Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist Should Do

Last night, I finally got around to listening to the podcast of Bill Moyers' December interview with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann. Now I know that, given his primary season criticisms of the Clinton campaign, Olbermann is no longer seen by everyone here as some sort of knight in shining armor. To those people I would say, I understand your anger; I feel it every time a reporter repeats the lie that Joe Biden is a plagiarist or Howard Dean a polarizing madman. However, now that the primary season is over, we should once again be thankful that SOMEONE with a cable platform is calling out Bush for his attacks on the Constitution and his incompetence.

In that spirit, I want to share two Olbermann quotes from the interview that help crystallize just what a good journalist should do, and why today's media is not representative of good journalism. This first quote is in reply to a question from Moyers about what political journalism and sports broadcasting (Olbermann's prior life) have in common. Olbermann replied that both require skepticism and an appreciation for history.

In sports reporting, it is almost assumed that you need to have some predicative ability and you have to be able to discern patterns, and also discern when somebody's telling you, "No, our shortstop's great!" and he really isn't, and what the difference between those two things are. When the results don't match up to the hyperbole, you need to be able to see that, and you need to be able to say it in some sort of informed way. When you cover a sport like baseball or football or whatever, you're here for this part of the story. You've joined it 75 years in progress or 100 years in progress. It should be the same way when you're covering the news, particularly in politics, and yet as we've seen, people in the political world now don't know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was.

This second quote came a few minutes later, and speaks to the importance of linking old news with new developments - what Olbermann calls "discerning patterns."

Part of the news is not just saying, well, this happened in the last 24 hours, but here's something that happened six weeks and there's been a development in it, you're just not reading about it, you're not hearing about it, because there's so much else to worry about it. The list, though, of things we could attach the word "-gate" to in the Bush administration is now 50 items long.

After listening to that interview, I sat down to write a list of all the Bush scandals I could think of. Olbermann was wrong - there are MORE than 50 items. I need to take some time to put the list in some sort of a coherent order, but will post it tomorrow for an open thread of add-ons.

What Olbermann calls "discerning patterns," my former journalism professor and freelance reporter Alexis Jetter calls "connecting the dots." Both are correct: the MSM's fear of repeating "old news" must die. We can't see the truth if we don't connect the past with the present, whether that past be two weeks old or forty years. Reporting the Dick Cheney censored CDC testimony to Congress means nothing if the media doesn't remind viewers that this censorship follows on the heels of similar attacks on the EPA and NASA. Connecting the dots is what Walter Cronkite did when he explained the Watergate scandal to the American people, and it's what Olbermann tries to do with his show's segment, "Bushed! Countdown's list of the top three Bush scandals you may have forgotten about because of all of the new Bush scandals." Here then is the most recent "Bushed" from July 11, guest hosted by Rachel Maddow.

Tags: Bill Moyers, Keith Olbermann, MSM (all tags)



KO abused his position and really did

go over the line into blind Clinton-hater territory.  He really thought Hillary made the RFK reference, not to refer to a point in time, but because she wanted to see BO assassinated?  Katie Couric is the worst person in the world for saying sexism impacted the election?  Please.  He proved he's an unfair ass willing to spew the spin of a campaign as boldly as Limbaugh ever has.  Yes, he's our ass.  But, an ass nonetheless.

by kosnomore 2008-07-12 01:06PM | 0 recs
And, btw - -

he really does need to work on growing beyond the sexist hubba hubba, "I screw girls but I prefer the company of boys" attitude of the professional sports world he comes from.

by kosnomore 2008-07-12 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: And, btw - -

Keith Olbermann was the only male insider to stand up against ESPN's culture of sexual harassment during his time at Sports Center. You learn a lot about Olbermann's character - both good and bad - in Michael Freeman's ESPN: The Uncensored History. Fortunately, he always tries to make up for the bad.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-12 01:13PM | 0 recs
Nobody's all good or evil, or black or white,
but shades of gray, not me, not you, not KO.  
Too bad KO forgot that during the primaries.
by kosnomore 2008-07-12 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Nobody's all good or evil, or black or white,

I can largely agree with such a comment. If KO's act cleans up over the next few months, or even year, would you give him another chance?

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-12 01:23PM | 0 recs
Of course - like I said above - -

he's an ass, but he's OUR ass!  LOL

by kosnomore 2008-07-12 01:31PM | 0 recs
If KO's act cleans up over the next few months

You want him to stop telling the truth about Mad McCain?

by planetwave 2008-07-12 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: If KO's act cleans up over the next few months

Yes, given that we are talking about Hillary Clinton, that's clearly what I meant.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:29PM | 0 recs
The words Olbermann

and good journalism in the same sentence made me laugh out loud. He must have started the new segment since I quit watching him.

by georgiapeach 2008-07-12 02:00PM | 0 recs
Olbermann is gross

Sexist.  Biased. Self-righteous. Hard for me to give credence to anything he says after he past behavior.  It's sad too because I do like his courage in calling out the Repubs on all their atrocities.  He just got too big too fast and became a liberal Bill O'Reilley.


by easyE 2008-07-12 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Olbermann is gross

According to Michael Freeman's ESPN: The Uncensored History, which was hardly a pro-Olbermann book, Olbermann was the only male insider to stand up against ESPN's culture of sexual harassment during his time at Sports Center. I wouldn't call that sexist.

But I'd probably agree that he got too big too fast - his special comments went from courageous to often self-important. The show isn't as good as it used to be, but I haven't jumped on the KO-hater bandwagon.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-12 01:17PM | 0 recs
The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

But at least they're amusing.

by Beren 2008-07-12 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

You may find it amusing now, but I wonder who will have the last laugh?  

by Radiowalla 2008-07-12 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

When do you expect to be laughing last?  If McCain wins?  You'll be happy and laugh?  This is the kind of shit that leads people here to refer to folks LIKE YOU as "bitter dead enders" in the first place.  Sad, really.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-12 01:39PM | 0 recs
I don't appreciate being called a

"bitter dead-ender" because I don't care for Keith Olbermann's treatment of Hillary Clinton.

For your information, I plan to vote for the Democratic nominee.

Your "kind of shit" is what leads people here to walk away from the party altogether.  There is NO need for the kind of  gratuitous discourtesy and taunting demonstrated by Beren and yourself.

by Radiowalla 2008-07-12 01:58PM | 0 recs
"what leads people here to walk away"

The, "I don't support Obama or the party because of anonymous bloggers," excuse is the lamest of all.

by Beren 2008-07-12 02:42PM | 0 recs
Treatment of Hillary?

Not voting for her is mistreating her?

He's allowed to have his preference.

by iohs2008 2008-07-12 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't appreciate being called a

You still haven't explained yourself and what you meant by "laughing last."

by SpanishFly 2008-07-13 04:51AM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.


When you call HRC dead ends it is McCain who has the last laugh.  I think of folks like you as BO internet bullies who smeared HRC and now smear her supporters because we wont kiss you ass.

Grow up.  


by giusd 2008-07-12 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

Is that even English?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-12 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

Are you the internet spelling police.  Does that pay well.  Is it a status position.  More so than a physician.  Just checking.


by giusd 2008-07-12 11:29PM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

It hardly matters if I can't understand what you're writing, does it?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-13 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The bitter dead-enders will never get over it.

I haven't smeared anyone.  I tell it like it is.  If someone is holding KO's support for Obama against him this long after the primary, when he's really the only true progressive voice on cable news right now, well, you tell me what that means...

His special comment on her bringing up the Kennedy assassination is about the only thing I really saw as slightly over the top.  I never saw it the way some did.  And if you watch his comment he's careful to call her out for being careless more than for wishing death on Obama.  Every other grievance against KO is fabricated BS, IMO.

As for "growing up", how old are you?  This is politics, friend.  Never before have I seen so much hand wringing over the feelings of the supporters of the loser before.  It's time for THEM to grow up before THEY put John McCain in the Whitehouse.  

by SpanishFly 2008-07-13 05:01AM | 0 recs
who will have the last laugh?

It won't be the handful of dead-enders since McBush will lose.

by Beren 2008-07-12 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: who will have the last laugh?

"Dead-Enders"?  Please.

How's that FISA thing feel?  You think maybe you got played?  Wait, there's more coming.  I hear it's called "Moving to the Right for the General".

I'm having the last laugh right now.

by dembluestates 2008-07-12 05:29PM | 0 recs
Re: who will have the last laugh?

No one got played like I did when I expected Hillary to vote against blundering into Iraq with Bush/McSame back in 02.

by Beren 2008-07-12 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: who will have the last laugh?

Once again, the Obama blinders.

Hillary voted to give Bush the power he was asking to do the job of President and C-in-C.  Read her speech.  She has her doubts, but she votes to support her President.

Too bad Obama wasn't a US Senator running for President then.  If his shameful behavior on FISA and Faith-based funding is any indication, he would probably have been at the table handing Bush the pen to affirm the Authorization.

by dembluestates 2008-07-13 07:58AM | 0 recs

Hillary lost. Obama is the Democratic nominee. Only McTrolls still attack Obama around here.

by Beren 2008-07-13 08:56AM | 0 recs
Keith Olbermann has soiled his reputation

beyond repair during this primary season.   Someone needs to take him into a room and only one of them comes out.

See here: Daily Howler , and  here for another Daily Howler and also here and here .

I used to tape his show every day.  No more.

by Radiowalla 2008-07-12 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann

"Someone needs to take him into a room and only one of them comes out"

Hillary did. And Keith walked out.

by Beren 2008-07-12 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann

Hillary walked out.

Keith O will never be the same again.  The legend tha is Hillary Clinton actually GREW.

by dembluestates 2008-07-12 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann

Olbermann's ratings are better than ever.

Hillary? She's standing in the unemployed prez candidate line.

by Beren 2008-07-12 06:32PM | 0 recs
You might consider

combating the trolls without bringing Hillary into it. If they want to throw her name around, whatever, but there's no reason to be callous about her. She has little bearing in these arguments, except for the fact that she's being screwed over by some of her own irrational supporters.

by sricki 2008-07-12 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: You might consider

You've got a good point there. I'll try harder to ignore the troll bait.

by Beren 2008-07-12 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann


Olbermann's ratings are increasing as Bill O'Reilly's are decreasing.

Hmmm....ya think?

Hillary is standing on no lines except her own.

She has defeated the millions of dollars the Right wing and Obama spent in character assassination, and in fact gained supporters across this country.

She has gained tremendous stature in the Party, won millions of new voters and constituencies in surprising new places, and gained a lasting place for herself and for all women in American History.

Olbermann?  This primary season exposed him as just another partisan two-bit Chris Matthews-Glenn Beck style cable news flamethrower and blowhard.  You see him growing as a JOURNALIST??  I laugh in your general direction. He jumped his shark, like Fonzie.

by dembluestates 2008-07-13 08:08AM | 0 recs

by Beren 2008-07-13 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann has soiled his reputation

No need to tape it, it's available every day in it's entirety as a podcast (without ads)

by semiquaver 2008-07-12 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist
Bill Moyers is above anything we can see on TV...
Outside of him..just wondering..those that feel strongly against KO..
Who is your favorite male personality currently on TV?
by nogo postal 2008-07-12 01:31PM | 0 recs

Is the only news show I watch

by wrb 2008-07-12 03:00PM | 0 recs
List of Scandals

Hugh has a list of 369 scandals. Actually, some of these are just obnoxious right-wing positions, not real scandals. But there are plenty of scandals too.

by RandomNonviolence 2008-07-12 01:31PM | 0 recs
This thread will be...

Another concern troll magnet.  See above.  Damn, this place was once a worthwhile site for progressives.

OK, so I'm not just whining like them, I'll offer this...

KO and Kos owe nobody an apology.  They made their choice based on the facts at hand.  Hillary went super-negative with the whole kitchen sink deal and deserved ALL of the criticism and scorn she received.  That was then, this is now.

Both Kos and KO are strong voices for our causes.  There are 100 examples for every one the concern trolls like to throw out there to show they aren't.  Nobody is perfect.

And Transplanted Texan, I couldn't agree with you more.  Journalism these days seems to be a dog and pony show, nothing more.  Russert was great at dragging out old clips to "connect the dots."  He stood out in news as one who actually made an effort to do so.  KO is a voice for progressives who answers the Fox bias.  I'm not sure he's really done enough "dot connecting" himself, although even if he did, he'd be discounted because of his bias, regardless of how accurate his reporting was.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-12 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: This thread will be...

Yes, anyone who doesn't like KO is a concern troll, because you say so.

by Denny Crane 2008-07-12 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: This thread will be...

No, not because I say so.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-13 05:07AM | 0 recs
You're forgetting

For the PUMAs, this is all about them and their hurt feelings and their) identitiy politics.

They aren't thinking about liberalism -- they are thinking about themselves. That is why they hold grudges against liberal heroes, such as KO and kos.

The specific candidate doesn't really matter. All that matters is building liberalism.

If you're thinking about the greater good, you can't hold a grudge.

by iohs2008 2008-07-12 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: This thread will be...

He will be less effective because his bias is so obvious and we all want our journalism objective.  But honestly, how long has it been since journalism has, in fact, been objective?  At least with an obvious bias we can evaluate the worth of his comments.

And frankly, there was some real satisfaction in hearing him tell GWB to "shut the hell up."  

Sometimes it is enough to have someone scream on my behalf when faced with today's reality.

by Susan from 29 2008-07-13 11:50AM | 0 recs
KO is no BillO

KO has intelligence and wit.

by calwoman 2008-07-12 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: KO is no BillO
And is a liberal.
And was the only voice in the MSM to call out this President.
by iohs2008 2008-07-12 08:05PM | 0 recs
No No Never

Olbermann, Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, Rachael Maddow, Ed Schultz, Air America (except for Thom Hartman)and MSNBC are all dead to me forever. They all can go straight to the unemployment line and go to blazes as far as I am concerned.

Back to NPR and PBS for me and enjoying it. I also have Sirius and find the Singnorele Show (109)from 2-6 EST has some good stuff.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-12 02:50PM | 0 recs
NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

PBS = 'Publican Broadcast Service

Why is the quintessential Hillary supporter always a Republican just below the (thin) skin? Is it because she herself was once a Goldwater Girl?

by Beren 2008-07-12 03:19PM | 0 recs

Don't diss NPR and PBS.  Their news sucks, yeah, but their non news shows are some of the best.  (Especially for poor folks like me with no cable and no satellite radio.)

by Elsinora 2008-07-12 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey!

My week isn't complete without On The Media.  I dare anyone to call that a 'republican show'.

by semiquaver 2008-07-12 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey!

 NPR's news/politics is exactly what I'm referring to.

by Beren 2008-07-12 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

wtf?  I don't find NPR to be conservative at all.   Morning Edition, All Things Considered, and BBC World Service make up the bulk of my local programming -- straight news programs that are, if anything, biased to the left.  I've always thought that the stereotype of the latte-sipping liberal includes a NPR tote bag.

What programs on the network do you find to be republican-oriented?

by semiquaver 2008-07-12 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

NPR/PBS started kissing up to the GOP ever when they got control of the purse strings back in 95. The current crop of Dem leaders aren't about to expect anything different from them.

"Nice Polite Republicans" are the ones who fool dupes into thinking they're liberal -- and there are unfortunately way too many liberal dupes out there who don't recognize the GOP agenda when it slaps them in the face.

by Beren 2008-07-12 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

I probably have helped elect more democrats, knocked on more doors, made more calls and done more of the day to day work that you every dreamed of doing over many years.

You bet I have not fallen under the Obama spell. He is a seriously flawed and inexperienced candidate, one who I will try to help carry Virginia and elect as the next president, along with Mark Warner to the Senate. The character assassin of HRC to who I referenced are gone from my viewing and listening habits.

So don't lecture me with your condescending BS. My democratic bona fides are just fine and you can KMA you sniveling little keyboard commando.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-13 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

If you were a Democrat you'd at least know when to keep your mouth shut and not spread GOP lies.

The BS is when you people say you'll vote for Obama just as a cover to attack him. You're fooling no one, McTroll..

by Beren 2008-07-13 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

Go F youself, you brainless twit.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-14 03:01PM | 0 recs
Re: NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

Your brainless response could have only been induced from looking into a mirror.

by Beren 2008-07-14 04:15PM | 0 recs
You are truly beyond ignorant

People like you make true liberals angry because of your ignorance.  Grow a brain cell will you? Your friend Kos was a Reagan does that make him even more republican under an even thinner skin?  
Hillary, like most teens, was the same as their parents.....until she came of age, usually in college....which is where Hillary became a liberal and started supporting liberal causes then.
Hillary organized civil rights actions in college to get her college to get more minorities on campus.
Hillary's first job after law school was to work on Watergate as a part of the team bringing down Nixon.
Hillary has worked in factories, and worked with advocacy for children groups long before she met Bill.  
Hillary, as the first lady of Arkansas opened clinics all over the state for poor women and children......
And as first lady she stood up to the Chinese government ..."Women's rights are human rights...". She is admired by liberals, by the poor and oppressed throughout the world.  It's only ignorant people here who play this "Hillary must be hated and trashed so I can feel good" game.
Hillary Clinton has done more for liberal causes in her lifetime than Olberman or probably people like you have ever done.

Get over yourself. You got your nominee.  If you are happy with him, then why the hell are you so damned insecure you have to trash anyone who does not think like you.

by Jjc2008 2008-07-14 06:47AM | 0 recs
Take your own comment to heart.....

"....why the hell are you so damned insecure you have to trash anyone who does not think like you."

by Beren 2008-07-14 09:52AM | 0 recs
KO Scum bag

Hell would freeze over before i ever watch Obermann again.  If he treated my wife the way he treated HRC i would have punched his lights out every day for a week...  

Look if Ann Coulter said something that helped dems i would pass on prasing her.  Same thing with Obermann.  He is no different than Ann Coulter, period.  I am just not interested in selling my soul to the devil and IMHO Obermann is the Devil.  

He is dead to me and if he was in my oncology clinic and needed life saving help i would say i dont treat his kind.  SCUM.


by giusd 2008-07-12 03:16PM | 0 recs
What a wonderful person you aren't.

He is dead to me and if he was in my oncology clinic and needed life saving help i would say i dont treat his kind.  SCUM.

If Shrub choked on another pretzel in front of me, I'm pretty sure my first action would be to save the man's freaking life, not to tell him "serves you right."

I swear to God, some of the so-called "progressives" on this site are as bad as the Freepers.  It's sickening.

by Elsinora 2008-07-12 03:34PM | 0 recs
They aren't just as bad -- they are

There are only two sorts of people who would have that much anger against KO or kos: 1) the dead enders; navel gazing and sobbing over their feelings, who never cared about liberalism and the country, but only themselves and their candidate, and 2) real freepers who hate liberalism.

by iohs2008 2008-07-12 08:09PM | 0 recs

KO is disgusting, and a sexist. End of discussion. He needs to go back to Sportscenter, but the problem is, they have much more talent there already.

by zcflint05 2008-07-12 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Haha...

Y'know, when he was at Sportscenter, he was the only male to, behind the scenes, stand up to the sexual harassment that plagued the ESPN culture. I don't call that sexist.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:34PM | 0 recs
Hillary deserved most of the criticism she got.

So sorry, but she ran a miserable, self-defeating negative campaign.  It was entirely Rovian, right down to quoting Rove's numbers.  She thoroughly disgusted me for the last few months, and it had nothing to do with "Hillary hating."  It had everything to do with the way she campaigned.

Yes, Keith was over the top in his RFK Special Comment, all he had to do was read the words.  They were powerful enough.  But that's not enough of a knock for me for all the truth-to-power I get to see from one night to the next.  

by Jenius 2008-07-12 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary deserved most of the criticism she got


Hillary beat the lights out of Obama from late February to June. She beat him in almost every category, especially the popular vote, in that period.

Obama was handed the nomination by the Superdelegates and the special interests who contributed so much to his campaign, and who decided to anoint him early on.

Today, we find that McCain and Obama are in a virtual tie in the Newsweek poll.  I have no idea what will happen to this party if Obama finds a way to lose this.

by dembluestates 2008-07-12 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary deserved most of the criticism she got

I can't believe we're still talking about this, but that psuedo-conspiracy theory 'special interests' claim is just laughable.  Sen. Clinton was anointed by the party and the media as the inevitable nominee from the start -- she had a several-hundred delegate lead before the first primary.  Obama was severely disadvantaged at the beginning of the process, which makes his victory that much more impressive.

Your anger should be directed at shadowy behind-the-scenes figures, it should be directed at Mark Penn.  If any competent person had been in his place, Hillary would be the nominee.

by semiquaver 2008-07-12 06:22PM | 0 recs
should read

Your anger should not be directed at shadowy behind-the-scenes figures

by semiquaver 2008-07-12 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: should read

You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.

Just take a look at the final numbers:  The Superdelegates, not the elected delegates or the popular vote, have pushed Obama over the top.

And the fix was IN very early, just about the time the MSM and cable news started to push Obama.

You think it Was a coincidence that KO, Maddow, Chuck Todd, Tweety, and every other pundit and cable channel in sight all of a sudden started to trash Hillary and Bill at the same time?

I don't.  The Clintons were well screwed, and so are we.  

by dembluestates 2008-07-13 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: should read

The Superdelegates, not the elected delegates or the popular vote, have pushed Obama over the top.
This isn't surprising.  If Clinton won, she would have needed them even more.  Very early on, it was widely predicted that neither candidate would go over the top by themselves and the superdelegates would be a necessary factor in either side's victory.  A lot of Clinton's talk during the second half of the primary was about how the superdelegates would rally to her once they realized Obama was unelectable.

In my opinion, the punditocracy started calling the Clinton camp out when it began using dirty tactics, and by its own admission "threw the kitchen sink" at their opponent.  Consider that the media also spent a lot of time dealing with Obama's various scandals: bittergate, rev. Wright, etc.  They're the media -- their MO is to focus on the negative.

by semiquaver 2008-07-13 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: should read

When you consider that every early state Obama and Clinton both campaigned in, he pulled ahead, we realize that Florida and Michigan would have been a lot different had the two candidates campaigned there. If you give him the uncommitted vote in Michigan (because let's be honest, do we really think not a person there supports him?), the popular vote further shifts. I think he won the popular vote, and many of the arguments to the contrary are getting pretty tired.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:37PM | 0 recs

The only practitioner of the tactics of karl rove was the campaign of Obama. He and his surrogates lied and twisted the words of many great democrats into something it was not. Bill, Hillary and Geraldine are great democrats who were spun into ranting racist attacks by "a new kind of politician". BS, pure BS.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-13 07:36AM | 0 recs
Crying game

Boohoo, Keith wanted Obama to win instead of Hillary.  So did a lot of other people.  Does that mean we are all sexist?  Gimme a break.

Also, the he said-she said bullshit conglomerate owned news media needs to be burned to the ground and started anew.  Time to bring back the Fairness Doctrine.  Time to force divestiture of assets.

by agpc 2008-07-12 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Crying game

TR'ed for inthread TR abuse of myself. Watch your ratings.

by zcflint05 2008-07-12 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Crying game

Go ahead and TR this comment too.  I don't care.

by agpc 2008-07-12 06:54PM | 0 recs

The earlier rating is clearly abuse.

by SpanishFly 2008-07-13 05:17AM | 0 recs
I'm sorry but your effort to rehabilitate Mr.
Olbermann is too soon and not really fruitful especially with no apologies coming from him for his sexist behavior.
I'm not sure how Jeffery Immelt would have reacted if one of his other GE employees behaved the way the MSNBC commentators did. In any corporation of repute anybody would be fired for such sexist remarks.
by louisprandtl 2008-07-12 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm sorry but your effort to rehabilitate Mr.

The fact that the target of his criticism is not enough to label him a sexist, especially since he was the only male at ESPN to stand up to rampant sexual harassment at the company's Bristol, NJ headquarters.

And in any event, I am not trying to rehab KO's image. I don't really care if Clinton supporters watch him or not. I came across two insightful quotes, and wanted to share them. That's all there is to it. It's a shame people can't see paste the quotee to look at the actual quotes.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:39PM | 0 recs
I'm sorry but Mr. Olbermann's comments

against HRC were not just over the top. They are judged sexist by progressive women organizations like NOW, and not for some frivolous reasons. He also regularly makes insulting sexist remarks against females in his show which had been mentioned in other diaries in this blog. Believe me, I used to watch KO's Countdown regularly till April this year before his infamous sexist remarks against HRC.

I like your diaries in general, but on this one would defer to Jerome's description of Mr. Oblermann.

by louisprandtl 2008-07-13 06:09PM | 0 recs
two cheeks on the same ass.

Keith Olbermann became everything he ever hated about Bill O'Reilly.   It really wasn't very long ago when Keith was calling Bush, and any other FISA bill supporter, Nazis.  However, when Obama supports telecom immunity, it's different.  Obama is 'bravely standing up to the left.'   Somehow going against your campaign promise, is now bravery in Olbermann land.

Ever since I watched Keith's eyes almost pop out of his head, while condemning Hillary Clinton for not responding to Ferraro's foolish comments quickly enough, he lost my respect, and he'll never get it back.  He wasn't just a little bias during that primary, he abused his position and our trust. Bill and Keith are now just two cheeks on the same ass.

by HollyWould 2008-07-12 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist

KO =  asshat in my definition.. most pompous self-righteous person on TV.. actually I think he is in a way worse than Billo.. atleast Billo invites people of opposite world views to his show, KO 's egoist ass cant even tolerate dissent, he will have same liberals on his show each and every day.. worst show EVER..

by gladiatorsback 2008-07-12 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist

KO has hosted RNC chairs and John Dean, who for all his anti-Bush beliefs, is still a Goldwater conservative. If those are KO's beliefs, it's news to me.

Billo yells at his guests, cuts their mikes off, and bullies them around. I've never known KO to do any of that.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist

What seems to get lost in the pro-Hillary hype was that she ran a GE, not a primary, campaign against Obama where she tried to position herself to be the conservative candidate versus the liberal one... this was no typical primary battle...  Remember, she proudly threw the kitchen sink at Obama.  That's not typical primary behavior.  Most folk concede when there is no chance of winning rather than potentially damage the nominee with a nasty fight.  She utilized any and all free media at her disposal, such as Fox News which only made it seem more unseemly to progressives.  Looking back, she was just doing what she could to get free press... but courting Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh... that's the kind of stuff that is worthy of criticism.

His criticisms on those points were certainly valid... He may have gotten carried away with himself near the end, but lets not forget, he was initially a Hillary supporter (as was Maddow) until her campaign tactics turned both of them off...

Ironically enough, it turns out that while she campaigned as a righty, and he campaigned as a lefty, the roles have now been reversed.  We definitely got sold a bill of goods...  It didn't help that Hillary decided to campaign as more conservative than she really was... it only made Obama seem more liberal than he really was...

Live and learn...

by LordMike 2008-07-12 09:12PM | 0 recs
campaigned as a lefty

That Obama has changed from left to center is a calculated myth which has become the, "I invented the internet," of this campaign.

Whatever you want to call him, then or now, his positions have remained consistent.

(Thanks again, Enzo Valenzetti.)

by Beren 2008-07-12 11:06PM | 0 recs
On top of all this KO hate

he was quoted in the interview as saying, "hockey is the most boring sport." That made my blood boil. This will not stand.

Seriously, I just wish he would pay less attention to what Fox News and O'Reilly are doing every second, and spend that time on actual news. That's not really good journalism right there.

by jaylou 2008-07-12 09:49PM | 0 recs
Re: On top of all this KO hate

its an insult to call him a serious journalist.. he is a sports commentator for petes sakw.. only lefty loonies adapted him and today he seems to be powerful voice for progressives??? what is is is a real insult..

by gladiatorsback 2008-07-12 10:19PM | 0 recs
Re: On top of all this KO hate

If we refuse to view him as nothing more than a sports commentator, does that mean we have to view Hillary Clinton as a Goldwater Republican and Ronald Reagan as an FDR Democrat?

People change. Careers change. We don't have to force people to stay stuck in the past.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: On top of all this KO hate

Maybe somebody should cross check some sense into him!

Let's Go Red Wings!

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-13 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: On top of all this KO hate

Mojo for the Red Wings. None for your defense of Ferraro's moronic statements.

by Jenius 2008-07-13 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: On top of all this KO hate

only in the twisted land of OZbama are her comments moronic. In the reality based community, we understand the rampant sexism to which her comments were addressing.

No, BO surrogates decided it was one more opportunity to play the disgusting race card they played throughout the primary season.

Sad, truly sad.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-15 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist

Screw Olberman, he showed his true colors when he let his Clinton hatred get the best of him. I will never watch him again.

by muggle 2008-07-12 10:48PM | 0 recs
Olbermann doesn't need to care

what a handful of bitter dead-enders think.....

June 10, 2008: "Countdown" Beats "O'Reilly Factor" In Ratings Demo For First Time Ever

by Beren 2008-07-12 10:55PM | 0 recs

This thread is a perfect illustration of the fact that listening to a witty and stridently opinionated pundit is great entertainment as long as you agree.  As soon as you disagree it grates like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Olbermann was always an ass but you never noticed until you disgreed with him. Those of you that still like him just haven't disagreed with him yet.  When the day comes that you find yourself on the opposite side of an issue from Olbermann you will find he sounds no different than Ann Coulter.

Olbermann is not a journalist, he is a pundit. Don't pretend otherwise.

by dMarx 2008-07-12 10:57PM | 0 recs
Olbermann is not a journalist?

He's about the only one reporting dirty facts the others won't. That makes him a muckraker.

BTW, He came after Obama pretty hard over FISA and I haven't seen any Democrats attacking him for it. So that blows the, "wait until he gores your ox," theory out of the water.

by Beren 2008-07-12 11:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Olbermann is not a journalist?

So what, you agreed with Obermann about FISA, so you haven't disproven my point at all.

If he opposes a candidate you support then you will see what I am talking about. It is on those occasions that a pundit's lack of objectivity is in stark relief.

by dMarx 2008-07-13 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Olbermann is not a journalist?

When you look for the worst in everyone you will surely find it.

In this case you have nothing to base your opinion on but your own misanthropic cynicism.

by Beren 2008-07-13 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Journalist?

I've disagreed with him many times. I think the Clinton special comment was over the top. I think he could focus on O'Reilly less. I think his show was a lot better before the special comments became a regular feature. I also think it's arrogant of you to suggest that everyone else here only watches the reporting they like, if it's reporting you yourself dislike.

You're right, KO is a pundit, not a reporter. But his comments on Bill Moyers about journalism, even if he himself isn't a journalist, were insightful and worth sharing, regardless of their source.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:43PM | 0 recs
Keith Olbermann is a shameless hack

I remember when people around the blogosphere ere encouraged to write the phrase in protest against one of the guy's shameless hackfests. Why do I care about Keith Olbermann? Actually, I used not to until he started going after Bush as if that was a helpful thing to do. It wasn't. Millions of Americans protested the war in Iraq for years, desperately searching for some journalistic validation and support, when they should have been sitting in their congresspeople's home and DC offices until every last one of them could say I'm your constituent and here is what I think.

In this era of computer and couch potatoes and text messages and e-mails that get sent and forgotten 2 seconds later because it gives the illusion that someone actually heard it, Keith Olbermann's dramatic, wide-eyed over the top crazy performance pieces that produced a 2 second lack of default approval for the status quo. He used desperate people for ratings and ego puffing only.

Is the war over? No. The one against terror seems to have petered out in Afghanistan, where the Pakistanis say we aren't even looking for Osama in their country. And we still send billions of dollars to Iran every year.

We have a President gleefully signing FISA and the telecom that owns Keith Olbermann weeping with joy. Now, no one respects Keith even as a pundit, and they certainly don't look to him for reputable news. He's also managed to elevate McCain from a wet piece of old toast to a potential contender by constantly propping up Obama in a very uncritical way and looking for the "opposing" opinion.

By being both flagrantly and despicably anti-Clinton (repeatedly using either grotesque sexism or racism), he's inoculated the rest of the MSM. Along with Arianna Huffington, Maureen Dowd,  John Aravosis lots of Kossacks, he nurtured the creation of the "dead-enders"  I doubt it will lose Obama or any Democrats any races,  but what an incredibly destructive waste of time. It's almost as if the effort was meant to kneecap the Democrats to make their eventual victory more compelling - or at least something people would participate in.

I don't work for the MSM or get advertising dollars or ego props from blog hits or screen views. Really. Have we stopped discussing whether Kos has maxxed out to Obama yet? There's some big stuff coming down the pike. Fortunately most of the insane, insipid and radically right failed policy regurgitation will be coming from McCain and the Republicans.

I see no reason for me to forgive or forget what Keith Olbermann or the others did. I have no interest in reliving the primaries, for those fools who think that is what "all this"  is about. I see a much bigger need for Americans to elevate their critical skills and actually discuss just how old and how tired the ideas of McCain are.

by Jeter 2008-07-12 11:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann is a shameless hack

If you think it was KO who elevated McCain to contendor-status, and not his 2000 campaign, Mark Salter, and New Hampshire, you've really got your blinders on. And there are still plenty of people who respect KO - don't reflect your views onto the larger populace. His growing ratings are proof enough of that.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-07-13 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Keith Olbermann is a shameless hack

Growing ratings are proof of what? People are desperate for honest, in depth reporting of the news, and maybe even the implications of things that happen or occur. Yes, say I have blinders on but the media, including KO, elevated McCain to contender status after he had become the presumptive nominee and was shallow breathing in his gutted out Straight Talk Express. Without doing so, what would propel the punditry or compel people to watch them? Where would advertising revenue dollars come from? Like I said, I don't care to hear Olbermann's name or listen about anything because he is a peddler of hyperbole and hysteria. Others feel differently? Brilliant.

by Jeter 2008-07-13 09:17PM | 0 recs
Keith Olbermann ...

... can go straight to [very warm place].

The smears and lies he spread during the primaries are unforgivable.

The best thing he can do now is switch to being a Republican. He gives our side as bad a name as Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin give to theirs.

by OrangeFur 2008-07-13 02:17AM | 0 recs
Good Journalist?
Calling Keith a "journalist" is like calling GWB a president.
A journalist is an investigator that doesn't take sides, but reports the news- without bias clouding their reports. KO reads a teleprompter, someone else does the work for him.
Most Democrats rail about Fox News as a propaganda arm of the GOP, but ignore Keith Olbermann when his reporting is just as biased.
Yes, it's refreshing to finally hear our side of the story on the TV, to hear someone actually call Bush out for his lousy governance and point fingers at others who aid and abet the administration, but wouldn't it be even more refreshing to be able to turn on MSNBC or CNN or Fox and hear a news report without the reporter  adding their own biases (or the network's) to the story? The way it used to be?
by skohayes 2008-07-13 03:27AM | 0 recs
I told you so

Take a look at this freakin' thread.  Anyone with half a brain could pick through it and find the obvious trolls.  This site is a god damn wasteland anymore.


by SpanishFly 2008-07-13 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I told you so

Ya, you should leave and make that troll number just a little bit lower.

by dembluestates 2008-07-13 08:22AM | 0 recs
Didja Skip The Journalism/Media Crit Course?

where they showed you how the corporate media (there are no other kind) have been used over the last 125 years (mas o menos) to infantilize the masses, to install and reify instant gratification, and to enslave folks to a rabidly unfair, unjust, unsustainable life-world.

Every public utterance by any member of the Corporation/State is always already propaganda, a "spin" which favors the preferred, official interpretation of events, or ideas.

You don't have to control what people think, if you can control what they think about. In the corporate State, corporate media are State media. Controlling what you think ABOUT is their "job ONE!", their raison d'etre...

Every new technology only adds to their capacity to control the agenda, the podia, the platforms. You think you rule, but there are always choke points, places where the information flow slows, and you become an identifiable quantum.

by tokin librul 2008-07-13 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Connecting the Dots: What any Good Journalist

Thought the Bill Moyers interview was fascinating television, even though we only listened to the podcast just a couple of weeks ago while driving cross country.

Moyers is one of the last true journalists on television today and it was interesting to hear him talk to what might be described as a post journalist pundit.  As television news moves ever more towards becoming a means of selling cars, drugs and dish detergents instead of informing the public fewer dots are ever connected.  

The most important nugget that I took away (perhaps because it was new to me)was the first one you mentioned, that sportscasters actually see a bigger picture and are used to cutting through all of the chaff that is sent their way in an effort to get the answers their viewers want.  It makes the thought of Bob Costas as a Russert replacement conceivable.

And, even though his sometimes over the top stridency is annoying even when I agree with him, I love the fact that he actually knows something about our history.  That has become increasingly rare in today's media.

I also admire the use his show has made of Rachel Maddow.

by Susan from 29 2008-07-13 11:13AM | 0 recs


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