Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I spoke with a friend who was on the floor tonight and he said he overheard some Hillary delegates being interviewed and the money quote was:

"OK, I'm on board."

Also, be sure to check out your local blogs for coverage of your local delegations. Here's Lucas covering the California delegation:

This is a great mix of unification and reaching out to Clinton supporters who may be any measure of disaffected. She just finished and the crowd, at least here in California (I can't see or hear any further) is insane. Signs and standing ovation as far as I can see.

What local blogs are you reading?

Tags: DNCC (all tags)



Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

off topic but is ANYONE watching CNN right now with this puma lady?

this is the greatest interview ever!

by TruthMatters 2008-08-26 08:35PM | 0 recs
missed it

can you give a summary?

by kydoc2 2008-08-26 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

She gave a great speech and showed she has become a formidable force in her own right , in my opinion even larger than she went in as a candidate.

That said I don't think she holds the magic wand in bringing all of those who supported her on board , she would do her part and her best and its up to Obama to convince voters he is ready to lead in a time of war.

by lori 2008-08-26 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Agreed, she cannot deliver the votes to him and he must convince them.  But, she did two very important things.

1) She made the case to vote Democratic rather than Republican on the issues.

2) She told her supporters the issues were more important than the particular candidate.

IMO, it is fine to vote against Obama if you do not share his position on the issues or if you think he is too inexperienced to be President.  I don't agree with either of those things but those are honest reasons to vote against the man.  

This is not a PUMA thing.  I think there are about 60 PUMAs but there are a couple million Dems who aren't quite ready to get behind Obama. Doesn't make them PUMAs.  I just hope they look at the issues and realize Obama is far better than McCain.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-26 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

You are right in your assessment ...

Much of the commentary seemed to indicate that a lot of folks who supported her are irrational folks who are just hanging on to her and in some sort of mental trance .

It might just be that some of these folks especially those ticket splitters in conservative/rural areas do have a genuine skepticism of Obama in terms of his ability to lead the nation in times of war and in the age of terrorism.

Hillary Clinton would do her best for Obama , but folks might be expecting a little too much from her in terms of delivering those type of voters to Obama.

I have no doubt there would be some voters who are still angry about how she was treated and are reluctant to back obama for that reason , those are the ones that I suspect she can help bring back into the fold , however i think a significant portion of those holding back are not doing it out of anger at the electoral process during the primary but out of real concerns about his experience , qualifications and leadership abilities , those are the ones Obama has to convince himself .

I don't think its fair to burden Hillary Rodham Clinton with a task she may not be able to achieve...

by lori 2008-08-26 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I hope after tonight that folks no longer burden her with expectations of delivering votes.  I don't think she could have been much more clear in stating that BO shares her values and is the best choice for president.

I happen to think BO would be a better commander-in-chief, especially in time of war.  McCain is a hothead who jokes about bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran.  Don't want to start a thread on Obama vs McCain here.  Just think that Obama has a case to make that, as Biden put it, America needs more than a good soldier right now and needs a wise leader with sound judgement.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-26 09:28PM | 0 recs
She said what I needed to hear.

I have waited 8 years to get a Democrat in the WH.  I didn't know who the Democrat was going to be and I didn't care.  I only knew that we couldn't take any more of the Republicans idea of governing.  Obama is the candidate the Democrats have chosen to lead the party.  I happen to think it's a good choice but if they had chosen someone I liked less, I would still be working just as hard to take back the country.  Some of our candidates are better than others but all are better than anything the Republicans have to offer.

And that's what Hillary said.  Good enough for me.

by GFORD 2008-08-26 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Here's the point I don't get -- now, mind you, I'm an Obama supporter, so obviously I think his credentials are pretty strong.

But let's take your three listed concerns:

Leadership Abilities: I'm not sure how there could be a concern here. Doesn't his campaign show outstanding leadership abilities? Seriously? Wouldn't the number of senior Democratic officials following his lead also count for something?

Qualifications: What exactly are the qualifications that he's missing. We all know the example of Lincoln, but for my money he's surely more qualified all around than W (low bar, I know). I'd argue he's equally as qualified as Bill Clinton was on the day he stepped into the White House (Clinton: more executive experience; Obama: more foreign policy and Washington experience; similar levels of state experience).

Experience: See above. Yes, his experience is less than McCain's, and somewhat less than Hillary's. It's better than W's (again, low bar), not meaningfully different than Bill's, and not too different from that of JFK.

Now those are the substantive responses, on the issues. But to me the bigger question is: let's say there's no question that Obama's inexperienced, McCain's experienced (I'm not really conceding that beyond purposes of argument). But let's say it for now.

So what?

Which is better: hope (there's that word) of something better, with the knowledge that maybe the candidate is a bit too inexperienced to really achieve our goals, or certainty that the candidate is experienced enough to thwart them all?

Or are you so worried about, say, a terrorist attack, or a world crisis, that you would say ok it's fine to put in the experienced guy, whose experience will let him get things done -- things like thwart health care reform, privatize social security, drag out the Iraq war, embroil us in new wars, preserve the Bush tax structure, continue to pummel unions, swing the Court to the right. And on, and on, and on.

See, to my way of thinking, experience and the ability to get things done is a HUGE negative when the guy with it opposes everything you stand for. Even if I thought Obama was likely to be ineffective and relatively useless (which I emphatically do not), that still strikes me as far better for us all then the effective guy who's going to do all the wrong things.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-08-26 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread
Gotta agree and add to this.
On Iraq, you can't get better judgement than this. o
He nailed EVERY problem we've had in Iraq BEFORE we went into the country.
Versus Mr. everything will be peachy, until it isn't, and then it will be peachy, until it isn't. And then it will take six months, until it takes four more years. And then I was for the surge so I've got good judgment.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I know Obama from the Illionis Senate, so I know more than the rhetoric. The soaring rhetoric is important, but at his core he's a hard-nosed, pragmatic bastard, whose only interest is in hard results.
We saw this in the primary when he out-worked Hillary on the ground. We saw this when the primary ended when he took control of the DNC in one week. And we'll see it as President.
Obama is used to not being taken seriously. Hillary made that mistake, and it cost her the nomination. McCain is making that mistake now, and it will cost him the presidency.
by EvilAsh 2008-08-27 12:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

And I find it very odd that state experience counts if you've been a governor, but not if you've been a state legislator.

by politicsmatters 2008-08-27 05:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I've been a state legislator (2 terms in North Dakota back in the 70s), so I have an inside view of this issue. I would never try to say that my experience as a state legislator matched or even came close to that of the governor.

by Not the only Dem in KS 2008-08-27 06:16AM | 0 recs
it's not rural and conservative voters

... other than Hispanics, Obama seemed to win the rural areas (check out kos, there was a map on there ages ago).

Oh, and except for Appalachia. Which is always skeptical of hope, and perhaps a trifle more culturally racist than other places.

Personally, I'm sure Hillary has done her full share, and will continue to do more than her full share. I don't ask from her miracles, just that hard-won dedication she has always shown.

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-27 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

there are a couple million Dems who aren't quite ready to get behind Obama.

Whatever the actual number, there are always those who don't vote for the candidate of their party. I don't know what McBush's number is either in that regard, but his smear camapign of the past 6 weeks has been directed at his own shakey base.

It's fine to work to secure Obama's base, but remember at the same time that many GOPs don't like or trust McFlip and will either sit it out or defect to Obama if his smear/fear campaign doesn't take.

by Obama44 2008-08-26 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I agree and, really, McCain has to decide whether to coddle his base or reach for the center.  Sitting around calling Obama a "celebrity" is only going to take him so far.

I was an Obama supporter in the primaries.  I am no fan of HRC but give her major props tonight.

Bottom line, Obama needs to move undecideds into the decided column. The good news is that there is a rich vein of undecided Clinton voters out there.  It is far more natural for them to move towards Obama than it is to move towards McCain.  

It is time for all of us to move past the primaries, give HRC some love and focus on the general election.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-26 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

IMO, it is fine to vote against Obama if you do not share his position on the issues or if you think he is too inexperienced to be President.  I don't agree with either of those things but those are honest reasons to vote against the man.  

They're on the same side of every issue.  If a person was for Hil based on issues then that person should be for Barack based on the same issues.  These people are post rational & looking for an excuse to screw over their nation and my children... period.

by lockewasright 2008-08-27 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Hilary's speech was awesome!!!  If these people can't get behind Barack after that barn burner.... well see above.

by lockewasright 2008-08-27 06:58AM | 0 recs
This guy has a recap of what went on during the primary that caused some Hillary supporters to form PUMA. If Hillary supporters posted stuff this malicious you would be accusing them of racism. Obama has his work cut out for him in convincing these people to vote for him undoing the damage done by his over zealous supporters.
by usedmeat 2008-08-27 05:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Howey Politics Indiana: "Hillary Delivers"

Clinton told an enraptured crowd of 4,000 delegates as well as a national TV audience. "No way. No how. No McCain."

I think "enraptured" is the best description you could give. I don't even think some of those crowd-participation lines were scripted.

by TCQuad 2008-08-26 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Bored, not board.  Unless he was a piece of wood.

by Hill4Life 2008-08-26 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

He was the opposite of bored.  He was onboard.  a typo of missing space (or hyphen) rather than a misspelling.

by tominstl 2008-08-26 09:08PM | 0 recs
Great Speech

Best speech I've seen Hillary ever make. Anyway, did Mark Warner ever speak? Poor guy.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-26 08:46PM | 0 recs
Warner was pretty good

He just had the problem, as he even noted in his speech, of going after Michelle Obama the day before and before Hillary Clinton last night.

I liked his speech; he hit the right level of bipartisanship and attacking the current administration/linking them to McCain.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-27 05:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Amazing speech from Hillary.  Solid speech from Mark Warner.

Can Bill Richardson go away?  He's digging himself a hole for a lot of people.

by toonsterwu 2008-08-26 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

It was incredibly well crafted speech. The structure was brilliant, imo. The narrative told an emotional story to anyone willing to listen.

by bruh3 2008-08-26 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

According to Political Wire, Mark Warner bombed. 8/27/warners_keynote_bombed.html

Delegates gave polite applause during the speech but by the end you could hear the buzz of many talking to each other rather than listening to the man at the podium.

The speech that should have been billed as the keynote was that of Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer. He whipped up delegates into a frenzy and was very well received.

I watched Schweitzer's speech on C-Span and agree it was awesome.  He looked like he really rallied the crowd.  Mark warner was kinda milquetoast in comparison.

by Vox Populi 2008-08-26 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Well, he warned that his speech probably wasn't going to be popular with everybody.

by vcalzone 2008-08-26 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Yeah, but it wasn't really the theme that was not popular.  Really, the theme reminded me quite a bit of Obama in 2004.

But Warner just didn't deliver it hugely well, IMHO.

He seems fine, but not particularly amazing---although he did govern very well.

by bosdcla14 2008-08-26 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Same as Sebelius, I suppose. Beloved in as red as state as you can get whose name doesn't start with "Oklahoma". But her speech didn't do much for me either.

Gotta say, though, this is the age of marketing psychology and too many comm majors. There's no excuse for hiring a damn good speech coach and learning how to deliver in an entertaining way.

by vcalzone 2008-08-26 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread
Thank god, Sebelius is a much better governor than she is a speaker!!
She needs to work on that (and I say that as one of her devoted constituents).
by skohayes 2008-08-27 06:33AM | 0 recs
like you want electrodes implanted everywhere

... okay, so the Republicans are crazy with the making of the speechmakers...

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-27 06:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread
Warner was keynoted for one reason: Virginia.
Polls from his state will tell whether his speech was a success.
by Obama44 2008-08-26 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Indeed.  Dead right.

by fogiv 2008-08-26 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Agreed.  He didn't need to deliver an awesome speech.  He simply needed to be the keynote.  The guy is so wildly popular in Virginia that he could have stood up there and given a 5 minute description of a fart and there still would have been a good chance that it'd have a positive impact in Virginia for Barack.

I did think the speech lacked anything exciting and the delivery was flat.  I agree that it was Schweitzer that got the crowd amped up, but the goal for Warner was to let adoring Virginians see their beloved Mark Warner endorsing Barack Obama from a prominent position on the schedule.   That's all.

by lockewasright 2008-08-27 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I just got through reading a couple of PUMA site live-blog transcripts, and I sense real movement toward Obama. I admit to having held the belief that these people weren't really as loyal to Hillary so much as Anti-Obama or even Pro-McCain, but as it turns out, most are now sounding as though they do actually respect Hillary and will support Obama in the General Election.

My apologies to them for underestimating their sincerity.

by QTG 2008-08-26 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Don't wander over to Alegre's Corner, then.  There are some very hardened hearts over there.  I wandered over after the speech to see if they really truly heard Hillary, and I just ended up feeling a mixture of sadness and pity at the unrelenting demonization of all things non-Hillary.  It's just horribly sad to see.

by Dreorg 2008-08-26 09:22PM | 0 recs
Yeah the comments I read at Politico were the same

I really, really hope they are Republican trolls or we are soooo screwed.

by conspiracy 2008-08-26 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah the comments I read at Politico were the

PUMAs are loud, but they are not as numerous as it would appear...

by LordMike 2008-08-26 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Yep, there are folks there saying that Michelle should be described with the "B word." When you have feminists who decried sexism saying stuff like they, you know they are truly post-rational.

by politicsmatters 2008-08-27 05:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I agree, it's time to close the books on PUMA, they are not numerous enough to matter and no one is going to kiss their ass for their votes (which is what they want).

by skohayes 2008-08-27 06:36AM | 0 recs
wait... you mean they mean that NOT as
a compliment?
what disreputable, honorless, ululators.
by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-27 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

That's good to hear. I've had a different experience so far. I read through one PUMA live blog transcript, and the following comment thread, and...well, I'll give you an example. When one poster said s/he was conflicted, the response was

"We aren't, ObamaNOT. You are a very stealth troll."  

I.e., if you begin to consider voting for Obama because of what's at stake, you're clearly a troll.

by kydoc2 2008-08-26 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I read that thread, as well (I couldn't help myself and had to see what Alegre and co. thought). The slightest openness to Obama was met with hostility and allegations of trolling.

But, that's a good thing, in a way. Groups that impose that kind of exclusivity don't tend to grow. They shrink.

by DPW 2008-08-26 10:01PM | 0 recs
The Talk Left thread I read was...

...extolling the virtues of Bill Kristol and denigrating Jimmy Carter which gives me hope that many of them aren't Democrats at all. Then you have the ones who are actually MORE anti-Obama after the speech. At the very least they aren't representative surely? If the polls don't move after tonight Obama already lost.

by conspiracy 2008-08-26 10:07PM | 0 recs
Re: The Talk Left thread I read was...

Ugh, Bill Kristol, really? Between him and Charles Krauthammer, you have a tie for upper-class twit of the year.

by vcalzone 2008-08-26 10:56PM | 0 recs
Re: The Talk Left thread I read was...

Why do you people think TalkLeft is a PUMA site, again?  Because they don't scream 'Amen' at everything Obama does?  For my money, BTD is the most consistently spot-on blogger out there.  

...and everyone should know there are crazy comments everywhere.

by BRockNYC 2008-08-27 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: The Talk Left thread I read was...

A few signs of being PUMA

tendency to always frame narratives as Clinton related even when not

tendency to always believe the worse of Obama

tendency to make shit up about obama in order to demonize (ie, google Indiana and the closest of the vote and talk left's 'theory' in primary etc)

tendency to overstate any idealogical divide (not much of one) between clinon and obama

still fighting primary wars

enforcing double standards with said discussions (ie discussions of sexism but not racism)

there are other easons, but none of them are about just criticizing Obama on say FISA

Oh, and it's not just one or two posters. Its the flavor of the site. Almost are are excessively anti Obama and want to demonize him. Read all the comments on Clinton and Michelle's speeches.

by bruh3 2008-08-27 06:49AM | 0 recs
Obama has a 95% chance of winning

... he's betting on the ground game. And from what I've seen of it here, it is FUCKING BRASS SOLID.

"register to vote" volunteers MOBBING the over 3000 new voters just moving into dorms... Not to mention the paid volunteers.

by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-27 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

someone should really start a movement tonight to help pay down Hillary's debt, I really think both Obama and Hillary supporters donating right now, could raise the 13 million she needs to pay off vendors

by TruthMatters 2008-08-26 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I'll contribute!  And if you look at my comment history, I'm no Hillary fan...  she won me over tonight!

We have to do it in an organized way, so that people know that it's unified (and especially Barack) supporters paying off the debts...

by LordMike 2008-08-26 10:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I gave ten bucks as soon as she dropped.  If every one of her "eighteen million" would do the same, she'd be swimming in cash.

She did a great job, BTW.

by lojasmo 2008-08-27 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

The re-broadcast of the Hillary speech is starting on MSNBC right now for those interested.

by randomscientist 2008-08-26 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Just say this at politico, a report of Obama's reaction to the speech as he watched from a Montana home:

Obama grabbed a remote control to switch from MSNBC . . . to CSPAN which was carrying Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer's speech live. Some weird record message came on the TV screen and someone else finished switching the channel. Obama and the house guests laughed their way through much of the speech and smiled broadly when President Clinton followed Schweitzer's command to stand up and was laughing. "That was great, that was good," Obama said of the Hillary Clinton video before she came out.

Obama was sitting at the edge of the crowded brown sectional sofa closest to the TV in thre family's small living room, leaning slightly forward, and as the video played he was watching intently with his hands folded together. "It's a nice moment," he said as Clinton came onstage. He also said Chelsea Clinton had "turned into such a wonderful young woman."

Clinton began speaking and when she said she was "a proud suporter of Barack Obama" he smiled and softly shouted "yay" then straightened his face again. He clapped when she said "no way, no how, no McCain."

Obama also smiled and laughed widely when she talked about her sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits. He noded solemnly as she explained why she is supporting Obama and sat silent when she asked her supporters whether the were just in it "for me" or for various needy groups in America. He nodded and clapped when she talked of him signing expanded health care and when she praised Michelle Obama. He nodded and said "Yeah" as she criticized McCain and as her speech neared the end he leaned increasingly closer to the TV set.

by DPW 2008-08-26 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

"say" should be "saw"

by DPW 2008-08-26 10:11PM | 0 recs

Clinton began speaking and when she said she was "a proud suporter of Barack Obama" he smiled and softly shouted "yay" then straightened his face again.

Distinguished, unflappable Obama says, "yay?"  That must've been cute.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-27 05:40AM | 0 recs
Dead-ender comedy, talkleft edition

Why is he in Montana, watching the convention at a house party? Shouldn't he have come to Denver for the entire convention? It's more than half over and he's still not here. He's missed a great opportunity.

Update: Commenters point out it's tradition for the nominee not to appear at the convention until the final day. I didn't know that.

"I was wrong" is simply not in these tools' vocabulary.

by username 2008-08-27 12:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Hillary (and Schweitzer) stepped up to the plate last night and hit the ball out of the stadium.  

by TheUnknown285 2008-08-27 04:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Oh Hillary, I love you so much, and I've always liked Brian Schweitzer and constantly advocated for him to be Obama's VP Pick.

The larger question leaving the convention is will Hillary's message stay in tact and meaningful to those Democrats who have switched to McCain?  I hope so.

by ejintx 2008-08-27 04:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

I am still yet to be convinced that airing all this disunity will either achieve catharsis for strong Clinton supporters or appeal to undecided voters. On the latter, a lot of times people don't want to vote for a party that doesn't have its stuff together and the Democratic party doesn't look like it has.  

by politicsmatters 2008-08-27 05:49AM | 0 recs
next week we get to see the republicans fracture
jsut wait for it.
neocons, paleocons, theocons AT WAR!
With eachother, naturally.
by BlogSurrogate57 2008-08-27 06:47AM | 0 recs
The Morning working world.

First impressions from MSNBC and CNN this morning:

NOW the commentary for those just waking up is still a house divided, it was good but not THAT good.

To their credit, those reporters who were in the hall are supporting the great Hillary speech and are talking Unity.  However, this gives nothing for the pundits to stir up, so it's not so good.

We really need to start beating up the MSM for their crooked coverage.

Rumor heard from my wife: FOX is running the pool camera coverage.  True?

by NvDem 2008-08-27 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Post-Show Open Thread

Pandagon shows the organizational proof that PUMAs aren't Democrats at all, but a ploy set up by the Republicans.

They never really supported Hillary, they certainly won't support Obama, and they are proven contributors to McCain.

Are we ever going to get the Karl Roves out of politics?

Under The LobsterScope

by btchakir 2008-08-27 07:06AM | 0 recs


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