View from a Hillary supporter

Bumped from the diaries -- Josh

I've been a Hillary Clinton supporter right from the start of this campaign. I have lived and breathed this campaign since it's inception. I have followed every word and every poll. I have cheered and cried and whinned and everything else that happens in a race like this one. I have made all the arguments about electability, and experience, and the meaning of hope and change, and Florida and Michigan. By now I could probably recite it all in my sleep. I have waited anxiously for each Tuesday, and watched each result with anticipation. It has been quite a ride.

I believe now that it is all over, we are better off as a party because of it. We are better off as a nation because of it. After all, even with it's flaws, we have had a chance to be part of a democratic process in action. Yes, this is certainly what democracy looks like, and I am very grateful to have played a part in it.

Now we have come to the midway point in this marathon, and it is said that when you reach the 13.1 mile point in the marathon, you really have just begun. And it is the same in this political marathon, we have just begun.

There are many here that need to be congratulated for working hard for their candidate, and standing by him/her during a difficult and bruising process. One side has won, and the other has lost, but we are all democrats, so in a way we all have won, and we all have lost.

I congratulate the backers of Barack Obama. He is a great candidate, an inspiring person, and a wonderful democrat. If anyone had any doubts about it, please try to find the speech he gave in Minnesota on Tuesday evening. In my view it was absolutely awesome. I am proud to have him as the candidate of the democratic party.

It is now also clear that we will have a united party going forward in this election. Hillary Clinton will unconditionally endorse Barack on Saturday, and at the same time she will urge all her supporters to do the same.

By now it may be trite to say, but this election was never about Hillary Clinton, and it was never about Barack Obama, but it was about all the people who inhabit this wonderful country that we reside in.

Because further it is about a nation that needs to end a war that should have never started. And it is about a country where too many people are still in need of good health care. And it is about an economy that needs to be turned around. And it's about a need to build alternative sources of new energy. And it is about rebuilding our nations infrastructure, so that no more Katrinas can ever happen. And it is about stopping the attack on your civil liberties, so that we can continue to watch and be part of democracy in action for generations to come.

There are some who have been on the side of Hillary Clinton, who in their despair have forgotten all this. They find themselves filled with disappointment and as a result are predicting doom for our ticket, or they are reaching towards John McCain. I implore all of you to stop and remember why you are a democrat. Remember what brought you to this party, and don't throw it all away for the likes of  John McCain, and his band of neocons. Eight years has been more than enough of their policies.

So I ask all those who have been supporting Hillary Clinton to join in the fight against the republicans. Together we are an unstoppable force. We can retake the White House, and we can add 10 more Senate seats, and we can add 30 more House seats, but we can only do it if we are united.

As a former Hillary supporter, I will now give my full support to Barack Obama, and I am urging all Hillary supporters to join in this struggle for a democratic victory in November.

Tags: Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: View from a Hillary supporter

nice sentiment.

i salute you, pollbuster.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-04 08:18PM | 0 recs
It's a bit freaky

with the "i salute you" thing..

by lizardbox 2008-06-04 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: It's a bit freaky

hahaaa. right. i was gonna comment you something to the effect:

stop stealing my show.


get your own line.
hahaaa. but i was too lazy

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-04 08:25PM | 0 recs
Total coincidence

but moving forward, whenever I utter the words "I salute you", I'll add a couple of dashes and "alyssa chaos"

by lizardbox 2008-06-04 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Total coincidence

how nice of you. I feel a bit honored. heaha

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-04 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

beautiful my friend and you earn a rec from the X man.

by Xris 2008-06-04 08:20PM | 0 recs
I salute you


by lizardbox 2008-06-04 08:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I salute you

You are whom I salute!


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-05 06:06AM | 0 recs
Thank you!

And I've really enjoyed talking to you as an opponent; I'm sure it will be even better to talk as friends.  I really love this sentence:

One side has won, and the other has lost, but we are all democrats, so in a way we all have won, and we all have lost.

by nklein 2008-06-04 08:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Thank you very much, and I have enjoyed talking to you as well.

by pollbuster 2008-06-04 08:24PM | 0 recs
Hatchets Buried!

Beautiful post! Gonna go rec it at the Big Orange as well...

by RNinNC 2008-06-04 10:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

I second nklein.  Rec'ed.

by Jess81 2008-06-04 09:08PM | 0 recs
one quibble

i don't think anyone has lost. i think that we all have won.  with either choice, we were going to win.  i'm happy, obvs., that my choice came out on top. but i won't take anything away from the wonderful, dedicated footsoldiers in hillary's army.  i am grateful that we'll  be together going forward.

now let's go CRUSH mccain!

by annatopia 2008-06-05 05:47AM | 0 recs

It's sentiment like this that is going to carry us to victory in November.

by Mullibok 2008-06-04 08:26PM | 0 recs
But by your diary

we'd have to conclude that issues actually matter and effect the lives of real people?  ;)

Ultimately, the best of the supporters of any of the Democratic candidates were shooting for pretty much the same thing.  Of course when we hang those hopes on a person, a public figure, we get deeply invested in that person.  But as passionately as I supported Obama, my daughters matter to me more than Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.    As caught up in the emotions of the race I got I couldn't have allowed Hillary to lose to McShame and jeopardize the future of my girls.

I've found the worries about Hillary's supporters going en masse to McCain, not so worrisome.  I've always had faith that people like you would carry the day.  That the differences that divide us are nothing compared to the values that unite us.  (guess who I stole that from)

Thanks for putting this so well and a tip of my hat to another Democrat who worked their butt off in this campaign.  No way in hell can they stop us this year.  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-04 08:27PM | 0 recs
This is beautiful and it should be...

...cross-posted on DKos--if you're into doing that type of thing--noting its source blog, too!

If you don't have and account there, I'll do it for you (if you don't have the time to open one up there now).

Kudos for a great post!


by bobswern 2008-06-04 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: This is beautiful and it should be...

Yes I do have an account and I will cross-post it. Thank you for reminding me

by pollbuster 2008-06-04 08:37PM | 0 recs
Took 10 secs. to make it to DKos Rec List!

Just make sure you let everyone know that it's from the blog where all the cool people hang out! <grin>

by bobswern 2008-06-04 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Took 10 secs. to make it to DKos Rec List!


I guess theyre not so bad anymore?

anyways this was a great diary, i recced it and hope more diaries like this go on DKOS, and maybe a compilation could be submitted to huffpost and newsweek.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-04 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yes we can, thanks to diaries like these.

by Falsehood 2008-06-04 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Rec's, and a Salute.

by haremoor 2008-06-04 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'll drink to that, and a toast to Hillary Clinton and all of her loyal, hard-working supporters, too.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-04 08:35PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I was just thinking--imagine how the race this year would have been different if only Clinton or Obama had been running.

If only Clinton had run, the race would probably also have quickly come down to Hillary vs. one other person, most likely John Edwards, because without Obama, Edwards would have won Iowa.

If Edwards had run the same early course as Obama and run 11 wins in a row, I think Hillary would have dropped out. Edwards being our previous VP nominee would have been the one person who could make an honest claim to be "ready" more than Hillary, and there would have been a lot more pressure from the party for her to drop out. Conversely, if Edwards had not been able to hold on through Super Tuesday, Hillary probably could have buried him with fundraising and put him away early.

On the other hand, say only Obama had been running this year. If he and Edwards finished 1-2 in Iowa, it also would probably have quickly come down to those two, with Edwards likely coming much closer in SC, and probably winning NV on the basis of his labor support. That race might also have gone on for a while, but having seen Obama's amazing ground game in later states, I don't think Edwards had the same kind of team, and if he couldn't put Obama away early I think he would have faded.

But here's the difference--
If it had been one of them vs. Edwards (or vs Joe Biden), even if the primary went all the way, the dynamics between the two candidates would have been different. Both Obama and Edwards represented "change" constituencies. Both Clinton and Biden were "experience" candidates. Only Clinton and Obama, though, each presented a truly historic candidacy.

So, to cut this short, what I'm trying to say is the only reason things got so deeply divided is that both candidates represented something that so deeply inspired people.

And while only one can be president, I hope that once people realise exactly how much each campaign achieved in strengthening the base of this party, they will see just how unstoppable we will be in November, if we work together.

by 2501 2008-06-04 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter
I don't think Edwards had the same kind of team, and if he couldn't put Obama away early I think he would have faded.
Edwards *entire* strategy was to win Iowa and then work the mojo of the bounce. It wasn't a bad idea, but it just didn't have a chance against Obama. (I think it would have worked against Clinton). The thing is, though, Edwards had plans out *long* before Clinton or Obama on Health Care, poverty and a host of other issues and he did a lot early on to push them to become *much* better candidates, so even with his early exit from the racing, having him in it from the start made for some real benefits in the campaign.
by juliewolf 2008-06-05 01:14AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Edwards had a health care plan before Hillary? I don't think so.

by SophieL 2008-06-05 03:39AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter
Edwards had specific plans out on health care long before Clinton or Obama. Clinton may have had a plan before that, but she wasn't sharing it with anyone.
by juliewolf 2008-06-05 06:26AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

with all due respect - and Edwards was my first choice with Obama my second - the fact that Clinton did not have the nuts and bolts of a healthcare plan posted before Edwards is hardly relevent given her work on the issue in the 1990's.  Yes, the republicans body-slammed her initiatives, but she was in the lead long before polls showed a clear majority in favor of universal healthcare.

by edparrot 2008-06-05 09:08AM | 0 recs
thank you for a great post!

by slinkerwink 2008-06-04 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I think we will all be quite pleased with the platform Obama lays out soon. Between Edwards and Clinton, he HAS to adopt one of their universal healthcare plans, and I would hope he'll pull on a couple of other key ideas that they want him to push as well.

by vcalzone 2008-06-04 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

No way.  His non-mandatory plan was aimed at the GE, not the primary.  It was an unpopular position among Dems, but will do better against indies and repubs.  He won't change it now.  Maybe after the election, when the Dems are firmly in charge, he could try to push the envelope.

by nwgates 2008-06-05 10:35AM | 0 recs
Wonderful post

Mojo for unity.

It's been nice to see so much coalescence around the nominee in just a couple of days. I believe more than ever that after Saturday and Clinton's endorsement of Obama, the number of voters threatening to jump to McCain will plummet. Sure, some will hold out and come back later. Some will never come back. But the majority of those not sold on Obama yet will come over very soon.

by elrod 2008-06-04 09:10PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Beautiful diary. I commend you.

by ragekage 2008-06-04 09:15PM | 0 recs


Let's beat McSame's ass.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 09:16PM | 0 recs
Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!

In honor of the recently departed Harvey Korman and his wonderful role as Hedley Lamarr in Blazing Saddles I will just say......


Give the governor a Harumph!

by pattonbt 2008-06-04 09:18PM | 0 recs
Rising to my feet...

Bravo, bravo, bravo!

by LoosCanN 2008-06-04 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Great diary, and a pleasure to rec.

"this election was never about Hillary Clinton, and it was never about Barack Obama, but it was about all the people."

I'll sign up for that. Bush/Cheney is all BC. Looking forward to AD, anno Democrats.

by catilinus 2008-06-04 09:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Ad = After Dean's election to DNC chair

by edparrot 2008-06-05 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I sincerely hope that Hillary suspends her campaign, not quit totally. Where she still retains her delegates. She won more votes than Obama. She certainly earned her delegates. And most of her supporters, me included, want to have a strong part in the future of our Democratic Party.

A lot can change in 3 months of GOP attacks till the convention.

by True Blue Dem 2008-06-04 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Your views are poisonous.  You're actually hoping something happens so that Hillary can step in?  Did you even read the post?  It's not about HER, for goodness sake.  Grrrrrrrrrrrr

by lollydee 2008-06-05 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I originally supported Obama but switched to Hillary last fall after observing a number of the debates.  I am proud of that choice. Obama is a great candidate and I think he can be a good President.  I will vote for him in November because I am a loyal Democrat that has always pulled the lever for the party's nominees.

My level of support for his campaign will depend on the kind of judgment he shows in uniting the party and picking a VP.  

My first preference is for him to pick Hillary as VP.  She is the most qualified by far in my view. I am not conditioning my vote for Obama on that.  That wouldn't be fair to him as the nominee.  However, I am conditioning my level of enthusiastic support for him based on how he arrives at that decision.  

When Bill Clinton picked Al Gore it had a universally unifying effect on the party.  Jerry Brown led a significant number of disgruntled Democrats long after Clinton had essentially wrapped up the nomination.  Picking Gore showed that Clinton had no insecurities about choosing someone who was arguably more qualified for the job and who probably would've beaten him had Gore decided to run for President in 1992. Gore was universally regarded as a great pick from all wings of the party, and people saw Clinton in a new light.  They began to trust that this young man had the judgment to be President.

Obama has the same challenge and needs to make that kind of pick.  Clinton, Clark, Edwards, Biden, Bayh are the types of picks that can really help.  Choices like Sebelius, Napolitano, Daschle will not give confidence in his leadership.

by khyber900 2008-06-04 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Bravo, thank you.  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-04 10:08PM | 0 recs
Count me in!

by aurelius 2008-06-04 11:42PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

She plotted a par 72 strategy on a par 70 course. That's my view as a Hillary supporter and it's damn tough to rationalize. Forfeiting the presidency, nothing serious. Mark Penn should be airlifted, like the final scene in The Blob.

Minus Florida and Michigan it was masochistic to forge a big state agenda. It's like Tiger Woods' record in the majors, 50% dominant on par 72 layouts then dramatically worse on 71 or 70. Take away the four par 5s and he's more ordinary, his prime scoring opportunities gone. Similarly, Hillary had to know once Michigan and especially Florida were iffy at best she couldn't sidestep all those backroads states in February.

Hillary essentially birdied/eagled the par 5 states, parred the par 4s, but triple bogeyed the tiny par 3 states, and that's a losing card on a level like this.

"Well, I guess I'm an Obama girl now." That was my sister's summation via email today. She's hardly enthusiastic. Nor am I. This may be the first Democratic nominee I support minus any passion for the candidate himself. As much as I liked Obama during the early stages, his arrogance during stump speeches beginning in perhaps mid March masterfully pushed me aside. He was clearly annoyed Hillary wouldn't abandon and that impacted his facial expression and tone for 2+ months. Last night was an energetic improvement but it lacked clever and memorable phrases or themes. It starred only in comparison to get-the-hook McCain.

Obama vs. McCain will be like the old Battling Tops game from my youth, Change vs. My Friends.

What's the over/under on use of those terms, now until November? Got to be staggering.

Give me change. But with Obama I'll always feel shorted.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-06-05 12:32AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yeah... I barely understood what you said there. I'm guessing it has something to do with golf. :-)

by Aris Katsaris 2008-06-05 02:46AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yeah - at the beginning I thought how great that we have so many good candidates but as it narrowed I really started getting annoyed at Obama's comments and expressions. He was constantly using republican talking points and labeling her as a liar , grasping and dishonest. You don't do that to a fellow democrat especially since those are the how the repugs have labeled the Clintons for 2 decades. Then I watched the Texas debate and couldn't believe the grinding of his teeth and the barely controlled anger he showed.

No sorry- I will vote for and support every democratic candidate on the ballot in November except Obama. It is also his arrogance that will prevent him from putting Hillary on the ballot and reuniting the party. That is sad because Obama will lose in the fall without that  critical group of voters that she can bring. Does no one understand that the "inevitable" winner should not have lost 8 of the last 16 contests. But after watching the dems lose to an incompetent George Bush in 2004 simply because of a purple band-aid I guess we are our own worst enemy.

It is hard to be a democrat.

by Bornagaindem 2008-06-05 04:44AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

you're really in the wrong place if you're still beating the "I'm not voting for Obama no way, no how" drum. If you can't even bring yourself to say something conciliatory in a diary like this, then don't say anything at all.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-05 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Ummm, if Obama lost 8 of 16, and no winer should lose 8 of 16, my math would tell me that Hillary also lost 8 of 16, so, ummm, by your logic, neither should be the nominee! That's funny:)

by alectimmerman 2008-06-05 03:52PM | 0 recs
I'm a Hillary supporter

and arranging now through private email to pay my lost bet of a couple of months ago: 085/31235/141#141

I contacted JDF on Tuesday night, as soon as the results came across that Obama had crossed the finish line.

We two characters (and I hope he doesn't mind that I publicly speak of him) have exchanged friendly and understanding emails between each other both respecting the position and cheering section of the other.

We've always been on friendly terms, even as I prepare to mail off to him the $50.00 I lost on our friendly wager.

Key point I wish to make is that we are all Democrats and family. Show me one family that doesn't argue among themselves and I'll show you the script from an old movie titled, "The Stepford Wives".

To my good friend, JDF, and all you other Obama supporters congratulations on a race well run.

Please allow me a little space to elbow my new-found way into your ranks.

Both my wife and I have set aside some money for political contribution this election cycle. We doled out some to Hillary (sent another thank-you contribution to help her campaign debt tonight, as matter of fact) during the primary battle. We carefully kept the majority of our contribution money for the general election.

Hope you have done the same. This race is far from over and Barack will need even more money as this race runs down to November.

No way is John McCain going to beat Barack Obama if our humble contributions can help it.

Good luck and God bless, Barack. We're in your corner now!

by RickWn 2008-06-05 01:50AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

While I have sore feelings as well, I am sure that the great unifier for all of us will be McCain, whose attacks on Obama will be outrageous and un-American.

by Bob H 2008-06-05 02:34AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I would strongly recommend that any Clinton backer (like myself) who's struggling to make the switch spend an hour or so with a couple of small-minded Conservatives.  

I did the other day -- I observed the secret-code arched eyebrow pursed lip exchange of knowing looks over  "that" Barack {Hussien}Obama -- I saw the utter flagrant detachment from and disinterest in the plight of the poor working class, the disadvantaged and those in desperate need of healthcare.

After spending some time with the TRULY bigotted, small-minded, self-congratulatory, tight-assed believers in economic natural selection, any Clinton supporter still clinging to the notion that Obama is the enemy needs their head and heart examined.

Go talk to a real conservative Republican.  Feel their disgust at a "one of them" serving as their president and then come back here.  There is an ugly element out there to fight, but they traditionally don't vote Democratic.  

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-06-05 03:08AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

An hour or so? 15 minutes ought to do it.:)

by pollbuster 2008-06-05 03:46AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yeah, what you said.

I am a Hillary supporter, to the last minute of the last day, as the saying goes. I am wondering where I'm going to get even a tenth of this kind of energy for Barack. I have been playing with the idea of just voting downticket. I am waiting for him to say or do something that makes me want to pick him rather than get stuck with him.

But I would never vote FOR McCain and would never encourage any other Dem to do so.

by SophieL 2008-06-05 03:50AM | 0 recs
Reasonable position

Not everyone's gonna like Obama.  The only nominee I've ever voted for with any enthusiasm was Dukakis, and part of that is that he was from my home state.   Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry were OK, but I wasn't enthusiastic.  I would have felt the same way abut voting for HRC, but I would have done it of course.  I will be happier voting for Obama, but the only way I would have been truly enthusiastic is if Edwards won.

I even understand the Clinton supporters who feel like they can't vote for Obama.  What's hard to understand is if they actually want to vote for Mccain - they can't have been listening to anything Hillary stands for.

by edparrot 2008-06-05 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'm only voting down-ticket.

by mmorang 2008-06-05 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

have some mojo.... because, well, wow...  well said.

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-05 04:02AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

When a DKos poster claimed there was no difference between Clinton and McCain, here's how I responded:

Let me go out on a limb and bet that you don't have small children who will have to suit up for McCain's 100-years-in-Iraq-bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran strategy.  For those of us who do, there's a stark difference between HRC and McSame.

It is a strong comment, and on most days I would probably not use such presumptuous language.  However, I do happen to have small children, and I am asking you as their father, please consider voting for Obama at the top of the ticket too.

by blank 2008-06-05 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Never, I will never support Obama.

by handsomegent 2008-06-05 03:21AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Never is a very long time.

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-05 04:02AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

No just 150 days or so.

by handsomegent 2008-06-05 04:09AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

No never is longer than that.

you said you would never support Obama.

So, after he is elected President, you will not support him then either one would presume.

by JenKinFLA 2008-06-05 04:27AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

That is because you are a Republican , duh!

by alectimmerman 2008-06-05 03:54PM | 0 recs
Words of wisdom, pollbuster. MyDD

is, imho, shining like a star these past few days. I am proud to be a part of this community. And it is folks like you, pollbuster, and a whole bunch of Hillary and Obama supporters who are showing how it's done...McCain should just send in his resignation right now.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-06-05 04:07AM | 0 recs
I'm in

You can count on me in the fight to beat McCain.

Hillary Clinton was my first choice, Obama was my 3rd or 4th... but I am a lifelong Democrat. Period.


by twinmom 2008-06-05 04:53AM | 0 recs
It's difficult for this Hillary supporter to have

any enthusiasm for Obama.  Maybe when the media hype slows down a bit.  Still don't think he's qualified but my hope is that he will pick competent people to help run the country as he did to run his campaign.  Very very disappointed that Hillary lost the nomination.  Will vote for Obama because the thought of John McCain or any republican for that matter in office is terrifying.  But as I've been saying to the numerous people from the Obama campaign who have be phoning to solicit votes, he has my vote but not going to give him any money.

by laternighter 2008-06-05 05:00AM | 0 recs
Re: It's difficult for this Hillary supporter to h

It's always tough when your candidate loses, but Obama is identical to the rest of the Democrats who ran and lost on the VAST majority of issues.

Whatever their differences, rest assured that he'll make compromises to engage their supporters...and that includes Hillary supporters.

So welcome, and let's elect a progressive agenda into the White House. That is something any Democrat should be excited about.

by Reeves 2008-06-05 05:26AM | 0 recs
Thank you!

Hillary Clinton is still the New York state Senator. And there's a good chance she'll be taking on new and important roles in the future. Barack Obama will carrying our ideas and values to the Whitehouse. We are all Obama and Clinton supporters.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-06-05 05:34AM | 0 recs
I liked everything about Obama's speech except

the part where he said he wanted to give affordable health insurance to everyone who wants it.  

This is no joke.  I honestly had a smile on my face the entire speech, and was taking two steps forward towards supporting him now that Hillary is out, when I heard that, cringed, and took one step back.

I'll still vote for the guy, but his healthcare platform, which I find to be the most important election issue, just drives me nuts.  

People are irresponsible.  Millions of them only have car insurance because it is against the law not to.  Millions of Americans only have enough money to eat and have a roof over there heads as seniors because the government forced them to save for social security.  If Obama doesn't make health insurance mandatory, I will be paying out of my own pocket for some asshole who spends all his money on cigarettes and lottery tickets, while I'm busting my ass and being responsible.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-05 05:54AM | 0 recs
Healthcare is a complex mess, imho BO's

approach is the most likely to work.

I am so all over the map on healthcare even I am not sure what my position is.  At least for the exercise of trying to figure out what it is, lemme put some points down:

o  Lived in Canada half my life, in ~5-year chunks spread out from teens to 40s.

- the ability for everyone to run out and get fixed-up is wonderful.

- the limits on choosing how/where/when you get fixed up are at best frustrating

- the gov't deciding who can study medicine and who cannot is infuriating

- the built-in cost to everything in society is troubling

- the ennui and cynicism of Canadian medical staff is dispiriting

- watching Canadian pharmeceutical companies break patents so they can sell drugs that US companies spent hundreds of millions developing does huge damage to the R&D that otherwise saves lives.

o  All of the US Health Insurance companies have been my customers at one time or another.

- I've seen their corporate headquarters'.  Hundreds of millions of dollars on fancy atriums full of antique cars that makes no-one any healthier...

- I met a former Aetna exec on a plane.  She had left and started a patient's rights group after losing all faith in the industry.  Her words: "There was an unwritten rule that if an adjuster quit, all the files on their desk were destroyed.  That way, the patient had to fight to prove they had a claim, and we always made more money.."  Health Insurance companies increase their profits by denying healthcare - a twisted business model even to a freemarket capitalist like me...

o  I have watched friends declare bankruptcy over medical bills.

- including young families, veterans, succesful executives...

o  I follow the science.

- medicine was cheap 100 years ago, because there wasn't any.

- medicine imho will be cheap again in 100 years, because the Big R&D will be finished and economies of scale will rule

- in the meantime, it will be possble to save your daughter's life if you can afford the $10M that will be necessary to cover the cost of developing a procedure that will be obsolete five years later. It is fiscally impossible for the nation to spend what it will cost to develop and deliver all of the medical treatments all of the population will need...

This is at least one topic where I don't have a clue what the right answer is.  But I like Obama's position because it can improve a situation that I don't think has a solution...


by chrisblask 2008-06-05 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Healthcare is a complex mess, imho BO's

Actually his plan is designed to fail. It allows for massive freeloading. I would rather have NO plan than Obama's plan. It pretty much makes things even worse than they are right now believe it or not. Unless there is some sort of mandate there will be no way to control costs.

by Ga6thDem 2008-06-05 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Healthcare is a complex mess, imho BO's

I guess we will find out, but "designed to fail" indicates that you think his entire approach is a complicated lie with some Evil Purpose behind it.  The only way I can see to embrace that belief is to go some way down the road to embracing all sorts of un-dis-provable Conspiracy Theories.  Having a friend who died on the plane that so many fervently swear did not fly into the Pentagon, I am rather skeptical of conspiracy theories...

I find Conspiracy Theories harder to believe than whether any healthcare approach put forth will work or not.

by chrisblask 2008-06-07 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Healthcare is a complex mess, imho BO's

No I don't think it has an "evil purpose". I just think that it's inept and poorly thoughtout.

by Ga6thDem 2008-06-08 03:01AM | 0 recs
Re: I liked everything about Obama's speech except

Unfortunately, none of these plans make that much of a difference. Universal health insurance is not the same as universal healthcare.

Health insurance is not easily portable between jobs, discriminates on pre-existing conditions, and finds every reason possible to make you pay for treatment. And I'm talking about the corporate-sponsored variety.

God help you if you're paying for it all out of pocket.

On this point, Obama and Clinton both have a lot of work to do. Both of their plans are mere stepping stones toward the single-payer option we must eventually move toward.

by Reeves 2008-06-05 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I liked everything about Obama's speech except

Both Clinton and Obama's plans address at least the pre-existing issue.  Which IMO is in the top three problems w/healthcare (the others are the overall cost to the country and the fact that so many people don't have it)

by edparrot 2008-06-05 09:22AM | 0 recs
good diary

i'm an obama supporter so obviously I like any of these types of diaries but I have to say you really captured his message.  

I give respect to Obama for giving the message but lots of respect to you for making it your own and delivering at just as eloquently.  


by ab03 2008-06-05 05:58AM | 0 recs
I am completely crushed at this point.

I cannot express my disappointment, it is too great.

But, I am working towards getting on board with putting Obama in the White House.

It is just going to be a slow migration over to his side for me.  I don't like what went down during this campaign in regards to Hillary.

But, I will come around.

by Al Depansu 2008-06-05 07:34AM | 0 recs
I'm with you

My motto right now is that hopefully by the fall I will be able to vote for Obama with enthusiasm... but if not I will vote against McCain with enthusiasm.

It amounts to the same thing in terms of my vote, for Obama... but I do hope that he manages to win me over.

Trying to keep an open mind.

by twinmom 2008-06-05 07:49AM | 0 recs
I hear ya

by Al Depansu 2008-06-05 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm with you

It is comments like these that remind me why I am a Democrat.  Republicans don't write conciliatory messages to each other after a vicious primary battle.  Thank you.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-05 09:07AM | 0 recs
Sorry, this won't work.

You don't knife someone, spit in their face and then say now let's heal or you're a sore loser.

4 years from now, vote for the right candidate, and not who Kos was paid to lead you to.

by layer cake 2008-06-05 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry, this won't work.

Haha, I think this comment counts as non sequitur of the year.  Neither I nor Obama is calling anyone a sore loser, so I don't know what you are talking about there.  Obama clearly IS the right candidate, since he won the primary.  And Kos' website does a hell of a lot more for downticket Dems than either you or this site.  So take your sour grapes elsewhere.  There.  That's calling someone a sore loser.  Enjoy.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-05 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: I am completely crushed at this point.

I will not come around as things stand right now.

Hillary didn't even tell Obama that she was endorsing him Saturday. He is disrespecting the 18 million people who showed up to support her by not picking her as his running-mate. Its his decision and its ours as well.

by mmorang 2008-06-05 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I am completely crushed at this point.

I've seen more people - online at least - who proclaim that they wouldn't vote for him even if he does select her as VP. Trying to please these deadenders isn't even be a factor, as it will change nothing. If he chooses her, it will be because she was the best choice, not because you feel she deserved it.

by mechascorpio 2008-06-05 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: I am completely crushed at this point.

If he chooses her it will be because it's in his political interest to do so and not for any other reason. She's one of the most qualified candidates in history, so her qualifications will not be an issue at all.

by mmorang 2008-06-05 01:07PM | 0 recs
When will there be consequences?

At this point, I'm feeling more disgust than disappointment.  I don't know how many times the rec'd diary on dKos started out, "Why I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton."  To say nothing of all of the non-Progressive strategies used to support Obama and get him the nomination.

My heart really broke Wednesday morning when my 14 year old daughter took a look at the front page of the newspaper.  "Hillary lost," was all she could say.  But the tone in her voice ...  She sounded like you must feel.

So I'm thinking what is the best way that I can use my vote on her behalf?  Do I fall in line?  I certainly don't want to see McCain become President.

But, when will there be consequences for those Obama supporters who were willing to sell out so many progressive values in pursuit of victory?  So many willing to say anything or do anything just to get Obama the nomination.

There's no way I'll ever vote for McCain.  But I'm  not sure that I will be able to vote for Obama.  I always have the option of writing in Clinton.  If people on the Dem blogs want to throw me out for such a transgression, so be it.

by dbrown04 2008-06-05 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: When will there be consequences?

I'd definitely hope you might think about voting for Barr, but a Hillary write-in is respectable, and a lot better than voting for McCain.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-05 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: When will there be consequences?

"Vote for Barr"??? Either you know nothing about him or you are not really a progressive.

by Do Something 2008-06-05 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: When will there be consequences?

Ha, is this snark?  You do realize I mean voting for Barr as a way to take votes from McCain, right?

by ProgressiveDL 2008-06-06 03:59AM | 0 recs
Re: When will there be consequences?

I am a young woman.  I will be going to law school.  Being a lawyer is a profession where you hit an evident glass ceiling if you choose to start a family.  I weighed both candidates and decided Obama  was the better choice.  

Your little girl was right in being upset that Clinton lost.  But we are nominating the first black candidate for president. This is a remarkable thing.  It helps pave the way for more women, more minorities, etc.  Clinton and Obama's positions are remarkably similar.  I ask you to vote for Obama because of your little girl.  We could lose up to maybe three Supreme Court members in the next few years (most of the more liberal court members).  For reproductive rights and equal pay please vote Obama.  He is a man and he has two young little girls also.

by ScienceTeacher118 2008-06-05 10:19PM | 0 recs
What about the next time?

OK, suppose I vote for Obama this time around.  Then the next time a women is running for President the same sexists and mysognists come out of the woodwork and use the same strategy to defeat her that were used against Clinton.  Is that what's best for my daughter or is it best to take a stand right now?

I was struck yesterday by a story on WBUR that the number of cases of domestic violence that end in murder doubled in Massacuhsetts between last year and this year.  Frank Rich did an editorial a couple of months ago about the rampant violence against women in the United States.

Then I look at what was done to Hillary on dKos, just as an example.  I think, maybe today's the day to draw a line in the sand.  Today might be the best opportunity for women to stand up and say "enough."

You think a warning to dKos that "the next time you treat a female candidate the way you treated Hillary Clinton, I'm going to abandon the coalition?"   From my perspective, this is the "next time."

by dbrown04 2008-06-06 04:08AM | 0 recs
Re: What about the next time?

I can't speak for Kos, but I am not anti-women.  I was just anti-women-who-voted-to-give-the-preside nt-the-authority -to-invade-iraq.  i thought obama would be better than hillary, and neither race nor gender was nearly as important as previous actions or future plans...

if you think that what's best for your daughter is to support mccain, i'll make sure to save up my coathangers in case she needs them in the next four years...

by ScienceTeacher118 2008-06-09 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

nicely done. rec'd.

by wasder 2008-06-05 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Very nice diary.

Thanks for writing it. You know, if the shoe had been on the other foot I would have gladly worked for and voted for Sen. Clinton. No matter what my differences there's no way on earth I would want to be part part of dooming millions to McCain.

Life isn't perfect and neither is Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton but both are 1000% better than McCain. Now it's time for all Dems to crush the GOP, put Sen. Obama in office as president and start to change our country for the better. It won't be easy, mistakes will get made, but if we're all vigilant the end result will be a better USA.

by Bastet 2008-06-05 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I wish I could join in your enthusiasm, but I'm a bit tired of the media-created, blog-driven politician of new.

Barack Obama will NOT get my support in November, but neither will McCain.  I liked McCain back in 2000, but now he's just a shell of the man he once was.  

Perhaps, if he gets the energy he had back then and pulls in the moderate conservatives, Republicans and Independents, he will give Obama run for his money.

I believe all this "negative" press around McCain and the Republican Party is a ruse to lull Obama followers and some Democrats into complacency or at the very least, delusions of grandeur.  But like many, many women, I done with the Democratic Party. ontent/political_commentary/commentary_b y_froma_harrop/white_women_take_the_glov es_off

And it's about time.  

by stefystef 2008-06-05 10:56AM | 0 recs
My wife is with you on this.

I think that it is very clear from the way things went down that this country tolerates sexism far too much, and finds it far too easy to demonize any woman, especially a powerful one.

Still and all, two wrongs don't make a right, and I really fear supreme court justice choices with more republicans in the white house, especially one like mcCAIN.

by Al Depansu 2008-06-05 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yeah...I am feeling just like the people quoted in the article you linked.  Except the fact that I can't bring myself to vote for a Republican.  Won't happen.

Not only am I pissed for myself but I am really pissed that the Democrats have risked this election by allowing rampant sexism and Hillary-hate to go unchecked because it was helping their chosen candidate.  

Now people want to step up and say "hey, that was happening and it's wrong".  Wow, how astute.  Not.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-05 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Unifying the party is the responsibility of Obama. So far he hasn't tried. We'll see if he does try.

by Ga6thDem 2008-06-05 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

No matter what he says or does, you will never be convinced that he has already started. Furthermore, as you are a self-proclaimed proud independent voter, I suspect you don't even care. That's your pride right there.

by mechascorpio 2008-06-05 12:51PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

You're probably right. But the still endless Bill is a bad man and Hillary threw an almost guaranteed opportunity to win the White House away because of X in the same place where people are espousing unity does not help. At all. The media is still doing what the media has done for ever. They want Hillary to be beaten - at length. They want Obama supporters (which include most Hillary supporters already) to act out and feed off the Hillary hatred. They want her to have been forced to concede after all her previous supporters took her by the throat and said listen up. They are still acting out their hateful harangues and it is not helping.

Nobody is forcing Hillary to do anything. Neither she not her supporters work for the media or exist to create tittilating and dramatic stories. We will not be wanked around by them. Things take time and Hillary has already endorsed Obama several times. Things are moving very, very quickly. No one is giving her ultimatums or threatening her with the end of her political career except those people whose goal was always to see that happen anyway.

If all the posters here and on the internet would just adopt some of the intelligence and grace of Obama himself, and get over themselves at the same time, we would realize that the unity thing that they are saying is their motivation is already in full swing.

People who say they are going to vote for McCain for any reason do not belong here. They are just hanging around to suck up intelligence and piss people off. Or they are Republicans. An Independent label does not prevent anyone from being a Republican if they state they are voting for McCain. There is no similarity whatsoever between Hillary's policies and McCain.

There is really very little difference between Obama's and Clinton's. This is all just about people needing to be heard and taking advantage of an opportunity to vent. Those who want to vote for McCain should just leave, however. You obviously never supported Hillary in the first place or really cared about what she was fighting for if you are able to state that you intend to vote for McCain. She has asked her supporters many, many times not to vote for McCain. She has asked her supporters to vote for and work for Obama. You're obviously a past Clinton supporter if you are unwilling to do that.

by Jeter 2008-06-05 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'm mechascorpio, and I approve of this ^ message. :)

by mechascorpio 2008-06-05 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

great diary.  

You know, i was a huge obama supporter from day one.  I got an obama button before he even threw his hat in the race, for chrissakes!

However, if hillary (or any of the others) had won the primary, i would still have busted my ass to get them elected.  Kerry was not my top choice, and in retrospect, he was probably not the smartest candidate to run in 2004.  BUT, even though he didn't initially light my fire, i worked my ass off for him.  And by November, boy i was fired up and ready to go!

now's the time to unite the party.  we can quibble among ourselves about the details (the candidates), but when push comes to shove, we're fighting for the same things.  Time to show a united front.  

Down with Bush-McCain!

by bluedavid 2008-06-05 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Actually over the last month or two, I am starting to agree with you that the Long Campaign helped us.  If it had gone to Denver, then no, but since it ended now, I'd say it worked very very well.  It raised excitement.  It brought out new voters.  But even better, it made BOTH of our candidates better.  Obama improved as a campaigner and debater as we went on.  I'd say he has probably been fully vetted now and he learned how to handle a political shitstorm, such as Kerry faced with the Swifties.  He learned how to hit his opponent and keep the opponent on the defensive.

If Hillary had won, she would have learned from this as well.  She learned how humanize herself as the campaign went on.  She became a better more strategic campaigner later in the game as well (over the last two months especially.)  She learned to change on the fly and adapt instead of staying rigid.  Honestly, had she learned this faster, there is a good chance she would have won this thing.  

Personally, I think McCain is going to be beat... badly this fall.

by yitbos96bb 2008-06-05 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

The cries of the campaign hurting Democrats was just part of the coercion campaign to get Clinton to drop out to give Obama an easy ride, as he's had his whole political career.

Indeed, just as prosecutors prep witnesses for what they might get from the defense (and vice versa), so did Hillary Clinton do Obama a big favor.  We saw how rattled he got in debates when challenged and how shaken over the Wright stuff and other bombs. Imagine if that had all happened during the General.

He'd have sunk like a stone.

Clinton may well be responsible for Obama winning in November.

by Juno 2008-06-05 01:55PM | 0 recs
In my view

The only way that she'd be responsible for helping Obama win in November is if she becomes a strong advocate of his (which does not necessarily exclude her from offering criticism on policy).

In time, I hope that those of you who see him through her false characterizations of him will come around.  

No disrespect.

by Grand Master Peace 2008-06-05 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

You missed the point of my post.

by Juno 2008-06-05 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

Btw, what false characterizations?

Obama's supporters have been far more brutal toward her, even after he clinched the nomination, which has been something to behold.

They really do beg the question: if the Inspired Ones behave like this in victory, one can only imagine how they'd have behaved had Obama lost.

by Juno 2008-06-05 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

We saw how rattled he got in debates when challenged and how shaken over the Wright stuff and other bombs.

1 debate out of 21.  After the ABC fiasco he cut into Clinton's lead in Penn (made her spend all her money) and crushed her in NC and pulled off a tie in Indiana. The week AFTER Wright appeared.

You statement does not hold up well to reality.

It's called wishful thinking and concern trolling (something you've been doing all day long).

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-05 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view


Obama supporters do not have a realistic view of Obama.

by Juno 2008-06-05 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I don't think you have any idea whatsoever of how Obama supporters see Obama.

Tired of this strawman.  Tired of being told endlessly "guys, he's a politician", and endlessly replying "I know, never said he wasn't" and being ignored.

You've got an incredibly entrenched, tribalistic, us-vs-them worldview.  I encourage you to break free of it.  Clinton supporters and Obama supporters are the same people who just support different candidates.  We are not evil cultists.  You are not graceful, reasonable winners.  Nor is the opposite true.

We've all got our good and bad representatives.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I do not have an us-versus-them worldview at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And it is a false claim that Obama supporters do not  insist that he does not make politically expedient decisions. The whole Obama phenom, in fact, is based on claims that he is not politics-as-usual.

Not since Bushies have I seen people with the gall to claim one thing and deny it outright.

And it's Obama supporters coercing Clinton supporters now with a "you're either with us or against us" platform.  they've been very bad winners.  Very bad.

But look, if you're going to claim to be about change, then it's up to you to MAKE the changes.  This is a concept that seems totally lost on Obama supporters as they defend their incivility by saying "Clinton did it, Clinton supporters do it, he did it first, they deserve it, yadda, yadda, yadda."

That is NOT change. That is in fact the same.

by Juno 2008-06-05 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I don't know what to say.  You claim not to have an "us vs. them" mentality right before you accuse me of saying one thing and then denying it because you're putting the words of someone else into my mouth just because we share the same group.

I'm not going to answer for what other people say.  I'm not going to ask you to explain what some other Clinton supporter says.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 05:18PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I corrected it even before you responded.

Read back.

by Juno 2008-06-05 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

Again, the claim was that CLINTON had put false characterizations on Obama, NOT posters on blogs.

I asked what false characterizations SHE has made about him.

Get it now?


by Juno 2008-06-05 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

But I didn't say that!  I'm responding to this:

Indeed, Clinton's supporters have been far more dignified and gracious in her loss than an awful lot of Obama supporters have been in his win. Very ironic.

You might want to take a course in tact and diplomacy.

which you said downthread but you've said it repeatedly.

You cannot get uglier than Larry Johnson, Susan Hu, and the people at Hillary is 44.  The people at the RBC meeting making a celebrity out of Larry Sinclair were hideous representatives of Clinton as well.

I mention these things not because I expect anyone to make it up to me, but that examples are everywhere of the supporters of both sides acting so badly that anyone who wants to be alienated is going to have no trouble finding things to fuel the fire of their righteous outrage.

And there's absolutely nothing that a diplomatic Obama supporter can do about it, because we don't control each other.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 05:29PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

Then respond to the correct post!

And as I said, Clinton supporters have been far more dignified and gracious in their LOSS than have Obamans been in his win.

There is NO excuse for poor winning.  Poor losing is understandable at least.

And again, for the umpteenth time, it's Obama and his followers who have been claiming they want to end negative and divisive politics. They ought to act on that. This is a concept, though, that seem totally lost on many of them.

by Juno 2008-06-05 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I am responsible only for what I say.  If I say anything insulting than accuse me of that, not what someone else says.

And what the hell is the "Inspired Ones" talk all about?  You insult people left and right while taking umbrage any chance you get.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 05:36PM | 0 recs

Poor losing is just as ugly as poor winning.  There is no excuse for either and neither should be accepted or tollerated.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of poor losing that is being encouraged.  I have tried to be more civil since Tuesday, but I keep getting attacked.  I am a bad person and a bad representative of Obama's 'ideals' because I do not troll rate every negative comment about HRC.   Yet, I am supposed to sit back and let people, who claim to have voted for HRC, state that Michelle wants to kill Whitey and Barack wants to send all our money and jobs to Africa.  Then, when I point that out, I get attacked for defending BHO from attacks, because obviously he is too weak of a candidate to stand up for himself.

Please explain to me how that is bad winning?

by monkeyga 2008-06-05 08:31PM | 0 recs

I guess no explanations.

by monkeyga 2008-06-05 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I believe I have a very realistic view of Obama.  The same could be said for supporters of either candidate.  Please do not stereotype all Obama supporters.  It's quite offensive.  I've never degraded her.  I've only debated Clinton supporters and all those individuals I've met who have false impressions of him.  Please do not characterize all Obama supporters like this.  There are fanatics with every candidate, every religion, ever race, etc.  

by ScienceTeacher118 2008-06-05 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

You ought to see things for our perspective.  Clinton supporters have been anything but nice, fair, or gracious:

CJ Says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 pm

Another Michelle Obama quote from today's BillingsGazette... This woman is on drug... Serious

   basil9 Says:
    June 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 pm


Waffles campaign reminds me of the Crip/Latin King vendettas i witnessed in urban schools. the gang/territory if you're-not-one-of-us-you're-the-enemy attitude. They're a bunch of punk thugs-in-training and white boys vicariously living the gangsta life.

curiosityhasme Says:
April 13th, 2008 at 11:53pm

how about some good sportsmen try some shooting target practice on Bam Bam?

I could so easily fill up an entire notebook full of this stuff.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

See things from you perspective?

When I note the incivility of Obama supporters, I'm called a troll.

There is no lack of juvenile behavior on blogs.

The difference is that it's Obamans who are supposedly inspired to change.  They ought to practice what they preach, therefore.

by Juno 2008-06-05 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

Btw those are NOT false characterizations made by Clinton, as you claimed.

by Juno 2008-06-05 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

Correction: as WAS claimed.

by Juno 2008-06-05 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

I didn't say anything of the sort.

You said Obama supporters are acting like jerks and Clinton supporters are perfect angels.  Here's a counter-example.  I have many more.

And we've had this conversation before, so I know I'm repeating myself, but if you can ignore the stuff like I just posted I can't help but think it's because you want to.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: In my view

No, read back. The claim was that Clinton has made false characterizations of Obama.

I asked for examples and have yet to get any.

by Juno 2008-06-05 05:05PM | 0 recs
False characterizations promulgated by HRC:

I saw Hillary say that Barack thinks "the ONLY reason you are religious and have guns" is because you are bitter...  I don't remember the exact date or wording, but it was a few days after his comment became news.  Question:  Do you believe that Obama thinks that those are the ONLY reasons that people have those things in their lives?  That is a shameful mischaracterization that isn't even noticed by her partisan supporters.

The fact is that she has accused him of being an elitist.  Do you believe this is true?

She rejects the idea that he opposed the Iraq war from the beginning.

She has tried to falsely tie him to Louis Farahkan.

She has said that McCain would be more prepared to be president than Obama.  Do you think she really believes that?

She has tried to unfairly tie him to Bill Ayers and Toni Rezko.  Do really buy the idea that these people have any influence on who he is?

I could go on if you wish.  And these are just things that SHE has directly talked about.  If you want to go into the messages that her campaign and surrogates have been trying to fly, I'd be happy to elaborate even more.

Again, no disrespect, but SHE is responsible for the mischaracterizations that many of her supporters have and that is why there is such animosity toward her.  When her supporters parrot her B.S. then they wind up receiving the brunt of it.  (Sorry)

I'm open do discussing anything that you think I have gotten wrong.

by Grand Master Peace 2008-06-06 07:13AM | 0 recs
When President Bill Clinton endorses Obama,

then I will. He's not a candidate, like Hillary was. She has to endorse him, as she is still a politician. Bill is the conscience of the Clintons. when he gives Obama his blessing, so do I. Until then, I will hold off.

by DiamondJay 2008-06-05 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: When President Bill Clinton endorses Obama,

LOL.  The concept of "Bill Clinton" and "conscience" used in the same sentence amuses me.

Bill Clinton 2008 is not the Bill Clinton of 1992.  I seriously think his heart surgeries changed some things in his brain.

by erzeszut 2008-06-06 04:51AM | 0 recs
Re:Latest Chapter in Capitulation Chronicles

LOL. Yet another capitulation and "how-I-came-to-Barack" conversion diary. I suppose we will be tortured with one a day until the last Hillary supporter cries uncle!

by superetendar 2008-06-05 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re:Latest Chapter in Capitulation Chronicles

Indeed, Clinton's supporters have been far more dignified and gracious in her loss than an awful lot of Obama supporters have been in his win. Very ironic.

You might want to take a course in tact and diplomacy.

by Juno 2008-06-05 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re:Latest Chapter in Capitulation Chronicles

That's another Clinton supporter you're talking to.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:18PM | 0 recs
talk left

You obviously haven't been reading the posts on talkleft.

by monkeyga 2008-06-05 08:24PM | 0 recs
Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

I am a Hillary supporter who will vote for McCain in the fall.

I cannot get over the fact that Obama is the least qualified candidate to be nominated for the presidency of this great country.

The last one was Bush Jr. and look what that brought us. I cannot support a candidate just because he is our unqualified candidate.

by BigB 2008-06-05 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

This is a democratic message board.  There are other, very nice message boards where you can go and hang out with the Repugs.  Toodles!

by lollydee 2008-06-05 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

Really, you Obamans REALLY need to LISTEN to Obama.

by Juno 2008-06-05 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

"you're either with us or against us."

where have I heard that before?

Maybe Obama and Democrat blogs should require loyalty oaths?

Maybe there should be goons to escort anyone with a dissenting opinion out?

How strange that it seems to be Obama supporters who have picked up at least part of the Bush ethos.

by Juno 2008-06-05 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

Or rather, maybe those who loathe the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party might want to consider moving on where they'd feel more at home.  It's not that complicated.

by lollydee 2008-06-06 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

If you're really a Hillary supporter, there's no way you could seriously vote for McCain. Imagine him getting to ram two more Alito/Roberts fascist judges onto the Supreme Court - bye bye, reproductive rights.  Hello, corporate overlords and rampant spying on things that are not the government's business.

by beerwulf 2008-06-05 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

Punishing the Democratic Party into extinction is more important than Roe v. Wade.

My state won't ban abortion, so I don't really care if Roe v. Wade is overturned. The big losers from a Republican court will be African-American women (primarily in Southern states) who get abortions at three times the rate of other women and African Americans who will lose their affirmative action preferences. Hmmm...looks like Barack bamboozled and hoodwinked them.

by hwc 2008-06-05 10:20PM | 0 recs
You Obama supporters are making a serious mistake

by dismissing the great many of us who are planning to switch to McCain.

I have heard this sentiment from people I know in my life with whom I have never discussed politics and didn't suspect to be Hillary supporters. They are eager to bring up primary politics and volunteer their plan to switch.

I am not afraid of supreme court judges and issues like that because we will have a Democratic Congress.

Asking Democrats who don't support Obama to leave the party is not wise because most of us plan to support other Democrats down the ticket.

Would you prefer we don't support them too?

Is it not fascist to expect loyalty oaths to one candidate?

by BigB 2008-06-06 05:45AM | 0 recs
I am a *nominee* supporter, not an Obama supporter

I have always kept the attitude that I would be very happy with either Clinton or Obama as the nominee in November, and avoided identifying either of their success with my own.

This is what happens when you fall in love with a candidate instead of looking at politics in a more pragmatic manner, I guess.  You start thinking about cutting off your nose to spite your face, and if enough of you do it you get to make the country suffer.  That'll show us!

by beerwulf 2008-06-06 01:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Sorry but I don't share your sentiment

There is a lot of talking on the boards about being "qualified" and having the most "experience."  

He spent six years in the Illinois State Senate and has been in the U.S. Senate for four years.  Total elected experience 10 years.

HRC was first lady of Arkansas for twelve years, first lady of the good ol' U.S. of A for eight years, and finally a U.S. Senator for close to seven years.  Total elected experience 7 years.  

I will not knock the experience she received as first lady, I'm sure it was good experience, but when it comes to elected experience Obama wins that category.  

Abraham Lincoln's national political experience amounted to "two failed Senate races and a single term in Congress that had come to an end nearly a dozen years earlier."  I find it hard to believe that anyone would not credit Lincoln as being one of the best Presidents our nation has ever seen.  

It does not matter how many years you sit in a chair and do the job.  What matters is the ability to get things done.  He has amassed one of the largest grassroots organizations, raised millions upon millions from individual donors, won a majority of the primaries, a majority of voters (if all caucus estimates are correct), and has done all of this in a respectful way.  If you are voting just based upon "experience" then that is your choice, but I believe there is so much more at stake in this election.  

by ScienceTeacher118 2008-06-05 09:54PM | 0 recs
Well, tell us what has Obama accomplished?

Other than winning this nomination, after losing the popular vote, by wins in anti-democratic red state caucuses.

by BigB 2008-06-06 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Just nod your head and let it go out your ears Clinton supporters. I am so sorry I wrote my truce diary the other day. We have and are obviously being played. Take your cues from Hillary and ignore these folks. I hope they have the grace in November to thank us when so many of us are going against our own principles and morals by even remaining and voting for the down-ticket let alone President. Some of you folks on here blew it and I really did give an effort but the recent anti gay lawsuit against the DNC is the last straw for me. I don't need to be in a party where blacks and leaders  of the DNC are given free reign to smear and prevent equal equality to gays and lesbians while they come around with their hands out stretched for money and votes.

by Iceblinkjm 2008-06-05 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Yes, I commented on your earlier diary.  I can't believe Donna Brazile actually said that.  My dislike for her grows stronger every day.

I agree that the "it's us or them" attitude has only served to further divide us.. something the Republicans are taking great delight in.  If we lose in November this will be the reason and it won't be Clinton or her supporter's fault.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-05 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

What did she say?

by Juno 2008-06-05 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Taken from iceblinkjm's diary:

"Adding gays and lesbians to the affirmative action charter for delegate selection would be an affront to the civil rights movement and would result in fewer black delegates being chosen." Donna Brazile. 1/2624

by JustJennifer 2008-06-05 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter


Not only is it atrocious, it's politically stupid and completely undermines Barack Obama and plays right into bigots' and morons' claims that Obama has a "Rev. Wright/Black agenda."

by Juno 2008-06-05 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Don't forget that Donna Brazile was the bonehead who managed to let Al Gore lose to Dumbya Bush (she was Gore's campaign manager).  I haven't seriously listened to anything she's had to say since then - she's not nearly as good as her resume says that she ought to be.

by beerwulf 2008-06-05 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Boneheaded American voters let Bush win.

How **ing stupid did a person have to be to vote for him?


by Juno 2008-06-05 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

How stupid do people have to be to vote for McCain?  Because there are a lot of people right here who are saying they want to do that.

Bush's problem was never experience - if it was, you'd expect him to have gotten better over time.  He did not.  He's leaving office the same miserable failure that he was when he was first sworn in.

It's his policies that are awful.  McCain shares his policies.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'm not arguing for McCain. No one needs to tell me McCain is an impossible consideration.

Repubs need to run out of town and must be made to go sit in a corner and think about what they've done.

A lot of Obama supporters also said they'd vote for McCain if he lost.  Obama's problem may be that Clinton did manage to draw back some of those who had gone over to the GOP, aka The Stupids.

But look, whoever gets the Stupid vote wins.

by Juno 2008-06-05 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter


Donna Brazile does NOT speak for Barack Obama.  She's barely even a supporter.

I'm sorry you're sorry for your truce diary.  I've been getting annoyed at the media as well - I had a similar reaction before New Hampshire.  I also see Clinton supporters fighting each other upthread - each not realizing that they're talking to another Clinton supporter; something about "Hillary supporters crying uncle" which is a sarcastic remark made BY a Clinton supporter, and then another one comes along thinking that it's a taunting Obama supporter.

I'm rambling but my point is things are chaotic right now.  It's up to everyone who they choose to focus on, but Obama supporters don't speak with one voice, nor does the media speak for us.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:11PM | 0 recs
Experience Guides My Fall Vote

I donated to and voted for Clinton in the primaries because I thought she was the most qualified and most experienced candidate.

This fall, I will vote for the most qualified and most experienced candidate, too.

And I'm looking forward to it.

by BigBoyBlue 2008-06-05 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Experience Guides My Fall Vote

Do positions on the issues matter to you at all?  Just wondering why you didn't vote for Biden or write in Dick Cheney.

Or George W. Bush for that matter.  No one more experienced than him.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I didn't support Clinton because she was a woman, I supported because she was a fighter and had the guts to stand up. There is no longer a candidate who is a fighter and I will vote for the most experienced candidate this November. This post should not be on the frontpage.

by bsavage 2008-06-05 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Great Diary

by Politicalslave 2008-06-05 03:03PM | 0 recs
Go NObama 08!

I certainly respect your decision and I hope you will respect mine. Sorry, no thank you. This isn't sour grapes or whining about Hillary. After baring witness to Team Obama's race baiting, the rampant sexism and media bias, voter intimation, and election fraud I cannot in good conscious vote for Obama and reward the party. Bottom line, the party has selected a younger, less experienced candidate over an older more experienced one that was elected by the people. There is a mass exodus occurring. You might just be feeling the rumbling under your feet.

NObama 08!

by grlpatriot 2008-06-05 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Go NObama 08!

It's hard to have respect for someone who can look at an entire demographic and think that their judgment is superior.  Black supporters of Barack Obama are not children to be fooled, and I'd hope you'd defer to them on who was doing the race-baiting.

Do you tolerate men telling you what is sexist and what is not?  I don't.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Go NObama 08!

Correction: I didn't realize you were a NoQuarter regular.

You hid your sheet very well.  And thankfully, there is a wonderful selection of white candidates for you to choose from this year.  And every year from now on.  Get lost.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 07:38PM | 0 recs
You are way out of line

by BigB 2008-06-06 05:52AM | 0 recs
(cough) Now the Obamazealots were
all Hillary supporters, and know when it's over.
Because the real Hillary supporters KNOW it's over, and are looking forward 4 years, when DNC will not DARE steal the election from her.
by layer cake 2008-06-05 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Interesting how so many first time posters are showing up today and smearing both of the Democratic candidates.

I smell a rat.  Several of them.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:36PM | 0 recs
Accept Mediocrity

that has been forced down our throats.

by layer cake 2008-06-05 03:36PM | 0 recs
what's 13.1

by FLS 2008-06-05 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'm sorry, but talking about the way the Clintons were treated while at the same time pushing a rumor started at NoQuarter is the height of hypocrisy.

I'm a bygones-be-bygones kind of girl but the fact that there's a prominent website devoted to both Hillary Clinton and white supremacy, and Hillary Clinton has never had to answer for it is too much.

There are pro-Clinton people who have behaved ATROCIOUSLY.  I'm moving on.  So is everyone else.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

This dismantles the rumor and shows up Larry Johnson and Susan Hu for the racist creeps they are.  If you want to play whose supporters are worse, then I reserve the right to run those two assassins up the flagpole every time.

But the bottom line is that Barack Obama does not have to answer every single rumor launched against him.  He didn't have to deny that he was a muslim when Clinton volunteers were spreading that, and he doesn't have to deny this.

by Jess81 2008-06-05 03:55PM | 0 recs
Are you a Republican plant?

The way you are insulting everyone here and calling people names my suspicion is that you are a Republican plant to ensure that Hillary supporters never vote for Obama.

Great job!

by BigB 2008-06-06 05:54AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Here, here!!!

by scytherius 2008-06-05 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

I'll tell you what: you don't demand that Obama answer "yes or no" to such a scurillous question, and I won't make the equally ridiculous demand that Clinton and/or her supporters apologize for the question in the first place, 'kay?

by mechascorpio 2008-06-05 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

As a Hillary supporter I have to say that I will gladly vote for Obama.  Also the idea of any democrat voting for McCain makes me sick; especially when your vote will EQUAL more DEAD American Soliders (God bless them and their families) in Iraq.

by nzubechukwu 2008-06-05 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

it's nice to hear these words. Contrast them with the stuff that goes on at TalkLeft with impunity:

"I'm already supporting McCain for President.  If Obama keeps on with these speeches, I may not even vote for the down ticket dems.  They disgust me."

I understand that anyone who supported clinton gave all their best hopes and hard work to get her elected. The part of her losing is something I can empathize with. I think EVERY democrat can empathize with the disappointment her supporters must feel (just look at Gore and Kerry for case in point).

What I don't understand is someone who wouldn't support Obama. It's the kind of threat that disrespects the very core of Clinton's platform and any progressive's goal for a better, more progressive nation. One without a right-wing stacked Supreme Cout.

Yeah, I ended up supporting Obama in the end but only after I chose Edwards by maile (mailed in my absentee ballot the day before he dropped out). No, I didn't give Obama money because I strongly believed that supporting down ticket Dems was more important at that time (and I was very happy with the quality of our candidates).

so, I hope for those who supported Hillary that there can be a full recovery from the sourness which is built up beliefs of an America led by a woman (and a very charismatic one). and I hope that the progressive establishment can come together quick to create a progressive majority for the next generation.

too much is at stake. thanks for the diary.

by alex100 2008-06-05 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

In your dreams.  Unity Shmunity!  Where was your unity when you were spewing vitriol at HRC and her supporters?  The party abandoned us so now we are abandoning the party.  I guess this is what you call poetic justice.

by trixta 2008-06-05 09:39PM | 0 recs
Obviously, you have no idea what she stands for

You must be one of those people who vote in a cult of personality, rather than the ideas that were talked of.   HRC and BHO agree on about 98% of the issues.    The policies that they want are mostly the same.

The fact that you are now voting against everyone one of the people who would support 98% of her ideas for people who want almost none of her ideas to pass, shows me that you must never have cared about what she wanted to do as President.  The fact that you desire to see her placed in a minority party tells me that you don't want to see her be successful.

The fact that you refuse to refute the vitriol that HRC supporters continue to spew at BHO and Michelle Obama also shows me that you refuse to live up to your own 'high' standards.

by monkeyga 2008-06-06 04:59AM | 0 recs
And you don't vote on cult of personality?

by BigB 2008-06-06 05:56AM | 0 recs
I believe in his ideas

If he were not the nominee, I would not be making statements that the party abandoned me and deserves no support.  I would not be making statements that I was going to vote against every Democrat at every level of government out of spite.  I would not do everything in my power to cut off my nose to spite my face.  And trust me, I am the kind of person that does hold a grudge.

To be honest, I can not say who I would vote for if HRC were the nominee.  But, I can 100% say that I would absolutely vote agsinst McCain.  I know McCain would do everything in his power to destroy what BHO believes in.  I would also do what I could to get turncoat Lieberman out of the caucus come November.

I would also have voted for Democrats and Liberals at all other levels of Government.  I would want them to be in control of the House and the Senate and as many goverment posts as possible.   This would be true even of the people who had worked against BHO in the primary.  

This is what I do know, and this is why my stance is much different.   Can you say the same?

by monkeyga 2008-06-06 06:17AM | 0 recs
Here's my unity

I'm voting against Barack Obama and every Democrat running in downticket races, including Senator Kerry and Rep. Tierney.

by hwc 2008-06-05 10:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Here's my unity

Senator Kerry is running un-opposed.....repubs are an endangered species in Massacusetts

by feliks 2008-06-06 03:57AM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

Great diary, thanks.

One side has won, and the other has lost, but we are all democrats, so in a way we all have won, and we all have lost.

Although I'm an Obama supporter, I really identify with this. In 2004 I supported Dean but I was happy with enthusiasm for him was about a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10.

This year, both Obama and Clinton were such fantastic candidates. On my personal enthusiasm scale, Clinton rated a 9/ just so happened that Obama rated a 9.1. I'm happy Obama is the nominee, but I'm not thrilled that Obama's win means Clinton's loss.

by quimby10 2008-06-05 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: View from a Hillary supporter

 I liked McCain back in 2000, but now he's just a shell of the man he once was.  

by anasky123 2008-06-24 10:29PM | 0 recs


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