Obama's VP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- "Clinton tells New York lawmakers she's open to being Obama's vice presidential candidate."

What's this?  I don't really have an opinion on it either way.

Anyway, congrats to Obama, for it looks like this is the day he pulls over the magic number for becoming the Democratic nominee. We should all hope he wins while running against McCain.

I've got a trip coming up on Wed., going over to Malaysia for about a week. I'll likely blog while there on the trip, as I'm attending a political conference while there.

Tags: 2008 election (all tags)



Re: Obama's VP

Thank you for this post.  Maybe we can unite!

by thezzyzx 2008-06-03 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I certainly hope we can all unite behind the Democratic nominee.

Jerome sounds less than willing.  "Let's hope he wins" -- a gracious and ringing endorsement of the progressive nominee, there.

by MadCasey 2008-06-03 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I hope "we" win against McCain and the Republicans.

by ImpeachBushCheney 2008-06-03 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN an FOX are trying to kill her off

what's the complaint?  who's in the class?

by ab03 2008-06-03 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN an FOX are trying to kill her off

Exactly.  Who's the class and how were you damaged?

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN an FOX are trying to kill her off

I have two sets of required reading for you.

The first is the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

The second is a mountain of court cases that decide what it means.

Once you've finished, you'll understand why that was a silly thing to say.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

It's a start.  You can't expect an immediate flip.  I'm pretty excited just for that.

by thezzyzx 2008-06-03 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

and the bitterness keeps on pouring out of you...

by zerosumgame 2008-06-03 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

How about a little class?  You end the game, you say "Good game."  You don't taunt.  

Jerome, thanks a lot. You're a passionate advocate for your candidate and you fought a good fight.

I know Obama can win this and I know it will take Democrats and sites like MYDD to come together to take on McCain and the Republican machine.

by niksder 2008-06-03 01:21PM | 0 recs
In all fairness....

....Jerome's comment is an improvement.

I hope he'll be more enthusiastic in a few weeks, but hey, I know where I was when Dean closed shop after the Wisconsin primary.

by palamedes 2008-06-03 12:05PM | 0 recs
Well, many of us don't find him

progressive. Rather, just another politician in love with himself gaming the system. It worked and he'll be the nominee. Whether he wins is a whole nother thing. All I can do is second Jerome's comment.

by berkshiretrueblue 2008-06-03 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, many of us don't find him

Yeah, well, neither was Kerry, in comparison to Dean.  Yet, a substantial majority of us Deaniacs got behind Kerry as soon as he secured the nomination, and busted our asses for him in the general.  Somehow, we were able to get over our sour grapes.  Maybe that's because we were more concerned with getting NotBush elected in '04, than with preparing for Dean '08.

by leveller 2008-06-03 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, many of us don't find him

The odd thing here is that people who supported Dean, tend to support Obama. Hillary didn't pick up her 'outsider' status until she started losing......

by xodus1914 2008-06-03 01:05PM | 0 recs
People Vs. Punditocracy

Look, the spin is really tedious. I realize that the Obama camp is probably in shock that the people of the US who support Hillary don't lie down and die on cue and neither does she. Welcome to the real world. The period from now to November will be much different than the primaries, regardless of the situation with Hillary.

3/4 of these rumors are complete bullshit, its been turning out. Is anyone surprised?

The Obama camp and obviously, many in the MSM's hope is to get people in the last two states to stay home, and I am sure that many will.

Still, Hillary is NOT dead. She has won, basically, slightly more than half of the actual votes. SO, I sincerly hope that she will contest the caucus decisions and the fiasco with Michigan and Florida.

That was clearly an illegitimate decision.

by architek 2008-06-03 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: People Vs. Punditocracy

When people say "obviously" it's a sign that what they're about to say is rank speculation, and probably wrong.

Look - imagine you're an Obama supporter, and you hear that he's won.  Does that make you more or less likely to head to the polls?  My guess is "less".

Now imagine you're a Hillary supporter and you hear that the race is over.  You have one last chance to make a statement.  Are you more or less likely to head to the polls?  More.

Stop interpreting nefarious things into everything another human being does.  It's a grossout.

by Jess81 2008-06-03 01:37PM | 0 recs
longer version with source

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id= D912PQK00&show_article=1

WASHINGTON (AP) - Hillary Rodham Clinton has told congressional colleagues she would be open to becoming Barack Obama's vice presidential nominee, saying she would consider it if it would help Democrats win the White House.

Clinton, a New York senator, made the comment on a conference call with other New York lawmakers Tuesday, according a participant on the call.

The senator's remarks came in response to a question from Democratic Rep. Nydia Velazquez who said she believed the best way for Obama to win over key voting blocs, including Hispanics, would be for him to choose Clinton as his running mate.

"I am open to it," Clinton replied, if it would help the party's prospects in November.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-03 11:44AM | 0 recs
I myself am open to...

... Warren Buffett and Bill Gates naming me in their wills.

by Hudson 2008-06-03 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Obama clinches the nomination and you post a story about Clinton.  There is something wrong with that.

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-03 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

This was a historical race.  

get over it.  It isn't always about Obama either

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

It does feel like Hillary is trying to make this day about her, not about the nominee.  We should all be talking about his incredible race and instead the diaries are about HRC.

And that's just the way she wanted it -- Senator Clinton's the one who brought up the topic --

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/36 1659.html

by politicsmatters 2008-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

There will be many days about Obama; Clinton can share one more.

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 12:21PM | 0 recs

From a long time and fervent Obama supporter: I totally agree. Hillary deserves more than a "see ya later" for her tireless campaign. She will continue to be one of the best politicians of our generations.

I look forward to her speech tonight.

by not Brit 2008-06-03 12:36PM | 0 recs
So it's all about Obama?

We should all be talking about his "incredible race", and nothing else? Can't talk about the fact that by most counts she won the popular vote, even though he won the delegate count? Obama's the nominee, so HRC and the 49.9% of the Democratic party that support her should just sit down and shut up. Sounds too much like W's "mandate" in 2004. Never thought I would see and hear it in my own party.

by georgiapeach 2008-06-03 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: So it's all about Obama?

Actually she only wins the popular vote by one count out of literally hundreds of ways to "count" it.

by upstate girl 2008-06-03 12:39PM | 0 recs
"most counts she won the popular vote"

Whose count? Icke's count, Bill's count, Wolfson's, Universal's, Taylor Marsh, a few others around here and Hillaryis44. Chelsea I suppose might have a similar count.  

After that, I suppose most people might think there were a few Obama supporters in MIchigan and that human beings actually showed up to the caucuses.

by mikeinsf 2008-06-03 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: So it's all about Obama?

"Can't talk about the fact that by most counts she won the popular vote, even though he won the delegate count?"

To what end?  In both the electoral college and the primaries, the popular vote does not determine the winner (and, please, remember tha I supported HRC).  

No, HRC supporters should not sit down and shut up, but we should recognize that, barring disaster, Obama will be the nominee.  

What we should be talking about, since you raise the issue, is how we ALL move from here to victory in November.  

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

My guy won.  I am totally over it.  I just think it is odd that Jerome chose to announce that Obama clinched the nomination in a one paragraph story essentially about Clinton's desire to be VP.  Obama's victory deserves a little more than a passing thought in a story about Clinton.  YMMV.

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP
After Obama gains the nomination, you can't pretend Clinton doesn't exist. To do so would be a fatal mistake. I think Obama knows that to be true.
by zenful6219 2008-06-03 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I think it would be a mistake to give her too much attention.  It only gives her more power to screw things up for him.  The less Clinton is in the news the better it is for Obama.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-03 12:26PM | 0 recs

by sepulvedaj3 2008-06-03 12:29PM | 0 recs
Obama's anti-universal-healthcare candidacy

I suspect that because of her stance on healthcare the Obama camp had already decided long ago that they ABSOLUTELY CAN'T have Hillary as the VP. Or probably ANYTHING.

Now they have to figure a way to JUSTIFY not having her on their ticket - at any cost.

Even if it costs them the election.

(The goal perhaps may already been met for them, killing UHC.)

I think that is probably the reason Obama got most of his financial support, to kill UHC.

by architek 2008-06-03 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's anti-universal-healthcare candidacy

Really, that seems a bit strange to me.

So instead of backing a candidate that is actually opposed to it like McCain, the mysterious moneymen back somebody who is has almost the same plan as Edwards and Clinton. A healthcare plan that could easily end up  adapted to include mandates if congress wanted too.

And they do so in a way that doesn't show up on all those FEC reports.

If I was part of "them" I would have simply waited until the actual bill was considered and fund a massive "Harry and Louise" campaign with the money.

That seems a more certain way to influence the outcome in place of starting to fund a relatively unknown two year Senator to take on the heir apparent of the democratic party two years before the actual election.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's anti-universal-healthcare candidacy

Right. The million-plus people who donated had nothing to do with it.

by nathanp 2008-06-03 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's anti-universal-healthcare candidacy

As an Obama donor, I respectfully disagree with your analysis.  I find it difficult to believe that most of Obama's donors supported him because they wanted to kill UHC.

If you have a link or supporting facts to share with us that furthers your argument, I would be very interested in reading more.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-06-03 01:22PM | 0 recs
This should not be TR'd


by Montague 2008-06-03 01:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I think it's ok for it to be about both, especially on this site. This is the end of a dream for a lot of mydd folks, so it's only natural that they wanna talk about it.

by Metrobot 2008-06-03 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I understand there will always be a segment of the Democratic that wants no visible signs of Clinton helping. I just don't agree with them.

by zenful6219 2008-06-04 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Jerome will you help clean up Mydd since you said this site is about electing a Dem. We need you to come around to understanding certain people on this site are trying to hurt the dems so McCain can win. Please help out in making Mydd a site for Obama supporters now that he will be the dem nom.

by Hillarywillwin 2008-06-03 11:45AM | 0 recs
Yes, please impose some Obama purity testing...

so only those who speak in sufficiently glowing terms about our glorious leader are allowed to speak at all!

You of course, are such a shining beacon of civility-your name says it all.

Seems like only yesterday you were saying no one should be allowed to criticize the Dem Rules Committee.

Gee, under this Obama what will we be allowed to say?????

by berkshiretrueblue 2008-06-03 01:11PM | 0 recs
I see this

I see this as an implicit endorsement by Senator Clinton.  I salute her and her supporters.

And I hope Senator Obama takes some time to think through his vp choices.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-03 11:45AM | 0 recs
That was well-worded.

And carefully, too. And I fully agree with you.

by kydoc2 2008-06-03 11:51AM | 0 recs
"Nice house you have here..."

"Pity if something were to happen to it!"

by amitxjoshi 2008-06-03 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: "Nice house you have here..."

That was really, really poor!

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:33PM | 0 recs
What's poor?
  1. The original comment?
  2. My interpretation?
  3. My taste in posting my interpretation?
by amitxjoshi 2008-06-03 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: What's poor?

Your taste?  A person who is totally tasteless has none!

by BillCat 2008-06-04 06:26AM | 0 recs
Re: I see this

Well said!  Mojo given!

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Should we be holding off assuming this is accurate for a bit?  AP hasn't exactly had the greatest day so far.

I'm fine with whoever Obama chooses as VP (well, Hagel will piss me off, but that's about it).  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-03 11:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I'd be pissed by any number of potential choices (HRC is far from the worst he could have IMO).

As for the AP, the reason they got the concession item "wrong" is there's clearly chaos in the Clinton camp between those who can see the forest for the trees and those who can't (and those who know they have to keep pretending so some of the debt goes away).

by PantsB 2008-06-03 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Yes the Clinton camp is all over the place lately, a sign that maybe not even Hillary is sure what tonight's announcement will actually....announce.

I think the facts on the ground are changing by the minute.  Negotiations ongoing between the two camps could produce anything from a concession speech from Hillary (if Obama sweetens the deal enough), to a speech stating she's fighting on (if Obama doesn't meet her expectations).  The next few days are going to be really interesting.

...And all this bunk about Obama putting out the "Hillary is conceding" nonsense is just that: nonsense.

Why?  Because it's in his best interest to give Clinton some breathing room to make a decision on her own.  Obama and Axelrod surely realize by now that Hillary will exit this race on HER terms, so feeding a story to the AP would only piss her off and make her stay in the race longer.

Why the hell would they want that?

by cato 2008-06-03 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

"Obama and Axelrod surely realize by now that Hillary will exit this race on HER terms, so feeding a story to the AP would only piss her off and make her stay in the race longer."--cato

Exactly, but if true,  Hillary's "right back at you" was to mouth the words "I think I'll have the VP."  It was the lip synch heard around the country by millions of Clinton supporters. Supporters, you know what to do! Make it happen. LOL.

Donna Brazille was just on CNN sputtering about Hillary's VP gambit. Brazille has that perpetually sour, acid-refluxish look on her face and  looks like she is about to commit seppuku, except on Hillary, figuratively, of course.  LOL.

Adelante! Vamos! Unite!

by superetendar 2008-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Hill way far from the worst, but Bill

is a problem. I think she's qualified and, if you look at Bowers' map, she could be a good choice.  I'm not a purist on "change."

But they would have to figure out what to do with Bill and I'm not sure they could do it.

by ksh 2008-06-03 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Hill way far from the worst, but Bill

Simple, Hill is VP and Bill is President. In their world, Obama can park cars.

by antiHyde 2008-06-03 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Hill way far from the worst, but Bill

Stop with the racist bullshit, antiHyde.  You aren't helping your candidate.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Hill way far from the worst, but Bill

Of all the arguments for HRC as Veep, Bower's map is one of the worst.  Its a terrible argument based on a flawed premise and sloppy logic.  Chris Bowers is one of the best liberal/progressive bloggers IMO but that line of thought it terrible IMO.

by PantsB 2008-06-03 12:31PM | 0 recs
yeah, well

I didn't look at his methodology closely.  I'm guessing he just lumped their results together?

by ksh 2008-06-05 07:32AM | 0 recs
Hagel and Webb would both piss me off.

McCaskill wouldn't make me very happy, either.  But they all seem like unlikely choices to me.

by Elsinora 2008-06-03 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Hagel and Webb would both piss me off.

What's wrong with McCaskill?

Webb wouldn't piss me off, but he'd make me say "bad choice."  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-03 12:01PM | 0 recs
She's a senator, for starters.

I would be upset by any two-senator ticket.  It's unwise.  Also, there's nothing that really stands about about her in terms of accomplishments or ability--she's just rather blah.

Plus, if Obama were to put a woman on the ticket, it should really be someone like Clinton or Napolitano, not McCaskill.  But that's just my opinion.

by Elsinora 2008-06-03 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Do you really have no opinion about Hillary as Obama's VP? If so you are probably one of the only sentient beings on the planet without one. Anyway, glad to see something positive on Obama from you. Not terrifically substantive but not snarky either. Baby steps....

by wasder 2008-06-03 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Please change your map to reflect the new SUSA poll with Obama ahead of McCain.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-03 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I didn't want to pull the trigger on this too soon, Jerome, but a while back you (arguably) promised to eat your shoe if Obama won the nomination. Now, there are some qualification in there, but here's the link:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2007/8/15/2 3715/1090/38#38

I had to save it when you said it, just in case the impossible happened.

So, when can we expect the youtube video of you eating your shoe? Here's one with Werner Herzog eating his shoe, following a bet with Errol Morris:


by DPW 2008-06-03 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

OMG, I forgot this video.

Thanks for the link.

by Deadalus 2008-06-03 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Well Played.  I can't believe you remembered this.  Kudos!

by CAchemist 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Are you kidding?  

I will eat a shoe if the 'you've all been bad' and 'come together' mantra about electability wins a Democratic nomination.
That's incredibly easy to spin out of.  Just say "it wasn't the mantra that won the nom, it was X", where X is something about gutter politics or sexism, or whatever...

by semiquaver 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
I love this quote

"While his point of criticism toward Clinton should be is a 50-state partisan message and the decline of the Democratic brand in the '90's, he's just not the messenger that has that silver bullet."


by Al Rodgers 2008-06-03 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I love this quote

Great one, Al!

by JoeW 2008-06-03 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Here's the best part that comment from Jerome:

Obama's running a general election strategy against her that, instead of arguing why she would be the wrong candidate for the Democratic nomination (she is problematic to run alongside in red and some purple states), lacks democraticness and seems absurd to partisan democratic voters in it's castigation of Republicans and Democrats alike for the partisan warfare.

Now, granted, in August of 2007 few pundits predicted that this exact strategy would yield Obama the nomination, albeit after a drawn out, hard-fought primary season.

For those Americans who are heartily sick of extreme partisans on both sides, it's gratifying to see just how wrong this prediction was.

by Koan 2008-06-03 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

OMG--thanks so much for this. I would like to see some more comments like this from Jerome unearthed. I seem to remember other definitive Obama can't win commentary from him.

by wasder 2008-06-03 12:23PM | 0 recs
Jerome fleeing the country...

... to avoid having to deliver on that promise?

by Hudson 2008-06-03 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Obama: Don't Pick Hillary! Pick GOv. Succubus or GOv. RIchardson. Being VP would be a huge demotion for Clinton and she would have no power whatsoever and no constituency. Daschle and his aides will just laught at her everyday, while they marginalize her.

by bsavage 2008-06-03 11:48AM | 0 recs
What the hell

are you blathering about?  You are incoherent.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-03 11:49AM | 0 recs
^^^ ban this troll

look at this comment history.

McSamiacs not allowed.

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-03 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: ^^^ ban this troll

Get over yourself. There are lots of democrats who will vote for McCain but will vote for local and state Dems.

by bsavage 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: ^^^ ban this troll

Perhaps, troll.  However, most Democrats know that Tom Daschle is no longer a senator, much less the majority leader.

Back under your bridge!

by deminva 2008-06-03 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: ^^^ ban this troll
Wait a minute! What if s/he has a time machine and is actually living in 2003? Maybe we can use that power for good! Like, I don't know, figuring out who would win American Idol, or, or, something happened in late March that year. Can't put my finger on it now, but a time machine would be useful.
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-06-03 01:34PM | 0 recs
Sorry again

At best that makes you an Independent.  Nothing wrong with that, I wear the badge proudly.

But the key issue in today's US politics is to put the White House in democratic hands.  The rest of the party will be greatly affected by the leadership of the white house.

Even Indies like myself who recognize the need for change in politics are generaly pulling across the board for a democratic sweep.  Only when the balance of power has become sane - and the GOP retools itself into something not offensive to modern sensibilities - will centrist folks like myself give them much consideration at all.

So, if you fight against the democrats for the White House you are effectively fighting against the change in US politics - and fighting in favor of continuing the status quo (which even most died in the wool Republicans are not in favr of).


by chrisblask 2008-06-03 12:13PM | 0 recs
Gov Succubus

OK, that's at least clever, for a troll.

by 2501 2008-06-03 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Gov Succubus

If I was a real "troll", I would be writing how great McCain is, he's actually a asshole. However, I hate Obama more, so I'm voting for McCain.

by bsavage 2008-06-03 11:56AM | 0 recs

Well, since you are now supporting McCain and will be working to get him elected, that actually does make you a Troll.

Sorry about that, but that there just happens to be the very definition of Troll.

You want a McCain presidency.  Therefore, anything you say would only logically be intended to bring about that goal.  Therefore, everything you say would only logically be designed to hurt the Democratic party.

If you decide to support the Democratic party, then you won't be a Troll anymore.

Can't be any more simple than that.


by chrisblask 2008-06-03 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Definitions

Very nicely put!

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Gov Succubus

I'm voting for your momma.

by Black Anus 2008-06-03 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Gov Succubus

Am I really supposed to take anything seriously from a user who goes by "black Anus" ?


by bsavage 2008-06-03 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Gov Succubus

Your momma takes it seriously.

by Black Anus 2008-06-03 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Gov Succubus

"your mamma!"

Brrrrrriiiiiiingggggggg!  That's the bell for third period!  Better run along.

by TL 2008-06-03 12:43PM | 0 recs
Good lord, ADMINS!

Nothing but goodness with this user, eh?  The name and the comments aren't as bad as giving a little too many TRs?

Jerome, Josh, folks...

Please.  I've really come to like this place.  Let's not be completely stupid with it.


by chrisblask 2008-06-03 01:10PM | 0 recs
No, if you were a real troll...

...you'd say that you were voting for McCain over the presumptive Democratic nominee.  

Which you did.

Plenty of Republicans that hate McCain are voting for him anyway.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-03 12:05PM | 0 recs

Dr. King wrote:

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. ... Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

I don't hate Republicans, I just vote against them and recognize that their policies and politics are bad for America. I don't hate Senator Clinton, I just believe that Senator Obama will be a better candidate and a better president. Hate has no place in American politics, regardless of whom you're aiming at.

You probably feel like you and your preferred candidate have been mistreated by people like me and the media. That might be true. You probably have witnessed plenty of legitimate "Hillary hate," in which people dislike Senator Clinton for no rational reason. It hurts to see those people win. But only a fool responds with more hate.

If you truly hate Senator Obama, I'm really sorry. I hope that this changes for you in the future.

by Fitzy 2008-06-03 12:16PM | 0 recs
Double Phantom Rec (with nuggies)!!


Hate?  Hate Republicans?  Hate Obama supporters?

All of these are bad things.

Anyone here who neither has a relative or friend who is a Republican, please respond to this comment now.

Anyone who has friends and relatives who are Republicans and still "hates republicans", please TR me now.  I would rather share the target of that hate than gain your praise.

Hate groups "hate".  Intolerants "hate".

There are vanishinly few who I can say I "hate".  Can't think of any off hand (Bin Laden?  I could use to see him a little bit dead...  sure, I "hate" Bin Laden for being such a hatefull nihilistic fuck).

Most of the neo-Nazis I clash with make me sad.  Otherwise useful folks who choose to harbor foolish views, what a waste.  Hate them?  Not really.

Hating half of your own party - worse, hating half of your own country, and in that hating (without doubt) parts of your own family...  That's just sad as well.

Hate of groups is, well, hate of groups.  Those who hate arbitrary groups are famous throughout history, though I leave it to the reader to think of a few of the more well known.  

The distance from there to respect of all people is enormous, and separates the hater from the rest of humanity.

The distance from there to an American view of the world is equally huge.  Same with the distance to a Republican view of the world, or a Democratic view of the world.

Don't hate.  It is unflattering, unamerican and frankly just flat wrong.


by chrisblask 2008-06-03 01:06PM | 0 recs
I actually believe you're being honest

You probably DO think McCain's an asshole --- but because he's "too easy on brown people," he "believes in shamnesty," he's "not a real Republican" blah blah blah.

You think he's an asshole because he's not enough of a right winger for your tastes.

You've got GOP written all over you --- pissed at McCain's nomination but damn sure never going to vote for the Democrat (ESPECIALLY if that Democrat were a woman or black!).


by Slim Tyranny 2008-06-03 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I actually believe you're being honest

WTF? Ive been on this site for almost three years now- I'm a pissed off Democrat and I'm proud of it!

by bsavage 2008-06-03 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

"Gov. Succubus" ??

That's vile.  Is the next step from the TaylorMarsh troll crowd to diminish every female politician whose name doesn't end in Clinton?

Hillary herself would disown cowards like you.

by evantakesall 2008-06-03 12:08PM | 0 recs
Sen. Clinton may be

open for the VP slot, but Bill has effectively killed that dream.  What a goddammed shame, because 5 months ago I would have said this would have been an unbeatable ticket (either way).

by gchaucer2 2008-06-03 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

It's a smart move on her part.
If Obama doesn't offer her the position, then she can say that she tried to be a part of the "new" coalition.

Obama will NOT offer her the VP position.  I don't care how many people call for a coalition... Obama doesn't want to be near Hillary.  The only thing she can do for him (in Obama's opinion) is convince her supporters to vote for him.

Other than that, Obama can't stand Hillary.  And most important, Axelrod wants to control this campaign.  No way he'll allow Hillary's people to get involved in the "inner circle".

by stefystef 2008-06-03 11:49AM | 0 recs
It's about policy - Iraq

how can you hammer McSame for supporting the war, when your running mate, any running mate, voted for the war, and has refused to apologize for the vote (like Edwards).

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: It's about policy - Iraq

...and has suggested that you are NOT qualified to be Commander In Chief.

I don't see Hillary (and Bill) as someone that Obama could trust to have his back.

by JoeCoaster 2008-06-03 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

"Obama will NOT offer her the VP position"--stefysef

Yes he will, but he will wait until his numbers decline some more. He will resist but the voters will insist. The price of convincing "her supporters to vote for him" is the VP. No VP, no support. The message has been sent out today. Politics is brutal. Obama and his wife should suck it up. The problem is the "old" coalition still exists in sufficient numbers to make the "new" coalition look like a bad experiment. You're right, it is a smart move on Hillary's part. Obama will try to ignore, but reality will catch up by July. Clinton is sitting on a lot of leverage.

by superetendar 2008-06-03 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I think politics is even more brutal than you think.  There's only one winner, and he/she chooses the VP.

I know many Clinton supporters, and many of them grumble about Clinton being the most qualified, don't see the difference between Obama and McCain (!), blah, blah.  But ignore the emotions, focus on the issues (Roe v Wade, war crimes investigations, environment, civil rights, healthcare, economy, etc.), and they come home.

by amitxjoshi 2008-06-03 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I've never seen the QB of the losing team walk off the field demanding his name be on the trophy because he only lost by 1 point.

by SpanishFly 2008-06-03 01:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

True, but in the Olympics I've seen the person who just barely lost from the winner mount the podium at the second place spot all the time.

Funny that.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Interesting idea, but did you ever consider that, on the winning World Series team, all of the pitchers get rings?  

Also, by your standard, Obama should also eliminate many great VP candidates, either because he beat them for the nomination, or because they didn't even get into the game.  

The only side we need to defeat is the Republicans.  So far, all Obama has won is the opportunity to compete in the finals in November.  And the only, ONLY job of the VP candidate is to help his win the presidency.  

If Senator Obama is as astute a politician as I believe him to be, he will choose the VP candidate who will help to get the electoral votes needed to win the presidency - regardless of personality (actually, presidents and VPs often do not have a lot of day-to-day contact while in office), differences in philosophy, etc.  

Everyone thought there was no chance that Ronald Reagan would EVER pick G.H.W. Bush for VP, as they had butted heads pretty severely during the primary season.  However, Reagan and his advisors saw that Bush would bring a lot to the ticket.  

Heck, there have even been U.S. presidential elections where the nominee allowed the runner-up to name the VP candidate!  Politics is a messy business, but anyone who loses sight of the practical and pragmiatic will likely not get the chance to serve in office.  

by BillCat 2008-06-03 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Well let's wait and see a few months down the road. Only time will tell.

by superetendar 2008-06-03 01:24PM | 0 recs
Obviously it will be Obama's decision
and it's not so much Hillary that bothers me per se, but I'm leery of the fact that Bill comes with her. I just don't know what baggage he has hiding in his closet. Makes me nervous.
by DemsRising 2008-06-03 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obviously it will be Obama's decision

That Todd Purdum article is probably making a lot of folks nervous about whether he would survive the traditional vetting the vp nominee's spouse gets.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-03 11:52AM | 0 recs
I haven't even read it yet
But ya gotta know that even if he (or she for that matter) were clean, it just seems like that choice would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull, which would make it a miserable GE period. I'd much prefer to start 'fresh.'
by DemsRising 2008-06-03 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Honestly, I don't understand why it took so long for us to get to this point, but I'm glad we're here.  I am sorry for how I have at times reacted in this campaign.  I'm hopeful moving forward and am determined to support Obama without falling into the same bitterness that I got caught up in in the primary.  I learned some things about myself in this time.  I have some growing up to do.  Here's hoping we can all see each other as just normal people all over again.  Heck, here's even hoping we can be respectful in our efforts to beat McCain.

by proseandpromise 2008-06-03 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Nicely said. Thank you.

by Black Anus 2008-06-03 12:10PM | 0 recs
It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the country

Even Hillary's most ardent supporters must know that 45% of the country absolutely hates her--and no I don't mean the short-term animosity of some Obama supporters. In fact, it was her strength to deal with the horrible right-wing attacks which made many of her supporters admire her so much.

Sadly though, Hillary is to the right-wing exactly what Bush is to us--someone with whom we can never like.

I don't think Hillary on the ticket works, for that reason--we might win the election 55-45, but then we'd also spend the next 4-8 years fighting tooth and nail with that 45%. I would rather a VP where we can win 53-47, but then actually get a good chunk of that 47% to work with us after we win. Much as we'd like to think otherwise, we can't put this country back together without a big slice of the Republicans helping out.

by 2501 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

Unfortunately, Barack Obama's candidacy no longer fits Barack Obama's original goal of uniting the country.  His negatives are as high or almost as high (depending what data you look at) as hers and he has only been really in the spotlight for six months.

I'm not saying this as an argument for putting HRC on the ticket.  But the whole business about Hillary mobilizing the GOP base or preventing a landslide is nonsense at this point.  Have you been on Redstate or watched Fox recently?  Those people hate Obama at this point just as much or more than they ever hated Hillary.  He's a polarizing partisan figure at this point, and its only going to get worse once the GOP slime machine really starts.

by Fuzzy Dunlop 2008-06-03 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

His skin color told me he would have high negatives with Republicans. It took Ohio and Pennsylvania to show me that Democrats are almost as bad. I thought that crap went away when the Dixiecrats become Republicans.
by antiHyde 2008-06-03 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

"Unfortunately, Barack Obama's candidacy no longer fits Barack Obama's original goal of uniting the country.  His negatives are as high or almost as high (depending what data you look at) as hers and he has only been really in the spotlight for six months."--Fuzzy Dunlop

A + grade for the most astute comment of the day!

by superetendar 2008-06-03 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

depending what data you look at

This would be enlightening.  Please, share some of this data.  Because all of the opinion polling I've seen shows that Obama has better net favorables than either Mccain or Clinton, and if IIRC, also lower negatives.

by TL 2008-06-03 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

Rasmussen just stopped tracking Clinton's favorability, but the general pattern over the last few weeks has been Clinton and Obama with more or less the same favorability ratings (right now Obama is at 49/48, up from a low of 45/53 a few days ago) and McCain a bit better.  The other major org to track these things is Gallup, which releases monthly reports and whose last report (in early May I think) showed Obama outperforming Clinton.  It was like 54/40 for him to 48/44 for her or something like that.  So it just depends on the data.

by Fuzzy Dunlop 2008-06-03 12:59PM | 0 recs
Clinton supporters

His negatives are so high because 30-40% of Clinton supporters are currently saying they won't vote for him.  His high negatives are not coming from the GOP side of the aisle, or Independents where he is strongly supported.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton supporters

Ok, show me some data on that.

by Fuzzy Dunlop 2008-06-03 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: It doesn't fit Obama's goal of uniting the cou

A + grade for the most astute comment of the day!


by Fuzzy Dunlop 2008-06-03 01:01PM | 0 recs
Everyone hates her? Not really.

The right wing isn't going to vote for us under any circumstances, so I don't care what they think about Hillary. The base we need to worry about is our own. As a general proposition, I really believe this idea that everyone hates Hillary has been laid to rest by her performance in the primaries. A person who is truly hated by 45% of the country doesn't get to a virtual tie in the race for the nomination. And, however much weight you think polls at this stage of the game deserve, Hillary IS currently performing better against McCain than Obama both in ECVs and popular vote. I think Hillary would be a huge asset to the ticket because she'll help to unify the Democratic Party - and, folks, there are more of us than there are of them. If the Democratic Party is unified, we win. Period.

by Not the only Dem in KS 2008-06-03 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Everyone hates her? Not really.

"The right wing isn't going to vote for us under any circumstances"

It's really more about energizing their base than about having them come over to our side.  There are some that believe that Republicans will be much more motivated to come out of the woodwork if there's a Clinton on the ballot.

I'm not sure about that but I do worry about Bill's closet.

by SpanishFly 2008-06-03 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Everyone hates her? Not really.

My point is that it doesn't matter if we energize their base. We outnumber them. If we energize OUR base, we win.

by Not the only Dem in KS 2008-06-03 12:48PM | 0 recs
Not energized

She will de-energize a very large portion of our base.  I don't see her adding anything positive to the ticket.  

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Not energized

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

by Not the only Dem in KS 2008-06-03 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Have a safe trip and thank you for your positive post.

by JulieinVT 2008-06-03 11:53AM | 0 recs
it will be really funny

to see alegre and others who committed to voting for McCain have to vote against Hillary as veep.

by ab03 2008-06-03 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: it will be really funny

Has Alegre ever said that?  To my knowledge, and to her credit, she hasn't.  

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: it will be really funny

I don't have a link, but I have seen a comment in which alegre (grudgingly, grudgingly) wrote that she would support the Dem nominee in the fall.

To her credit.

Now "Texas"Darlin and Lin Farley are a whole different story.  I think Lin is a democrat at heart and won't be able to bear the thought of a McCain presidency.  TD writes diaries at No Quarter; no further explanation necessary.

by Koan 2008-06-03 12:58PM | 0 recs
my bad

i shouldn't have made a statement like that without proof.  Sorry alegre.  And I have mad respect for you for supporting the dem nominee (however begrudgingly).

Again, I apologize

by ab03 2008-06-03 02:18PM | 0 recs

thank you for providing a forum for HRC supporters where they had an equal voice.  much appreciated.

by canadian gal 2008-06-03 12:01PM | 0 recs
are you leaving?

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:02PM | 0 recs

but probably will be here much less...

by canadian gal 2008-06-03 12:03PM | 0 recs
even if hillary is tabbed to be veep?

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: even if hillary is tabbed to be veep?

if she is vp - i will still be blogging with regularity.

by canadian gal 2008-06-03 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: even if hillary is tabbed to be veep?

well, at least you're not saying you won't vote for obama.

i guess i'd stop blogging if obama wasn't the nominee but I would still probably donate and obviously vote for hillary.  

a vote is a vote, whether it is made begrudgingly or enthusiastically.  

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:12PM | 0 recs
i think she's canadian.


by sepulvedaj3 2008-06-03 12:48PM | 0 recs
it was only about Hillary?

I thought you blogged about principle, regardless of the candidate.  Oh well.

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-03 12:12PM | 0 recs

let this one go. sports analogy: you might love baseball, but you care a little (usually a lot) less once your team is out of it.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:14PM | 0 recs
This ain't baseball, ab

Baseball is for entertainment. It's true that if (all right, when) the SF Giants fall out of contention I stop caring about the playoffs, but lives and basic liberties are at stake in this election.

by obsessed 2008-06-03 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: This ain't baseball, ab

Perspective please, we're talking about blogging on MyDD

If you blog here you're not saving lives and basic liberties. You're just having discussions with other like minded people who have politics as a hobby.

We're not the 101 Fighting Keyboard Commandos

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:43PM | 0 recs

point i was trying to make.  waning interest in politics during election season about a candidate you already know you are going to vote for will not destroy the world

by ab03 2008-06-03 02:19PM | 0 recs
As another Canadian Gal

that makes me sad.  We might have often disagreed but I always felt sympatico to a compatriot from the frozen north.  I hope you change your mind.

by GFORD 2008-06-03 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: As another Canadian Gal

ditto.  we'll see....  

hopefully it will be a unity ticket...

by canadian gal 2008-06-03 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: As another Canadian Gal

Your diaries constantly make the Rec.List in part because Obama supporters (like myself) love your diaries and rec. them up.

It would be a shame for you to leave. You do alot of good around here.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-03 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: no.

Much love, canadian gal.  You've been a forceful and good-faith advocate for your candidate.  Hope you stick around.

by Koan 2008-06-03 01:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

This is the first post by Jerome in a long time which is based on some sort of reality.  Welcome back to the real world, Jerome!

by marley 2008-06-03 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I think she is watching today any leverage she might have garnered from her primary fight start to evaporate.....the game of "will she or won't she concede today" is being made moot as new superd's keep announcing for Obama as the day goes on. The question of "What does hillary want?" will eventually stop being asked as the party rallys around the presumptive nominee...

by feliks 2008-06-03 12:04PM | 0 recs
Here's the quandry...

I'm not personally opposed to HRC as VP.  I wasn't personally opposed to HRC atop the ticket last year, when  -- and this is NOT snark -- it looked all but inevitable.

I'll go even further and say that so long as it doesn't hurt - forget help - the ticket, I'm in favor of it.


Dubya won in 2004 with about 62 million votes (to Kerry's 59 million).   Yes, yes -- EV and all -- but my point is this.

Even accepting the tremendous turnout this primary cycle -- we're still looking at about 35 million ballots cast.  For the sake of argument and caucus 'normalization' - let's say 40 million.

That's still 20 (likely 25) million votes Obama needs to pull from non-affiliated, non-partisan, non-plugged into the process voters, as well as moderate and disgruntled GOPers.

What effect, if any, does an HRC on the ticket have on them?  If none or negligible, then I hope he offers it to her.  She's clearly qualified and beyond her AUMF and Kyl-Lieberman vote, there's not a lot in her voting record I find fault with.

To be sure - the flip side of the coin is that Obama also needs all of HRC's 17-18 million votes.

But it's a balancing act.  In the cold-hearted light of reality, I think it's an open question as to whether it hurts or doesn't hurt to have her on the ticket.  Do note - I'm not being devious by discounting "helps" -- if she does help, that's gravy... but historically, the VP hasn't really done much for the top of ticket, vote-wise (but this has certainly been a cycle of firsts).

by zonk 2008-06-03 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Here's the quandry...

About those 17 million votes, how many were from ordinary (non-blogger) voters who preferred her but found him acceptable? I can't believe they all want Hillary or let the world be destroyed.

by antiHyde 2008-06-03 12:26PM | 0 recs
Breaking: AP reports that Obama has...

officially clinched the nomination by their tally:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id= D912NTSO0&show_article=1

by Elsinora 2008-06-03 12:05PM | 0 recs
Not too enthusiastic, are we

"Anyway, congrats to Obama ..."

Congrats?  Sounds like something you'd say when someone gets promoted or something.  Not something you'd say when someone's one step away from becoming the SuperHuman of the Universe.

by Sieglinde 2008-06-03 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Not too enthusiastic, are we

I thought he was running to become POTUS. That means I've been following the wrong race all this time!

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Not too enthusiastic, are we

Get with the program!  :)

by Sieglinde 2008-06-03 02:32PM | 0 recs
this is the bargaining phase....then comes


by slinkerwink 2008-06-03 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

ay guey.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

To be honest, I'm shocked.

I was betting, like Jerome, that she'd have more interest in using her capital to reform the nomination process.

by jwt999 2008-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

She never wanted reform, only power.

by antiHyde 2008-06-03 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

You need power to enact reform and the Obama party coup plotters were already shoving the Clinton's out the door. VP position offers  protection, it is a political door stop for Clinton and her supporters made up of hispanics, older women, blue collar men, retirees, the poor, etc., to make sure that they continue to have a voice in the party and that the door is not slammed in our faces.

by superetendar 2008-06-03 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I'm a blue collar man and I don't support Hillary. I don't know a single blue collar man who does. I do know a few older white blue collar women who do. The younger and non-white of all ages support Obama.

by antiHyde 2008-06-05 07:22PM | 0 recs
Have a safe trip

I'm not sure why this is news; Clinton was floating the "Dream Ticket" idea in late February after Wisconsin.

It didn't go over well then, and it's not going over well now.

Anyways, I hope your trip is restful, Jerome.  I'm looking forward to seeing what this place looks like while sane.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-03 12:10PM | 0 recs
MyDD Electoral Map needs to be updated.

Obama beats McCain by 5 in Missouri in SUSA's new poll.

SurveyUSA. 5/16-18. Likely voters. MoE 4.1%

5/16-18    Tot   Men Wom   Whi Bla His   Rep Dem Ind
Obama  (D)  47    40  53    47  54  15    10  76  50
McCain (R)  42    51  34    41  43  73    85  13  36

by Dumbo 2008-06-03 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: MyDD Electoral Map needs to be updated.

damn he's losing hispanics 73-15? lets hope that improves, cause that is terrible.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-03 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: MyDD Electoral Map needs to be updated.

True. But I suspect he'll do better than 54% of the black vote.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: MyDD Electoral Map needs to be updated.

yeah. those numbers are wierd. only 54% of the black vote...I say this poll is questionable.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-03 12:18PM | 0 recs
Eh, my mistake.

Pardon moi.  Those are Minnesota numbers.

Here are the Missouri numbers.  Obama ahead by two!

SurveyUSA. 5/16-18. Likely voters. MoE 4.1%
5/16-18    Tot   Men Wom   Whi Bla His   Rep Dem Ind
McCain (R)  43    48  38    46  15  38    84  14  48
Obama  (D)  45    43  48    40  85  62    12  74  36

by Dumbo 2008-06-03 12:46PM | 0 recs
That might be good news...

I think he can only improve on those numbers on the Hispanic vote. Especially with McCain tough talk to appease the right wingers and his saying that he would not support his own initiative being voted on at this point. Plus, the Republican Party label can't help McCain with this voter segment... (I know it does not help him with me, a hispanic)...

by gustavoNYC 2008-06-03 12:46PM | 0 recs
"Hope" and "Work"

Jerome's heartfelt and enthusiastic congratulations offered to his party's nominee:

"Anyway, congrats to Obama, for it looks like this is the day he pulls over the magic number for becoming the Democratic nominee. We should all hope he wins while running against McCain."

Obama's campaign has been one based on "hope" for the future of our country - that's certain. But Obama won the nomination with hard work. What say you, Jerome? Ready to roll up the sleeves and go to work to ensure a Democrat takes the oath of office in January?

by Goober Pea 2008-06-03 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I wasn't a big fan of the "Dream Ticket" when it began being floated early on.

But I think now, it'd probably be best if Obama took this deal.

First, it takes the question of uniting the party pretty much out of play. He probably would be able to do it anyway, but it would take unneccessary time, money and energy.

Second, he's going to be in the awkward of position of either taking a male VP or looking like he took a second-choice female VP as a pandering move.

Third, in terms of qualifications and name-recognition, she blows away anything McCain could put forth.  She makes McCain's pick look insignificant by comparison.

She has high negatives, but I think it's still worth it on balance.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

And let me add fourth, it takes away any possibility of any awkwardness at the convention.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

as a pick, it's probably the best.

I just hate the idea of press leaks coming that bill clinton (or others) are not on the same page in terms of policy.  that first domestic fight may or may not be universal healthcare and they are going to differ on it.  i can't imagine hillary accepting anything less than carte blanche.

also, how will it look when hillary's experienced staffers clash with obama's rookies.  I think the young Obama staff (like the young Clinton staff) should be allowed to work through the growing pains.

Give Hillary any other job, appoint her to the S.C., whatever she wants, but having her staff in the White House is too much.

The most powerful person after Obama in the White House should be someone that Obama picks himself.  If Hillary is Veep, it will automatically be her, no matter how hard Obama tries to make it someone else.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

If the United States ever gets smart and goes with proportional representation, we'll see this sort of thing become commonplace.  Think of it as a coalition government :)

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:23PM | 0 recs
coalition government

think they work?  personally not fond of those.  

this will be a very important presidency and i would like to make sure it doesn't start failing right away from internal bickering of the coalition.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: coalition government

That's a risk I'm willing to take to make it more certain that there will be a presidency at all.

I'm not one to talk in absolutes, I prefer odds.  I think there's at least a 65% chance Obama beats McCain right now.  I think immediately accepting Clinton as VP improves that.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:36PM | 0 recs
i agree with that statement

and i think obama could also increase his chances with a few other VP picks, though hillary might be the best.

I just think it's prudent to have a little more foresight.  4 more years of Obama/Clinton will not be worth it if it means another 12 years of republicans right after.  

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: i agree with that statement


Let me add this: If he's going to do it, he needs to do it immediately.  Within 48 hours of the end of the race, which will be tonight.

Any longer, and it makes her look weaker or makes him look like he was forced to do it.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 12:45PM | 0 recs
When the Constitution was first implemented...

the VP was, by law, whoever came in second in the general election.  It worked absolutely horribly, which is why the law was changed to give the president free choice of who the veep will be.

So no, I would not call such an arrangement "getting smart"...more like "returning to what didn't work and hoping something has changed."

by Elsinora 2008-06-03 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: When the Constitution was first implemented...

well, to be fair, the constitution allowed a Pres and VP to be from different parties.  That obviously is different from at least having a situation where the guy who comes in second in the primary automatically gets on the ticket.  But in certain instances, it can still be bad.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:52PM | 0 recs
I think she is forcing him to reject !

If he rejects her many of her supporters would be pissed. He would be in really great trouble. LOL

by indydem99 2008-06-03 12:17PM | 0 recs
Hillary or Not Hillary?

The positive she would add is her bringing in the 40+ white women.  I think Obama is going to do fine with working white males on his own, the economy will dictate that.  And his taking her on won't help there, regardless.

So basically, the question is, will those 40+ white women come back to Obama without Hillary.  I think, slowly, yes.  Time will heal that wound and they'll look at McCain and see him for what he is.

Therefore, even though I'm not 100% against picking her for VP like I was a week ago, I still come down on the side of not picking her.  A clean break from all this nastiness is needed.  Having her on the ticket opens the door to a lot of sniping from the McCain camp, using HER OWN statements about Obama against him.  No doubt they'll use them anyway but how much more powerful will they be if she's the VP?

And Bill, on the ticket effectively with Hillary, is a liability these days.  I think he can be a huge asset in many ways but putting his baggage and Hillary's negatives on the ticket isn't wise.

Obama has time to sort this all out.  I'm sure he's got 3 or 4 candidates in mind.  Much like the rest of his campaign, I'm sure this will be handled professionally.  

Go Barack!

by SpanishFly 2008-06-03 12:19PM | 0 recs
It is about Bill

Sen. Clintons biggest issue for being VP is going to be Bill.   I think it would be hard for him, as shown in this campaign, to sit back and let others drive.

Additionally, there hasn't been a lot of scrutiny yet on their finances since 2001.  For the most part, ex-Presidents get a pass.  Yes, they did release some limited data, but they would get a whole lot more focus if she is on the ticket.  

I think there would be a lot of unecessary attention placed on Bill and his role in the general.  I think even more than if she were the head of the ticket.

Overall, I think it is very bad for the Democrats.  I think that Hillary should keep her Senate seat and work on promoting her legislation (healthcare) from the legislative branch.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 12:21PM | 0 recs
hillary's senate seat

people are saying that she has jeopardized her credibility but I think that she is in line to become the next Ted Kennedy or Byrd if she wants to - not a bad gig.  She could be influencing policy long after Obama is gone and she could secure her place in history as a great statesman (stateswoman) of our time.  

Unfortunately, Bill will have to find another route to political fame.  not much clout from being a senator's spouse as there is from being a VP's spouse.  

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:25PM | 0 recs
Let's not just "hope" he wins

Let's work towards it.

by nightsweat 2008-06-03 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

It disappoints me to see she interested in being his VP. It might not come out to anything, but it's a cunning move nonetheless.

by bowiegeek 2008-06-03 12:25PM | 0 recs
VP will have been against Iraq war in 2002

Limits the field to folks like:


Who else?

by parahammer 2008-06-03 12:26PM | 0 recs

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: richardson

Yep, Im sure he is on the list.

by parahammer 2008-06-03 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: VP will have been against Iraq war in 2002


by antiHyde 2008-06-03 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean
Wow wouldn't that be something.
Talk about getting people fired up.
by parahammer 2008-06-03 12:31PM | 0 recs
Mark Warner

Would be an unbeatable ticket me thinks.

by wasder 2008-06-03 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: VP will have been against Iraq war in 2002

Dean?  Please, dear God, no!

Seriously, what would Dean bring to the ticket that would improve Obama's chances?  Vermont?  Nope, got that one already.  Progressives?  Nope, got that one, too.  I just don't see what Dean would add to the liklihood of winning.

While I understand that Obama fans probably love Dean as well, Dean supporters are already on board for Obama.  

We need someone who would significantly add to Obama's liklihood of winning enough electoral votes - and, in my opinion, Dean does not.  

by BillCat 2008-06-03 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: VP will have been against Iraq war in 2002

Gore (but he wouldn't take the job)
Sherrod Brown (my favorite never-mentioned candidate) - against the war, pro-gay rights, 100% NARAL, voted against the Patriot Act, decent healthcare record, etc.

On the other hand both Feingold and Brown are Senators (non-ideal for multiple reasons) and both might be considered "too liberal".

by PantsB 2008-06-03 12:42PM | 0 recs
And OH is a swing state of course -nt-

by PantsB 2008-06-03 12:43PM | 0 recs
There are better choices

First off, I don't think VP choices actually affect the race in a significant way. So, barring a terrible choice, I don't think it matters.

If he wants to improve his support among her strong demographic groups, there are better choices, e.g. Richardson if he wants to bolster support among Hispanics, any of a number of excellent women governors or senators if he wants to improve his support among women, someone from Ohio or PA if he wants to improve his support in those states, etc.

I really think there is a vanishingly small number of "Clinton or nothing" people who could seriously be won over with such a gambit. How many Larry Johnsons are really out there?

Fundamentally, picking Hillary as a running mate undermines his message of change (and his position on Iraq), while simultaneously picking up the substantial Clinton baggage.

It also validates the notion that he is missing some sort of essential quality she has and that he "has to" add her to the ticket to get a viable package. McCain can claim that we had to build a two-headed monster in order to get a complete candidate. If Obama picks somebody else, he can say "Look, Hillary was wrong about me, and I proved it by beating her." Adding her to the ticket would just make him look wimpy - he needs to project the image of a winner.

(Just so noone is confused - in that last sentence I'm not calling Hillary wimpy.)

If he does choose Hillary as VP, I hope she cleans house, cause I'd hate to see her dragging around losers like Mark Penn on the general election campaign trail.

by fwiffo3 2008-06-03 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

The most important thing is to win the Presidency.

Patterson can appoint another Democrat to fill Hillary's seat in the Senate.

Obama has a problem with jewish voters, blue collar voters, hispanics. Hillary has connected with these voters. Richardson would help with hispanics, a Bob Casey or Ted Strickland might help with blue collar voters... but Hillary would help with women voters, hispanic voters, blue collar voters and jewish voters.

She has earned the right to be at least considered for the ticket. She has proven herself to be a great campaigner, she would fit the attack dog role perfectly.

She's a plausible President, it would be the easiest way to unify the party, she helps with key demographics. She also brings a huge fundraising network, Obama may be raising money well but Clinton would give us an even bigger edge. This is the dream ticket in my view.

Yes she'd need to explain some of her past comments and he'd need to explain some of his, but thats nothing compared to the advantages she brings.

Obama/Clinton '08 is our best way to win.

by liberalj 2008-06-03 12:32PM | 0 recs
just don't like the next 4 years

of that partnership.

there will be leaks of one camp bickering about the other.  the press will seek it out and cultivate the divide.  

if Hillary thought about it, she would realize it's not the best move.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

There's nothing new in primary rivals who've been nasty about each other being on the same ticket.

We need to win, thats the priority and its something Democrats have been good at forgetting over the years.

Hillary is a partisan and a professional, a lot of Obama supporters like to imply that her own ambition is more important than advancing progressive values but thats just not true.

She would not cause trouble in the WH, she'd be an advocate for truly UHC (which i strongly support). She still has Presidential ambitions, being a disloyal VP would destroy those ambitions.

by liberalj 2008-06-03 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

UHC - perfect example.  Think she's going to back down from her plan?  think obama should?  Do you want these to be the headlines of the obama presidency in March?  

seems like Reagan/Bush was the only feuding ticket that worked in the long run (and they didn't feud very hard) but there have been plenty more that didn't work or didn't get elected.  And nobody can deny that this year has been particularly divisive (no the fault of either candidate - just is for the other factors involved).

and even if she doesn't want to cause trouble, there's a good chance her people won't play nice with Obama's people.

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

Actually i've seen plenty of people deny that this primary has been anymore divisive than past primaries.

Its been part of the Obama campaign meme that Clinton has been campaigning dirty. Of course Obama has been campaigning like a saint.

Lots of Obama supporters assume the worst about Clinton. She's spent her whole adult life fighting for progressive values, she's exactly the kind of leader i and at least 17m other voters want in the WH.

by liberalj 2008-06-03 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

its been divisive.  not just one from side or the other but it's been overall divisive.  undeniable.  maybe just because of sheer length.  and, it only takes looking at exit polls to realize the divisiveness of it.

she's not inherently bad for the WH - she just wouldnt' mesh well with obama.  that doesn't mean she's not progressive, it just means that she's better as a #1, not a #2.  That mistake has been made too many times by campaigns, most recently Kemp/Dole...I mean Dole/Kemp.

by ab03 2008-06-03 01:05PM | 0 recs
and you didn't answer the healthcare question

there is a difference between the two plans - who's going to back down?

by ab03 2008-06-03 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: and you didn't answer the healthcare question

Clinton obviously if she can't persuade Obama.

by liberalj 2008-06-03 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

Well off course it been a very divisive campaign. the candidates both got around 50% and have very deeply committed people backing them

I think most people mean to say that it hasn't been a very dirty campaign historically speaking.

If the worst that people can quote as dirty campaigning is an comment or two over the course of months... Then it's been a very clean campaign indeed. Even if it has been divisive

by Ernst 2008-06-03 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: just don't like the next 4 years

well, divisive is bad enough.  even if it isn't dirty, these people don't like each other

by ab03 2008-06-03 02:15PM | 0 recs
Reagan-Bush Fued

It was tame to non-existant compared to this.  Also, don't forget that Bush was a mush more laid back persona willing to stay out of the spot light.   Bush hardly did anything in the first term except go to funerals.

Unless Clinton is willing to accept that role, and I don't this she is, she should not be on the ticket.  She should stay in Senate and work on being a leader there.

She spent way too many days bashing Obama and stating that he was unqualified to work under him.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 01:25PM | 0 recs
Have you read Vanity Fair?

It was damn sleazy but it made me step back and go whoa.  That 9 page article alone is why she won't be VP but I'm sure she will have a cabinet position.

by sweet potato pie 2008-06-03 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Have you read Vanity Fair?

like i said, give her any other job she wants - just not Veep.  

by ab03 2008-06-03 12:49PM | 0 recs
Way to stay classy, Jerome!

We should all hope he wins while running against McCain.

by amitxjoshi 2008-06-03 12:36PM | 0 recs
I've said it before.....

Picking any WarDem as his running mate will undermine one of Obama's principle advantages over Bush/McCain.

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-03 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

I respect this post. Thanks Jerome.

McCain would be terrible for our country. He really is Bush III. Now I hope we can focus our collective hate and anger on him because he will further carry out his destructive policies for our country.

by heyhellowhatsnew 2008-06-03 12:47PM | 0 recs
VP who voted for the war

... plays right into McCain's hands

Thing of all the times Obama has slammed McCain over the last few weeks. With HRC as VP McCain can some right back and say that both Obama's VP and her ex-president phreshly-philandering significant other also supported the war.

by obsessed 2008-06-03 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: VP who voted for the war

Somehow, I don't think that McCain will be able to criticize the VP nominee for orignally supporting the war without getting a whole lot of egg on his own face.

Besides, as WJC once noted, "It's the economy, stupid!"  While the disaster in Iraq is a good issue, the current economic woes are a GREAT issue!  

by BillCat 2008-06-03 01:46PM | 0 recs
hillary should withdraw her name

from consideration for VP so Obama won't have to choose between hurting himself by naming her or hurting himself by not naming her.

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-03 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Safe travels, Jerome.

by JoeW 2008-06-03 12:50PM | 0 recs
'Congrats to Obama?'

Mr Spock: 'I can't believe my ears.'

Cpt Kirk: 'I can't believe your ears either, Mr Spock.'

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-03 12:51PM | 0 recs
Bill's attacks on Obama

are another reason Hillary should withdraw her name from consideration. Only yesterday he was carrying on about an Obama/press conspiracy to get Hillary.

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-03 12:51PM | 0 recs
She would whisk him to the white house

Like a damn lead balloon.  I wish she had quit and endorsed when it became clear he would be the nominee, instead of dragging it out in a frenzy of race-baiting.

Stay.  Far.  Away. Barack.

by lojasmo 2008-06-03 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: FYI - Kossackland

McClellan has more personal integrity than Jerome (5+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
    Bob Johnson, cookiesandmilk, allmost liberal european, banjolele, 2questions


"We should all hope he wins"?  That's the best he can do?

What an embarassment to the netroots that guy has become in the past couple of months.

One of the people uprating was Bob Johnson.
Considering how many times he posted here,
I think it is rude and vulgar beyond description.
Jerome would be perfectly in his rights to ban him.

But, of course, Jerome far more tact than most.

by johnnygunn 2008-06-03 01:11PM | 0 recs
why is that rude?

people are saying basically that in this thread.  i don't agree but it seems like a valid complaint

by ab03 2008-06-03 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: why is that rude?
If you feel that way -
Then why are you posting on Jerome's website?
It makes you rather a hypocrite.
by johnnygunn 2008-06-03 01:23PM | 0 recs
that is not what hypocrite means

Or, are the only people allowed on this site people who agree with Jerome all the time?

Like I said, I don't agree with that poster, but I don't see the problem in him saying it.  

Hypocrisy would be if I posted on a democrat website, called myself a democrat, and then voted for a republican for president.  

and, honestly, that's not hypocrisy either if you truly believe that mccain stands for your democrat ideals.

by ab03 2008-06-03 02:13PM | 0 recs
You can't ban someone for what they say elsewhere!

And frankly, I agree that Jerome, after the last few months of literally taking every opportunity to slam Obama and kill off his supporters here, owes this community and Barack Obama a lot more than the soft noodle he threw out there with this post.  He wasn't wrong to support Hillary but he was certainly harmful in many respects to the tone set here and our ability to come together, even now.  Many have been BEGGING him to stop pouring gasoline on the fire for quite a while now.

I hope when he gets back he makes an attempt to make amends but more importantly, to fire up the troops for our candidate.  This is going to be a dog fight and we need guys like Jerome out there swinging at the damn enemy!

by SpanishFly 2008-06-03 01:27PM | 0 recs
Start the healing process!

Restore rec/rate.

by really not a troll 2008-06-03 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

To see Bill, Hill, Michelle & Barack sharing one stage leading the Democrats to 16 Years of fundamental change in this country would definitely be Historic.

No doubt.

by devoted1 2008-06-03 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Have a safe trip!

by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 01:28PM | 0 recs
Wow Jerome!!

"Anyway, congrats to Obama, for it looks like this is the day he pulls over the magic number for becoming the Democratic nominee. We should all hope he wins while running against McCain."

you need to curb your enthusiasm before you have a grabber!!!  LOL

IMO having Hillary as VP is a bad idea for many reasons.

by PurpleMyst 2008-06-03 01:33PM | 0 recs
I'd like to announce

that I'm open to being Obama's VP as well.

But there's a 0.0001% chance that he'd pick me, and the same chance that I'd accept.

That's about where Hillary is.  She doesn't need to hop aboard the Hindenburg.

by Upstate Dem 2008-06-03 01:37PM | 0 recs
Her own words

The GOP already is running ads with her own words:

"And I think it is imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold. And I believe I have done that. Certainly, Senator McCain has done that. And you will have to ask Senator Obama with respect to his candidacy."

From this, it sounds to me like she wants to be John McCain's VP.  Who knows, maybe she will be.  But this is definitely not how you run against an opponent and still share the ticket.

Look, if she had spent the whole campaign stating that Obama was great but she was a better more awewome candidate, than she could definitely have been considered.
But, you can't call your opponent unqualified and seriously share the ticket.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Her own words

Where exactly did she say that Obama was unqualified?  Does he need to outsource his talking points?

I thought Obama was a master of persuasion.  Guess not.

by Upstate Dem 2008-06-03 01:51PM | 0 recs
between the lines

Are you really so thickheaded that you never heard of reading between the lines.  That is what politics is all about.

Clinton is a brilliant lawyer who knows how to parse language.   It is just like when she and her supporters started using the 'San Fransisco values' meme after Obama's bitter comment to raise anger against him.

What she said was absolutely, unabashedly that he was not qualified.  But the fact that you are unable to interpolate her language should come as no surprise.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: between the lines

Even though I agree with the overall point of upstatedem, we don't need the tone that either of you are taking right now.  We really don't.

Any experienced and competitive politician running against Obama--whoever he or she might be--would absolutely have pounced on Obama for some of the comments he has made during this election, just as any experienced and competitive politician would absolutely have pounced on Clinton for some of her comments.

The point is that, even so, Clinton never said outright that Obama was unqualified.  To rehash the nastiness of that part of the primary, at this point, is completely futile--and does nothing to bring the supporters of our respective camps together.  

by MMR2 2008-06-03 02:09PM | 0 recs

I will work to tone it down, but my anger is over the that so many of the postings here and elsewhere of her supporters are now holding him hostage to pick her as VP.  Stating you will only vote for him if he picks her is not building unity.  If she had won, I would not have expected her to pick him.  And I would not be demanding that she pick him.

The Presidential candidate needs to be fully comfortable in who they choose as a running mate.  I think this is exactly why Bill chose Gore in 1992.  Gore brought nothing extra to the table that year, but he was a political soul-mate for Clinton.

Obama needs the freedom to be able to do the same.  This union would be one ripe for divorce.  They are obivously not comfortable with one another and it is quite evident that her supporters want her playing second fiddle to no one.  

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Fine

Gore didn't bring a lot to the table? Are you serious? It's usually mentioned as one of the most inspired VP choices ever!

And you know what? If she had won, I would have expected her to pick him.  And I certainly would demand just that. With such a close finish you'd need a very good reason to overrule the preference of about half the party.

The right to name the VP nominee is not earned through virtue of his position of presidential nominee. The VP is nominated through the convention. 300 delegates are needed to nominate somebody for the position and then it is left up to an open floor vote.

And when somebody has +1900 delegates he or she has earned to have a say in the convention on these matters. Anybody with over 300 delegates has earned that according tot the rules. For Obama to force through a VP without taking those +1900 delegates into account would be sheer disdain toward the convention and it's rules.

by Ernst 2008-06-03 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Her own words

It IS how you run against an opponent...you may have disagreed with her tactics, but she ran a decent campaign and tried to create contrasts with her opponent like all politicians do.  

Reconiliation is something that happens a lot in politics.  LBJ consistently called John F. Kennedy unqualified in a bruising 1960 primary.  Once Kennedy won the nomination, however, he placed LBJ on his ticket--and both galvanized their party to victory.  Please explain to me the difference.

By the way, your quote isn't even half-bad compared to what she could have said.  She said "you will have to ask Senator Obama with respect to his candidacy."  That would make for a terrible attack ad, for one, and second, she could easily say as a VP candidate: "Well, Obama answered...and did so successfully".

by MMR2 2008-06-03 01:52PM | 0 recs
Not a problem

This (Clinton's statements) would not be a problem both Hillary and Obama can run circles around McCain. The problem would be the media. Obama is about to become the first African American nominee in history today and it's been all about Hillary.

The press would turn the Obama/Clinton ticket into a 24/7 soap opera. Can Barack control Bill? Does Michelle hate Hillary? Do the Clintons resent playing second fiddle? Inquiring minds want to know? It would be a circus no fault of Hillary's or Obamas and totaly out of their control.

One more obstacle. Obama's campaign will insist on discreetly vetting every detail of the Clinton's finances and business relationships. As they would any candidate. Bill might not go for that. He has declared his library and foundation donors out of bounds.

by hankg 2008-06-03 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Obama-Rendell- best overall.

by Skipster 2008-06-03 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Blech! Rendell's a horrible, corporate Democrat (and not a good public speaker, either). He's exactly the kind of dem we don't want in the white house.

by Liberaltarian 2008-06-03 02:43PM | 0 recs
Hillary Clinton is the next Frau Frabausa

If Hillary Clinton becomes Barack Obama's VP. Will she be Doctor Evils lady Frau Frabuasa.

by nkpolitics 2008-06-03 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Clinton is the next Frau Frabausa

It is Frau Farbissina.

by nkpolitics 2008-06-03 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's VP

Actually, I think We're all Democrats.I haven't had a single discussion on this issue from anyone.I'd be pleasantly suport  the man who is really democratics.

by anasky123 2008-06-24 11:26PM | 0 recs


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