Palin? Yikes!

Make no mistake, Palin is a gamechanger pick for McCain. She, along with Whitman, was one of the two potential candidates that I thought had this potential for McCain. No one on the Democratic side saw this coming. I saw plenty of support for Palin in the rightwing blogosphere over the past few months. In fact, whenever there was a poll, she would win going away. Is she Quayle-like, or not ready? Its all going to play out here in the next few hours as she speaks, coming up in 15 minutes. That will be the impact, not all the chatter around the pick.

But you know, this is a really good pick for our nation. The Republican party has now opened itself up to having a women on the ticket for the first time in history. Palin is wrong on nearly everything in her policies, but its another powerful breakthrough for the political system.

Tags: Sarah Palin (all tags)



Re: Palin? Yikes!

Horray for pushing the Overton window!

by Exhausted Pennsylvanian 2008-08-29 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!'s another powerful breakthrough for the political system.

What?! ARE you JOKING? I hate to burst thy bobble-head, but the Democrats have the Republicans beat by about 24 years.

All of this "ooh, Palin is cool" is going to evaporate by next week. You'll see. She is worse than Quayle, worse than Pawlenty, and yes -- worse -- MUCh worse -- than Mitt Romney.

by SammyJames 2008-08-29 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I just hope that whole 'she is like Quayle' argument dies fast. Total non started for the Democrats.

by kristoph 2008-08-29 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Yeah, unbelieveably Quayle won after being killed in the debates by Lloyd Benson.   Go figure.

by miker2008 2008-08-29 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Palin= Female version of Quayle.

by SocialDem 2008-08-29 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I agree that it's a gamechanger, and that it's ultimately good for the country, but boy -- this really looks light a hailmarry to me.  It might work politically, but the potential downside here for McCain is huge as well.  

What this pick makes me think is that (1) McCain really wants to win; and (2) he's willing to risk losing big to do so.  I respect that attitude on some level, but I think this shows that he didn't think the generic "safe" choices gave him much of a shot.  We will see.

by HSTruman 2008-08-29 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I'm sorry, but this does NOT look good on paper or in real life. This looks bad all-around. She has five kids, which is pretty ostentatious. How can she possibly relate to people with only one or TWO kids, and who are struggling even then? And how is a pro-life, pro-gun, pro-nukes, pro-everything that Hillary supporters hate a good pick?

Hail Mary? Try "Brady to Moss in the last :10..."

by SammyJames 2008-08-29 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

you're knocking her because she has five kids?  talk about not being able to relate to people.

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Agree 100 percent with this diary.


by switching sides2 2008-08-29 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Yeah, no kidding. Governor fo a year and a half, and then on the city council of a town of 9,000 before that. It'll sure win over all those people who're looking for an experienced leader, considering McCain could kick the bucket anyday.

by ragekage 2008-08-29 07:52AM | 0 recs
Population of Alaska (2006): 670,053
New York city, NY             8,008,278        1
Los Angeles city, CA          3,694,820        2
Chicago city, IL              2,896,016        3
Houston city, TX              1,953,631        4
Philadelphia city, PA         1,517,550        5
Phoenix city, AZ              1,321,045        6
San Diego city, CA            1,223,400        7
Dallas city, TX               1,188,580        8
San Antonio city, TX          1,144,646        9
Detroit city, MI                951,270       10
San Jose city, CA               894,943       11
Indianapolis city, IN           781,870       12
San Francisco city, CA          776,733       13
Jacksonville city, FL           735,617       14
Columbus city, OH               711,470       15
(values from 2000)
by kydoc2 2008-08-29 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Population of Alaska (2006): 670,053

And mayor of a city of 5400 people before that. Lovely.

by ragekage 2008-08-29 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Population of Alaska (2006): 670,053

Does that include Moose?

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Population of Alaska (2006): 670,053

you're dead-on, rage. good to see you--haven't seen you in a while.  

by slynch 2008-08-29 08:29AM | 0 recs
a comparison I like:

Alaska's population is roughly the same as Obama's former IL congressional district.

by Casuist 2008-08-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
my bad... bad calc

TPM reports Obama's state senate district as 220,000.... meh, close enough ;)

by Casuist 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: my bad... bad calc

Use the line anyway - if people have to actually argue the point, it's good enough.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: my bad... bad calc

So, you want there to be a debate that compares Obama's experience (the would be president) to Palin's experience?

Probably not a good idea. It would massively reduce Obama's stature.

by kristoph 2008-08-29 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: my bad... bad calc

They're going to do it.

We're screwed, but i guess that's what happens when you have twenty somethings setting the agenda for a party.

by switching sides2 2008-08-29 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: a comparison I like:

And a lot better off.

by miker2008 2008-08-29 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Population of Alaska (2006): 670,053

It's not like they have a diversified economy or anything either.

I mean, if the US was all mining camps, she might have a clue about what goes on in the lower 48.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:17AM | 0 recs
Palin has more experience than that.

She was on the city counsel, and then she was mayor, and then she was President of the Alaska Conference of Mayors, and then, to quote wikipedia, she was "Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest. After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail. Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine."

So, I guess she also has the mavericky thing going for her because she blew the whistle on her own party bosses.

Also, she has something like 80% approval rating in Alaska.  Not that Alaska was exactly in play.

by dMarx 2008-08-29 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Wow. Really? You agree "100%" with this diary? Well, then enjoy voting for Mr. McCain.

by SammyJames 2008-08-29 08:40AM | 0 recs
Are you a spy?

In case you haven't noticed this is a progressive blog.  It is not really cool for you to come here and campaign for McCain.  Why don't you take it somewhere else.

I am going to troll rate you.l

by dMarx 2008-08-29 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Are you a spy?

lmao, that's the first time ive been TR'd for agreeing with a diary written by the owner of the blog.


TR away, abuser.

by switching sides2 2008-08-29 10:23AM | 0 recs
You post under multiple names?

You didn't agree with the post. Unless you think voting for McCain was the point of the post.

Why are you using multiple names?

Who's side are you switching to/from?

by dMarx 2008-08-29 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Are you a spy?

lol, i got HR'd for agreeing with the site owner.


Next time Ill be more careful, heh.

by switching sides2 2008-08-29 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Are you a spy?

lol dont forget the KY

by switching sides2 2008-08-30 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Heh. Pandering to the PUMAs if I ever saw it. I think McCain sees that as his only opening. He had to choose someone incredibly conservative, and a woman was a plus, figuring Clinton supporters were only voting for her because she had a vagina.

I'm actually a little surprised. A glance through the PUMAsphere and a lot of them aren't buying it. I figured they'd be eating that shit up. The only one I saw actively latching onto was our old friend, grlpatriot, but no surprises there since she was outed on FARK as a Republican. Too bad none of the PUMAs surf on FARK.

by ragekage 2008-08-29 07:50AM | 0 recs

Darlink' was into it the moment word came down.  To paraphrase, she puts country before ovaries.  But of course, she was only a "lifelong Dem" on teh internets.

by January 20 2008-08-29 07:57AM | 0 recs
Guess what

The PUMAtrolls are delirious with joy, proving they've never been real Democrats.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-29 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Guess what

You know, I grew up behind the iron curtain. My grandmother told me this story about how the communists took over (I am paraphrasing for brevity):

First they demeaned those who opposed them. Then they ostracized them. Then the arrests started.

A party that insists on loyalty before the opinion of the individual is not worth supporting.

by kristoph 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Guess what

Obviously your grandmother had no party loyalty.

by dMarx 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs

I do not believe pumatrolls should be put in jail.  I only believe they should not be given a free hand on Democratic blogs during the General Election.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

its gonna suck for Mcsame when he finds out they are only like 5 pumas

what a slap in the face to HRC supporters  

by wellinformed 2008-08-29 08:25AM | 0 recs
It is a total slap in the face

to all women.

Women (most of them I suspect and all the women I know) supported Hillary because of her stance on the issues important to us.  The fact that Hillary is a woman is a plus to us...the right woman at the right time.  Part of why some of us were resentful when some here pushed Sebelius is the same here (yes Sebelius is on the right side of the issues but it was telling us that OUR woman, OUR choice was not good enough would have been pandering).

Palin is in fact the anti Hillary.
She has not put in decades working on issues important to women: she is antichoice; anti public education; anti separation of church and state.
No women I know could vote the ticket because of this women any more than they could vote for a ticket with Phyllis Shafley.

by Jjc2008 2008-08-29 11:52AM | 0 recs
A miniscule number of women

who were diehard Hillary fans could ever vote for Palin.  In fact, for me, this is a slap in the face to Hillary supporters because Palin is the anti-Hillary.  

Hillary= pro choice
Palin= anti choice
Hillary = ALL Americans matter
Palin = anti gay
Hillary = universal health care
Palin = ???? supports McCain

In the end, this insults women.  Now I am not a PUMA and cannot speak for them.  But most here know I was pro Hillary.  I truly believed she was the best of the best.  

But if I had not already decided last night to support Obama/Biden, then this insult to women would have pushed me over. I say thanks to McCain...this makes me not only willing to hang signs for Obama/Biden, this will get me back to working for the democratic ticket.

by Jjc2008 2008-08-29 08:40AM | 0 recs
Its a draw

Both parties have insulted women in this election. Neither benefits and women lose most of all.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Zero foreign experience. This is an extremely weak pick.

by richochet 2008-08-29 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Forget foreign policy - what about the economy?

No other state -- and the rest of the nation -- does not have that 'reserve fund' to tap into.  

This isn't tiddlywinks, so I'm gonna throw Alaska under the bus here -- but it's a simple fact of the matter that one more or less gets 'paid' to live in Alaska.   That doesn't mean there aren't Alaskans that struggle economically... that doesn't mean they don't face challenges...

But facts are facts - you get a economic headstart in Alaska that exists nowhere else.

This makes even more naked McCain's deficit on economic policy.

by zonk 2008-08-29 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I for one would not mind getting paid to live in California. It sucks! Traffic. Smog. Super high cost of living. No jobs. BMWs everywhere,.

by dMarx 2008-08-29 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

This not a game changer. It's a hail mary.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 07:51AM | 0 recs

A Hail Mary is, by definition, a gamechanger.  You either score or you lose.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-29 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Uh

A Hail Mary is only a game changer if it works.

Otherwise, the game lurches on to its predetermined conclusion.

This is a "potential" game changer.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Uh

Hail mary is only thrown when you still have a CHANCE of winning.  If you are down by more than 7-10 points in a game you don't even BOTHER to throw a hail.  

The fact that Obama let McSame get close enough in our political climate to allow McSame to entertain throwing a Hail Mary is depressing.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Uh

"Longshot" fits that same definition.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:18AM | 0 recs
Good god, stop saying hail mary
how long do you think it will take PUMAs and 'independent' women to take that as an insult? If a 44 year old man can do the VP job, so can a woman. Attack her on her record (what their is of it), her positions and her possible corruption, but for pete's sake, skip the hail mary crap.
by linc 2008-08-29 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

Y'know what? You're exactly right.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

I've read post after post saying in no uncertain terms she was picked purely for her sex to pander to women . . .

. . . do any of you really know her views, heard her speak, know her track record (apart from what you've googled in the last hour?)

To dismiss her out of hand as a pick because she's a woman is crap.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

But it's true.  And yes, we've known who she is for a while - intrade has had odds on her for months.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

So you know her because intrade had one factoid on her - VP odds in the low single digits for the past few months.

Those who spout this "she's picked because she's a woman" jeopardize the support of people we will need in November.  

If you hear Obama's team deliver that line . . . that'll mean they've jumped the shark and we'll be in trouble.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

creationist, anti-Roe, Gov for a year and a half, pro-oil... umm in the midst of a corruption scandal, popular in AK, unknown elsewhere, a bit of a lightweight, and female.

You tell me which one stands out as different from so many other Republicans?

She is not "dismissed" because she is female, she is dismissed because her record sucks, and the pick just screams of tokenism and an attempt to divide the Dem party.

Where are the cries of "no woman but Hillary"?

by notedgeways 2008-08-29 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

We should definitely make and issue that Palin is not ready to be President as she has been Senator of Alaska for less than one term! And has no foreign policy experience.

by dMarx 2008-08-29 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

and is anti-choice, anti0gay, pro fundamentalist, hunts wolves from helicopters, an EPA nightmare, abuses her office to punish state employees, knowingly hired a suspected sex offender to Public Safety office....

yeah indeed

by notedgeways 2008-08-29 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

TALKLEFT PUMAs love it.  But then again, TALKLEFT has been a hatefest site for months.

I do hope that they open their eyes soon and realize they are being played.   OK, so he chose a woman, but give me a break, this was not the best woman the GOP had to offer.

What about Snowe and Collins, or Hutchison or even Dole or Whitman?  

This was purely a desperation move trying to pick a woman.  And one who has less experience than Geraldine Ferraro did in 1984.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

I usually count on them to be marginally smarter than the folks at alegre's failbox.  Alas, this seems not to be the case.

by username 2008-08-29 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

And how long do you think it will take women to realize that McCain just passed up the more experinced Hutchinson, for the younger less experienced newer model?

by venician 2008-08-29 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

Hutchinson would have been a good pick for McCain.

(Not necessarily for the country, but that's another subject.)

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

You're right let's just pick all the most experienced politicians for President & VP there is an old councilwoman in Petaluma, nurse in World War I that old man McCain should have picked.

You indicate that you have clue why women support the politicians they support.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

Because, you know, all women vote for the same people for the same reasons.  They're cool like that.

by username 2008-08-29 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Good god, stop saying hail mary

What the hell are you talking about?  How does the phrase "hail mary" have anything to do with age or gender?  A hail mary is simply an action with a big payoff but a small chance of success, a desperate move.  It's an analogy to a football play.

As for the PUMAs, even alegre isn't buying this yet -- only the NoQuarterites are that dumb.

by username 2008-08-29 08:29AM | 0 recs
We should withhold judgment

We've all been kicking around Palin, just like the right wing...

But - unless I've missed it - neither we nor the right have any Alaskan politics experts blogging away.

She looks great on political junkie paper...

But now - she's going to be thrust into a national race.  She's going to be running in a nation that is nowhere near as deeply red as Alaska.  

And let's not forget -- Alaska has a revenue stream that no other state has.  Alaskan economics are fundamentally different from United States economics for the simple reason that the other 49 states don't have a boatload of oil money coming in... none of the other 49 state residents can count on a rather fat check arriving based on their state residency.

How in the world does she help McCain on the economy?  

by zonk 2008-08-29 07:53AM | 0 recs

Here's the link to the ad with Ted Stevens endorsing palin.

From Ambinder who notes it will certainly be deleted as soon as the campaign clues in.    I'm waiting a long time for this file to arrive so maybe it's already been "cleansed". tevens.MOV

by January 20 2008-08-29 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Palin plays hockey....she is awesome.

by gunner 2008-08-29 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!


Have you seen her play?

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

hockey sucks

by slynch 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

This proves once and for all that John McCain's talk about being more willing to win a war than lose an election is just bullshit.

It is completely, wholly, an ELECTORAL PICK. Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't that seem like that's going to bite him in the ass in the long run?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 07:54AM | 0 recs
Way to go Jerome!

Never applaud anything Democrats do and then praise Republicans on their "bold" VP pick.

by jkfp2004 2008-08-29 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

Not a word about the greatest speech in a generation.

Can we expect the party switch announcement many time now?

by Obama44 2008-08-29 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

Not a word about the greatest speech in a generation?

You can be from the left NAD not throw bullshit like that.

by TaiChiMaster 2008-08-29 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

I looked for the Armstrong diary or comment praising Obama's speech. Maybe you can link us to it.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

Greatest speech in a generation?

If you are talking about last night you need to lay off the drugs.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

No doubt.  Jerome really tries hard to drag this place down.

by deepee 2008-08-29 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Way to go Jerome!

Do not troll rate (rating as 1) another user's comment unless it is a comment that is an attack on another user.

I wish you guys would give it a rest. Make your case for or against this choice, skip the attacks on the rest of the posters here.

by souvarine 2008-08-29 08:14AM | 0 recs
Well it looks like, McCain is making a strategic

choice. He with this pick, is trying to make a run for the votes of some of the independent women and disaffected HRC women supporters. Palin who have a strong anti-choice record, thus he is not risking the support of his rightwing extremes. I did suspect McCain would be going for a woman VP nominee which in this election, if it remains close, might become an important factor. On the other hand Palin comes with the baggage, of getting investigated currently which can blow up right in the Republicans' face in coming months. Her anti-choice, pro-creationist positions are not really the right ingredients to ensnare progressive and moderate women support from Obama.

by louisprandtl 2008-08-29 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Well it looks like, McCain is making a strateg

Should have picked Hutchinson if he was going in this direction.

A woman with experience would have looked less like a pure political play.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:04AM | 0 recs
You're right Hutchinson would have been the better

choice. And she might have been able to blur
some of the extreme anti woman views that Republicans project, thus bringing some of the independents into the fold. But Palin is young and energetic, so that can deflect that age question regarding McCain. However, I think Hutchinson wants to run for Texas Governor.

And everything is a pure political play. If Democrats didn't had a long hard fought primary or HRC did not run to begin with, I doubt McCain would be picking a Woman VP nominee..

by louisprandtl 2008-08-29 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Well it looks like, McCain is making a strateg

I think KBH could've put it away for him, honestly.

by ragekage 2008-08-29 08:12AM | 0 recs
You're right...McCain might curse himself
later for that...However that would have made
4 Senators at the top tickets...Wow...
by louisprandtl 2008-08-29 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Well it looks like, McCain is making a strateg


by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Well it looks like, McCain is making a strateg

KBH was my biggest fear. McCain's main argument against Obama, was experience.

I'm not saying we should ride Palin on not having experience, McCain's attacks are Obama for lack of experience seem hollow now.

This was a calculated political move to simply blunt the effect of Obama's historic speech. The novelty will wear off soon.

I imagine that a lot of GOP big wigs are going nuts right now.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I honestly thought McCain would of made the safe pick of Pawlenty.

The experience question will come up. Sure, on paper Palin has more experience than Oabam and she can lay claim as an ethics czar, but I honestly don't know how this will work. She is very popular and ran against Murkowski in 2006. She will likely excite the Republican base and may even turnout Republican women.

I will say, issues aside, I like Palin and I congratulate her.

by RJEvans 2008-08-29 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

How on paper does she have more experience than Obama?  Why do people keep saying that?  She's served about 1/20th the constituents for 1/2 the time.  

It's not a rhetorical question - I honestly don't get it.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

According to standard NoQuarter rules, I think you have to multiply number of years served by number of X chromosomes, then add a +5 "not Obama" bonus and subtract a -2 "not Our Girl" penalty.  It's kind of like AD&D, but the rules are less straightforward.

by username 2008-08-29 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

She doesn't; It's pure bullshit.  A year of gubernatorial experience in the third least populous state is about as much executive experience as Obama's presidency on the Harvard Law Review.  

The fact that her only other executive experience is a village mayor is almost more damning than if she were elected on celebrity like Schwarzenegger.

John McCain is more likely to die in office than any other nominee in recent memory.  Palin as leader of the free world is a truly terrifying prospect.  

by semiquaver 2008-08-29 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

She is a governor he is a senator.

Traditionally governor>senator.

She has 2 years at the national level as governor he has 2 as senator.

His "experience" as a state senator is BS and no presidential candidate in memory has sited experience at the state senator level in a campaign for the whitehouse.

Her lack of experience makes his lack of experience an issue.

He can't raise it and all his supporters who do only weaken him in the process...

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Sarah Palin

Governor - 2006-present
Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission - 2003-2004
Mayor of Wasilla - 1996-2002
City Councilman - 1992-1996

Barack Obama

Senator - 2005-present
Illinois Senate - 1997-2004

Yeah, I understand she represented a small constituency, but some could argue it is what you do and how you do it in office. Palin has more experience ON PAPER. Palin has a very compelling story that she entered politics to fight corruption and renew ethics and arguably that is what she did (with the exception of Troopergate.

by RJEvans 2008-08-29 08:53AM | 0 recs
Good thing I have plenty

of popcorn - that VP debate is going to be like watching Mike Tyson knocking out Michael Spinks lol

by Jon Niola 2008-08-29 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Hutchinson would have me throwing up right now. Palin not so much.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

You should be. She's just Hutchinson with a face lift.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Hutchinson serves on the Armed Services Committee. She is conservative but not batshit crazy like Palin.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I have never heard any specific beef that women voters have with KBH. She would have been a much better choice.

Romney or Lieberman would have been disasters. KBH was always my biggest fear, just as Joe Biden was the GOP's biggest fear.

Plus, the idea that Palin is going to somehow pull in independents is unfounded. She an arch-conservative pro-lifer, which is the opposite of what independents want to see after 8 years of Bush.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I work at a place loaded down with independent male voters.... every single one of them is dismayed by the Palin choice.

by IMind 2008-08-29 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Dismayed in what sense?  Like they don't like her, or they like Obama and think this is a smart pick for McCain?

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I don't know his coworkers, but if I were to guess it's probably that identity politics doesn't play as Jerome imagines amongst indies and conservatives.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Obama has been leading McCain handily amongst owmen. That will not change because of this pick because of Palin's record on abortion.

Where Obama was having trouble was among male voters. Sexism, like racism, is still alive and well in this country.

Plenty of men who were uneasy about Obama's race will will feel just as uneasy about Palin's sex.

IMO, after the hype dies down, this will be a gift to Obama. Liberal women have always been the most staunch supporters of the Democratic party.

I hope that Democrats who were on the post about Obama will listen to Hillary's very pursuasive warning about voting for McCain.

Hillary said this election was not about her, but about her values. Sarah Palin's values coudnt be more different than hers.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

What is McCain is purposefully taking the experience card off the table and putting the ethics card in full play?

by RJEvans 2008-08-29 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!


I suddenly feel pretty good about Florida.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-29 08:01AM | 0 recs

I spent a month in Alaska earlier this year. Palin is a very good politician; she should not be underestimated as a campaigner, and her language tends to the punchy, concrete. I am unhappy with this choice because I think its a strong one.

by Zephyr Teachout 2008-08-29 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

"Strong choice" under investigation?

Lawmakers will hire someone within a week to investigate whether Governor Sarah Palin abused her power in firing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. The legislative council approved 100,000 dollars for the investigation that will find out whether Palin was angry at Monegan for not firing an Alaska State Trooper who went through a messy divorce with Palin's sister.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

Well, more info on this is that the ex brother-in-law is alleged a drunk who beat Palin's sister.  So, yes, it was an abuse of power.  Is it the type of "scandal" that is likely to resonate with voters?  I personally don't think so.  It kinda sounds like she was trying to protect her sister, and even the public, from a bad man.  There are other reasons to oppose her, this "scandal" is probably not exactly political gold.

by milton333 2008-08-29 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

You stick up Republicans like a pro. But the fact that she is under investigation for abuse of power is what needs to be highlighted.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

Obama supporters are new to the game or have not done their research.

Biden: Palin you abused your power to have your sisters ex husband  fired

Palin:  He beat my sister.  Obama abused his power by having Rezko buy him a house with money that may have come from Auchi and indirectly from the Saddam regime itself.

Who you gonna pick in that exchange?

Really think America will side with Biden over miss alaska?

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 08:59AM | 0 recs
I agree

I'm glad the Republicans had the stones to nominate a woman.  Maybe this will be about ideology and policy rather than political expedience after all.

I notice we're not talking about Obama's acceptance speech, though.  

Score 1 for McCain; I'll admit he got us here.

That said, as others have said, it's a hail mary, and I've been a Packers fan long enough to know that even a hail mary from Brett Favre fails more often than it succeeds.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-29 08:02AM | 0 recs
Hail Mary

It will make guys like you who are deeply entrenched in DC politics wow'ed by the theatrics of the choice. But Geradine Ferraro comes to mind. As does Eliot Spitzer. America is better than this.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 08:03AM | 0 recs
Maverick Play - McCain's weakness

Obviously, McCain is trying to recapture his "maverick" image.  This is exactly where we need to attack him, his greatest strength.

Dems did a good job this week at that.  McCain does not have the 'temperament' to be president.  He is willing to make dangerous gambles with our nation.  Palin may be very accomplished and could be the 'best' choice, but how can we know?  She is a complete unknown.  Do we want a President McCain continuing to gamble with our future?

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-29 08:05AM | 0 recs

Old and inexperienced

by cspanjunkie 2008-08-29 08:05AM | 0 recs
Executive Experience

Of the four candidates now: Obama, McCain, Biden, and Palin, which has the most executive experience?

Sarah Palin

by oliver777 2008-08-29 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Executive Experience

The mayor of my hometown was in office since I was born. He had about 16 years of executive experience.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Executive Experience

Being Gov. of a state the size of Peoria for the past 18 months is not much to write about.  I look forward to her thoughts on...

Bush's economic plan
Outlawing ALL (not some, not late-term, not parental notice, ALL) abortion.

by cspanjunkie 2008-08-29 12:11PM | 0 recs

Watching MSNBC on this.  They had Maria Bartiromo playing up Palin's energy experience and boosting the case for drilling in ANWR. Maybe that plus gender are the forefront message for the GOP on this, and the background is dog wistle to the base with someone safe on rightwing cultural issues.

I say take the bait and go after the GOP for being big oil's party.  Dems can never, and should never, outflank the Repubs on wasting fossil fuels.  Last night Gore and to a lesser extent Obama defined the difference on climate change.  They can use Palin to reinforce the out of touch theme.

Furthermore, if there's any fire to the smoke around Palin siccing the state troopers on her rogue brother in law, it's great news . . . for Democrats.  

by ft 2008-08-29 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Yes but you also think Mark Warner is balls to the wall awesome and frankly he is more rightist than Obama and half the speaker. How HE is a map-changer after I saw him and learned more about him is a mystery to me.

Which just means I question your judgment, yet agree that Palin has the chance to be a dangerous pick presuming she evades the corruption scandal. It is also good for women, yet.

by MNPundit 2008-08-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I think it's a smart choice.  If he'd picked Pawlenty, the media would have snored.  Romney called McCain a liar in the campaign.  Huckleberry's a nut.  

This will give McCain's campaign the lion's share of media attention even after the convention.  It could win it for him.  Obama should tread carefully, and decisively.

by Drummond 2008-08-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Obama should tread carefully

Like Gore and Kerry did?

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Not at all.  He can attack.  He just better choose his word carefully.

by Drummond 2008-08-29 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Yeah, more light treading.   More great advice coming from RedState.   Palin is a woman so you can't attack her.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I'm as blue as they come.  McCain should remain the primary target.  Attack her for trying to get her brother-in-law fired, and for opposing abortion.  But don't be sexist, which is easy to do.

by Drummond 2008-08-29 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

As a former Minnesotan, I can tell you that Pawlenty's veto of a Transportation bill in the months prior to the I-35 bridge going down is disgusting.

by cameoanne 2008-08-30 10:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Just remember to tell everyone she's under investigation for abuse of power.  Do we really need another VP who abuses power?

Repeat and repeat and get her defined by that immediately!

by MtnFrost 2008-08-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Don't think you will hear a peep about that from Obama prior to Rezko opening up again.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

That is a loser of an issue. Leave it. There's plenty of reasons why Palin is unqualified without that.

If Obama were white but just as good a speaker, just as smart a man, I could absolutely see him being picked in this position. Palin? No chance.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Perhaps I'm wrong, I thought that sexism also meant picking someone younger and prettier over someone older and experienced.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:08AM | 0 recs
A shame that I will have to cast a vote to

defer the day when a woman is a top executive of this country.  But this is certainly not the right woman!

by activatedbybush 2008-08-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Favorite quote so far...

Kay Bailey Hutchison:

"I don't know too much about her (Palin), but maybe that's the good news."

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-29 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Favorite quote so far...



by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

While we're taking the "experience argument off the table, let's also get rid of "celebrity".....

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Palin was in Vogue, but that cover is a fake.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-08-29 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Who cares? Al Gore never said he invented the internet. Don't do McBush's work for him.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Calling out forged images isn't doing the Republicans work for them... it's attempting to maintain Democratic credibility.  I've seen numerous people posting those images and they are obvious fakes.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-08-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I'm glad someone cleared it up - it was obviously a fake, but when I googled it, sure enough, she was in Vogue.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Outside of the corruption ticking time bomb McCain now faces (the true sign its a hail mary), I forgot to mention that he also faces her position on abortion and women's issues (her being a woman may work with men so they will ignore this, but not with other women) which will bring any disaffected Clinton voters back. There is also the fact that gender identity politics doesn't play well with conservatives and independent as it does with us. I am sure of one thing- this is a short term move , bu tlong term, I just don't see how she helps- maybe you can give us a bit more than your usual here.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Well, for one thing it runs smack into the gender taboo of a younger, "prettier", less experienced woman (Palin) substituting an older, smarter, more experienced one (Clinton).

Debbie Wasserman-Schulz got off a great line: I know Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

That's why this is also a ticking time bomb for McCain. Essentially he has to play a base message against identity politics that may interest indie women without either catching wind to what he is doing.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Biden is not Hillary either.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Biden wasn't choosen to replace Hillary. Pallin is. The question you have to ask yourself is are you that easy?

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

No offense Jerome, but this is a media pick.  It's supposed to impress you.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

And lost amidst the concern is the fact that voters will be actually choosing between Obama and McLame.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!
He looks good... and she's a game changer.
What a mistake to pass on Hillary Clinton as VP.
by libertarian25 2008-08-29 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

It was determined upthread that "gamechanger" actually means "longshot."

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

This was probably one of the best picks in a sea of bad possible ones.  So, score one for McCain.  HOWEVER, we shouldn't forget that misogyny historically is arguably a stronger force than racism.  And there's a lot of both in the Republican party.  All those folks who wouldn't vote for Hillary because she was a woman are likely to be turned off by a woman vp pick by McCain.  

Personally, I think this will divide the Republicans.  I'm not saying it should (certainly not), but all those Republicans who believe a woman's place is in the home (and there are a lot of these in the Christian community and in the south) will be turned off.

by slynch 2008-08-29 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I think people are quite comfortable with women in secondary roles - even misogynists.  I would expect that quite a few racists and misogynists voted for Hillary Clinton because they just imagined that they were really voting for Bill.  This is doubly true here, because McCain is actually going to be running the show.  Archie Bunker doesn't give a fuck who the VP is.

The only people who are turned off by this pick are going to be people who see it as a pander.  

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

maybe.  I'll have to think about that a bit.  Growing up in the south in the Bible Belt, however, I really think a lot of conservative Christians will be turned off, just as they would have been with a pro-choice pick.  I don't know if it's enough to swing any southern states to Obama, but we'll see.  I just don't think it's a clear positive pick for McCain (and, as I said, I'm not sure he really had one to make)

by slynch 2008-08-29 08:55AM | 0 recs

"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency.  Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same," said Bill Burton, Obama Campaign Spokesman.

by January 20 2008-08-29 08:32AM | 0 recs

Damn.  Looks like it caught them off guard.

There's a definite right way to go about this - I hope they figure it out.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:39AM | 0 recs

Obama campaign talking about lack of experience as a vice the day after their candidate argued lack of experience is a virtue is not exactly sending a clear message.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:10AM | 0 recs

Let the spin begin!

Andrea Mitchell: "The [McCain] campaign has just given up the experience argument."

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Wingnuts are responding with praise all around.   They like this lady it appears.

I think it furthers his creds as a maverick, she is a D.C. "outsider."

Her background story is very good.  School teacher / scretary parents, highschool hoops player, beauty queen, blah blah blah.  

McCain has shown that if you let him hand around, if you give him an opening, he'll exploit it.  He has hung around, stayed close in the polls, managed a very good VP rollout, and looks to have a shot at closing the gap among women.

Like you said, this is a gamechanger.

I can't help but think that we could have had McCain painted as half insane, too old by half, crazed warmonger 2 months ago and had him down by 15.   We've let him hang around.   If another Democrat starts off a speech with the usual "I have a deep respect for Senator McCain's service to this country" I am going too friggin PUKE.  Nuke this guy.

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-29 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

If you have followed Politics for decades McCain has been there for us many many times.

The people who know that and who are democrats will not tolerate painting him as a quack.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Palin speaking now. Did McGimmick manage to fill the hall? The crowd sounds less than enthusiatic during the pauses for applause.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Jerome, do you even read your own website anymore?

She is Spiro Agnew and Geraldine Ferraro rolled into one.  

This is ridiculous.  I know you're still aching over  Hillary but GET OVER IT MAN! Even you have to admit (as Wolfowitz did last night) that Hillary wouldn't have filled a stadium.  

by Bob Beard 2008-08-29 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

There's no need to bring Hillary into this. She did a great job at the convention even if a few of her supporters didn't get the memo.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Sexism in the Dem party has to end

or the party will keep losing for years to come.

Condescending remarks about Ferraro, Clinton and other Dem women leaders are not only wrong, they show a lack of good judgement.

It must cease or we will continue to find ourselves at a disadvantage.  Rampant sexism serves no useful purpose. None.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Sexism in the Dem party has to end

I said Spiro Agnew (due to experience) and Ferraro (due to some shady ethical issues)-- it has nothing to do with gender.

As a Kansan, I wanted Obama to pick Sebelius.  

by Bob Beard 2008-08-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
One positive thing about Palin

Finally, we will have a vice-president (not matter who wins) who will have a personal stake in Iraq.

The war may finally reach close to ones in power.

by ann0nymous 2008-08-29 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: One positive thing about Palin

You mean other than Biden, of course, but yes, that's one of the bright spots of her resume.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: One positive thing about Palin

Sorry, didn't notice "no matter who wins".

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: One positive thing about Palin

Actually, Biden's son, Beau, is going to Iraq with his National Guard unit.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Wow, Palin has PTA experience?!

I'm going to have to rethink this Obama thing now.

by mydoubled 2008-08-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I wonder about the optics of a larger-than-life VP nominee who has been in the Senate for decades beating up a pretty, simple, down-home girl like Palin in the debates?  Yeah, she's inexperienced as hell and no one knows who she is, but nothing creates stardom like a damsel in distress.  Biden's going to have to watch it in the debates.  If he tore into the animatronic Romney or the mulletted Pawlenty, everyone would praise him.  But you don't beat up on girls.  At least not pretty ones.  That's got to work into their equation somewhere.  The question now is whether Biden can dial back his larger-than-life personality, which seems constantly stuck on eleven, to maybe seven or eight and still be effective.

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Funny think is Hillary can be an attack dog at level 1 or level 11.

Can Biden be an attack dog at level 1?

Yet another aspect where Hillary is better suited.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:16AM | 0 recs
I just checked out

alegre's and TD's websites. They are HAPPY for this choice.

TD has changed her site name to be "puma for mccain-palin"

puma's need to be taken down.

by kevin22262 2008-08-29 08:44AM | 0 recs
Was There a Speech In Denver Last Night?
"Although we weren't able to shatter this highest, hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you, it's got about 18 million cracks in it, and the light is shining through like never before." - Hillary Clinton
June 7, 2008
by oliver777 2008-08-29 08:45AM | 0 recs
The GOP doesn't have a glass ceiling

and as corrupt, destructive and incompetent as they are, they've always been better than Dems at advancing women to higher office.

Its a no-brainer, and I can't understand why my own party has been so stupid.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The GOP doesn't have a glass ceiling
Geraldine Ferraro
Janet Reno
Madeline Albright
Janet Napalitano
Where are Democrats so bad about nominating?   Hillary said were you in this for HER or for what she stood FOR.
I guess we know your answer.
by gavoter 2008-08-29 08:54AM | 0 recs
Executive Office Glass Ceiling

My apologies. I was unaware that some people would need that clarification. <sarcasm>

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Executive Office Glass Ceiling

Your post still doesn't make any sense.  Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebelius, Jenifer Granholm, Kathleen Kennedy Townshend, and again, Geraldine Ferraro.  We have about five women for every one that the Republicans nominate.

They're even worse with African Americans though - there they don't even try: they put up tokens to reassure white voters, and it pisses black people off like crazy.  Clarence Thomas is practically a curse word.

Everyone I know is reacting to Palin the same way.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The GOP doesn't have a glass ceiling

"repubs have always been better at advancing women to higher office?"

What planet are you from? The Dems had VP candidate oh...OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO...Plus Clinton had the 1st women Secretary of State four years before bush nominated rice.

by helo 2008-08-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
Sorry, but they do have a better record

at every level of elected and public office.

Hard to swallow?  Sure.  But its a tough choice Dem men need to make - survival of our party or equality for women in the party.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 09:29AM | 0 recs
No one in Dem leadership saw this coming?

If true, they all need to resign.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: No one in Dem leadership saw this coming?

what difference would it have made if they knew or not!

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:25AM | 0 recs

They could have made different choices about their 2008 ticket.

They are either very ignorant or very stubborn.

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Just saw Palin speak at the rally in Ohio. She's a very uninspiring speaker. She's certainly no Hillary.

by Steve24 2008-08-29 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Whew, it's a good thing that she's not running against Hillary then or Hutchinson or any other woman

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 08:52AM | 0 recs
Palin speaks

I think the gender angle is a media red herring. It will get some buzz for McCain as a maverick more than it will pick off any true blue Hillary voters. It's safe for the base, she's a Christer in good standing.  Also it steps all over the post-convention coverage for Obama.

Her big policy claim is being an avid fan of drilling in ANWR and finishing off the polar bear so as t convert them to lighter fluid.  Gore and somewhat Obama laid down a difference on climate change and they should run with it against the fossil fuel party.

She's speaking right now. Comes off as the suburban mom. She and Todd are solid reproducers, that's a big point.  

Now going into her anti-corruption credentials, which is another selling point. The problem is that to make this story well known she'll have to admit the corrupt pols in Alaska were its leading Republicans, includng incumbent senator Ted Stevens.  In this frame, McCain/Palin are mavericks, but mavericks for a party that's rotten and are members of it.

Bigger audience cheers for the pipeline drilling stuff.

Real danger in making this about upsetting the status quo because the GOP is the status quo.  They were better off with don't trust change than with no really we're the change.

Clsing with the PUMA appeals. Audience having trouble whether to cheer or boo for Clinton. Will it work?

Hard not to think of al the other form not substance plays the Repubs have pulled on diversity over the years. If you liked the feminism of Sandra Day O'Connor and Condi Rice and the civil rights activism of Clarence Thomas and J.C. Watts.  This is your party.  You'll also like lite beer as a cure for alcoholism, and filtered cigarettes as a cure for smoking.

by ft 2008-08-29 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin speaks
She and Todd are solid reproducers, that's a big point.
Oh, this conversation's going downhill fast.
You'll also like lite beer as a cure for alcoholism, and filtered cigarettes as a cure for smoking.
by TCQuad 2008-08-29 08:55AM | 0 recs
Palin as natalist

I was shorthanding in that comment.  I meant that Palin's self presentation emphasized the size of their family and their fecundity.  And, I think that's being treated by Republicans as a big point in her favor--five, count em five kids and she kept having them right to now! These are the "natalists", the term that David Brooks and others have tried to use for fundamentalist Republicans who have bigger than average families.  For Brooks the bigger than 2.5. kids families are ones that "gosh darned it, just believe that children are God's blessing so much that they won't truck with birth control and abortion."  There's a pro-life message there for faithful GOoPers, and a swing-voter symbol of a super-sized Soccer mom/NASCAR Dad family.

And yes, it is going downhill fast if  Republicans, and for that matter Dems, are really going to have the election be about whose candidate has the most wholesomest and awesomest of families.  If that's the theme for the next two months then wake me on Nov. 5.

by ft 2008-08-29 10:16AM | 0 recs
Sarah Palin just acknowledged Hillary Clinton!!!

In her speech, she Congratulates Senator Clinton for attempting to shatter the highest glass ceiling.

The Republicans in the audience applaud at Hillary's name.

Sarah Palin points out that she left 18 million cracks in the ceiling and she hopes to pick up some of them!!

Both Palin and McCain acknowledge the 88th anniversary of Women's right to vote!!

GAME CHANGER - I really think so!!!

by nikkid 2008-08-29 08:47AM | 0 recs
Sarah Palin just acknowledged Hillary

Disgusting.   this is blatent sexism and identity politics.     If the Hillary supporters go for this, than all my worst fears about them would be true.

by gavoter 2008-08-29 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Sarah Palin just acknowledged Hillary

Your worst fear being that they don't take kindly to having the choice of the majority of the party cast aside, delegated to bystander, called racist, denied the runner's up position.....

Yes your worst fears are going to be realized.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

She invoked Hillary and the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling. Then she said that women aren't done yet but can shatter the glass ceiling in November.

They aren't going to make this a campaign for women. They are going to make this a call to arms for women.

We are in trouble, make no mistake about it people.

by JDF 2008-08-29 08:48AM | 0 recs
And Dem women leaders can't do much

Bottom line, they're not on the ticket.

They can speak out and appeal to rank and file Dem women and independent voters, but the Obama campaign can't escape the fact that they don't have a woman on the ticket.

The appeals of Clinton and others won't carry the same weight since they've been passed over.  What are they going to say? "My party passed me over twice, as a presidential and vice-presidential candidate, but they still care about women voters"?

by Betsy McCall 2008-08-29 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

There's an alarmingly hysteric quality in her speaking manner.

 On paper, she was quite a threat, but I think she will lose McCain a lot of votes.

by Andrys 2008-08-29 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Of course, there will be the extreme PUMAs who vote for her, but don't fret.  PUMAs wanted not just any woman, they wanted Hillary.  They want a woman who was qualified and would campaign her way to the office, not get there by default and once there not know where the hell Georgia was.  

BTW, Hillary isn't going to let this woman use her history making run to call women to arms.  This is the best thing really for anyone who doubted Clinton would campaign, b/c she is going to make this her own personal cause not to let this governor of 10 get into one of the highest positions of power.

by venavena 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Hillary isn't in this race.

I reject the attempts to try and lay this responsibility at Hillary's feet.

Obama is a big boy now.

Let him stand at the big boy table and be responsible for his own actions.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

No one is laying this at Hillary's feet.  Where you got that from, I haven't the slightest clue.  All I know, is she isn't going to want this woman trying to use her run to gain a position.  

by venavena 2008-08-29 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

stop the blackmail now.

This is Obama's fight.  He can't stay at the kiddie table and expect the party elders to fight this for him.

He needs to be the man and do it himself.

And we need to be men and women and admit that if he can't he was a poor pick for nominee.

Leave Hillary's good name alone.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

What are you talking about?  You're just making this shit up as you go.

No one is blackmailing anyone.

Hillary's historic run is going to be used by the Republicans to gain votes.  While Obama is going to do everything he can to put a stop to that, Hillary herself may want to step up and keep this woman from using her legacy to propel herself into the VP spot.

It's obvious you're too dense to get that.

by venavena 2008-08-29 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

She may want to and she may not.

Thinking she is your own personal puppet is what I am talking about.

It stops now.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Yeah, I really pull all the strings when it comes to Hillary Clinton. (rolls eyes)

It never stops.  Get used to it.

by venavena 2008-08-29 03:16PM | 0 recs
Would love to know

why I got HR'd for this Obama44.

You and I agree on virtually everything and I consider you to be a reasonable poster. So let me just say this. I want an explanation/apology for the HR.

Thank you.

by JDF 2008-08-29 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin?

McCain likes to say that the VP's only job is to inquire as to the health of the president every day.

My God, he's going to make her wear one of those suggestive "naughty nurse" outfits for her daily inquiries!

by admiralnaismith 2008-08-29 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin?

That's so wrong. It's soooo wrong.

by TCQuad 2008-08-29 08:53AM | 0 recs
Hillary needs to issue a statement

Nothing will throw this pick back in McCain's face than a strong statement from Hillary Clinton blasting this pick. Charles Schumer, arguably Clinton's biggest ally, has already made a tough statement.

But if Hillary lays into Palin, she will send a message that this VP pick is nothing more than a trojan horse and is a disaster for women's issues.

by elrod 2008-08-29 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to issue a statement

Obama needs to stop trying to win on Hillary's coattails

Hillary won't be in the oval office to save him later he needs to stand on his own now.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to issue a statement

I don't want to get involved in what is obviously some sort of long-standing ratings war here.  But, this is a point, which should not be overlooked by virtue of whatever is the issue people have with the poster.  

Hillary was not nominated by our party for president.  She was not selected for VP.  The idea that she owes the people who shut her out of this process some extraordinary, heroic effort to counteract the obvious effect that follows from her exclusion (the Repubs' naked pander to women) is, frankly, horsehit.  This is not her mess to clean up.  Not a problem that she created.  Why does Hillary have to come out forcefully against Palin?  Why does she have to agree to be used by a Dem party that found no use for her as a presidential candidate, in what is, in fact, another pander?  Agree to be the token female who speaks up against another female candidate?  Bullshit.  

If the all-male Dem ticket wants to counter the effect of "game changing" Palin, they need to do it without making a gendered plea from Hillary.  She is not a symbol to be manipulated to pander right back at McCain.  No other defeated candidate has been called on to be the frontline warrior for the victor this way, denounced by the victor for playing the gender card and then expected to use that gender as a weapon against the Repubs.

by milton333 2008-08-29 10:30AM | 0 recs

I agree completely that asking HRC to slam Palin is like asking [people of color/queers/et al.] to do all the work on [racism/homophobia/etc.]

Also have to say that Biden does not have the best record on women (remember how he treated Anita Hill?  I do), but he's been working to improve it.

Wouldn't be surprised if HRC wants to slam Palin, and if so, I can't wait for it--she'll kick Governor Wolfsniper*'s @$$.

Fortunately, Obama's strong call for equal pay for equal work and strong support for reproductive rights--not to mention support for working people who are struggling to make ends meet--make him the clear favorite for women AND men AND every other species on the planet.  

* killing wolf pups and shooting endangered species from aircraft kind of gets in the way of the attempted warm smiley hockey mom image.  

by chiefscribe 2008-08-29 11:59AM | 0 recs
Do you have references

for the wolf hunting thing, or is that a guess?

Those sorts of issues could be used against her.

I disagree on the HRC thing, though.  A team asks the best player to do whatever task, and no-one is in a better position to take on Palin than Sen. Clinton.  Both because she as an individual can best talk to the folks who could be swayed by Palin, and because she is immune to any fabricated charges of sexism.


by chrisblask 2008-08-29 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I am distinctly underwhelmed by her speaking style and experience. I don't think that this is going to be a good selection for McCain. First of all, given McCain's age, the readiness of his VP will be especially scrutinized. I just don't get the vibe from her that she is going to be able to convince people that she is prepared to be a heartbeat from the Presidency.

Of course, she could grow into it and it is certainly a bold choice from the perspective of changing the status quo of the race. I don't think that the play for Hillary's voters is going to work though.

by wasder 2008-08-29 08:54AM | 0 recs
Great family values

Go ahead and leave a six-month old Down's baby at home so you can travel around and tell everyone else what a family is supposed to look like how we should raise our kids.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Great family values

Do you have any idea how sexist this post sounds?

by souvarine 2008-08-29 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Great family values

I would even say this to a man.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Great family values

I think it is a valid point, and not sexist.   Who takes care of the baby now?   A special needs baby?

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Great family values

Her husband Todd.

by souvarine 2008-08-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Great family values

Yeah, her husband Todd, who has 4 other kids to watch and a union job to keep ... and snowmobiles to race ... get serious.

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

WTF happened to "Country First?"  The idea that McCain thinks that in the event something happens to him, this woman would be capable of taking on the responsibility of tending to 300+ million Americans?  I'm honestly scared for us, if they manage to get in office.

Also, Obama, Schumer, and Emanuel have called Palin and McCain out.  It's great.  Rove was actually offended and called it petty.  Yay for us.

by venavena 2008-08-29 08:56AM | 0 recs

Congrats to POW McCain.   I don't think there was a possible pick that he could have chosen to make him look even older!   The two of them on stage together look comical.

by Monkei 2008-08-29 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Effective speech I think. McCain is not going for the pro-choice vote, women's issues have more than one dimension. This pick probably locks up the evangelical base for him. Palin made a direct, in your face speech and explicitly asked for the votes of women.

I admire Obama's stagecraft and I think he used the convention well to unite Democrats and transition to the general election. But McCain is giving him a run for his money, Palin did not come off as a lightweight just now.

by souvarine 2008-08-29 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I don't know any indie women or conservatives who will see this choice as a good one based on gender. Unless the argument is she's got boobs, therefore she's for gender equality. That may work for a few days, but not over the course of 10 weeks.

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
odd couple

they look ridiculous together. he's almost old enough to be her grandfather.

I mean think about it. Is Sarah Palin even qualified to hold a high cabinet post? Maybe Sec. of Education or Transportation. But vice-president? Or president?

This pick will make a big splash, but will not wear well over time.

by existenz 2008-08-29 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: odd couple

She is more qualified than Obama.

This argument is a dead end for Obama.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:30AM | 0 recs
Palin? It's All About Sen. Stevens

Palin is a terrible pick - it undermines McCain's chief argument against Obama on experience.  It took Democrats 18 months to become comfortable with Obama's relative inexperience, and the Republicans think that 60 days with Palin is sufficient.  

This is the typical hamfisted way that Republicans do diversity - what the hell is a "feminist for life" anyway.  I suspect most women will be as excited about this pick as blacks were about Clarence Thomas' nomination for Supreme Court.  

At the end of the day,  I think this loses McCain the presidency while saving Sen. Stevens (because Palin's selection will drive up Rep. participation in Nov).  As a Democrat and proud American I am happy with that trade off.  

by ruskin 2008-08-29 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Tailor made for Hillary

I was no Hillary supporter during the primary season, but this pick is tailor made for her to go after McCain and his anti-woman record.

I live in Ohio and had to watch as this woman, an obvious lightweight, stumbled through her alleged speech bereft of any substance other than kissing McCain's wrinkly ol' ass.

by LtWorf 2008-08-29 09:02AM | 0 recs
Agreed - I also felt that if he picked a woman

(I thought Kay Bailey H was going to be the pick) that it would really raise the stakes for Hillary to be a tough and compelling surrogate for Obama.

by activatedbybush 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Agreed - I also felt that if he picked a woman

All this talk about how Hillary is needed to save Obama's bacon and yet she isn't the VP.

Whats up with that?

Surely Biden is a better choice to stand up for Obama no?

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Everyone has a role to play - including you

by activatedbybush 2008-08-29 10:37AM | 0 recs

Can you imagine how Mittens and Pawlenty and JoeMomentum must feel to be passed over by a former Mayor of a city of 8000 people ...

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Imagine

Hutchinson sounded like she'll poison her if given the opportunity.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

MSNBC calls Palin a "bold" choice. We should call it a "risky" choice that fits McDesperate's reputation as a drunken gambler.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Dude the fear is clear.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

What makes me really mad about this is all the sexist crap thrown at Hillary by Republicans will all disappear and they'll become holier than thou about this.

by liberalj 2008-08-29 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

If only Team Obama had resisted throwing the same crap.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Biden will clean her clock in the debate.  I can see the wingers frothing at the mouth:  but he wrote the violence against women act, and he's beating up on poor Sarah!
by Bob Beard 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Well, locals seem to love her.  Somebody (a self-described non-Republican) on a non-political forum described her like this:

She helped kill off Bridge to Nowhere, is big time anti-corruption, she's building the natural gas pipeline with a good amount of state funds, she's pro-responsible oil drilling / pro-alternative energy... it looks like her upside is non-trivial.  If she can appeal to independents like this while still being firmly conservative on social issues, she could be a real threat.

But the potential downside is also huge.  She's totally green on the national stage.  She seriously undercuts a core part of McCain's experience message.  I guess this means McCain realized that his 90%+ Bush voting record was enough of a liability that he had to sacrifice the experience argument to counteract it.

by randomscientist 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I was more worried about Pawlenty putting MN in play.

by Bob Beard 2008-08-29 09:07AM | 0 recs
in the end

it still comes down to Obama vs McCain ... there is no one McCain can pick to overcome that deficit.

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:08AM | 0 recs
Goddamn. The more I look.

That crazy oldman has made a pretty savvy political move.

The list we've heard for ever was a minefield that threatened to make conervatards flee.  Palin is very well liked by the right and it appears McCain will have a chance to re-unite his party next week.

McCain the "hugger" (Bush hugger) is trying to make people think he is a maverick, regardless of facts.   He goes and pulls a surprise pick who is a D.C. outsider to boot.

Palin's inexperience may actually serve as a platform for Republicans to attack Obama for lack of experience.  Palin's and Obama's tenure in government service, both locally and nationally is similar.   Do we call her inexperienced without leaving our own chins open for a big GOP counterpunch on comparing the resumes?

McCain wants to take full advantage of women still stinging from the double whammy of a Clinton loss, Clinton not being the V.P.   As some have pointed out Palin is a women.

McCain needs to close the gap with all women, not just Clinton women.  Again, Palin is a women.

McCain managed his roll out perfectly.  There was not a two day stakeout of the obvious pick to ruin the surprise.   McCain managed to stay in the news cycle on Obama's big day, and he managed to take over the news cycle a mere 12 hours after Obama left the stage in Denver.

As I said in another post.   You can't let McCain hand around and give him 2nd and 3rd chances to get you.  He showed it in the primaries.   You have to beat this guy early and often.  My two cents if we have to do to him what the GOP has done to us in the past.  Make him unacceptable to voters.   Slander him, attack him, make him the butt of jokes. Whatever.  

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-29 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Goddamn. The more I look.

If you look at VP choice as their "record" with regards to presidential actions I would have to give advantage to McCain.

Obama leaving Hillary out in the cold was dumb dumb dumb.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

It's disturbing to me that the Obama campaign immediately came out and criticized McCain for not picking someone with foreign policy experience. A little bit of mindfulness about glass houses is in order.

by bowiegeek 2008-08-29 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Team Obama are hacks.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

If Obama's team are hacks, I guess we all know whose team was even hackier.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

After all the heat Obama has taken from McCain over experience and you don't think Obama's not going to come out blazing against that argument.

You are probably one of those people who thought Obama wasn't attacking McCain ENOUGH.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

I'm actually one of those people who are worried about the kind of arrogance that got Bush elected. I agree with most of Obama's policies, but I don't agree with bullshit like criticizing Palin for being  inexperienced on foreign policy when last I checked Obama has no basis whatsoever to be judgmental in that regard.

by bowiegeek 2008-08-29 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

i actually found some merit in mccains attacks about experience.

obama has basis to be judgmental when thats how he has been been judged from the get go.

i look forward to the obama campaign hitting mccain hard for his complete lack of judgement on this pandering choice for VP.

i am puzzled however as to why mccain gave up an argument that seemed to be working for him.

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Are you saying someone who has never been to Europe in his adult life before 2006 and whose major foreign policy contribution to date has been authoring an AIDS bill honestly has a right to say that Sarah Palin is too inexperienced on foreign policy and a threat to the US as VP?

by bowiegeek 2008-08-29 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

 She is the perfect VP choice and will be the perfect VP. If you heard her VP speech you can tell she has a story to tell, and that story is AMERICA! She didn't have to hide anything about herself, like Obama. She runs a state! the only thing Obama run is up and down the basketball court! You heard first form me, if McCain serves only one term, Sarah Palin will be the first female president in the 1212 elections! The taste of victory is great! McCain & Palin 2008- NOW THAT'S A CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!!!

by jookie1234 2008-08-29 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

wow just when are those 1212 elections?

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

At first this will generate buzz. But this takes experience off the table. This is the only thing he had and he took it off the table. TWO    Years as governor and a mayor of a town with 5000 people a heartbeat away from President.

by NJDEM1 2008-08-29 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

In one quick decision ... McCain has made a pick that suddenly actually leaves the GOP with the most inexperienced ticket!

by Monkei 2008-08-29 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

What are you talking about.  She has more experience that all three candidates combined!!

She was a Mayor and a Governor.

Obama and Biden haven't been in charge of anything higher than a 7/11.

by Dadvocate123 2008-08-29 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

sarcasm? I hope so.

by NJDEM1 2008-08-29 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

sarcasm? I hope so.

by NJDEM1 2008-08-29 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

It's been said that this pick is "another powerful breakthrough for the political system."

Mondale picked Ferraro because he was behind and desperate. Mcdesperate has chosen Palin for the same reason. That's not another breakthrough.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 09:23AM | 0 recs
It achieves the immediate goal

of driving the buzz of the spectacular Obama speech out of the news cycle, or at least relegating it to secondary status.

Reaction should be thought out thought.  Any smack of sexism and insults play into GOP hands.  Attack her on the issues, follow the lead of Obama

by xenontab 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!
Are you kidding me? Minorities and women didn't fight so hard to prove that we are equals, to prove that when qualified, we are just as good as the next person, just so someone unqualified can come along and destroy what we've fought for.
This is a slap in the face to not just women, but all minorities.
by asian5280 2008-08-29 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin? Yikes!

Shorter Jerome Armstrong:

"This is really good news for John McCain!"

Let the spin begin!

by KoolJeffrey 2008-08-29 11:21AM | 0 recs


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