Energy solutions

There's little doubt that the Democratic leadership in congress is in the process of getting rolled over the exploration of offshore oil on the US coasts. Unfortunately, progressives in Congress have been on the sidelines over the past month, and have left the energy debate to be engaged by Republicans with more conservative Democrats.

It's good to see Senator Brown stepping up to show some leadership on the issue, acknowledging, like Senator Webb recently did, that more drilling for oil is going to happen in the US. It's inevitable with $4 gas. I wrote about this a few weeks back, and the comments were about split-- half adamant in resistance, and half that acknowledged the political environment.

Hopefully Pelosi pulls her head out of the clouds and begins to show some leadership in the House by accepting drilling for oil, but packaging it with a slew of non-carbon energy solutions into a bill that does seriously address the nation's energy issue.

Obama, to date, has counted himself among the 12 percent that strongly disfavor drilling for more US oil. I'll bet you a dollar he changes on that too (if he's willing to tout coal he'll pump oil too for the midwestern vote). What's particularly foolish is the claim that he advertises for being against offshore drilling-- that it will take 7 years before  the drilling delivers. But then, Obama has long hyped coal as the answer to the US energy problems, even though one of his potential VP's points out its even more of a long-term source, and hypothetical at that:

How far away from it are we? ... Most people I talk to say 10 to 15 years, if it ever exists at all. So as you look out at the next 25 years of energy policy of this country, that's a big "if."

Obama who likes to brag about his ability to bring bipartisanship solutions to DC, has positioned himself terribly in the debate, and Reid has not done much better. Unless the progressives in congress get off their butt and show some leadership, we are going to see a bill pass that gives everything to carbon-based exploration, and nothing toward renewable solutions. Hopefully Webb and Brown are able to bring more to the table beyond drilling.

 

 

Tags: 2008 (all tags)

Comments

106 Comments

Re: Energy solutions

So Obama is wrong on energy because he only supports one stupid policy ("Clean" Coal) instead of two?  

IF anyone can show that (1) oil companies are actually drilling everywhere we've already given them leases; AND (2) that drilling will actually have any impact on gas prices in the short or medium term, then I think you have a point Jerome.  Otherwise, why isn't point out the fact that this won't help a strong political argument?  If it doesn't help, it doesn't help.

by HSTruman 2008-07-11 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

or even the long term as everything I've seen has stated it going to be pennies on the dollar. What no one ever mentions if we took the money, resources and technology, used it on developement instead of exploration, we'd probably end up in far better shape. no one likes to be bold anymore i guess

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Yeah, we would be in far better shape on Energy had Reagan not trashed Carter's vision and plan for development of alternative enegery.  That regression has basically knocked us back 30 years, made oil companies even stronger and more influential ( both in profits and in increasing global dependence) all the while stalling the government to make any serious moves towards alt energy.  Thanks Reagan, I love going back in time.  

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:36PM | 0 recs
Drilling is good because Obama

opposes it.

Just like the gas tax giveaway to oil companies was good because he opposed it.

Welcome to Jerome Armstrong's alternate reality, where trashing the Democratic party nominee is more important than any single other principle or issue on Earth.

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Drilling is good because Obama

Yeah I notice how very bitter Jerome still sounds over Obama's primary win.  It makes sense why he posts so little these days.

by kasjogren 2008-07-11 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Drilling is good because Obama

Yeah, we'd all be better off if we chipped in for another ticket to Malaysia for him.

by The Animal 2008-07-11 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
You've got remember that this is the liberal blogosphere.
Obama's damaged goods to the Blog Birchers beacuise of FISA. And he's a Democrat, so the little old lefties in teniis shoes have to trash him at every turn.
by spirowasright 2008-07-11 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
BTW, Obama's also from a coal-producing state.
What's he supposed to do?
by spirowasright 2008-07-11 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

The oil companies do not need more leases, they need to use the leases they have. Shame of the Democrats for getting rolled.

by Alice Marshall 2008-07-11 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Has anyone looked into this?

http://www.pickensplan.com/

I have been seeing commmercials about this but have been unable to find any discussion.

by JustJennifer 2008-07-11 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

My opinion may be harsh and unrealistic but it needs to be said...On this subject we need to be treated like smoking addicts, we need someone willing to ween us off slowly since we're too deep to go cold turkey and make it. But drilling for more so we continue to indulge our addiction is not the answer

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Yeah I saw it the other day, Oil man turned natural gas.  I'd like to hear more experts discuss this.  And by experts I don't mean Oil lobbyists.  Keep us updated if you find anything, and vice-versa

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I actually went over the website and clicked on news.  There are quite a few articles coming out lately about his plan.  But yeah, I would like to see discussion amongst those who care about these things (and those in the know about the industry) before I make up my mind.

by JustJennifer 2008-07-11 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

yeah, i heard them talk about it briefly on the news a couple of weeks ago. Pickens is blasting the airwaves [or maybe just the Discovery Channel] with his ad. Personally, I think his plan is somewhat reasonable and possible. He's already made the move to wind energy- [ive seen his wind turbines across N.Texas] so why cant the rest of us? I not sure if the move to Natural Gas is possible because the auto industry has shown they are slow and unwilling to change their ways. and NGV [natural gas vehicles] are scarce at the moment.

by alyssa chaos 2008-07-11 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
You know this assshole funded the Swiftboats against Kerry ...right
http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/16/john-k erry-to-swift-boat-funder-t-boone-picken s-wheres-my-million-dollars/
by nogo postal 2008-07-11 02:30PM | 0 recs
True, but

that doesn't mean what he is proposing is per se bad.

It would be good to see someone with some expertise dissect his proposal.

I do wonder what's in it for T. Boone Pickens though.

by molly bloom 2008-07-11 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: True, but

molly, you should really familiarize yourself with a person's comment history before HRing them.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-07-12 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: True, but

I have a visceral response to anyone writing they will vote for McCain.

I changed your rating (before reading this) after I realized you were snarking.

by molly bloom 2008-07-13 05:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

If we can develop a viable wind energy policy then really who would give a shit?  Some things are bigger than politics.

by JustJennifer 2008-07-11 03:10PM | 0 recs
Hey, I have an idea.

Let's undercut our nominee despite his having done nothing wrong on the issue by pre-emptively accusing him of flip-flopping despite no supporting evidence whatsoever.

by Shem 2008-07-11 12:06PM | 0 recs
Is Jerome a member of the PUMA

movement?

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey, I have an idea.

Obama is damned if he does Damned if he doesn't.  FISA - evil bastard. Against Drilling of Florida because need to find alternative energy solutions - dumb ass!

Or even more simply
He's moving Center (or Right)- Triangulator, anything to win!!!
He's standing Firm on a progressive view - what a naive idealist!!!
He will Flip Flop anyway cuz I seyz so - Flip Flopper!!!

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:18PM | 0 recs
If Obama supports it,

it's a bad idea.

If he opposes it, it's a good idea.

I imagine Jerome will be endorsing McCain at some point.

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Hey look, it's Jerome!  He used to run this blog but I hear he's joined a gang.  That would explain all the drive-bys of late.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-07-11 12:09PM | 0 recs
Jerome bashing Obama for having

the right approach on drilling and also bashing him for a change that hasn't happened.

Good to see Jerome is still more concerned with trashing Obama than seeing him elected.  I was beginning to wonder what happened to him.

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:15PM | 0 recs
I look at it differently

Since when is "leadership" defined as "agreeing with the Republicans"?

by Adam B 2008-07-11 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: I look at it differently

the other day Obama was getting "Rolled" by Republicans by "agreeing with REpublicans)

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:26PM | 0 recs
Welcome to the Obama rules

here.

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome bashing Obama for having

"I was beginning to wonder what happened to him."

Wouldn't it be funny if Jerome was posing as Aliveandkickin and roxfoxy and all the others?

It would account for his absence.  But really I am just joking, that's way too harsh

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

No new Dereks of the CA coast.  I'll fight like hell for that one.

And Obama hasn't flipped.  Let's wait until/if he does before we crucify him over this, okay?  

Pelosi was weak on FISA, but she's strong on this.  Hopefully stronger than Hoyer.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-07-11 12:21PM | 0 recs
Obama doesn't need to do a single

thing wrong to get crucified by the usual deadenders.

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:23PM | 0 recs
Solution for Obama

Obama should challenge the Republicans and McCain to agree to a windfall profits tax on oil companies profits in exchange for permission to lift the moratorium on offshore drilling.  The tax would be put towards alternative sources of energy.  He can argue for this in the spirit of "compromise" and "bipartisanship."  McConnell will never agree to a windfall profits tax and will surely filibuster it.

Obama can make McCain and the pubs look silly for filibustering something they wrongly claim will help us with gas prices just because we wanted to tax big oil companies that are making off like bandits.

by Blazers Edge 2008-07-11 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Solution for Obama

Brilliant.  A moderate poison pill is exactly what he should introduce.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-07-11 12:22PM | 0 recs
Wow, Jerome

Terrible post, all over the board.

So compromise is "leadership" today, eh?  I seem to recall that two days ago leadership meant taking a principled stand.

And the difference between coal and oil is, of course, that Obama is talking about expanding the use of coal to meet predictable, long-term increasing demands in energy capacity.  That's a far cry from using a long-term solution like expanded oil drilling to solve an immediate pricing crisis.

I doubt Obama will flip on this, and will be disappointed if he does.  Democrats need to stop ceding frames to the Republicans--get out there and educate people why more oil drilling will do nothing to reduce prices at the pump.  If we educate the populace and get the polls facing the right direction, then the Blue Dogs will be less apt to defect and we might still stop this.

by BishopRook 2008-07-11 12:22PM | 0 recs
Just today he came out against

expanded drilling and pointed out what a sham it is.

Did you ever notice that Jerome doesn't take stands on issues until Obama does, and then takes the opposite position?

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Just today he came out against

Let's take it easy on Jerome, he is the creator of this playpen. Just because he occasionally gets his websites mixed up and forgets this isn't No Quarter doesn't mean he should be belittled. he is certainly entitled to his own reality if he likes it that way:)

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Just today he came out against

I think he does it just to rile us up sometimes.  Additionally, I don't want policy driven by uninformed answers to bogus poll questions.  Blah.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-07-11 12:30PM | 0 recs
Unbelievable...

you know that the gas tax is a scam.  It is a minimum BREAK that in the end will not save anyone, anything.  Clinton tried it and Indiana REFUSED it, North Carolina did not listen to it.  If Indiana would have embraced it she would have won the state by more than .08 percent.

And you also know drilling at this point is WORTHLESS, people won't see any results, if ANY for at least 5 years.

Any issue Obama puts out there, you negate it.  We know who won't be in the White House for any meet when Obama is president.

by Edna Howard 2008-07-11 12:28PM | 0 recs
Clinton won in Indiana

narrowly, but the fact remains that she won.

doesn't alter the fact that permitting more off-shore drilling leases is a bad idea.

let the oil companies use the leases that they have.

by Alice Marshall 2008-07-11 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
Stunned shocked and floored that instead of Jerome using this to point out McDrill..it's Obama
as for McDrill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoJ5UBxuR xk
by nogo postal 2008-07-11 12:29PM | 0 recs
You're surprised?

Really?

by Geekesque 2008-07-11 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

im not sure this is particularly helpful- throwing in digs at Obama? it only fuels the fire.

by alyssa chaos 2008-07-11 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

As long as it a coal-based fire, he won't have a problem with it.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Hahaha, I actually enjoyed that comeback, it was quite witty. See, guys, there are redeeming qualities even for the biggest concern trolls. I salute you, Jerome, and thanks for the place to hang out, we may not agree on much, but at least you created something that will outlast your bitter temper tantrum:) it is also nice to see someone willing to throw a diary together and when their facts are called into question, instead of back up, they make comments like this, classy man, classy. tell Susanunpc, Larry Johnson and Paganpower i said hello on the next Sinclair CC;)

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"facts called into question"

Really, where?

The votes are already there to pass offshore oil drilling alone. Its a stupid idea whose time has come.  

I advocate that democrats use it to tag onto it a host of renewable and conservation solutions.

So what fact is being called into question?

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I don't have time to run down the amount of people and quotes saying this is a ridiculous post by you. By the way, thanks for the warning, really, we've had people say far worse about the Dem nominee for president yet somehow they are still around, great priorities sir. I'm particularly sorry that I think people like you, who have trouble even a great man like Senator Obama has good qualities along with bad ones, are sad. Feel free to ban me for that, because I agree that I may get a little uppity when I look through your comment history and see you cheering on the primary wars less than a week ago, and that every one of your posts has digs at Obama, even before he has "crossed you yet again" like the end of this diary. But I have a better idea, let's set up a debate if you're really interested in going toe to toe on issues?

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"even seeing a great" should be the quote, prone to typos.

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Clean Coal is stupid.  I'll stipulate to that.  In neither of your posts on this topic have you addressed how increased drilling is anything but stupid as a policy position.  It would be nice if you'd atleast address the substance if you want to talk about energy policy.

Here, lets get the conversation started.  Obama says increased drilling won't affect gas prices for seven yeasrs.  Is he wrong?  

by HSTruman 2008-07-11 12:53PM | 0 recs
by Beren 2008-07-11 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Hell, that's what MCCAIN says!

Dr. Phil McCain strikes again.

by BishopRook 2008-07-11 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Hell, that's what MCCAIN says!

McBush agrees with Obama, so Obama should shift to McSame's position on drilling?

This diary should be deleted.

by Beren 2008-07-11 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Of course its a dumb idea, of course Obama is right, and its too bad that those are both beside the point.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

OK, so why should he compromise on this dumb idea on which he's right but it isn't politically expedient, but he shouldn't have compromised on the last one?  Is there some list of "good compromises" and "bad compromises" somewhere that we should know about?

by BishopRook 2008-07-11 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

It doesn't matter, Jerome?

It doesn't matter that he's right?

Really?

Really, Jerome?

Strange, and here I thought that was supposed to be the difference between "Us" and "Them."

You know.  We live in a reality based community, and they live in the politically expedient one.

At what point, Jerome, did you wake up and decide that it was less important to do the "Right Thing", than it was to do the "Wrong Thing For the Wrong Reasons Because Maybe Just Maybe Possibly It Could Be The Most Politically Expedient Possibly, Perhaps But Not Really In A Long Term Way As The Last Eight Years Has Shown Us And the Republican Party."

I guess this is a true division amongst the progressive movement...
There's the Paul Wellstone democrats, and then there's the Harry Reid Democrats.

Didn't you used to be the former?

(banhammer?)

by mrrara 2008-07-11 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I suppose I just disagree with you that (1) this issue is a huge winner for the GOP; and (2) that it's inevitable that they'll win this debate.  Call me crazy, but I was disappointed with Obama for not trying to win the argument over FISA and I'm disappointed that you don't think our nominee should try to win this argument when we all agree that McCain and the GOP are wrong.  

Honestly, why isn't OBama's current answer -- it won't help, and McCain is proposing gimmicks -- a political winner?  

by HSTruman 2008-07-12 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"Obambi" beat the three testicled Hillary Clinton.  That says a lot.  Why dont you SYFPH and go donate to Mark Penn's, I mean Hillary's debt relief.  Talk about a doomed campaign

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

What's the matter Chitown?  was it the SYFPH?  or the Three.  If it was the three, keep in mind that came fomr a Clinton Surrogate, remember?

And as for SYFPH, who the fuck comes on a democratic blog to say "Obamabi"'s campaign is doomed??  That's not allowed to get trashed?  Care to explain?

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 01:13PM | 0 recs
Drilling is not a solution

"Obama, to date, has counted himself among the 12 percent [who] strongly disfavor drilling for more US oil."

Obama other Democratic leaders should not pander to oil companies and disinformed public opnion. I trust Obama to make the right case effectively, just as he did with the bogus gas tax "solution."

by Beren 2008-07-11 12:44PM | 0 recs
Drill Drill Drill

They are drilling the gulg, they are drilling Appalachia, PA, the Rockie, CA and of course TX. They are drilling off the coast of Brazil, SE Asia, the Phillipines and all over the Middle East, Russia and Central Asia. We have the Saudis and Qataris telling us they have "plenty", but they are not increasing production.

Do you know, does anyone know, what goes into exploration and extraction? Do you know about the chemicals that are pumped into the ground to remove rock and, if lucky, oil? Do you know how they going about fracturing underground rock to free up supplies? If you did you might not be so quick to roll over for the Republicans and their benifactors in the oil industry. Are you aware of the massive spill off the coast of Russia last year? How about the disaster off Lebanon? All this for a six month supply of oil that MIGHT be off the coast of Florida?

Do you know how long it takes to determine whether and how much a field might yield before it even gets to the gas station? I do not anyone talking to me about bending over until they fully understand the consequences. And if you think the White House and the Congressional Republicans will accept more funding for alternative energy, I was whatever it is you are smoking.

by RandyMI 2008-07-11 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
"Hopefully Pelosi pulls her head out of the clouds and begins to show some leadership in the House...."
You speak more kindly of Pelosi than I ever could.
by ChitownDenny 2008-07-11 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
Thanks for the TR above, I forgot that bashing trolls is against the guidelines, b/c they are people too, right?  Care to explain? I usually do after I TR someone (which is like nearly never).
And so you know, I believe a user has HR'd the post that I responded to, so I am not the only one to find it offensive.  
by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

So you're suggesting I should have HR'd your comment as that commenter's comment was?  

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-11 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Good inference (snark).  No, explain why you TR'd me please, that's the least a reasonable member in this community could do to another.

by KLRinLA 2008-07-11 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

if you want to pass as a concern troll as opposed to a troll...drop words like "Obambi"

jist some friendly advice...

fer you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAvlYLCYO DU&feature=related

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
If anyone other than Jerome would have posted this..it would have been greeted as a troll post.
However,; I believe it is not possible for someone to troll their own site...
However for the trolls attracted by Jerome's crumbs on the water..
a little Friday night music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAvlYLCYO DU&feature=related
by nogo postal 2008-07-11 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I think it was nice knowing this site, something tells me we may be in jeopardy for a witty snarkiness regarding this;) Good luck

by Dog Chains 2008-07-11 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

the comments were about split-- half adamant in resistance, and half that acknowledged the political environment.

I'm too lazy to go back and see just how evenly split comments really were on that post.  (Not to mention the fact that acknowledging the political environment is not the same as endorsing bad policy.)  But just in case there's a later reference back to this diary, I'd better be clear that I am in the adamant in resistance pool.

Has Jerome ever said a single positive word about our candidate?  I'll even take something trivial about him having a nice haircut.  I'm just searching for crumbs here.

by January 20 2008-07-11 12:59PM | 0 recs
Energy solutions
  1. Ban incandescent lightbulbs.
  2. RAISE, not eliminate, the gas tax.
  3. Increase funding for public transportation, especially highspeed rail in desnly populated parts of the country.
  4. Fully fund Amtrak.
  5. Madate better emission and mileage standards to those at least equal to Japanese standards.
by RandyMI 2008-07-11 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Hmm.  Not one mention of alternative energy sources.  

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-11 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

But these are things we can do right away.

by RandyMI 2008-07-11 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Fair.  But we need long term solutions, and the conversation needs to start now.  You go, T. Boone Pickens.

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-11 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Agreed with everything except #1.  We shouldn't ban incandescent bulbs or favor fluorescent; that's too technology-specific.  What we should do is require a specific minimum efficiency in terms of lumens per watt.  There's some research being done on very highly efficient incandescent bulbs, for instance, as well as plasma bulbs which are in many ways similar to incandescent.

by BishopRook 2008-07-11 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Jerome, I admire you a great deal, and have been following your career almost since MyDD started all this craziness. I even supported Hillary Clinton. But this has got to be the biggest piece of blogging crap I've ever seen. Is this the only issue on which you're recommending not standing up for our principles, or are there others?

I suspect you know all about why, substantively, we can't drill our way to lower prices or energy independence. So it can't be a principled stand. What the hell is going on? Environmentalism is good until it matters, then it's to be tossed overboard because it's not politically expedient, even though it ACTUALLY IS?

by ColoradoGuy 2008-07-11 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Well said.  I particularly agree with your last sentence.

by HSTruman 2008-07-11 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Very well said!

by January 20 2008-07-11 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Can you not see through your dogma?  The NYTs showed that they wont even be able to drill. Its a bogus issue.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"I'll bet you a dollar he changes on that too (if he's willing to tout coal he'll pump oil too for the midwestern vote)."

You are on if you make it a gallon of gas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ZLTLyJZ pQ

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Once upon a time, public opinion did not favor Roe v Wade. During the 1978 election, polls for a time showed that the notiorious Prop 6 would pass in California (it failed). And I don't need to talk about public opinion toward desegregation in the South. You know, there are sometimes things worth fighting for and against.

by RandyMI 2008-07-11 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

About 15 years ago, most Americans didn't favor interracial marriage.  If only Obama was our nominee and Jerome was blogging back then... I can only imagine the hilarity.

by deepee 2008-07-11 02:20PM | 0 recs
I trust Sherrod

if they consider some form of it, they should throw in a "windfall profits tax" and invest the proceeds in renewable energy R&D.

by Betsy McCall 2008-07-11 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Apparently for a chunk of it (15%) drilling for more oil will help us reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Which is kind of interesting.

by MNPundit 2008-07-11 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I'm not for oil drilling because it isn't a long-term solution.  Whether it is our generation or our grandkids, we will have to tackle this someday.  I say we do it.  Ultimately, there is no supply-side solution to the oil problem - oil is a non-renewable resource.

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to some oil drilling (maybe even ANWR) being included in a larger, aggressive green energy plan, in order to bring Republicans on board.  We need some concrete goals for energy independence - say, x% foreign oil reduction over the next eight years.  If oil drilling helps us actually pass a plan that will work, then let's go for it.

by Daliant 2008-07-11 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Thats the sensible solution. We have to roll over the dogmatists in order to get there though, and they may just be stubborn enough to make the mistake of only allowing the republicans and conservative dems write this bill that gets  passed.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I really get at least something out of the threads by Todd and all the bloggers here but wow, Jerome is really losing me.  Does he ever have a thread that doesn't have an Obama swipe in it?  EVER?

by deepee 2008-07-11 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Too many durn typos on this site.

Please proofread! You look like amateurs.

by rpcvlawson 2008-07-11 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Ya know...
http://www.crashingthegate.com/

hey...we all change....

for Jerome..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGoEcIEv3 _Y

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

I just finished reading Crashing the Gate.  I thought it was pretty good.  

Being leery or even distrustful of politicians is not a bad thing.  I can't believe people receive so much shit for being cynical.  Obama or not, the state of our union is totally effed up.  

by JustJennifer 2008-07-11 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Oh please, spare us. Youve been a member here all of 7 days, lol.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-07-11 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
ya know....jerome..give a simple click.. nogo postal
comments... It appears you just maybe..could be wrong
for you to claim I have only been posting for 7 days..
this is for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLVCmqSAf Bs
by nogo postal 2008-07-11 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"posted by nogo postal on 05/27/2008 09:54:06 AM MDT"

Is this is your idea of 7 days?
I expect an apology...
but I doubt it...

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

hmmm
when i returned here,,
a notice
"You have been warned."
of course I agreed to the stipulations...
after all..
although I received this notice...
I was not provided a reason...
While i am still here click me...
Yeah..sometimes I over react..
however,; most of the time I am
kinda reasonable...
I remain a simple person..
one who has forced my local govt to arrest me
for non-violent civil resistance...
a person who has tried to inject music..
A person involved with Denver in Aug...
I received this after a comment regarding
Jerome..
If banned..cool..I will simply do what I had to do the last time I was banned..return under a new name...
a little Friday night music..
Peace/Dance/Resist
nogo postal/nogo war..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7ODJHUX_ EM

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 03:22PM | 0 recs
return under a new name...

It's actually a badge of honor around here.

by Beren 2008-07-11 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

oh yeah..
"You have been warned...

Thank you for acknowledging the warning.

Your account has now been restored to normal user status."

by nogo postal 2008-07-11 03:37PM | 0 recs
Very interesting and timely frontpage diary.

What do you think about the WBCSD?
http://www.wbcsd.org/templates/TemplateW BCSD5/layout.asp?MenuID=1

It seems that the business leaders are ahead of our political leaders..but then is it just a publicity stunt?

by louisprandtl 2008-07-11 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions
some of us agree with your words to me
"Oh please, spare us."
by nogo postal 2008-07-11 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Jerome thanks for your post. This drilling issue, as with the whole election, has become so surreal. There is no logic and common sense among so many.

1. OIL is the world's life blood. Without enough reasonably priced oil in the near future, our world living standards as we know it will decline in dramatic and unpleasant ways. I can hear the children crying now.

2. It will be a long time before we are able to fly airplanes, drive 18-wheeler trucks, or fuel the military with biofuels, batteries, or natural gas.

3. The NetRoot Democrats and other Pelosi liberals are stuck in the 1970's. No nuclear. No drilling. No war. The children won't understand this.

Changing Circumstances:  
4.00 gasoline
5.00 diesel fuel
New technology
Oil in the ground is not forever
China
India
Much of the world's oil is in the hands of DICTATORS, unstable underdeveloped govt's

Saudi Arabia
Iran
Iraq
Hugo chavez
Nigeria
Brazil

Get Real. This is 2008, not 1968/78.  
We will need oil for a long time as we innovate another world not dependent on it.

by EdgeCurrent 2008-07-11 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Energy companies currently aren't even fully exploiting the leases that they have.  This is a political football - period, which is actually the point of the diary: it makes no difference, so why not support it?

by MeganLocke 2008-07-11 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

"What happened to the progressive principle of... having principles?  The people I respect oppose both - that's how I know they're not just out looking for a stick to whack Obama with.

by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:50:08 PM EST"
----------------------------
Megan,
My car won't run on principles, it runs on gasoline made from oil. Your principles won't drive me to work, pay my bills and buy my groceries. This is real life I'm talking about.

by EdgeCurrent 2008-07-11 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

And slapping a bandaid solution on the problem is only going to make your real life worse.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the price of oil and gas isn't going down.  We're never going to see it under $3/gal again.  As demand increases and supply dwindles, it's only going to get more and more expensive--and I don't mean over the next 40 years, I mean over the next 5.

Mercedes is phasing out petroleum-powered cars in the next seven years.

If American car makers strongly commit to do the same, we could actually bring a manufacturing renaissance back to this country.  If they don't, if they let themselves get passed up again by the foreign automakers, then they'll quickly become relics in the dustbin of history.

When the course of the river changes, you don't try to swim against the current.  You'll only drown.  You have to figure out where the river's taking you and choose where you want to go based on that.

by BishopRook 2008-07-11 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Why does everything have to be either/or. We need drilling for oil to maintain our lifestyle until innovators and entrepreneurs establish the new energy infrastructures we need to create the future of energy. I'm sorry to tell you this but the future will take time to build, nothing happens overnight. So what do you propose for the short-term ? Until affordable alternative fuel for transportation becomes an everyday     reality ?

Your own comment proves my point:
"I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the price of oil and gas isn't going down.  We're never going to see it under $3/gal again.  As demand increases and supply dwindles, it's only going to get more and more expensive--and I don't mean over the next 40 years, I mean over the next 5."

Reality doesn't care about your principles and 1970's ideology. We will need all the oil we can find for years to come. I don't see producing domestic oil and gas as a "bandaid solution", I see it as transition solution and one part of a comprehensive energy plan.

Oil markets respond to good news and bad. It's past time for the US to get busy and implement a comprehensive energy plan. You'd be surprised at how world energy markets would respond if world traders believe the US is committed to a rational comprehensive energy plan. This could reduce uncertainty and fear in the markets and help slow the rise in the cost of oil. Doing nothing until our dreams come true is not an option. I'm sorry to tell you this.

by EdgeCurrent 2008-07-12 03:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Why does everything have to be either/or.

Opportunity cost.  Every single dollar that is spent vainly drilling for new sources of oil when United States oil production peaked forty years ago is a dollar not spent preparing us to transition off of oil.

I'm sorry to tell you this but the future will take time to build, nothing happens overnight. So what do you propose for the short-term? Until affordable alternative fuel for transportation becomes an everyday reality?

There is nothing that can be done in the short term.  New drilling projects will take 5-10 years to even start producing a drop of oil, and even then it will have almost no effect on gas prices.  Releasing the strategic petroleum reserve might somewhat lower prices for six months to a year until it's totally depleted, then we're in an even worse position than when we started.

Reality doesn't care about your principles and 1970's ideology. We will need all the oil we can find for years to come. I don't see producing domestic oil and gas as a "bandaid solution", I see it as transition solution and one part of a comprehensive energy plan.

And reality doesn't care about what any of us want.  United States oil production peaked in 1970 and is now in decline.  We produced less this year than we did last year, and we're going to produce less next year than we did this year.  It doesn't matter how many new oil platforms you build, it doesn't matter how deep you drill, the reality is that US oil production is going to keep declining as we tap out more and more of the "easy" resources.

The even starker reality is that world oil production is probably at its peak right now, and is going to begin declining in the next several years.

It's not going to happen gradually.  With demand growing exponentially and supply declining, oil is going to double, triple, quadruple in price, or even more, and it's going to happen within the span of a decade.  Remember, after all, that oil cost $12/barrel ten years ago.  That's a 1125% in ten years, and that was when supply was still increasing.

BTW, I was born in 1984, so it's unlikely I'm clinging to 1970's ideology.

by BishopRook 2008-07-12 05:40AM | 0 recs
Bullshit

This is just more Obama bashing.  Those of us who oppose drilling are now no longer the real Americans.   To me, the drilling issue is much more important than the FISA compromise.   If you are norw for drilling, than I give you a big Fuck You.  That goes for you especially Jerome.

When the oil companies finish drilling in all the places that they already have permission to drill than maybe we can start looking elsewhere.

I have zero sympathy for all those people driving big SUVs that get only 16 MPG.  It is the mess you made, deal with it.   Go buy yourself a smaller car.

Phil Graham was partially right.  Americans are a bunch of whiners.  The cheap oil from the late 90s was an anomaly due to the Asian financial crisis.   We are never going to move to alternative fuels as long as there is cheap oil.

This $4 a gallon gas is going to be the best thing that ever happened in the long run.

by monkeyga 2008-07-11 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Bullshit

Obama has already said that oil companies should "use or lose" their existing leases.  If a large reserve is found outside of existing leases, I'm fine with an oil company drilling there as long as they give up leased land that they don't plan to drill soon.  A little flexibility is not a bad thing.

by ScienceTeacher118 2008-08-01 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

There isn't a single argument for drilling (it's politically safe, it's going to happen anyway), that could not have been applied with equal validity to FISA.  The difference, as everyone has pointed out, is that Obama opposes one and supported the other.

What happened to the progressive principle of... having principles?  The people I respect oppose both - that's how I know they're not just out looking for a stick to whack Obama with.

by MeganLocke 2008-07-11 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Jim Himes knows what keeps CT-04's economy rolling, its the commuter trains that roll into Grand Central 30 times a day.

I hope any new exploration keeps in mind the energy needed to power our railroads. We need them more than gasoline to power our suburban New York economy. Hopefully other regions see the value of high density rail into the major city.

Still, this electricity for the rails is coal-based, just as it was 100 years ago. Hopefully the city of New Haven continues its now productive but historically (for the city) strange progressive streak and installs windmills all along the coast; it may be the future of electricity here. If not, we might be treated to another 20 years of acid rain and hot summers (but severely cold and snowy winters) here in CT.

by ctman1638 2008-07-12 01:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Energy solutions

Obama thinks this will help him win. And you must admit he has run a pretty remarkable campaign, so why should we assume this is a miscalculation? He thinks the "flip flop" meme is dead, and he is right.

I think it is interesting that everyone is prepared to so easily disown Obama. Have any of you seen the details of this compromise? I have looked, but haven't found them yet. Once I do, I will make a decision about this policy. Until then, I'll reserve my judgment.

by LandStander 2008-08-01 06:32PM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads