunter, pro-drilling, Mom with 5 kids. Fits into the strong western woman brand - Goodbye Colorado, Nevada, Montana, and New Mexico! Sarah has just stolen them from the Dem's

by oliver777 2008-08-29 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Clueless


Great snark dude!

You had me going there for a bit!

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Clueless

Is there anybody - any registered voter in the United States - who will be like holy shit, no way is this person qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency?  I am just wondering if your analysis acknowledges any downside.

by Steve M 2008-08-29 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Clueless

So wait, a VP pick is going to clinch 4 states none of which are within 1500 miles of hers?  Wow.  Powerful!

by thezzyzx 2008-08-29 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Clueless

a) McCain's polling numbers says he didn't have a base problem

b) She's never been vetted. You aer making assumptions about what he can use her for. As Ezra Klein correctly points out- her vetting comes now in the middle of an election where McCain is already down.

c) Your feelings of what Palin will do is not the same as what will happen. Hence why this diary is discussing actual women of the group you mention to demonstrate that your thought process aren't reality. Pallin's views are antithetical to the very voters you mention.

d) People don't vote VP noms. They vote Pres. Most of the western states in which Obama will win are based on the Latino vote- Obama is up by 45 percent amongst them in NM just to name one state. But hey, keep thinking of this as the cure all for your guy. I certainly like people who believe their own hype over those who realize they've made a mistake and correct their course.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Obama's people have to move and define this quickly in a way that won't be contradicted when she speaks later this week. We can't let her ooh and ahh the media simply because she can actually talk.

Let's not forget, the media is sexist, but it's in love with women who "know their role". Obama can't let her just make it okay to be inexperienced and ignorant on a national level because she's a girl.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:22PM | 0 recs
One bad thing for Obama

Is that the brilliant speech that Obama gave yesterday is out of news cycle. I do not know if Sarah brings any new voters or not to Rep party; but that speech and the substance of it has gotten buried. Romney or Pawlenty would not have achieved that.

Of course, this also means that the outreach of Obama to teh so called ``evangelical'' voting block will not yield dividends.

by ann0nymous 2008-08-29 03:22PM | 0 recs
the news cycle is frozen

it's the labor day weekend.  

it would be like naming the veep the day before thanksgiving.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: the news cycle is frozen

Nicely said.

I went to the store today and, although awesome, saw Obama on every single frontpage paper. That's not bad, but remember he has been the top story for almost 2 weeks now.

I'm as Obamabot as they come. But even I was feeling a bit of Obama fatigue and I can't imagine people who are not that into it.

The speech was perfect and McCain played the only trump card he had left. A great week for Democrats.

I'm going nuts this weekend!

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:34PM | 0 recs
38 million people watched his speech

so I wouldn't worry about McCain stealing any thunder from Barack, and all the other fantastic speakers.  

I agree that most folks have already headed off to their long weekend events.  

This "pick" by McCain, is a slap in the face to women, not a compliment.  

The right wing voters that were headed his way were there already.  But other women will go in the opposite direction.

Look at Susan Eisenhower.  

by NeciVelez 2008-08-29 04:59PM | 0 recs

This just secured Colin Powell's endorsement.

Brokaw said on MTP that Powell would endorse based on the VEEPs.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Powell

Secured Powell's endorsement for McCain?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:25PM | 0 recs
no. the other way around

I'm sure Powell takes this as an insult.  To nominate a VEEP how was the mayor of a town with a population of 8,471.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: no. the other way around

You never know with these Republicans. Maybe he likes her.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: no. the other way around

I doubt he's even met her.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Powell

For Obama, I'm sure you mean.

Biden has credentials that Palin will never have.

by lojasmo 2008-08-29 04:25PM | 0 recs

She loves mooseburgers and hates polar bears!

She wouldn't allow her 17 year old daughter to have an abortion (NEVER) if she was raped!

( I've been hearing she has a mean bong collection, can anybody confirm this?)

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:27PM | 0 recs
what if the perp was a polar bear?

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 03:31PM | 0 recs
Then she would bear the consequences n/t

by parahammer 2008-08-29 04:07PM | 0 recs
She does not hate polar bear!

If I disagree with Obama I am a rascist correct?

She does not think the polar bear population is  endangered.

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: She does not hate polar bear!

No, she doesn't.  Also, she doesn't believe that global warming is man made.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 03:44PM | 0 recs
Did you know that she worked with liberal

Democrats in the legislature to clean up corrupt republicans?

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Did you know that she worked with liberal

Who cares about corruption when we will have an "ice cap free, polar bear free" planet?

Let's make big elections about small things, eh?

by Stipes 2008-08-29 04:05PM | 0 recs
Did you know that she works against liberals

everytime she spews her bullshit rightwing propaganda?

and did you know?

You do too?

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 04:06PM | 0 recs
"She does not think ...

... the polar bear population is endangered."  Then she is an idiot.  You don't get to "think" about whether or not a fact is true.  I "think" the Cubs might win the Series.  I don't "think" the sun rises in the east.

by Tangie3 2008-08-29 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Paul Begala has a great column on this.

For a man who is 72 years old and has had four bouts with cancer to have chosen someone so completely unqualified to become president is shockingly irresponsible. Suddenly, McCain's age and health become central issues in the campaign, as does his judgment.

For months, the McCainiacs have said they will run on his judgment and experience. In his first presidential decision, John McCain has shown that he is willing to endanger his country, potentially leaving it in the hands of someone who simply has no business being a heartbeat away from the most powerful, complicated, difficult job in human history.

Can anyone really say, with a straight face, that Palin is qualified to be president? Obama may not be the most experienced, but at least he has experience in national politics, served on Foreign Affairs, has traveled the world, and has a very well thought out ideology on how to tackle the world's challenges. Palin doesn't even have foreign policy views, as far as I can tell.

by animated 2008-08-29 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

the experience argument is not the way obama wants to go in attacking her .

i personally believe she is as qualified for the job as obama is ...

by lori 2008-08-29 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I think the experience issue is a great one against the McCain/ Palin ticket. Not just experience but judgement. McCain only met her ONCE - he doesn't even know her! How can he vouch for someone who doesn't even have positions on foreign policy to take over the job of president?

by animated 2008-08-29 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I agree with your take on this selection.  It can be used to underscore the temperament argument not just the judgment argument.

As you put it, he selected for the VP office, a position he describes as a heartbeat away in many videos, after a single meeting.  One single meeting.  

Now that is rash.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-08-29 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

McCain made a wiser decision for VP than did Obama.

Judgment isn't on your side vis a vie VP

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Well, now you've lost MY support. Either you're stupid or a troublemaker, but this is the scariest thing to possibly happen to us in a long time.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

And I don't mean bullshit electoral scary, I mean "We might have someone who doesn't know jack shit in the white house" scary.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

That could either be Obama or Palin depending on how you look at it..

by lori 2008-08-29 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Even you know this is bullshit, you just like Palin. It's okay, you can admit it, but please don't make yourself sound ignorant like that.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

You don't know the limit of her knowledge or intelligence , you are making a personal judgement which doesn't necessarily make it the case.

Being underestimated actually might work in her favor , when she is finally seen in debates folks would likely be struck with her intelligence and knowledge...

by lori 2008-08-29 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

You don't know either, and you haven't found anything that suggests otherwise or else you'd have said so. So your confidence in saying she knows just as much as someone who has as much about policy on the record as Barack Obama is completely misplaced.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

We DO know that she said she had no idea what McCain's position on Iraq WAS not two weeks prior in an interview with Time Magazine.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I have said no such thing..

All I have talked about is their qualifications in terms of their resume which I can assess by positions they have held..

She has been a mayor , a governor which would make her resume or qualifications comparable to Obama or maybe even slightly better than he's.

She lacks the experience in my view , as well as Obama but she is no less qualified..

If an argument is made that she doesn't have the qualifications to be a heartbeat away from the presidency , what does that say about Obama who is running to be president..

by lori 2008-08-29 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

So you are saying that Barack Obama, someone who has written two full books full of ideas on international policy and discussed it with leaders around the world, not one of which who were unimpressed... is just as qualified to discuss foreign policy as Sarah Palin, even though you have seen nothing to actually indicate that she has any knowledge of foreign policy whatsoever.

Just... is that what you really believe?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Your assessment skills are seriously lacking. Nobody gets hired based on resume alone, and comparing positions without analyzing context and achievement is lazy at best. I'll assume you've never been in a hiring position.

Since you have a clear and consistent anti-Obama bias on this board, it colors every comment you make. You've backed yourself into a corner on this one. Step back, and try again tomorrow.

by BobzCat 2008-08-29 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

McCain made a wiser decision for VP than did Obama.

One of the keys to effective trolling is to stick to statements that aren't utterly moronic.

You haven't gotten there yet.

by Collideascope 2008-08-29 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

heh McCain's main argument was that Obama isn't qualified enough and now this talking point is busted.  Any time Johnny brings it up the democrats will use the hypocrite card.

This is a good day for democrats!

by hocuspocus 2008-08-29 03:40PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Its amplified because you repeat it.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 04:25PM | 0 recs
What is your problem?!

I don't mean this in a mean way...but you're clearly a Dem, wrote an elegant, gracious diary the other day, and not really a troll...yet you keep acting like you WANT the Republicans to're quick to jump on anything Obama does, praise or fret about what McCain does, and quick to troll rate anything you disagree with...why>

by thurst 2008-08-30 05:06AM | 0 recs

I can't believe you mean that.  Educationally, in terms of his knowledge base, I think there is a world of difference in their qualifications.

And Creationism?  An anti-science President?

That alone would make someone unelectable to me in this day and age.

by mady 2008-08-29 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

She has been a mayor , a currently successful governor  and all her other experiences , in terms of qualifications she is either equally qualified or even a little more qualified in my view...

I don't know how an argument can be made that she is not qualified and Obama is...

by lori 2008-08-29 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

I can make it rather easily.  She's been in politics about half as long as he has.  Most of that time was spent dealing with a body politic smaller than Barack Obama's state senate district.

She's been governor only slightly longer than Barack Obama's been running for president.  She has never faced an opponent as implacable, entrenched, well-funded, or well-staffed as Hillary Clinton.  Taking down Murkowski was no small feat, but that's not the same.

She's been playing small ball in a small ball state for half as long as Barack Obama has been in politics.  She's been a pretty good governor for the last eighteen months.  Her state's legislature is in session 90 days a year.  She's had, at most, what, 135 days of legislative experience?

This is hilarious.  Anybody who said that Barack Obama wasn't experienced enough has to be smoking some pretty good rock to think that someone with half of that "inadequate" resume is ready to lead.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-08-29 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

If she is not qualified for the job as a governor ( an executive and the CIC of the state and guard ) and a former mayor  , I don't know how you can convincingly argue that Obama is ready for the job either....

Winning an election doesn't necessarily mean you are qualified or ready to lead , politicians win elections all the time.

Her resume is comparable to Obama's if not sligthly better.

You can argue she has the wrong views and positions but if Obama argues about her qualifications he would be playing a losing hand...

by lori 2008-08-29 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

but if Obama argues about her qualifications he would be playing a losing hand...

and so would McCain.

Which is exactly the point everybody is making here.

That "inexperienced" meme didn't work in the primary, and it isn't working now. McCain switched gears. and tagged a "celebrity" to pump some life into his stale campaign and message.

You are pretty astute in your knowledge (seriously) lori so I have no idea how this is going over your head.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Thta's not really the point some are making , thats a totally different take which I actually agree with somewhat.

Some seem to be arguing that she is less qualified than Obama is and his camp can gain the advantage on the experience issue which is a position I disagree with.

She has a comparable resume and the best Obama can hope for is a wash..

by lori 2008-08-29 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Qualified != experience. If that's what you're saying, that they should talk about her being radically unqualified instead of radically inexperienced, I agree.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Christ, she pronounces Iraq as "eye-rack". You going to tell me that she will be taken seriously ANYWHERE? This isn't the Princess Diaries, and she doesn't have a Julie Andrews to help her.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

A wash would be a big step up from where he was before this pick.

But I am thinking that to a big number of voters, Palin's qualifications + McCain's age will be too risky a proposition to back. You're even hearing it from some Republicans in the media who are being intellectually honest. Again, it's not the amount of time you've spent in a position that is all that matters - it's the judgement, insight and mastery of the issues you've shown.

by animated 2008-08-29 04:36PM | 0 recs
Please stop with the TRs

Uprated because no way lori deserves all these TRs.

Come on folks, we would all do well to listen to what lori has to say.  If you hang out here, you know she is honest and forthright.

I often disagree with lori, but I respect what she has to say and she makes me think about where I stand on things.  More importantly, if we ignore or denigrate voices like lori's, we will be in deep, deep trouble in November.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-29 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Please stop with the TRs

lori's doggedly promoting Sarah Palin in the context of not-so-subtle attacks on Obama's experience. She knows, as does the McCain camp, that the selection of Palin undermines the experience argument against Obama, and so she's attacking the point of greatest weakness. By equating Obama's background with Palin's, she's trying to diminish Obama as much as raise Palin.

If she just made her case and moved on, I'd respect it more. But she's keeping the argument alive, repeating her memes over and over. That's  trolling, no matter how nice she is.

And frankly, I'm just tired of reading, at a Democratic blog, how terrific Sarah Palin is, how bad terrible this is for Obama, and how this is great for republicans. Discussing challenges and strategy is one thing. Open advocacy for the opposition is not what I'm here to read.

by BobzCat 2008-08-29 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

You are so transparent.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-30 12:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

She became governor in that time and he was unable to do so.

Her rise in position belies skill and not random luck or the effect of random luck need to be considered vis a vie Obama...

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

I'm fairly certain that Obama could have been governor of Alaska if he'd had the opportunity and desire. I'd bet that ANYBODY could be governor if they had those two things. Jesse Ventura was governor of Minnesota! JESSE VENTURA FOR PRESIDENT!!

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Why are you arguing with someone who supports the republican ticket?

Is that what MyDD is supposed to be? A sparring ground for Democrats and republican trolls?

Seems like a waste of time and energy. This kind of "debate" is pointless and just makes people cranky and depressed. Except the trolls, who are getting tons of lulz from it.

by BobzCat 2008-08-29 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Education, head of Harvard Law Review for one thing.

He has proved he thinks clearly and internationally.  He has clearly provable knowledge of the issues.  

She may or may not be qualified but there has been absolutely nothing coming from her except her gender that should have put her in contention for heartbeat away from the President.  I have no idea what this was based on.  Well I do and it is a sleazy strategy.

Obama has a body of work that is there to be looked at.  She has almost nothing that is known about her except her extreme right wing ideology and, again, her gender.

by mady 2008-08-29 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

The fact that he was the head of Harvard Law Review doesn't in itself make Obama more qualified or have a better resume to be the president .

Her resume even if not enough ( even in my view ) is comparable to Obama's and that hasn't disqualified him at least from your perspective , so I wonder why you would make that argument against her , there is a lot of inconsistency there.

If Obama's resume is the bottomline with regards to qualifications to be president , I would argue she is more than qualified..

I don't see how anyone can maintain the position that Obama is qualified to be president and she is not...

by lori 2008-08-29 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Obama has articulated positions on foreign policy issues that the public is familiar with. They know that he's worked on issues like nuclear proliferation in the Senate and traveled the world. I have absolutely no idea what Sarah Palin thinks about the war in Iraq, the emergence of China, or Russia's belligerance. And I don't think she has even considered these issues, because she never needed to.

McCain met her one time - ONE TIME! - and had a single conversation with her. What does that say about his judgement? Is he really that confident that nothing bad will happen to him in the next 8 years? Are you?

by animated 2008-08-29 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

You see both of them very differently than I do then.  I would not trust her with my security; either you would, or you would not trust him.  Either way, I just disagree.

by mady 2008-08-29 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

I would not trust either of them with national security.

by lori 2008-08-29 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

So you are voting for?

by mady 2008-08-29 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

she's writing in Alegre.

by venician 2008-08-29 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Barack Obama sat down with a world leader in Israel and impressed him, because while McCain often deferred to Lieberman, Obama actually knew his stuff and didn't need any assistance.

You think Palin would feel comfortable in that situation?

All that executive ability is is JUDGMENT. It's entirely based on knowledge of history and prevailing theories. If you don't have that, you aren't qualified. You CAN BE a governor and still not have a clue about anything but your own state. Particularly in a place as disjointed and corrupt as Alaska.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

I think we all know what your opinions are at this point. you are a Macsame bot hiding under a concern troll shell.

Enjoy your Macpoints till Nov.

by Fistjab 2008-08-29 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

You are a strong advocate of the need for strong and credible candidates on national security.  You made a very powerful and persuasive case for Sen. Clinton on this basis.  Now, national security does not have the same totemic quality for me as for you, but you were an effective advocate.

So your equivalence strikes me as odd.  In terms of years, maybe.  In terms of executive experience, maybe she gets it.

But in terms of national security?  I have to think a senator, that is an official of the federal government which deals with foreign matters unlike state officers, who was a member of Foreign Affairs committee during many sessions, authored non-proliferation legislation with Lugar, and so on, must outweigh. Just the time in Lugar's office working on that bill is worth more than she has.  Then there are the several private conservations with nearly a dozen important foreign leaders on his world tour, several of which offered their stamp of approval.

How is equivalence possible on the dimension you claimed to be most important? Help me understand.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-08-29 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

If we are talking of national security , they both do nothing for me on that score .

I disagree that she is less qualified than Obama .

Her resume is comparable to Obama's , she might lack the experience ( which I agree she does ) but she is no less qualified than Obama...

by lori 2008-08-29 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Understand you are not impressed by Obama's foreign policy experience.

1. But surely you must grant his, however small, is significantly greater than hers.  He has some; she has none, unless being close to Russia counts as Fox seems to think.

2. Then when you isolate national security as your most important consideration, which you did in the primary wars, that would suggest he is more qualified than her, by simple logic (given 2).  By a huge margin, even if Sen. Clinton was orders of magnitude greater still.

That's what has me confused.  But thanks for making the effort to explain.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-08-29 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Obama does seem to have more experience on foreign policy than she does I would grant you that due to his position as a senator  , although I disagree with a lot of his judgments on those issues .

However if you look at their resumes she is no less qualified since foreign policy is not the only thing a president would be involved in....

If she articulates foreign policy position or judgements that I feel is consistent with my beliefs I would probably think she is more qualified even if she has less experience..

by lori 2008-08-29 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Except his judgment has proven correct. Do you deny that he was right about the time table issue? Do you deny that he is right about the need for increased diplomacy? His beliefs are pretty much in accord with much of what Clinton said in the primary and indeed even this week. What does McCain offer that's better since none of this is in vacuum. You claim Obama's judgement ist hat good- then what does that say about McCain's? We can keep going on that merry-go-round. But unless you answer things in context it's not a full answer.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 05:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Well, great to know what you consider judgment and experience. All people have to do is write down things to say that you want to hear and you'll go nuts.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 05:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Read Andrew Sullivan's blog, just once, just the first page: e_daily_dish/

And then tell me that you think this is an acceptable choice.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?
Here, here's one small bit from that. Answer this comment he got from a reader:
You are absolutely on point that the most important aspect of the Palin pick is what it tells us about McCain's judgment. Picking a VP is one of the first serious, consequential decisions of a presidential candidate. It is somewhat like a parent choosing who will be the guardian of their child in the event of death. The VP isn't just some vote-grabbing machine - it is the second-highest Constitutional office. For JM to offer this slot to someone with such meagre credentials, whom he hardly even knows is a sign of serious character disturbance.
by vcalzone 2008-08-29 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

One more, these are HER OWN WORDS on Iraq. Not last year, not two years ago, AUGUST 14, 2008.

The GOP agenda to ramp up domestic supplies of energy is the only way that we are going to become energy independent, the only way that we are going to become a more secure nation. And I say this, of course, knowing the situation we are in right now -- at war, not knowing what the plan is to ever end the war we are engaged in, understanding that Americans are seeking solutions and are seeking resolution in this war effort. So energy supplies and being able to produce and supply domestically is going to be a big part of that.

Even I know what McCain's plan to get out is right now.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

Here's a link to a great dkos diary that shows her "good judgment" as mayor of Wasilla! 183255/841/290/579394

by kjblair2 2008-08-29 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Equivalent?

She has been a mayor

I live in a town twice the size of Wassila.  What does the mayor of that 8,471-person metropolis do?  Sheeesh, even here it's a part-time position.

She had to decide whether to hire Spanky the Clown to perform at the annual "Grizzly Bear Days" or whether or not to allow the local convenience store to widen its sidewalk by another three feet.

Yeah, keep telling us how that's more relevant than representing hundreds of thousands of people and working on laws in a state of millions and millions of people.

by Collideascope 2008-08-29 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

"i personally believe she is as qualified for the job as obama is ..."

Wow. Just saying....

by WashStateBlue 2008-08-29 03:48PM | 0 recs
Just for You

I'm not always in agreement with Andrew Sullivan but he seems to hit this question you raised pretty convincingly on the head:

It occurs to me that some on the right actually think that Obama is as inexperienced and as trivial a figure as Palin. So ask yourself: could Sarah Palin have run a national election campaign against, say, a machine as powerful as the Bush family, and won? Does she have the skill set to construct a campaign that would actually have brought her to the nomination herself? I find the comparison with Obama ludicrous. But it will be made. Palin looks to me like a lovely person and a good local politician, with some inevitable rough spots. I'd be delighted if she took a leadership role in the GOP in the future. But in the same league as Obama? Do Republicans really think that little of him?

Andrew Sullivan - Experience Again The Atlantic 29 Aug 08

Your thoughts?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Just for You

She isn't black wouldn't get 90% from AAs so the answer is no.

Sorry if reality causes a reaction.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Just for You

She isn't black wouldn't get 90% from AAs so the answer is no.

Racist DTAYLOR claims that blacks only give 90% of the vote to African-American candidates.

Tell that to Bill Clinton, Al Gore or John Kerry ...

by Collideascope 2008-08-29 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Just for You

Reality?  I can think of a few other words for it.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Lori given your posts I would be surprised if you didn't write what you just wrote. You aren't exactly what we would call the unbiased voter to whom McCain has to appeal with this. I simply don't think your opinions at this point are credible. You say you are about foreign policy, but now that McCain nominates an unqualified choice to be Vp, you are arguing its basically okay despite your claims above that you aren't saying this.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I am not saying its okay , she does nothing for me on foreign policy .

However if you are going to make the argument that she is not qualified to be President then Obama would be open to the same criticism because her resume is comparably to his and in my view even better .

She has been a mayor and she is currently successful at her job as governor , Obama really doesn't have such experiences.

by lori 2008-08-29 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

By your definition, the mayor of New York and the mayor of Hiram, GA could be comfortably interchanged. The PM of England is just as valuable and knowledgeable as the PM of Morocco.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

She has been a mayor of a town with 8,000 people.

I'm sure Obama's work as a community organizer had him involved with a lot more than 8,000 people.

Does his time in the Illinois Senate not count either? Or was he just hanging out and not working for his country then?

You keep saying she has done something but you're not getting into details. Which means even you had barely heard of her until today.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I am sure a community activist carries the same responsibility as a mayor and/or a governor as it relates to carrying out executive duties and dealing with decisions that impact lives and security..

by lori 2008-08-29 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Some highschool student council presidents serve more people than she did in that town. Are you being serious?

As for the Governor bit, it's Alaska, and Obama has been running for POTUS as long as she has been in office.

You didn't answer my question about the Illinois Senate.

I'm sure he served more than 50 times the people she did in a town of 8,000 people.

You know how I know McCain fucked up?

When even the most insightful Republican we have on the blog ( don't mean it as an insult, it's pretty obvious you are) can't find decent talking points to make her case.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 05:18PM | 0 recs
Here's a nice quote

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq. I heard on the news about the new deployment"


Seriously, you need to stop with the GOP talking points.  Even here, I'm surprised you've not been flushed.

by lojasmo 2008-08-29 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

You seem confused. I am not making the experience argument- you and McCain are. I think the experience argument is bogus in some ways. But you know what's more bogus- double standards or blind bias. Many people are confused about your posts along this diary thread. Me, not so much. I think your bias against Obama clouds your judgment. Although the interviews above are anecdotal, they certainly unscore that I may be right here more so than your positions in that many women would see this as insult rather than a virtue that he equating Clinton to Pallin. In other words, anyone woman would do. For tht matter, as one friend said today- you are telling me this the best he could find of the GOP women? it's a real insult to women, but I think your bias blinds you to this point.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 04:43PM | 0 recs
Judgment is more than time spent in a job

You didn't understand this concept in the primaries and I see that things haven't changed since. Experience and judgment is acquired from many different sources. Since none of the candidates have been President before, none of them have experience directly related to the job in question.  As a result, you have to look at their life experiences and decide if that background gives them the judgment to make good decisions once elected.

Sarah Palin was mayor of a town of approximately 8,500 people and has been governor of a state of approximately 680,000 for less than 2 years. She has expressed no interest in affairs outside of Alaska which results in very little knowledge of policy details, both domestic and foreign. Look at the Youtube clips being posted and tell me that she has the knowledge necessary to make good decisions.

Compare this with Obama. He has made several trips abroad, has been able to have substantive discussions with foreign leaders and has more than just a working knowledge of world affairs. Hell, even Bush is following his lead on a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq and talking to Iran. Domestically, he has shown the ability to get legislation passed in Congress in a bi-partisan manner, working both with Colburn on ethics legislation and Luger on nuclear non-proliferation. You can't just count up the number of years in a position. It's not that simple.

Most importantly, McCain apparently made his choice for VP based on one in-person meeting with Palin last February, one phone call earlier this month and a second in-person meeting earlier this week. Is that good judgment? Sounds pretty rash to me.

by kjblair2 2008-08-29 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Experience is not something that happens to you, it is something you seek out. Obama has done PLENTY of that, and as a result, he has a fairly strong understanding of several key areas. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked Obama about Pakistan, he'd be able to go head to head with you and might just know more than you.

Palin did not do that. She has limited herself to local politics and only recently even moved into statewide politics. She has not shown any interest in foreign relations or economies of scale, and that is a GREAT BIG, HUGE, VERY BAD DEAL.

So yeah, they DO NOT COMPARE. One of them actually understands how the world works, the other one will memorize talking points she hears over the next few weeks. And my GOD, I thought you understood that!! Christ almighty.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

BAH. I don't know what the hell I thought economies of scale meant, but it sure wasn't macroeconomics.

Of course, my own display of ignorance only proves my point.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Well said, anyway:)

by animated 2008-08-29 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Bullshit.  Palin has eighteen months as governor of a bumfuck state.  Before that she was mayor of a town of fifteen hundred people.

Seriously, you need to fucking stop.

by lojasmo 2008-08-29 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Why the venom toward Alaska?  It's a great state.  Leave them out of it.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-08-29 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Beautiful, to be sure.  Full of full-on redneck republicans?  Yes.  

Productivity > Low
Population > Low
Tax base > Low
Philosophy > ass backwards
Social programs > nonexistent
Racism > Rampant

No sales or personal income tax, and voted for Bush by 25%

by lojasmo 2008-08-29 06:18PM | 0 recs
you've gone off the deep end

To equate someone who has been under intense scrutiny and vetting of every word during every hour of every day of every month over the last 20 months to someone who has undergone this for one half of one day is insanity.

by mboehm 2008-08-29 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I can agree -- if you're applying the Bill Clinton standard (the one he expressed recently, not the one that he ran on, to make that clear). They're both US Citizens over 35; they're equally qualified.

By the same standard, I'm sure you agree that John McCain and Hillary Clinton are as qualified for the job as Barack Obama and Sarah Palin are, right?

I mean, if you actually meant that Barack Obama and Sarah Palin have equal experience... really? Let's see: state senator for years from a district 1/3 the size of the state where Sarah Palin is governor. Advantage: Obama. US Senator for four years, from a state 14 times later than the one she's been governor of for two years. Advantage: Obama. Constitutional law instructor vs. fisherman. Advantage: Obama. Considerable foreign policy experience vs. one trip to Iraq. Advantage: Obama. Solid understanding of the national economy versus apparently solid understanding of the Alaska economy. Advantage: Obama. Managing a US Presidential campaign for 18 months with fiscal responsibility vs managing Alaska for roughly as long. Tie on executive experience, with an edge to Obama as Alaska has benefited enormously from high oil prices and has been easy to manage, whereas Presidential campaigns are notoriously difficult.

Or to put it another way: Obama is pretty much as qualified (in terms of experience, etc) as JFK, close to as qualified as Bill Clinton, and far more qualified than George W. Bush. Sarah Palin is roughly as qualified as Spiro Agnew; she falls well short of even the George W. Bush level of qualification.

But on the 35 and natural-born US Citizen standard, yup, equally qualified.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-08-29 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Maybe she will name Cheney as her VP should she become POTUS.

by antiHyde 2008-08-29 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Andrew Sullivan has a great argument agains the experience issue:  Could Palin have put together such a powerful campaign, have reached the presidency on her own?

I think we know the answer to that.

by trustno1 2008-08-29 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Jack Cafferty took some chump from the Weekly Standard and just brutalized him. He asked him to name any reason why we should trust her to answer the 3AM call and he had NO clue. And with good reason.

McCain's people seem to think reminding people of Obama's inexperience by comparison will be bad. I don't think so. Take a look at the two and tell me that one isn't WILDLY more qualified to be President. All McCain did was create one pair that has an abundance of knowledge and ideas, and one pair that is way, way behind on both those things.

I LIKE Sarah Palin. I think she should run for Senate and I think she could reform her whole damn party. But my GOD, she is nowhere near ready to run this year. It was a mistake. Big, big mistake.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I really, really like that last comment. I like her too -- except for the creationism, extreme pro-life positions (and I do mean extreme -- out of sync even with moderate Republicans), global-warming denial, anti-environmentalism, and so forth. But then she is a Republican.

But yes, she's got a lot of positive qualities, and I'd like to hope that she'd push a reform, anti-corruption, fiscal-responsibility, etc agenda, were she to win higher office.

But she's clearly nowhere near ready.

This was a mistake. It was a campaign mistake, a personal mistake on McCain's part, and may be career-limiting for her depending on how it plays out.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-08-29 08:42PM | 0 recs
Obama has been running for pesidency.....

ever since he got to the Senate. So what experience does he have?

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:57PM | 0 recs
You're a fucking troll

Why are you on this site?

by BrighidG 2008-08-29 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama has been running for pesidency.....

Look at his very solid legislative record -- much more accomplished in his 4 years in the Senate than a lot of Senators with 2-3 times his tenure -- and get back to me on that.

Sorry, the empty-suit attacks are, and always have been, pure nonsense.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-08-29 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

The Republican Party is full of qualified women. I did not watch, but I heard that Kay Baily Hutchison looked shaken up and passed-over when she spoke to them.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 03:31PM | 0 recs
Exactly - Bingo

Hutchinson has been in Texas politics for 40 years.

Palin's jurisdiction had a population of 8,471.

If he was going to pick a women, surely he could have picked Hutchinson.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 03:35PM | 0 recs
Don't shed crocodile tears!

You had no problem bypassing a candidate that got 18 million votes.

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't shed crocodile tears!

Joe Biden is a) not a naked pander to Clinton supporters, and

b) accomplished.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't shed crocodile tears!

For an immensely qualified person with knowledge of international issues who can hold his own in debates, speak eloquently, and be a forceful attack.  John McCain passed over women with more experience for one who's elected experience consists running a town of under 6,000 and the 4th least populated state in the union (for two years).

Say what you want to about the Biden selection (I was originally lukewarm myself), but Palin instead of Lingle/Hutchison/Snowe/Collins/Rice/etc. is far worse.

by TheUnknown285 2008-08-29 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't shed crocodile tears!

Great post. It's what many who are "concerned" about the Palin pick are not getting.

It's not that she is a woman. It's the fact that the GOP had a lot more qualified women and they got passed over for the hot soccer mom.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't shed crocodile tears!

Oh I think those women would have been safer choices. But those safe choices would have made an already  boring McCain campaign even more boring. I think this has the potential to either blow up in his face or propel him to the white house because this lady seems to have some energy that conservatives can be enthusiastic about. Right wingers like their women good looking(in her case, at least in the past) and spunky but professing religious nuttery.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't shed crocodile tears!

are you equating voting for a candidate (the democratic primary voters choice) to hand selecting one? Are you comparing Pallin to biden? Do you really want to go there?

by bruh3 2008-08-29 04:05PM | 0 recs
But he didn't pick a female VEEP, you knucklehead

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly - Bingo

And he would have lost with Hutchinson. An old guy choosing an old woman with a well known but hardly energetic fiery legacy? That will fire up the masses! They would be a hit in the senior citizen set.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I'm sure Olympia Snowe is just pleased as punch as well.

But, those women have been trashed by the hard right evangelicals for not signing on to the "Baby Killer" abortion line.

They love Palin, she would make her raped daughter carry to term.

Also, I think Mitt must be pissed as well.

This was supposed to be his ticket to center stage, to set him up, either for 2012 or 2016.

Well, the RR Evangelicals just gave HIM the finger as well...

So, perhaps this sows more seeds of dissension in the Republic camp then in the Demo camp.

I do hate how the media is fawning over her.

Pretty, young, kids....

I wonder if they would have fawned over Kay Bailey as strongly?

by WashStateBlue 2008-08-29 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I saw it, and she was!

by venician 2008-08-29 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Seems to me the Palin pick creates a marvellous opportunity to bring genuine gender issues, not merely gender identity politics, into the campaign debate.  Gently.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 03:31PM | 0 recs
Have you verifyed who is writing to CNN

You really do not know who is posting those messages. They could be coming from dailykos, or DNCC. Give me a poll from a reputable organization. Otherwise it is just BS.

by indydem99 2008-08-29 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Have you verifyed who is writing to CNN

Jack Cafferty said the same thing. My mom wasn't impressed. My fiancee wasn't impressed. Her mom wasn't impressed. My sister wasn't impressed. My friends weren't impressed. NOBODY I know bought that this was anything other than a pander.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Have you verifyed who is writing to CNN

These were interviews, not blog messages on CNN.  Like, a reporter talking to people.  I doubt CNN went to MoveOn and gathered a crowd of staffers.

by dmsdbo 2008-08-29 03:51PM | 0 recs
I don't care what your sig says

Someone who bashes liberal sites and thinks people "deserve" a Palin or McCain president is not a Democrat.

by BrighidG 2008-08-29 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Have you verifyed who is writing to CNN

My unabashedly liberal boss and her angry feminist 80 year old mother were both angry about this pick.  They would never support a woman who does not support another woman's right to choose.  Yeah, they are both post-menapausal, but they are not so selfish that they will condemn the next generation of women.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 04:46PM | 0 recs

This from Halperin, of all people:

On the face of it, McCain has failed the ultimate test that any presidential candidate must face in picking a running mate: selecting someone who is unambiguously qualified to be president.

Mark Halperin - The Palin Pick: Bold or Disastrous? Time 29 Aug 08

Who'd have expected the right-leaning punditry to take a stand on principle?  Having said that the rest of Halperin's piece is tentatively approving, but still:

But if McCain is wrong about how big a plus Palin will be, he might have just undone the gains of the last last month, in which his campaign succeeded somewhat in defining Obama on Republican terms and closed the gap with the Democratic nominee in key state polls. He has taken a chance on Sarah Palin to shake up the race -- but at a time when many Republicans do not see why the race needs to be shaken up.

Mark Halperin - The Palin Pick: Bold or Disastrous? Time 29 Aug 08

Not exactly a home-run.  What gives?  Does Halperin really think McCain was winning?  The McCain campaign obviously didn't.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 03:38PM | 0 recs
I still just can't believe

that McCain picked Kyle's mom as VP. /SouthPark05-KylesMom.gif

by snowback 2008-08-29 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

John McCain:



by Jess81 2008-08-29 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

McGimmick's risky VP pick will be news only until Gustav gets into the Gulf and bears down on the coast.

But he managed to blunt the story of Obama's smashing success, and that's what the choice was based on.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

ha 38 million people saw his speech and that is not counting cspan and pbs.  His speech was in every front page news, he got enough the exposure he wanted.

by hocuspocus 2008-08-29 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

That's right. McGimmick managed to stop the pundits from talking about Obama's smash success for a day, but he couldn't erase its image from the minds of those who saw it -- more than watched the openinig ceremony of the Olymics.

I'll go out on a stout limb and predict that the GOP convention gets the lowest ratings in history.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 04:47PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I want an explanation for why you HR'd my comment in another thread. It was not trollish in nature in anyway. It was lamenting the fact that Palin invoked Hillary and it wondered allowed whether or not we were in trouble.

If you feel that really deserved an HR please let me know. I'd also love to know why.

And if you did it because you just thought I was some sort of GOP troll or PUMA you should go through some of my other comments.

by JDF 2008-08-29 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

"We are in trouble, make no mistake about it people."

I did it because it was a damned cowardly fraidy-crat remark.

If you want to HR my comments for being too positive and encouraging feel free. I'm sure they'll get uprated.

by Obama44 2008-08-30 12:02AM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I beg to differ.  How is this a "fraidy-crat" remark?  You don't think that in the campaign for change having a minority helped?  You don't think that uninformed voters won't see that as the Republicans finally breaking ground for women?  Votes are not made up of the vastly informed....

by selfevident 2008-08-30 03:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Your comment was self evident.

by Obama44 2008-08-30 10:38AM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

So you HR'd my comment basically because you don't want to hear about anything but rainbows and puppies when it comes to our likelihood of taking back the White House.

I don't need to HR your comments over it. I just need to know that no matter how much we may agree politically you are not the type of person I would ever call a friend or ally.

by JDF 2008-09-01 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

hell effin yeah.

thank you

by selfevident 2008-09-04 11:21PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Yep  Obama beat American Idol.  That is a crowd.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

I knew my first instinct, which was to vomit, wasn't going to be just limited to me.

Republicans pull this shit with African Americans all the time: it apparently convinces enough white voters to make a difference, otherwise they wouldn't do it, but I know black people HATE it.  "Clarence Thomas" is a curse word.

But I never knew exactly how they felt until today.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 03:55PM | 0 recs
you're right...

and it is our job to work for mind blowing AA turnout.

by mboehm 2008-08-29 05:55PM | 0 recs
Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

I was laughing when I first heard about the pick. THen I start digging into her past. Looked at the conservative sites. OK, she may not be as valuable in attracting the hillary voters as McCain obviously thinks this may do. But after the initial skepticism by some republican women who were for Hillary, I do think some of them will warm up over her.

She does seem to support abortion only if it harms the health of the mother, so while the lack of examption for rape is too extreme for me and others like me here, her stance actually puts her in the very conservative but not batshit crazy section of the rightwingers who area pro abortion.

She is viewed as being anti-corruption by the conservatives. And they seem to get a kick out of her firing an M-16 in some video.

I think with time, her relative freshness to the field may actually play to her advantage because she is only the VP.

I would not laugh off this choice. I wish he chose Lieberman.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

Point taken but the sheer political cynicism of the choice has gotta' count against the McCain campaign.  We'll see, but the message it sends to the electorate completely undermines McCain's leverage of the Republican national security narrative that we are in perpetual crisis since 9/11.  Perhaps it's the end of an era but it certainly seems a significant shift if you stop and think about it, Bush's VP was Cheney, for pity's sake, McCain's is a 'hockey mom' with purely domestic political assets.

And McCain's age makes a VP choice particularly sensitive, I would have thought, even among conservatives.  Seems they aren't thinking past November, unlike Democrats, which has gotta' tell you something.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

Republicans use the experience memo only because it favors them this election. Gore was more experienced than Bush and that counted for nothing in their eyes. Their emphasis on some issues like experience or integrity is based on the opportunistic factor. If it favors them, they will use that card. When kerry was the one with military experience, they pooh poohed it as minor and looked at the "quality" of the experience. When McCain comes up with that same issue, it is held against Obama.

I think any backlash about this opportunistic choice will recede. It's not like Obama hasn't done his share of calculated choices.

I think the Obama people need to take this very seriously and not  be too cautious this campaign. I already saw Obama give a statement about Obama and he was horrible. He was pausing every freaking second and took forever to make his statement. Just let it rip. He looks like he is searching for the right words.

I think the election is now based on how Palin conducts herself. I still can't get much insight in how she answers the middle east question.

She was against the Bridge to Nowhere and that was one of the very few issues in which right wing bloggers actually took one of their own(Ted Stevens) to task.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

I meant "obama gave a statement about Palin"

by Pravin 2008-08-29 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

But she wasn't against the 'Bridge to Nowhere'. See this TNR article. /archive/2008/08/29/did-palin-really-fig ht-the-bridge-to-nowhere.aspx

The best part about the story is that Alaska got the money anyway!

by kjblair2 2008-08-29 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

Excellent, they need to attack her on it, but don't count on it to bust the right wing perception of her. They will view her conduct in that matter as merely being diplamtic with her local party people. They can easily explain away that behavior. She can still say she did not stick with the impractical and she knows how to priortize by knowin when not to fight futile battles.

The fact that this lady seems to have limited Iraq war opinions can be used to create a blank slate for her. Her statment about needing an exit strategy can be twisted to suit their agenda. And I think she will be hell of a campaigner at the meet and greets the McCain team will have to do.

I just feel that whatever negative effect her choice will have on some women who recognize the calculatedness of this will be offset by those women who will appreciate the boldness and risk taking of this choice. And it is a risk. If McCain wanted to take the safe route of attracting Hilary voters, there were many safer choices to choose from as some other MYDDers put it.

I don't agree with religious fanatics like her. But this was a bold choice. Quite frankly, Obama did not do a great job condemning creationism when it was brought up in one debate. Even though I supported him, he makes me uncomfortable with his religious zeal though it is not a deal breaker for me because for a very religious christian, he is very open minded to people of other religions and hopefully the non-religious.

I also think this choice will kill any hope Obama had of getting the religious fanatic votes(not that there were many who would have crossed over) who may have wanted to stick it to McCain.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

Who gives a fuck about the "right-wing perception"? We are convincing independents, not crazies. They don't care about us anyway. Independents absolutely DO care about stories like this.

And this is just one example. In the debates, Biden needs to very nicely just bring up questions she won't be able to answer. Compliment away, attack McCain, but be very gracious and make it clear that she can't fake expertise.

But then again, she's not really a problem. You DO realize that we can make the case that it's just too soon for her, right? That it's too early for her to run, and maybe she'd be a great figure in a few years time, but for now she just isn't ready? obama ran because he WAS ready, and that shows. She just found out about this and had time to prepare last week. She's not ready. Not at all.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

Besides, we have to talk about McCain. If we talk about Palin's inexperience, it should ONLY be from the perspective of "John McCain might have picked a great tomato, but he picked it before it was ripe."

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

From my experience, republican moderates are willing to coexist with the religious nuts in their parties if they can show other positive charismatic attributes. This lady has it.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin may not be a terrible choice after all

I agree with most of what you said, but note with glee the apparent passing of the 'homeland security alert' narrative of domestic politics.  Unless she starts talking about hunting down Bin-Laden with her own Kalishnikov, which I kinda' doubt.

I'm not sure this is checkmate to the disenfranchised shift of at least some evangelicals.  That dynamic has been on the cards for quite some time and runs pretty deep, and nothing recently has seemed to change it significantly.  Obama has just come along and embraced it.  It's low-hanging fruit, we might pick up as much as 2-4% this year, as Democratic voters.  Possibly more.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 09:49PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Has anyone looked at the picture of the two of them on McCain's website?

His site went from having a strong military look to a local mock-up for mayor and treasurer of some small town. Just bad marketing on their part...

by NeoGayJamesDean 2008-08-29 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

well she'll probably take AK off the electoral map, although Obama won't depend on those 3 votes - probably. It'll save McCain from wasting money shoring up one of the several red-states that have come into play.

by swissffun 2008-08-29 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Here's something interesting - according to KO, she supported the Bridge to Nowhere.  There's a quote and everything.

That's kind of a killer.  He can't run on experience, and he can't run on reform.  Obama can say "No more heckuva job Brownie incompetence, and no more bridges to nowhere."

by Jess81 2008-08-29 04:31PM | 0 recs
You guys are conveniently overlooking one thing

Sarah Palin gets a turn at bat. It really doesn't matter what women think of her tonight, or what her name recognition or reputation is compared to Hillary. She's not running against Hillary.

I can almost guarantee Palin will make a very favorable impression beginning at the GOP convention next Wednesday night during her acceptance speech. I spent a week in Alaska when Palin was running for governor. There were billboards and commercials and campaign offices all over the place. You couldn't help but take notice. Many locals said positive things about her. It's one of the reasons I wagered on the GOP ticket on Intrade before that '06 gov primary, a confidence Palin and not Murkowski would emerge as GOP nominee.

Palin has a relaxed charming style in debates and speeches. She looks at simple big picture themes instead of trying to match blow by blow on issue specifics. That's going to be very formidable, whether we like it or not. She doesn't get flustered. It doesn't hurt that she is attractive with an All-American flock of kids behind her.

I was worried about McCain picking Palin, Condi Rice, or "some Republican from Ohio," as Jerome put it. I was hoping he'd pick Joe Irrelevant Whie Guy From Elsewhere, game over. Now we have to sweat one or two percent of moderate female voters flirting with Palin.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-08-29 04:32PM | 0 recs
Well, those are great qualities

For someone that can't create a nuclear war. For everyone else, we need someone who knows what the fuck is actually happening in the world and has the gravitas to prevent chaos from breaking out.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, those are great qualities

It would also help if we could get a Republican would could actually say nuclear.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, those are great qualities

Well, from McCain's point of view, apparently not, interestingly enough.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-29 04:50PM | 0 recs
We might lose 1-2% of white females

but we'll make up for them with the small percentage of people in this country that actually give a crap about serious government that were leaning towards Republicans before this nonsense.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: You guys

But none of that stuff matters.  People vote for the top of the ticket.  The bottom of the ticket is there to send a message about the nominee.

McCain just said "I know I've said that Obama has no experience, but I just picked someone that makes him look like John Quincy Adams."

And women are genuinely pissed about this.  But she will fire up the far right, no doubt about it.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: You guys are conveniently (palin)

We seem to be in a minority on this. I don't think people here realize that this choice is not as crazy as it looks.

by Pravin 2008-08-29 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: You guys are conveniently (palin)

It's not as crazy as it looks, I agree.

It looks like it's stark raving batshit crazy.

Instead, it's just run-of-the-mill lunatic crazy.

It's still a really, really bad idea, it's just not quite as bad an idea as it might've been.

I mean, yes... McCain's simply managed to:

  1. Denigrate most actually qualified Republican female elected officials
  2. Piss off moderate Republican women
  3. Destroy his campaign's central argument against Obama
  4. Put his (unjustified) reputation for integrity at further risk
  5. Look cynical and pandering
  6. Make his age and health an open campaign issue instead of just a stealth issue
  7. Annoy the business wing of the Republican party
  8. Insult pretty much every Clinton voter who wasn't voting for her simply because of her gender and for no other reason
  9. Put a lot of moderate and independent votes at risk
  10. Tie his campaign even more to Ted Stevens
  11. Take Obama's energy policy off the table
  12. Damage his flimsy credentials as pro-environment and anti-global warming
all in just one VP pick.

It could be worse. He could've somehow managed to pick up even fewer than 3 EV with it (while risking dozens), I'm sure. For instance, while she's actually better on a lot of points, overall Paris Hilton would've been a worse VP choice.

So, it's not quite as crazy as it looks. He did more-or-less solidify 3 EV, after all.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-08-29 09:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

They're already vetting her scandal on MSNBC as we speak.  They had the guy she fired(or at least that's who I thought he was) talk about what happened and it didn't look good for her.

by venavena 2008-08-29 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Forget your politics.  To hell with right or left.  The thought of this woman (highly likely given McCain's age) with her finger on the button is horrifying.  Simply horrifying.  Could you imagine her handling a terrorist attack?  My god we will long for the days of Bush/Cheney.

by scytherius 2008-08-29 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

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She endeared herself to her future husband when she declared at their first meeeting that she didn't even know who the candidates were in the 1912 election, and felt that women had no business whatsoever in politics.

Her precise role in the jailing and torture of Alice Paul and hundreds of suffragettes will never be known, but she was outraged that they picketed her husband's White House.

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by Virginia Harris 2008-08-30 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

Isn't that just like a Republican.  Sarah Palin knowingly eschewed an abortion in favor of giving birth to a child with Down's syndrome.  Instead of devoting hereself full time to a child with special needs she stayed on as governor of Alaska and is now campaigining for the vice presidency of the United States.  These Republicans are zealots on the issue of bringing children into this world but couldn't care less about caring  for these children, even when the children are their own.

by mccain666 2008-08-31 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The Coming Palin Backlash

The comparisons between Palin and Obama on the issue of qualifications are ludicrous.  Obama graduated Harvard law school and was the first black president of Harvard Law Review.  Sarah Palin holds a journalism degree from the University of Idaho.  Of course, Governor Palin's slender academic credentials form a perfect bookend to John McCain's 894 out of 899 class standing at Annapolis (On the other hand academic accomplishments aren't everything; George Armstrong Custer finished dead last at West Point and look where he ended up).

by mccain666 2008-08-31 08:44AM | 0 recs


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