Heads Expode Thread

"Yes She Will" was about as close as that moment came to an endorsement of Obama, or an acknowledgment of it being over by Clinton.

"No Decisions Tonight."

She wants to hear from you.

Feel free to splatter in the comments.

Of course, we've heard it before, but its worth mentioning again that the whole entire election depends upon unity happening right now within this very blog.

Update [2008-6-3 21:58:25 by Josh Orton]: A few minutes before Hillary began her speech, Lanny Davis told reporters in the hallway outside the gym that at midnight he'd be launching a petition drive to support a letter urging Obama to take Clinton as his VP. He said he's doing it on his own with two of Hillary's female supporters.

Tags: 2008 election, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: Heads Expode Thread

Is this snark?

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-06-03 05:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Haha! I tried to hurry in after I saw your unity comment, but you beat me to it.

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-03 05:52PM | 0 recs
Dealing with the McCain trolls on this blog

will go a long way toward fostering unity.

by Firewall 2008-06-03 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Oh, no worries.  She just wants to quit in the next few days.  The 'I will do what's best for my party and my country' line was the tipoff.  

Plenty in the crowd booed at the time, so I suppose I'm not the only one who saw it that way...

by Lawyerish 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Nice way to reach out to Obama supporters.

by PantsB 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Point is, it needs to be the

other way around.  The comments so far make it clear that it's not.

Read your history.  Victors, in any setting, who do not reach out to and bring the conquered into the fold, end up facing a fifth column.

In this way, politics is no different than military conquest, and if Obama doesn't bring his "troops" to heel and reach out then everyone's worst nightmare - a divided party - will become a reality.

by aggieric 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Heh, awesome. n/t

by sricki 2008-06-03 05:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Okay. you're officially hilarious!


by gcensr 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Is This Snark?

Serious question.

by turtlescrubber 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Haha. Is Jerome coming back? Is MyDD coming back? SAY IT IS SO!

by notxjack 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Hehe...I assumed you were Jerome Arnnstrong, and then did a double-take.

by randomscientist 2008-06-03 06:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Jerome posted WHAT?  How can we hate you if you do stuff like that? ;)

by thezzyzx 2008-06-03 06:05PM | 0 recs
Not one complement of Obama

Not one.


It is all about her.  

She doesn't give a damn if Democrats win or lose.

She had an opportunity tonight.  And she failed.

And so Harold Ickes has learned nothing from 1980.

I will never look or think about the Clintons in the same way.

by fladem 2008-06-03 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Not one complement of Obama

It's never been about the Democrats winning in 2008. It's been about HRC winning in 2008.

Glad to see another person's caught on to this.
Let's see to it that more do the same.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Not one complement of Obama

I just imagined that kid from Fat Albert walking up to her and saying, "Hillary, you're like school on a Saturday. No class."

by Lettuce 2008-06-03 06:37PM | 0 recs
Why would she complement someone...

who's campaign pushed a smear of wishing for his assassination?

by cosbo 2008-06-03 06:08PM | 0 recs
Because the only person

to have a chance to end the War, to enact health care reform, to defend the right to choose is Barak Obama.  He has won the nomination.  She has lost.  

If you actually care about those things, then you would try to make sure you did everything you could to try to make sure he wins.  

But she doesn't care about those things.  They are not relevant.  This isn't about the country.  It isn't about stopping a war.

It's about hurt feelings.

It's entirely personal.

by fladem 2008-06-03 06:21PM | 0 recs
Well seems to me "personal" means she's

actually a human. Whoda thunk. She must suck up all the abuse and take the hits like a good woman should and smile while she's about it too.

As for ending the war, health care reform or whatever else the democrats wanted....they should've nominated a candidate that the entire party is confident  they can win with. As it stands now...heh,

by cosbo 2008-06-03 07:18PM | 0 recs
Being a leader

means first and foremost acting in THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY, NOT YOURSELF.

That's leadership.

And she doesn't have it.

by fladem 2008-06-03 07:42PM | 0 recs
Selfish or experienced

Or is it experienced selfishness.

Doh, that logical conundrum you face with your pithy illogical statement.

by Regenman 2008-06-03 11:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Not one complement of Obama

You've never been a fan of Bill or Hillary Clinton here, so it is unclear to me that your opinion has changed.

by souvarine 2008-06-03 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread


by yitbos96bb 2008-06-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

What happened to you in the last 24 hours?  This end of the primary thing is eye opening for me.  I've never been through one before.  I'm seeing a lot of people 180 in a matter of hours.  Glad to see this side of Jerome.  Hope he sticks around.

by proseandpromise 2008-06-03 07:25PM | 0 recs

by Sandy1938 2008-06-03 07:37PM | 0 recs
There was absolutely nothin

about getting behind the nominee of the Democratic party.

This was shameful.

by Firewall 2008-06-03 05:51PM | 0 recs
Re: There was absolutely nothin

nah. i wish she would've given a different speech, but this is totally in character, and dare I say, shows her better side.

maybe i give her props cuz it really is over.

by Metrobot 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: There was absolutely nothin


by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: There was absolutely nothin

Am I snark?

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

she wants to fight fo the VP slot.

will be interesting, to see, how hard she pushes for it and if she gets it.

by TruthMatters 2008-06-03 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Not after this shameful display of self-servedness..

by LordMike 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

a good way for her to get a better shot at VP would've been to acknowledge that the race is over and Obama won.

by JustJack 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

she can't she does that what leverage does she have to force the Obama to offer the VP slot?

by TruthMatters 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

The leverage of being gracious and graceful while everybody else argues the merits, instead of personally appearing to resort to pressure tactics.  Nobody responds well to that, and nobody looks good responding to that.  I don't think she's being very strategic about this.

I wonder if she doesn't know better, or if she's trying to undermine her supposed bid for VP.

by Matt Smith 2008-06-03 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

an even better way would be to have not run a campaign which started with inevitability and then shifted it into racism and put the hammer down.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Thanks, Jerome, for the call-out for unity.  It's not before time for all of us.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-03 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Even such a snarky one?  Even so, I can't help but agree with you...

Woah, here comes 9/11

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Was that snark?  Methinksyes.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Well, he said it.  Perhaps the truth is simply too dangerous and too tragic for anything but jokes.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I am an Obama supporter, and don't begrudge her not dropping out.  But why hold this kind of rally to say....nothing.  It's not like it was held as a victory speech in SD.  She just wanted to get her equal air time when the networks were going to cover Obama.  I just don't get how this helps anyone.

by Oly 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I don't exactly agree with the way that the guy below you said it, but yes, it's about money and needing to talk to Obama about money and VP

by minnesotaryan 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I don't know why my clarification email didn't get posted under my original one, but it's about 10 posts down: http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/3/21 513/95522/20#20

by Oly 2008-06-03 05:56PM | 0 recs

Nothing wrong with going out with your head held high. I think we are going to be Ok. I think she is a good Democrat. And I think we will need her. I want to win and I want to win big. We will need all Democrats by fall.

by molly bloom 2008-06-03 05:56PM | 0 recs

I'm sorry but that went beyond pride and into a realm of delusion that was completely inappropriate.  I can't believe how little grace or class she showed by bringing up the popular vote lie and continuing to imply that Obama is not a strong candidate.

I was starting to feel bad for her, but if this is what she chooses to do when she should be trying to heal the party I have zero sympathy for her.  She clearly is unstable and cannot be trusted to make responsible decisions when it comes to what is REALLY best for both the party and the American people.  It would be a huge mistake for Obama to choose her as a VP at this point.

by Renie 2008-06-03 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

She threw a party for her supporters. Can't blame her.

by Lost Thought 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
It's the official END of the primaries.

Duh. She just wants to thank everyone who supported her. Duh.

by cosbo 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: It's the official END of the primaries.

I could see that being the case if she was ending the campaign, thanking people for supporting her.  But she didn't acknowledge the end of the primary, or that Obama won.  As it is, it was odd timing for a rally just to thank supporters (if that was the main purpose).

by Oly 2008-06-04 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Obama, without class, decided to make tonight all about himself and drown out Clinton.

What was the hurry?

by killjoy 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs

Why would he be such a jerk as to give a big speech on the night he secured the democratic nomination?

by kydoc2 2008-06-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah!

You think the superdelegates came out by accident today?
by killjoy 2008-06-03 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah!

Nope. It was good form for elected delegates to officially push the nominee over the line. Very good for party morale. It would have been seen as "pushing her out" for them to come out before now, but they had obviously already decided. They showed good taste and a genuine concern for the party to wait until today, and they knew that enough of them needed to be in place before the polls closed in Montana and south Dakota tonight. Perfect timing, for the sake of the party and November.

BTW don't you think Clinton knew that a sufficient number of those superdelegates had already made their minds up for Obama to seal the outcome? And yet, even now, she says she needs some time to decide what direction to take her campaign. What do you think she's doing? What do you think is left for her to decide?

by kydoc2 2008-06-03 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah!

Effectively, this primary was over the night of Indiana/North Carolina. I agree with you, HRC is seriously delusional if she didn't prepare herself for what was 'inevitable'. For her, yesterday was all about stealing the limelight, and jockeying for position.

And this is the person that Obama is supposed to trust?

by xodus1914 2008-06-04 05:06AM | 0 recs
$$$$$$$MONEY MONEY MONEY$$$$$$$


She's fundraising.  That's it.


Calls to donate will resonate so she can soak up ten million in the next two days, after which she'll concede.


It's unfortunate, because I thought highly of her.  She shot herself in the foot tonight.


It is over.  He has the delegates.


by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: $$$$$$$MONEY MONEY MONEY$$$$$$$

That's awfully cynical. I don't think she meant it that way, I think she just weighed her options and decided she wasn't ready to give up her leverage and hand over her support just yet.

by vcalzone 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: $$$$$$$MONEY MONEY MONEY$$$$$$$

She could've gotten more by doing this gracefully.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-03 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: $$$$$$$MONEY MONEY MONEY$$$$$$$

She's asking people to e.mail her website  - then they get linked straight to a donation page.  It's pretty obvious what it's all about.

by interestedbystander 2008-06-04 03:14AM | 0 recs
Re: $$$$$$$MONEY MONEY MONEY$$$$$$$


by hootie4170 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs

   of course. she wants people to continue to tell her how great she is and how she really won the election.


by southernman 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Why do you hate Obama?

You must, because gasoline on fire is not a good idea.

by molly bloom 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Why do you hate Obama?

   I don't hate Obama or Clinton. I'm just exasperated. She's officially LOST. Obama has the delegates. It's ridiculous.
by southernman 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

That's more than a tad hyperbolic, Jerome.  She seems to be leveraging for the VP slot.  It will be interesting - I don't know if this is a great negotiating tactic, but then, if I was an expert on this stuff I wouldn't be here.

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Yeah, I don't know if strong-arming is the way to go here. I hope Obama asks Hillary, but it just seems to me that a strong unity speech would've made that more likely. I mean seriously, doesn't it make it harder for him to ask her to be VP if she tries to force her way in rather than take the approach of "joining the team"?

I'm a HUGE Hillary supporter, but I'm disappointed in her tonight. I hope she reconsiders this approach, because it won't get her on the ticket, or at least somewhere in the administration, and that's where I want to see her.

by HRC 2009 2008-06-03 06:57PM | 0 recs
She's Black Knight from Python & Holy Grail

"All right, we'll call it a draw."

She didn't need to make any decisions last night.  She's the decidee.

by RT 2008-06-04 02:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

As an Obama supporter, I'm *really* disappointed in the tone she's taken so far.  She whipped her audience into a frenzy.  That *does not* help us achieve the goals we all should be fighting for.

Denver?  More trying to sully the nomination because of MI/FL?

This is not a dig at all at Clinton supporters.  I have complete respect for your support of her.  I just think she missed a major opportunity to help the Democratic cause tonight.

by randomscientist 2008-06-03 05:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Why?  Must everything go according an Obama schedule?

(Yes, I know the answer.  Insecurity and vanity makes for control freakdom.)

by killjoy 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Troll rated for the inane insults.  You may be grieving, but deal with it appropriately.

And the reason is simple: because we need a Democrat in the White House.  Now that he's the nominee, everything she does to bring him down hurts that cause.  She's a Democrat and should be acting like one.

by randomscientist 2008-06-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Oh, grow up.  I'm not grieving.  I think he's less of a Democrat than you do, and he acts that way.
by killjoy 2008-06-03 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Less of a Democrat?  His record attests to a more liberal stance than does Clinton's.  Do their records mean nothing?

by chrispy 2008-06-03 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Yeah, that's just crap. Absolute crap. There are reasons to not like Obama (I really had a bone to pick over his abandoning Lamont in the general, but whatever), but you know what? Compared to the alternatives, he's the best we got. As decided by contest.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:25PM | 0 recs
Unity Starts with our Leaders

Tough to unify when certain leaders tell us to stay divided because they haven't decided what to do yet.  But seriously, take your time. (Snark).

by quixote27 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Unity Starts with our Leaders

Caveat - I realize unity in the "we are all democrats we should be civil" sense can start with us.  But still, hard to unify as a party when a leader acts like this.

by quixote27 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

she looks radiant. Excellent speech. Even though I want her to drop out, i instinctively started clapping at "no decisions tonight!"


by Metrobot 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Yes, she looked great.  Ten times better than McCain's.  

Glad to see Vernon Jordan, a great man.

by katmandu1 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I should clarify, I don't begrudge her not dropping out so that she has leverage in discussions, and so she's prepared in case a really ugly skeleton is found in Obama's closest before Denver.  I certainly would have preferred that she drop out, though.

by Oly 2008-06-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread
And Obama just crossed the finish line.
This thing is over folks.
by iowa dem 2008-06-03 05:55PM | 0 recs
If Hillary can win a primary tonite,

after all the negativity 24/7 on TV, with Daschle and McGovern against her in SD, it better be Obama /Clinton if we wanna win.  My opinion, fwiw.

by kosnomore 2008-06-03 05:55PM | 0 recs
The same people saying we need Obama/HRC

were saying that Obama couldn't win a month ago.

We won't be held hostage.

by PantsB 2008-06-03 06:06PM | 0 recs
It ain't me babe
a no no no it ain't me babe.
Months ago, I suggested they agree to a 1:2 ticket and just play it out to see who comes in first.
Of course, that was TR-ed on kos.
by kosnomore 2008-06-03 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Unfortunate, inflammatory speech.

by b1oody8romance7 2008-06-03 05:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

This is why Obama supporters don't like her... no graciousness whatsoever...

by LordMike 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Pot...kettle. n/t

by aggieric 2008-06-03 06:17PM | 0 recs

Make the comparisons in a parallel way. Compare Obama's graciousness with Clinton's, fine. Compare Obama supporters with Clinton supporters, fine. But it's ridiculous to compare some ungracious Obama supporters to Clinton herself and say "Pot...kettle" like that provides an excuse for Clinton's refusal to acknowledge Obama's win tonight.

by kydoc2 2008-06-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: NO

Anyone who thought HRC's speech was what the party needed is just... no.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:28PM | 0 recs
All of the primaries are over..

All of the votes are counted, wheter she agrees with the RBC or not.

What else is left?

by Massadonious 2008-06-03 05:56PM | 0 recs
money money money

It's going to be embarrassing to see just how far in debt the campaign is at the end.

by highgrade 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

That speech was worth it just for the exploding heads in the thread below. I wonder if people can make bigger asses of themselves in this one.

by souvarine 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

FWIW, I've never seen a lot of those names before.  Who knows from whence they came.

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I don't hold it against Obama supporters, its just funny to watch people get their impotent hate on.

I'm interested to hear what Obama has to say.

by souvarine 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Obama's comments about Clinton were great. nt

by kydoc2 2008-06-03 07:25PM | 0 recs
Major props, Jerome.

Time to unite.

by sricki 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Major props, Jerome.

He was being snarky - implying that the people on this blog are capable of winning the election only if we all immediately unify.  Oy.

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Oh... Nevermind. n/t

by sricki 2008-06-03 06:06PM | 0 recs
Man. I hate it when I'm wrong.

I was sure she'd do the classy thing tonight -- Hillary Clinton is such a political animal.

But the race has been so close.  And, as Moe Udall once said "the only cure for Presidential ambition is embalming fluid."

The pill's got to be bitter.  I hope she can find it in herself to swallow soon.

by mijita 2008-06-03 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

"Of course, we've heard it before, but its worth mentioning again that the whole entire election depends upon unity happening right now within this very blog."

Thank you for proving that snark isn't always bad.  LOL.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

What a disgrace.  She's lost the race.  She wants money.  Nothing more.  

by reconad 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

come on people

John Edwards gave a speech stating he was going to go on and then dropped out after he got some more cash

oh, I guess Edwards is a disgrace as well.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

What possible route to the nomination do you see?  She should have graciously congratulated Senator Obama on his victory and stepped the fuck off.

by reconad 2008-06-03 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread


where do read into her speech and what I wrote that she still is in the race?

lord, shakes head at people who don't get it.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Who are all of these people?

by rfahey22 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Edwards didn't endanger the Dem's chance of victory by running out the clock a bit.

Every day HRC stays in is a day that hurts our chances. How can she still consider herself an asset to the Democratic Party?

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I posted this on another thread (2 of them, in fact).

where did she trash him?  

She talked about her strengths.  She didn't trash him.  

the popular vote - well, cnn had it up all night long and she is ahead by their measure.  So, I don't know why that is BS'ing.  CNN has been really good about totals and such, so I am not sure why that wouldn't be something proud to talk about.  

She lost - she is playing up her strengths without dismantling anyone else.  They say she is meeting with Obama tomorrow - she will concede soon.

like I stated before - John Edwards dropped out after he stated he was going on - so he could raise some more $$.  And how long did it take for him to endorse Obama?

Hillary won't take that long

it has been a great primary season - Hillary is correct in that all our states and terrorities, for the FIRST time, got to vote and have it mean something.  Engerized our base - a much stronger position to be in for November.  

This went down to the last day of the primary.  I hope that ALL of our primaries are like this in the fact that all of us vote and have it really mean something.

lesson to be learned here.  

Our base is energerized.  It isn't "weak" or destroyed.  

She fought a great race and lost.  She isn't going to contest it.  Listen (or read) her words.  She knows the endgame here.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I'm sorry, but every day she stays in is a day she robs steam from our nominee. The voting is done... even if she waits one day, it's one day too long.

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

no, not really.  You know that.  Obama is doing a great job tearing down McCain

She isn't out on the campaign anymore.  

give it a rest.  Put yourself in her shoes for a minute - she has fought and stayed in this race and it came down to the last day.  So, allow yourself to understand that.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

C'mon. You pull that "you know that" line way too often.

If she's getting headlines that aren't "Clinton supports Obama" than she's robbing his (and our) steam.

You know that.

And you also know this didn't come down to the last day. Was there ANY outcome from today that would have changed things?

I didn't think so.

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

hello?  Today, the last day, was the day that Obama got the required number of delegates.

that means the last day.

whatever, you want Hillary's head on a stick.  Go for it.

At least I know Obama has more grace than that.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Somehow, the last Day for Edward, Richardson et al came quite some time ago.

And yet Obama still didn't have the req'd # of delegates.

These last weeks have been nothing but Hillary's vanity, or purse.

You know that.

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

did Edwards or Richardson even WIN a state?


no.  They didn't - Hillary got 1/2 of the votes in this primary.

don't make yourself into a sore loser by ignoring the fact that she ran a good race.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread
  1. It's sore winner. Not sore loser.
  2. This was over quite some time ago. Starting about April (if not earlier) Clinton's chances winning depended on a miracle just short of that required by Edwards or Richardson.
  3. She ran a good (i.e. competitive) race, but they both got into waters I wish they'd have avoided.
  4. I want to maximize our chances in November, so I really, really wish she'd step aside.
by PhilFR 2008-06-03 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread


by fahey 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
How Hillary can get on the ticket

IT's really quite simple. The conversation can go as follows:

Barack, I will be on the ticket in November, the American people will have an opportunity for me. It can either be as an independant or as your VP. I await your decision

by Wiseprince 2008-06-03 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: How Hillary can get on the ticket

Engel, is this one of your sock-puppets?

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:30PM | 0 recs
I've been working on a diary

since late March on tips for Obama volunteers in communicating with Democrats who don't like Obama. They are going to need to be gracious to help unite the party.

Looks like I will be posting that piece sometime in the next few days.

by desmoinesdem 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I think that's a disgrace what she did. Really wrong for the party and for Obama. Just ridiculous and it's so ironic that Hillary supporters request unity while insisting on ripping the party apart.

This is the night when we begin the race to win the white house and change the country and wider world. What an arrogant way to ruin it all.

by Graham1979 2008-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Just be cool. The race is effectively over. No need to get pissy. I didn't hear anything out of line tonight.

by vcalzone 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Hmm. (I guess it's better skipping to the part about ) Let's kick McCain in the bum.

Wow, nice McCain speech tonight. Nice diversity in the "crowd," too. Yikes.

by mcd410x 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

It was a disaster. McCain's delivery is atrocious.

by elrod 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
The RNC is lucky the speech got dropped

for Obama's, in that potential (lol) voters weren't exposed to any more of that awful speech.

I want video footage of the chunk of the McCain speech we didn't get to see. I bet it's pure gold.

McCain 08: Boiling water for every baby, and an onion on every belt!

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Hmm (again). The GOPers on TV are certainly excited about tonight's speech in New York. crickets

by mcd410x 2008-06-03 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

pathetic. sick. disgraceful.

by AlyoshaPo 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Does she know of the tape?

Is that why she's hanging around?  (I'm not saying there is one -- maybe she's waiting to see if there is one.)

by katmandu1 2008-06-03 06:00PM | 0 recs
Montana projected for Obama in MT

Fox just called it.

by katmandu1 2008-06-03 06:01PM | 0 recs
Popular vote

If you took all the people who voted for Hillary and put them in room one and all the people who voted for Barack and put them in room two which room would have more people?

Hillary can take it to the convention  if she wishes (Popular vote is not a meaningless argument); Barack will do well not to insult the people in room one

by Wiseprince 2008-06-03 06:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Popular vote

Room two, provided you count the people who chose to vote for him in Michigan but were unable to.

Room one, if and only if you accept that zero people voted for Obama in Michigan.

by jere7my 2008-06-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Montana finishes it!

It's over. The long primary is done. Obama wins Montana - and the nomination.

by elrod 2008-06-03 06:01PM | 0 recs
I can't even comment now.

No mention of the numbers, delegates, etc. Largely still a campaign speech. I can say nothing at all good at this moment. As Jerome predicted, my head is about to explode. Consequently, I'm leaving here for the evening. Seems the only smart thing to do. If I was presumptuous, I could write a certain prominent Clinton supporter's top of the rec list diary for the morning, but I'll let her do it.

by Travis Stark 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
Obamermann' head

is the only head that should explode. Hell, I'll even watch the Obama channel 1 more time to watch it, especially if Tweety joins him!

by Newport News Dem 2008-06-03 06:02PM | 0 recs
Jerome, after that speech

I would find it very difficult for Obama to take her on as VP. The entire election will be clip after clip of his VP candidate saying how terrible Obama is.

That is not a pretty sight.

Hopefully unity can happen, but this is making it very difficult I think.

by MarvinMouse 2008-06-03 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome, after that speech

Oh, I have a feeling Obama had better things to do than to pay attention to her baseless declarations of deserving the VP, and some of this is how she 'repays' him. I'm giving the unity ticket less chance than the Unity ticket. Yeah, that one.

Wait, I'm seeing something... yes...


by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

She had a chance to be gracious and once again she proved she doesn't care about anyone but herself in the end.

by skywaker9 2008-06-03 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

It was an odd, ungracious speech, but who knows what goes through her head?

Let's get this behind us; the primary is over and we need to unite

My respectful tip of the hat to the rational Clinton supporters for good jousting and a tough match

by fightbull 2008-06-03 06:03PM | 0 recs
Yeah, right.

[Lanny Davis] said he's doing it on his own

So. Who's going to launch the "HILLARY FOR SUPREME COURT" petition?

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-03 06:04PM | 0 recs
That was horrible

The woman has no shame.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-03 06:05PM | 0 recs
Shame or sanity? n/t

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

She lost. She lost. She lost.

Any other decent human being would have conceded at this point. But she's a sociopath. Why would we expect anything less.


by Rationalisto 2008-06-03 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

And comments like this are oh so helpful.

by big poppa smurf 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Helpful to those of us trying to ground this blog in reality as opposed to fuzzy feelings and fuzzier math.

HRC has imploded.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:14PM | 0 recs

By solidly winning one of the last two primaries - and one that she was supposed to lose as solidly?

Quick, call Webster's and tell them that we've a new definition for "implode"!

by aggieric 2008-06-03 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Imploded?
Snapshot in time. No one is saying that this wasn't close. But HRC lost 11 straight primaries due to her arrogance in thinking that this would be wrapped up on Super Tuesday.
But you remove FL and MI from the equation, she loses in all categories, including popular vote.
At what point in time does she realize that she got beat and stops trying to call the shots?
by xodus1914 2008-06-04 05:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Okay, even if I think her speech was a bit combative, I'm ready to put the primary behind us and UNIFY. I don't care if Clinton is on the ticket, let's get Barack Obama elected President.

by politicalfan 2008-06-03 06:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I liked the speech.

Especially the fact that she is not conceding tonight.

by Coldblue 2008-06-03 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I really don't know what to think.

by Esjaydee 2008-06-03 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Since the Clinton campaign has stated repeatedly that she wouldn't be conceding tonight I am finding it really curious why everyone (especially the talking heads in the MSM) are acting like this was some big deal. She was gracious in heaping praise on Obama but since she had no plans on conceding it should have been no surprise that she didn't congratulate him on winning the nomination.

It seems like the MSM is so desperate not to lose the Obama vs Clinton story that they are grasping for any snippet to blow up into some sort of controversy.

by big poppa smurf 2008-06-03 06:08PM | 0 recs
Lanny Davis....

Last time Lanny Davis was telling me about politics, he was telling me Joe Lieberman was a great Democrat, a great Senator, and a great American.

by BlueinColorado 2008-06-03 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Obama's introduction described him as "the person we know will be the Democratic nominee..."

Interesting.  Just a little bit of a fudge to be polite.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Quite simply..suicide.
She lost the VP slot right on national TV.  Right now kids...
How did it come to this?
by drlloyd11 2008-06-03 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Quite simply..suicide.

Maybe, maybe not. It's always been said she's the smart Clinton. Maybe she realizes Bubba killed her chances with his self-pitying rant yesterday, so she figured, since she lost, why make an effort?

by BlueinColorado 2008-06-03 06:17PM | 0 recs
My personal suspicion is that she doesn't want

the VP slot.  She just wants (and deserves) the right to turn it down.

by aggieric 2008-06-03 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

The nominee for the Democratic Party is not based on proportional representation. It's a race to win and the winner is the nominee.

by Graham1979 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs
I think she should keep running

...to Denver and beyond.

Next, she should start interviewing Vice Presidentail prospects.

by dell 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I think she should keep running


A three-way race would be awesomely fun to watch.  As political fans, we are already getting one of the coolest elections ever. Let's keep it going.

by KyleJRM 2008-06-03 06:11PM | 0 recs

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Significantly she congratulates Obama on the race he has "run" and not on the race he has "won"....I really don't want to hear chants of "Denver".....

Obama is on now and the crowd is WILD!!!!!

by Tinuviel 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

"The woman has no shame."

How are we supposed to unite with these people? How?

I always wondered how the party of FDR could nominate Dukakis, now I know and I'm very pissed off. Eight long years of Bush, so much destruction and after all this time, we get Obama? This is sick  

by bsavage 2008-06-03 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Don't unite with us then.  We will do our best without you.

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Given the nature of the possessiveness she seems to have of her 'eighteen million votes' it sounds a bit like she wants them in the streets.  Maybe she took her Zimbabwe analogy a bit too seriously.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-06-03 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

The VP thing is a farce.  The public way they are pushing it shows that even more -- she knows Obama can't pick her and so when he doesn't now it will be even harder for Obama to win back her supporters.  And that's the goal, to defeat Obama so she can run in 2012.  I reserved judgment on that one last time to watch her speech, but her speech made me even more sure.

She's making all the bogus things said about the Clintons the last 15 years seem true.  The question is whether we are going to let this one irrepressibly impressive but selfish woman steal victory from the party in November.  That isn't up to her, it is up to us.  It is time for us all to write her off and go to war with the army we have.  It is a pretty good one.

by cat 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Yes, the VP meme is the problem.

Maybe we can blame it on her loose cannon set of advisors, but still, it is entirely unproductive.  It can only set the stage for future grudges, which sadly appears to be Senator Clinton's perspective still.

Having intentionally leaked the "Hillary wants to be VP" idea makes it essentially impossible for Obama to accept her.  I don't know what the point is.  It's surprisingly short-sighted.

by McNasty 2008-06-03 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, the VP meme is the problem.

It isn't short sighted if the goal is to hurt Obama rather than be VP.  Her advisors aren't being loose cannons, they know exactly how to really lobby to be VP and they know exactly that they are doing the opposite.

by cat 2008-06-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

For F*#@s sake, perhaps she would like concede and throw her support behind Obama in joint event with both of them?  Isn't that what Edwards did?  Why would you expect her to go before a crowd of her own volunteers, supporters, and staff and do this?  

by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Because thats what Dean did, thats what Huckabee did, thats what Romney did, thats what primary losers do!

by PantsB 2008-06-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Did they?  I am pretty sure Romney dropped out then held a joint press conference to endorse McCain later.  And what about Edwards?  He endorsed months after dropping out.  Why was she expected to pick a crowd of people who wouldn't appreciate that type of announcement?  Does that even make sense?  No.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

well, those primary losers didn't get half the f'ing votes in the primary, did they?

don't even go there and try to diminish her run.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-03 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

someone needs to tell hillary its over.

ok, i'll do it


its over


by citizendave 2008-06-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread


HEAD EXPLODES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tonight WAS all about Obama.  Clinton should have been drowned out.

She lost.  She's the loser.

Loser, loser, loser.

Not namecalling.  FACT.



Hillary has insulted Obama tragically.

Typical lack of class.


by Reluctantpopstar 2008-06-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Actually, we won. 98% is still an A, though. n/t

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

She wants VP and she is telling Obama if she doesn't get it DENVER! it shall be. He cannot stop her so she will likely get her wish. He simply cannot have Bill and Hillary fighting to the convention and fight the GOP too

by rossinatl 2008-06-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

So it's blackmail?

by drlloyd11 2008-06-03 06:22PM | 0 recs
guaranteed loss

At this point, choosing her is a guaranteed loss.   His supporters will be resentful that she forced herself on the ticket.  Her supporters will only be half-hearted with her in second place.  And a lot of others who really didn't have a horse in the race will throw their hands up and walk away.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Great speech!  I'm so glad she made a point about universal health care.  

by searchforsolidarity 2008-06-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

CNN was especially bloody with esplodin heads.  'Cause once again they got their predictions wrong, and it was all everybody elses fault.

by Scotch 2008-06-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread



by nikkid 2008-06-03 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

There are no more primaries. Why are you giving money to pay Mark Penn's bills... he lost this election for her and you want to help pay him off?

by Tatan 2008-06-03 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Because she is an idiot, a HRC staffer, or both.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

It is kind of hard to argue she should be his VP WHEN SHE WON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HE IS THE NOMINEE.

by Benjaminomeara 2008-06-03 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

It is very simple. If Clinton publicly applies pressure for Obama to name her VP, he MUST name someone else. He cannot be seen as being forced to do things by the loser. It makes him look weak and inexperienced.

If Clinton wants unity, and if she wants a role in an Obama administration, she must quiet down and tell her supporters to quiet down. That way, whatever Obama offers can look like a genuine offer instead of ransom.

by anoregonreader 2008-06-03 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Hillary, stifle yourself, for heaven sake!

You too supporters!

by Scotch 2008-06-03 06:26PM | 0 recs
Quite a perspective


I am supposed to unify with you guys...

who throws the "no shame" bomb at the very first oportunity where she doesn't do exactly what you want.

there is something rotten about this "community" or ours

by TaiChiMaster 2008-06-03 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Quite a perspective

Unify or not... it's your choice come November.

And you reap what you sow.

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Quite a perspective

and so you do

by TaiChiMaster 2008-06-03 06:34PM | 0 recs

I haven't heard such a rejoinder since: "I know you are, but what am I?"

by PhilFR 2008-06-03 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

LOL. I love it. Look what you've done Hillary, you've worked Obama's supporters into a right tizzy! This is such fun. I love it when a minority holds the majority to account. It shows how well democracy is working.

by superetendar 2008-06-03 06:21PM | 0 recs

Temper tantrums below!!!!

(he, he, he-Good job Hillary!)

by Scotch 2008-06-03 06:24PM | 0 recs
Party Stagecraft Opportunity Missed

I have no problem with Hillary having a speech like this which goes over why she thinks she is right for the job.  I dont like many of her arguments as I think they are somewhat divisive and disingenuous, but she is trying to make her case.  Its what all candidates do and each should be given that opportunity.  She will do the right thing.

My problem is, though, I think the party as a whole missed a great convergence unity opportunity tonight in the media (and lets face it the media is a necessary evil).

This night couldnt have ended better from a primary voting perspective - Clinton wins SD and Obama MT - something that shows both are great and both will lead us to the white house and gives both a positive note to end the process on.  But Clinton has lost in the delegates.  And Obama is the nominee.

The best way for the party to have had this go down after that was for Hillary spend the first third of her speech on her, the next third on the party and the final third on Obama and then concede and ask for unity and trash the living bejebus out of McCain.

Then Obama comes on does first third graciousness/thanking, second third on the party/unity and the final third on trashing the living bejebus out of McCain.

This is the last gauranteed night where TV will be wall to wall with coordinated speeches and unfortunately if and when Hillary concedes/suspends now it will not be as 'primetime' as tonight and the message will not be heard as broadly.  Tonight was the night for maximum unity and press narrative for it and the party will suffer a little bit for it in the short term.  But we still have the convention to look forward to on this front, it just would have been nice to see tonight as well.  I think it would have set up the time between now and convention better.

But the sky is not falling.  Hillary did no serious disservice and she is within her rights to make her case.  And so it goes.

by pattonbt 2008-06-03 06:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

I don't get it.  She was supposed to tell a room full of people who would have responded very poorly to that type of announcement that she was conceding and endorsing Obama?  WFE.  When she does that it will be in the proper venue with people in attendance who will be ready to receive the message.   Anything else would be ridiculous.  

People need to chill

by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 06:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

She at least could have given a more broad and less primary-focused speech.

by proseandpromise 2008-06-03 07:38PM | 0 recs
In the words of Fat Albert,

"She's like school in summer."

by McNasty 2008-06-03 06:38PM | 0 recs
actually being there

I can tell you that she was very well received by the crowd.

I saw when terry arrived and he said "we're going to denver" I dont know who he was talking to but he said it loud enough for a few people to hear.

by sepulvedaj3 2008-06-03 06:46PM | 0 recs
You don't invite yourself

This is common courtesy that you learn as a child.   The louder that her supporters yell for this, the less likely it becomes.

This must be Sen. Obama's choice.  If it appears that he chooses ingenuinely, it will only hurt them both.

Look, I understand that things are political, but she should be doing this very quietly.  Don't send out Lanny Davis on the night Obama is going to claim the nomination.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: You don't invite yourself

Hillary has more votes she should at least get to be VP. Isn't this America? I think thats the point Hillary was making, she has 18 million votes even more than Obama- give her some space and CHILL

by rossinatl 2008-06-03 07:09PM | 0 recs

I am sorry, but in America we play by the rules.  Obama won the most delegates, he will be the nominee and HE and HE alone need to make the choice.  He can not be bullied into this by her angry supporters

Her speech tonight was not classy or Presidential, it was graceless and narcissistic.  And her supporters are no better.  Rather than want to start working with other Democrats, they started shouting Denver, Denver.

She had a wonderful chance to unite the party, to talk about how the Democrats working together were going to defeat John McCain, but she didn't.  

This is exactly the reason why so many of us do not support her.

by monkeyga 2008-06-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Now they know how many holes is takes to fill a Dem convention hall.

I'd Love to Turn You Off.

If not Hillary, then McCain.

by LP from MD 2008-06-03 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Man if there was a contest this evening about who had more class, Obama won that hands down. Hillary could have at least thrown some cold water on the Denver chants. Way more combative than I expected from her tonight. Didn't McAuliffe say this morning on Today that if Obama got to the 2118 number Hillary would call him the nominee?

MEanwhile, Obama was very gracious to her, inspiring even. I don't think her speech is going to do her any favors in re getting the VP position, should she indeed want it.

by wasder 2008-06-03 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Email from Hillary's campaign:

Dear Jennifer,

Over the course of this campaign, I have seen the promise of America in your courage and character, your energy and ingenuity, and your compassion and faith.

Your spirit has inspired me every day in this race. While I traveled this country talking about how I wanted to help you -- time and again, you reached out to help me. To grab my hand or grip my arm, to look me in my eyes and tell me, don't quit, keep fighting, stay in this race for us. There were days when I had strength enough for the both of us -- and on the days I didn't, I leaned on you.

This has always been your campaign, and tonight, there's no one I want to hear from more than you. I hope you're as proud as I am of what we've done and that you'll take a moment to share your thoughts with me now at my website.

I want to congratulate Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run. Senator Obama has inspired so many Americans to care about politics and empowered so many more to get involved, and our party and our democracy are stronger and more vibrant as a result.

Whatever path I travel next, I promise I will keep faith with you and everyone I have met across this good and great country. There is no possible way to thank you enough for everything you have done throughout this primary season, and you will always be in my heart.


by JustJennifer 2008-06-03 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Aww how gracious!

I can't believe she didn't remind you of how she really won and everybody still really wants her. I mean ya never know when a Robert Kennedy scenario might rear it's ugly head. Right Hillary?

Just sayin.

She's in it for you, just remember that.


by TimO 2008-06-03 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: MY Head Too
OMG! I just checked in here and you are still playing WWTSBQ??!?
Your months of wallowing unchecked in sneery misogynist hatred is probably going to cost your guy the election.  Serve you right.
by oh puhleeze 2008-06-03 07:22PM | 0 recs
Grrr! Grrr! Jerome angry!!

his head asplode!!

by JJE 2008-06-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Jerome, what did you think of Obama's speech?

by wasder 2008-06-03 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Serious question.

Though I'd have loved to have seen the face he made before he made that post.

I bet it was the same as the one I made when I cracked open my WaPo to see them endorse Maryland's craptastic, GOP ex-Governor in the general.

by notxjack 2008-06-03 07:46PM | 0 recs

Hillary is refusing to acknowledge Obama's victory. No congratulations, no recognition that he has reached the magic number of delegates. Right before his historic victory speech on national TV she basically threw down the gauntlet to the party and the Obama campaign while she continued to stoke resentment among her supporters.

I am surprised. I was wrong about Hillary. I thought she would fight hammer and claw right up until the last minute but then act like a professional with grace and class.

She looks determined to poison the well. Obama can not allow himself to be publicly intimidated into accepting Hillary as a VP. That would make him look fatally weak. She could have twisted arms behind the scenes as she would have been on the short list anyway but after that display on the eve of his victory that is a no go.

It should be an interesting week.

by hankg 2008-06-03 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Can someone tell me why Hillary "needs some time" to think this through? She's been losing for months now and her delegate count barely budged for weeks.

She could have unified the party in one fell swoop of graciousness and integrity, but had to give the knife one more twist.

Oh, that's right, she did it for the voters.

Screw Obama, he wasn't supposed to be around after super Tuesday.

Uppity . . .er . . .upstart!

by TimO 2008-06-03 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Heads Expode Thread

Actually, I think We're all Democrats.I haven't had a single discussion on this issue from anyone.I'd be pleasantly suport  the man who is really democratics.

by anasky123 2008-06-24 11:02PM | 0 recs


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