Does Hillary Want VP?

I continue to be puzzled at the assertions that Hillary Clinton doesn't want to be Vice President, a position regularly advanced by most pundits. Really? She doesn't want to make history by being the first female Vice President? She doesn't want to return to the White House with the ability to perhaps pursue fewer issues on a national level that she's passionate about (healthcare for one) rather than focusing on all issues as a representative of one, albeit large, state? She doesn't want to continue to campaign for national office through November and then run again in 4 years, something she and Bill clearly love and thrive on? And perhaps most stunning of all, people really think she doesn't want to be the nominee apparent in 8 years? I don't know, I could be naive, but I sort of think it's a no-brainer. Then there's the fact that so many of her surrogates have seemed to advance the notion that she should be the VP, or at least should be offered it, Bill Clinton being just the latest.

From Time Magazine:

Her husband, for one, seems to have a pretty clear idea what he thinks she should get as a consolation prize. In Bill Clinton's view, she has earned nothing short of an offer to be Obama's running mate, according to some who are close to the former President. Bill "is pushing real hard for this to happen," says a friend.

Of course, I'm not so clueless that I don't see the downside to the Clintons' taking the number 2 spot. And I certainly see the downside for Obama. But as she racks up more and more delegates and votes and as she continues to dramatically outperform Obama in GE match-ups in the key states of FL, OH and PA, as the new Quinnipiac University polls out today demonstrate -- even after he's essentially become the presumptive nominee -- the more conventional wisdom is going to cement that he needs her, or at least would greatly benefit from having her on the ticket.

Update [2008-5-22 13:25:40 by Todd Beeton]:Hadn't seen Student Guy's diary in which he quotes Al Giordano from The Field asserting that not only does Clinton want VP but she's asked for it and has been denied.

The Field can now confirm, based on multiple sources, something that both campaigns publicly deny: that Senator Clinton has directly told Senator Obama that she wants to be his vice presidential nominee, and that Senator Obama politely but straightforwardly and irrevocably said “no.” Obama is going to pick his own running mate based on his own criteria and vetting process.

I can't vouche for Giordano's credibility but I would buy it. Certainly, Obama's, shall we say, lack of enthusiasm for picking Clinton as his running mate has been made crystal clear by his surrogates in the media. Now that more people are reporting Clinton's interest in the number 2 spot, will the media pick up on it as conventional wisdom and will pressure mount for Obama to pick her?

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, VP (all tags)

Comments

357 Comments

Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

He doesn't need her, and doesn't benefit from having her on the ticket.  She brings with her a boatload of negatives and frankly is displaying very poor moral and ethical standards at the moment.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

While that may be true (not camping on that, just admitting it as a possibility) the rift in the Dem party may be deep enough that he needs to put her on the ticket to pull it all back together.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

VP's do not win tickets for candidates - at best, they don't lose them for the top of the ticket.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I'm talking about solidifying the base here. This is an unusual year in a million different ways, so the conventional wisdom needs to be taken with a certain grain of salt.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

fair point.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

The assumption on these blogs is that all people who voted for one candidate or another are as dedicated as their supporters here.  Hillary not being on the ticket will only be a big deal to a tiny number of people inside the echo chamber.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yes, but as we saw in 2000 and 2004, a tiny number of people make a big difference in a tight race.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

She probably has more who loathe her than who adore her.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yes that's probably why she has 48% of the vote and still wins states even though she can't win anymore.

They all just hate her.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

 you can ignore whatever you want.  It's your bubble.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yeah, what bubble? I'm not even a Clinton supporter

Biden first and now Obama.

Hearing you talk and seeing the actual numbers out there I think I've got a better grasp on reality.

But if being disagreeable works for you, just go on and continue to insult your fellow democrat. I'll be working to undue your shit so we can still win and enjoy president Obama.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Funny, for me it was Gore first, then Dodd, then Obama.  

48% is a fine number until you realize that that's 48% of people who voted in the Democratic Primary. Whoops! There happens to be a broader election in November, and last poll I checked, she consistently polls under Obama vs. McCain, and back in November, there was that 50% "who would never vote for Clinton".

As for insulting Hillary, where? If you're bored enough, go through my posts and comments.  I don't think I've called her any names.  My complaint is with her shitty Iraq vote and her trashy campaign, but I have never called her any names.  

by mikeinsf 2008-05-23 02:01AM | 0 recs
Wouldn't Make A Difference

Hillary would not win any states for Obama and wouldn't overcome his greatest weakness; lack of experience in defense and foreign affairs.
As you can see from todays 'Q' polls for PA, OH, and Florida, Obama is in deep do do. The New York Times article on Florida Jewish voters being against him further backs up this problem.
If the election is held today - McCain wins.
There is some fantasy thinking going on that says once Obama gets the nomination the party will unite and Obama will take a huge lead in the polls. He will get a spike in the popular vote, but it won't change the solid south (he's UP 8pts in Virginia today), plus Florida, all the border states, plains states, mountain states (not including Colorado) (total of 240EV's) which has it coming down to Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan.  McCain needs just one state to win and Obama needs all three.  
Obama needs a VP that will make a difference. My two choices that will rock the world:

1. Mike Bloomberg
2. Sam Nunn

He names either and he wins the Presidency

by minnehot1 2008-05-22 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Wouldn't Make A Difference

Sam Nunn? ... LOL!!  That excites no one.  The average Joe doesn't give a damn about Sam Nunn.  Michael Bloomberg?  Why, just because he solves the "Florida problen"?  If he has a problem with Florida in that regard, he can pick Feingold.

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2008-05-22 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Many people voting for Hillary in these states are also voting against Obama, and they will continue to do so even if she is on the ticket.  It's difficult to say how much additional net support she would bring to his candidacy.

by catalysis 2008-05-22 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

you're quite wrong, we'd be for her whoever her rival for the job was.  We didn't start out complaining about his style of campaigning, against her character, and with name-calling, we grew to dislike him, over time.  He's trying to make it up, although he hasn't figured out quite how. Certainly dismissing any possibility of selecting her for vice president would harm his efforts. If he's sincere he'll put the nation above his personal ambition.    

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If you were sincere, you would put the nation above your personal ambitions to see her elected.

If Hillary were sincere, she would put the nation above her personal ambition.

See how this works?

by Lawyerish 2008-05-22 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

yes, before she won texas she said she was proud to have him as her opponent and she made it more than clear that to unite the party, she'll campaign for him if he's the nom and invite him on her ticket if she's the nom. He has an advantage, in that Hillary has left no doubt that she puts the nation above her own pride, she's like the real mother in the King Solomon story.  She's run her campaign like that, and that's one big reason her momentum goes up up up.  He hasn't shown this, and I'm hoping it's tactical, that he didn't want to give anyone the excuse that a vote for her would be a vote for both, and that admitting he'd like her on the ticket might make him lose his own supporters, the one's that base their desire for him at least partly on their visceral dislike of her.  This race going on does nothing but benefit Barack, if he's to be the nom.  Of course if it leads to her winning, that won't be to his personal benefit, but if he wins and he's fought it all the way to Denver, he'll be a far stronger candidate.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Oh, this is new.  Anna Shane is showing a deep desireto strengthen Barack.  Do tell.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-23 02:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

She's responsible for the rift in the party by staying in the race, by floating the bs argument about popular vote (she said it'd be over by super Tuesday, so she doesn't really care about counting every vote), and undermining Obama's legitimate chances of winning in the GE.

She tried to offer Obama the VP slot when she was running in 2nd place, she has completely lost it thinking she's entitled to VP now, after all her shenanigans.

by obscurant 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yes, and politics makes strange bedfellows.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yeah, she's acting as if she thinks she is the preferred choice of almost half the party or something.

She has completely lost it.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Second place finishers are generally not given the VP slot.  It's happened less than a third of the time, going back to 1972.

by obscurant 2008-05-22 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Seeing that the VP slot usually has a dozen contenders or so I'd say that's actually pretty reasonable rate.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I know Hillary Clinton had the <gasp> audacity to not just shut up & get out of the way - God forbid she attempt to obtain a nomination that initially the party appeared to support.  What a horrible person@@

In case you can't tell I am really sick of the meme that blames Hillary Clinton for the rift in the party.  In case you haven't noticed some people don't find Obama to be as likeable as others. And that is irrelevant of Hillary Clinton (ftr in the beginning of the primary my first choice for nomination was NOT Clinton, however Obama was NEVER a choice of mine).

by jrsygrl 2008-05-22 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

In case you can't tell I am really sick of the meme that blames Hillary Clinton for the rift in the party.

I guess we could blame the frontrunner, but that doesn't make much sense to me, and it isn't productive in terms of November.

God forbid she attempt to obtain a nomination that initially the party appeared to support.

And if she were the frontrunner, the tables would be reversed and she'd have the support of the majority of the party.  She still has significant support, but her chances to win the nomination mean overthrowing the nomination process in terms of pledged delegates.  Her argument for FL/MI is an even more pointed argument against her nomination.

by obscurant 2008-05-22 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I guess that certainly explains why she's only a handful of votes and delegates short of winning the dem nomination huh!

She has so much baggage that she's won ALL of the big states necessary for any Dem to win in November (except WI and IL).

She has so much baggage that but for the SD, neither of the candidates would have enough delegates to get the nomination.

Yeah...keep pushing that Obama meme and see how far that takes you...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

All the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue whether you guys want to vote for him or not.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

First...never ass-u-me that I will be voting Republican DESPITE my support for Hillary...

2nd...Do you REALLY belive that Obama can win in the GE without a majority of Hillary supporters?

And they call her delusional...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This group here, taylor marsh's swamp, and hillaryis44 does not a majority make.  Don't speak for all the supporters out there based on your feelings.   Additionally, it's a long time until November and that's plenty of time for people to get onboard.  Just think, 6-7 months ago, everyone was always saying how happy they would be with either nominee, now look at it.  I'm not saying there won't be fence mending, but if you expect utter ass kissing by his part towards Hillary supporters, wake up, that ain't happening.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

do you not read exit polls?  HRC's supporters in shocking numbers are saying this.  unless the crew you describe is running to each polling station to skew the results of who they would vote for, you are sorely mistaken.

by canadian gal 2008-05-22 12:32PM | 0 recs
It'll take us pretty far

The White House, probably.

I don't mean to be rude, but Clinton is more than a "handful" shy of the nomination.  She literally can't get the pledged delegate lead even if she got every remaining pledge, and the supers have either made their choice, or will shortly make their choice for Obama.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

It's a pretty big 'handful.'  She's four times as far away from winning as he is.

He will win every 'big state' that she won, with maybe the exception of OH.  Can you name the big state that she won that he won't win, other then that?

If it wasn't for SD's, Obama would already have won, as he has more then half of the available delegates.

I will keep pushing that Obama meme, and it's going to take us to the convention and eventually the WH.  You can be on board or not as you wish.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-22 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

He's NOT winning PA without her...guarenteed.

And NJ is also up in the air...again, without her support.  

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Bull crap.  On both counts.  You simply don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Obama beats McCain HANDILY in both places without her.  Where are you pulling this crap from?  You guys are living in some sort of fantasy world, where Hillary is the end-all be-all of politicians and everything revolves around whether she's there or not.  It's maddening to even have to discuss.

by Lawyerish 2008-05-22 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

They figure that no one will bother to go to pollster and pull the data to refute them...they are spinning to lazy voters.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Of course....polls have NEVER been wrong before, correct?  So you're 100% right...and I stand corrected...after all...you have POLLS backing you up....

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I've never understood arguments which claim that Data is not useful to understanding a situation.

We certainly cannot tell if your assertion is true or not based upon its' inherent merits; so what is one to do, but to look for data to back their argument up?

Upon what do you base your prediction that Obama will not win two traditionally blue states, both of which are currently polling in his favor - and have been for several months?

by Lawyerish 2008-05-22 11:21AM | 0 recs
You need to calm down

I have made a decision to try to behave a little better around here.  Maybe you can try to do the same.

Think about how long you would last on ANY job if you talked to people (and about people) like you do on virtually every post of yours I read.  I realize one has the freedom like nowhere else to release inner demons on web sites but one also has the discretions to suppress them once in awhile.

by lombard 2008-05-22 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: You need to calm down

Ok....I will try not to be so sarcastic...but you should call out Obama supporters as well, when you see them doing this.  

And just for the record, I don't consider any of my posts "mean" or and I don't call any specific individuals out...but I do agree that I can sarcastic, which can come across as mean spirited.

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 11:03AM | 0 recs
The comment wasn't to you

by lombard 2008-05-22 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: You need to calm down

Umm I own my own company, and have close to a dozen employees.  If any of them tried to lie and spin the truth the way that I see some supporters doing, I would fire them in a NY minute.  People on this site need to stop trying to spin the facts.

BTW, I thank you for your newly discovered moderation, but since you are pretty much considered the Prince of Flame Wars, I don't think your critique carries much weight IMHO.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 11:46AM | 0 recs
Nice attitude

"You may have a problem, but I don't.  And since I'm not anybody's employee I don't have to be nice.  And by the way, since you're also guilty, f**k you."

I may have issues, but at least I can see them once in awhile.

by lombard 2008-05-22 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice attitude

That's not it at all.  SHOCKINGLY, you completely missed the point, although your paraphrasing was pretty cute.  The only people I tend to take issue with are disingenuous douchebags.  But hey, let me know where to send the thank you card to your shrink for helping you with your journey of self discovery.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Personality cult.  Projection.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-23 02:05AM | 0 recs
Umm

I can't name a big state he has won - I mean besides Illinois...so huh?

by emmasaint 2008-05-22 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Umm

He leads Clinton in CA polls - is that big enough for you?

by interestedbystander 2008-05-22 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Ummm  there is much conventional wisdom that Obama will NOT win all the states that Clinton could. Hence the issue re: electability in the GENERAL ELECTION (not the primary)

by jrsygrl 2008-05-22 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Are we back to the "big states not named Illinois" metric again?

by lilnev 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
ok, we'll keep pushing our meme

so long as you keep pretending that "winning the big states" in the primaries has ANYTHING at ALL to do with the general election.

You or I would win California, New York etc. as long as we were running against mcSame.

by jedley 2008-05-22 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

"a handful of votes and delegates "

A handful?

Your hands must be awfully big then. She's almost two hundreds delegates behind. To put this number into context: She would have needed about 15 more victories, each one the size of West Virginia in order to have covered come close to Obama's lead.

This wasn't a close contest in the end. Merely a closer one that in other years.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-22 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Only the closest national campaign for the nomination ever.

Nothing special.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

A Thousand times no, never, under any circumstances. She is a disaster for a joint ticket. See today's twisting of Michigan as a small example.

by telfishbackagain 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I think you may be missing a few NO's.

A few more and maybe it will REALLY happen...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

In that same vein, only a few more millions in personal loans to a dying campaign and I'm sure she will win.  That plus a handful of unicorn kisses and fairy dust.  Oh, and a time machine, and a rule book about how delegates are allocated and how caucuses work.  Oh, and making sure Mark Penn's parents don't meet, ala Back to the Future.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 09:19AM | 0 recs
Is it time to start quoting Mr. King?

That's Rodney can't-we-all-just-get-along King...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Frankly, the only reason he would possibly need her is because there are just so many unreasonable HRC dead enders that would try to sink our ship out of spite.

Personally, if their internal numbers show that we (Democrats) can replace her "followers" with new voters and increased AA turnout, then I would rather he take a VP that doesn't have her negatives.

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I hope that's not a talking point.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

It's not.

It's an observation.

Can you think of another reason he would really need HER in particular that another Gov or Senator or whatever couldn't fill?

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

you're joking, right? More than half of us have already voted for her and while we may accept him if we view his possible nom as legitimately won, we'd be enthusiastic if he could get along with her and job share.   If she's no where on the ticket, the DNC gets no more dimes from me.  I'm not a chump, if they don't care about me I'm not going to pay them for that privilege.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Firstly, more than half of "us" have not voted for her. Unless you are only counting certain states, and giving Obama a 0 in MI, which is at best, dishonest.

Secondly, you are deluding yourself a bit. Even if she ended up as the VP, there would be no "Job Share". She would have a well-defined SECONDARY role as VP, and that would be to execute the will of the President, and occasionally cast tie breakers in the Senate (which hopefully won't be an issue).

Thirdly, Part of your opposition to an Obama presidency is likely because you are a Hillary supporter first and a Democrat second.

There is a possibility that Clinton brings less to the table than other VP candidates, and that the way to insure that the downticket races are not negatively effected by a Clinton on the ballot (energizing the right) is to have a Non-Hillary VP Choice.

Personally, I don't believe that she is so incredibly exceptional that she needs to be on the ticket for it to be a winner. I don't believe that about Obama  either, I might add, if somehow Clinton manages to get the nomination.

Sure, there is a chance that if Clinton somehow gets the Nomination that AAs would just sit home for a generation, but I like to think that we would look for the greater good and vote Clinton on the issues anyways.

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

so, what's your point?  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Can you really ask that?

I believe my points are fairly well laid out there. Do you disagree? Are you even interested in having this discussion that has an opposing view?

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

All right. So lets go over this again:

I believe that Hillary is not necessarily the best choice for VP. If it turns out that she in fact is not the best, for logical reasons, then Obama should  not take her.

I also hold the opposite to be true. Do you disagree? Do you think that the only way you would support the Democratic Nominee is if HRC is on the Ballot in some way, regardless of any repercussions?

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I want a winning ticket. If I were in charge I'd say to them both, announce publicly that if you're the nom you'd invite the other one, and it would not be ceremonial.  Barack is smarter than some think, he may take a chance and seat Florida and Michigan and expect the super's to take his gesture into consideration, he'd still be ahead in pledged delegates, and if he won it would be seen as legitimate.  He may also realize that the best way to show respect to her supporters is to announce she'd be invited onto his ticket.  She'd do the same and we could all blog together.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I want a winning ticket, which is why I don't think that Hillary should be an automatic invite.

His best move would be to choose the BEST VP Candidate and get Hillary behind it even if it isn't her. Maybe work out something where he can make her a Supreme Court Justice or the Senate Majority Leader or something.

In my opinion, no matter what happens there HAS to be a penalty for Florida and Michigan in order for the DNC to not set a horrible precident.

I expect that they just seat them at half, giving Obama all the uncommitted in MI.

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I'm not into punishing voters, i'm into giving them what they want, in this case a unity ticket with two grownups who ought to be able to get along.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Regardless of what SOME voters may want, it's possible that Obama can make a stronger ticket without her.

Also, she has been pretty nasty on the campaign trail (Commander in Chief threshold) and I think she made her bed and needs to lay in it now.

Had she not gone with the "kitchen sink strategy" and ran a more positive campaign, as the Obama camp has for the most part then it would be a possiblity.

by Darknesse 2008-05-23 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Tr'ed? Really? for that?

Absurd.

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

McCain would take her. They would help each other.

by kitebro 2008-05-22 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I've been wondering if he would have the good sense to ask her...McCain, I mean...I know the other one doesn't.

by not buying it 2008-05-22 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

He might. He's a pinhead.

by kitebro 2008-05-22 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Uprated, TR abuse.

by fogiv 2008-05-22 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

She is going to be on the ticket one way or the other .

Thats my opinion.

by lori 2008-05-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

She's not going to publically FORCE her way on the ticket.  She will lobby behind the scenes and honestly, if the GE polls in Ohio and FL don't pull up (although they are very close for Obama, just not as good as Clinton) then there will be a LOT of pressure there.  I'm torn... on the one hand, I think the ticket is a LANDSLIDE victory... on the other hand, there is a LOT of baggage with Clinton... and that doesn't mean in terms of general election but in terms of bad blood from the nom fight, the Clinton people (meaning the advisors... many of whom are not the... best... of people although to be fair ALL political teams have that element), the fact you have 2 very dominant personalities and can she take a backseat to Obama, something she will HAVE to do (and frankly to me THAT may be the big unsaid reason).

I think he HAS to vet her for the position... given some of the other names tossed around such as Bayh or Strickland, HRC is a million times better (especially than Bayh whose selection would REALLY piss me off.)  

The other issue is to say.. yes she deserves it, but then would she have offered it to Obama if things were reversed.  I don't think she would and I think BOTH of them know that Bayh ( even the NAME makes me vomit in my mouth a little) was the Clinton VP.

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-22 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This late in the cycle she wouldn't have had a choice.

I'm not even sure Obama has now.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I am skeptical of that. I think the DLC is actually seeing what can be done to stand in the way of that.  Truthfully I think they had a big hand in propping Obama for their own personal issues with Clinton.

by jrsygrl 2008-05-22 02:01PM | 0 recs
She has not DRAMATICALLY

racked more and more delegates. I am really tired of that meme. And no she does nto have more popular vote.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Pop vote for Clinton

From Realclearpolitics Hillary does have the popular vote lead.

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI) and Estimates w/IA, NV, ME, WA*    

Obama 17,586,644 47.6%
Clinto 17,644,785 47.7%    

Clinton +58,141 +0.15%

by wasanyonehurt 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

FL & MI do not count as of today...sorry, try again.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Anything that includes MI is just not a valid measurement.

by wasder 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Sounds like typical Obama talking points...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

yeah evil little things called facts and simple math...sheesh

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
Typical Obama FACTS.

Facts are facts and you are only fooling the fools by calling it spin

by eddieb 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

why?

I mean, it wasn't as if Hillary took Obama's name off the ballot - he did so himself.  And his surrogates in MI campaigned to state if you want Obama, vote uncommitted.

Obama took his name off to sway Iowa.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-22 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

REgardless of why somebody's name was not on the ballot, trying to count these votes as if they are as valid as a vote where the candidates were on the ballot is absurd.

by wasder 2008-05-22 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Well, if uncommitted was given to Obama it would make counting MI more reasonable. But I haven't seen the Clinton campaign signing on for this solution. That would give her a sizable but not overwhelming popular and delegate win in MI. Nothing big enough to change the course of the nomination though.

by wasder 2008-05-22 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Oh, so no one voted for Edwards or Biden?

nope, Obama played Michigan - even refused to send in the legal work so that a write in for him would be counted in his favor.

He had his surrogates gaming the system prior to the primary.

He gambled with MI to win Iowa.   I don't think he should get all of the uncommitted.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-22 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

How is it possible that he "played" Michigan when Hillary supporters dominate the committee that stripped their delegates in the first place?

by Jess81 2008-05-22 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

According to the exit polls not that many no.

There are 6 or so uncommitted delegate seats that were snagged up by the unions. outside those the rest should go to him.

Not that it really matters as he stills wins either way.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Why?  Because the only reason to talk about the popular vote is to make a moral argument about the "will of the electorate".  That argument loses all moral force if it's based on a number that clearly doesn't represent the will of the electorate.  You can either toss out MI completely on the grounds that we have no meaningful information about the will of the electorate, or you can use an estimate based on exit polling (the "who would you have voted for if these names had been on the ballot" question).  The latter is imperfect, but at least intellectually honest.  Claiming that the will of the electorate as expressed by the popular vote is a moral mandate, and then claiming that exactly zero people in MI wanted to vote for Obama, is not.

by lilnev 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

If you don't care about the will of the people, and whether it is accurately represented by the claim "0 votes for Obama" in Michigan, then what the hell are you doing talking about the popular vote anyway?

But ofcourse it's not about the will of the people, nor about the rules either -- it's neither about democracy, nor about the rule of law. It's merely about the Clintons being sore losers.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-22 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

You people are HILARIOUS!! You ACTUALLY BELIEVE that this shit is valid. Incredible.

by jedley 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

Only if you DO NOT extrapolate Obama's MI support based on exit polling... which means you are disenfranchising the Michigan voters (see that argument can be used AGAINST HER as well).

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-22 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Pop vote for Clinton

The popular vote is about who the voters want. and you just forgot the several hundred thousand voters that were for Obama in MI.

Obama has just as big a lock on the popular vote as he has on the pledged delegates.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:52AM | 0 recs
Does this mean that Bill knows

that Hillary has already lost?

by missliberties 2008-05-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Does this mean that Bill knows
Of course he knows she lost! The man has an IQ of 190 or something. He's a brilliant politician.
Which is of course the point.
The only reason Hillary still around is because the Clintons have decided to turbo up their experience and their formidable Machiavellian wiles to manipulate a straightforward delegate contest into being perceived as something else.
Because in the end, it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is...
by jedley 2008-05-22 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Does this mean that Bill knows

Bill Clinton DOES NOT have an IQ of 190.  He is a good politician and a smart man... BUT NOT Freaky Genius, 12 year old College Grad smart.

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-22 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Does this mean that Bill knows

Neh, he's just your good old regular genius... ;)

by Ernst 2008-05-22 10:58AM | 0 recs
How could he believe otherwise?

The man is very reality based.  He may believe there is a glimmer of hope but can't believe there is any significant likelihood.

by lombard 2008-05-22 10:46AM | 0 recs
Will they allow themselves to

go through the VP vetting process? Somehow I doubt it.

If May polling was predictive Kerry would be President right now.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:30AM | 0 recs
Cherry picking swing states

1) There are many swing states where Obama outperforms Clinton, including a new SurveyUSA poll showing him up 7 over McCain in Virginia.

2) If he wants to shore up support in Ohio or wherever, there are probably better choices than Hillary Clinton.

by fwiffo3 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Cherry picking swing states

A few weeks ago, I would have said Sebelus... Now I'm thinking Webb has the inside track...

My top 3 guess (not my preferences)

Webb
Strickland
Sebelius

by yitbos96bb 2008-05-22 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Cherry picking swing states

I think people are way overrating the Webb VP pick. He barely won Virginia, and it was by running up the vote in NOVA where Obama is already really strong. It might add a slight nudge to Obama's VA prospects at most.

To add to your list, I still think Ed Rendell is a  good pick.

by fwiffo3 2008-05-22 11:05AM | 0 recs
What about the Virginia poll out today, Todd?
It shows Obama beating McCain 49 - 42? LINK!
by DailyKingFish 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I for one don't think Obama has a choice but to pick her.

There is no serrogate on this planet that can take her place; Not Byah (a terrible choice for anyone) or Ted Strickland, or Ed Randell.  No one.  Just because they are NOT her.

If I were Obama, I would BEG and PLEAD Hillary to take the VP spot, and prey that she accepts.

That's the only way to unify this party, and a sure way to win the GE.

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Would Bill and Hill allow themselves to be vetted by the Obama campaign?

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:34AM | 0 recs
if Obama even considers Hillary as veep
he would become the greatest 'appeaser' of all time.
Hillary has been deceitful and duplicitous and disloyal throughout the campaign, and Obama can't politically afford to be seen as rewarding the very behavior he denounces, nor would he himself ever be able to swallow it morally.
They're two entirely different species. Electoral strategy can't erase that. Sure, Hillary's a very capable politician, but Obama needs a veep who is both capable and honest.
by jedley 2008-05-22 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

Hillary has been deceitful and duplicitous and disloyal throughout the campaign

Only if you happen to be a hard core Obama supporter...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

Of the 50%+ of the country that view her in a negative way...bang up job of winning hearts and minds.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

Obama needs a veep who is both capable and honest

April 2008:  I can no more disown Rev Wright than I can the black community or my white grandmother...

May 2008:  I am disowning Rev. What's-his-Face...

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

What could that possibly have to do with dishonesty?
Wright got Obama in trouble for having more extreme views, and Obama refused to disown him, just as I would never disown my gay friends or Republican friends just because they're different from me.
Then Wright shows his gratitude by dancing like a showgirl in front of the cameras, totally betraying the man who'd had the courage to remain his friend, despite how much was at stake.
After which Obama rightly had to say goodbye.

Who raised you? A pack of coyotes? Where's your humanity?

by jedley 2008-05-22 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

Well, sinec I am a Hillary supporter, so by definition I was raised by pack of cayotes, correct?

by Nighttrain 2008-05-22 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

your spelling would suggest as much, anyway

by jedley 2008-05-22 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: if Obama even considers Hillary as veep

IF that is true that he needs a VP that is trustworthy and honest (which he does not show a particular weakness in, as he MASSIVELY outpolls Clinton in that regard) then taking Clinton is a terrible idea.

Clinton is viewed as "honest and trustworthy" by just 40% or so of the voters)

by Darknesse 2008-05-22 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Lets see now the wingnuts have already made it clear they want Hillary on the ticket, one way or another. She is their "Great white hope" to ignite and unite the repuglicans party. This is one fact Hillary doesn't want anyone to notice. There are plenty of wonderful Dems availible for Obama to choose from and I'm willing abide by his decision.

by eddieb 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Man, some of you are sooooooo smitten.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?
Al Giordano, this morning:
The Field can now confirm, based on multiple sources, something that both campaigns publicly deny: that Senator Clinton has directly told Senator Obama that she wants to be his vice presidential nominee, and that Senator Obama politely but straightforwardly and irrevocably said "no." Obama is going to pick his own running mate based on his own criteria and vetting process.

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=1248
by Pat Flatley 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
BREAKING! Gore to endorse Obama!

You may be unfamiliar with Al Giordano's record. His sources are often and repeatedly wrong.

by souvarine 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Examples please

He got the Kerry endorsement right with his sources and the Kennedy one too.

by Student Guy 2008-05-22 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: BREAKING! Gore to endorse Obama!

Giordano said that Gore was favoring Obama:

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=443

This is still accurate.  If Gore does endorse, it will be soon after the MI/FL ruling in order to stomp on that ridiculous nonsense.  It's all about the strategery (Edwards the day after WV, etc.).

by Pat Flatley 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Nice to meet you, too!

Would you care to site the cases in which my sources have supposedly been "often and repeatedly wrong?"

I'll send you a dollar for every single one you can cite.

I've published corrections infrequently when I have been in error, but I can't recall one - at least during my coverage of this campaign - when a source that I cited was wrong.

But I nonetheless welcome you to document your claim!

best,

Al Giordano

by The Field 2008-05-22 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Nice to meet you, too!

Oh come on, how many times have you posted that Gore was about to endorse?

by souvarine 2008-05-22 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Nice to meet you, too!

I've reported that Gore favors Obama. I've reported at various points since then that people shouldn't expect him to endorse yet, and explained the reasons why. And in any case, by the time the convention rolls around, you will see Gore casting his vote for Obama. Do you really doubt that?

Admit it: Wanting to blame (or discredit) the messenger seems to be more important to some folks around here than the substance of the matters at hand.

Comments very similar to yours were directed at me after I reported that John Kerry was going to endorse Obama. A few days later, he did. The same when I reported that Ted Kennedy would endorse Obama. The same when I reported that Bill Richardson would endorse.

I've been reporting politics since the 1980s. I wouldn't publish anything that I have not confirmed. You may not like the information or the consequences of it, but you're being silly to try and distort the record of the journalist.

In any case, my offer still stands: The Field's archives are there for you to review and link. I'll give you a dollar for every instance you can find - according to your claim - in which my "sources were wrong." So far, you've come up empty. If you were an honest person, it would be you issuing the correction right now.

by The Field 2008-05-22 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If that is true, OUCH.  If it isn't true, that guy should be eviscerated by the Obama campaign.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
frack yeah

Obama sprayed some Dixiecrat-be-gone on her. After the crap she pulled she deserves to her place next to Bull Connor.

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: frack yeah

Ludicrous.

by Mayor McCheese 2008-05-22 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: frack yeah

You must have "worked hard" to write that

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: frack yeah

I give it the response it deserved, if it deserved that much.

by Mayor McCheese 2008-05-22 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: frack yeah

Because you are a "hard working" kind of guy

by TMP 2008-05-22 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: frack yeah

do you have a point here?

by Mayor McCheese 2008-05-22 10:07AM | 0 recs
How quick people forget

What the landscape was like before Bush and his puppet master.

The VP role played by Dick Cheney simply isn't the norm... in fact, it's safe to say it's unique in our nation's history.  Even LBJ didn't exert the type of influence Cheney has.

Once the current duo departs - the VP is going to return to the state it had when occupied by Gore, Quayle, Bush I, Mondale, etc.

If Clinton wants that role, fine by me.

But let's not pretend she's going to have the freedom to pursue a separate agenda.

She could certainly pursue such issues - and even lead on them - when they jibe with the administration's policy... but she cannot be creating a separate center of power at odds with the administration.

This has nothing to do with Hillary's gender -- it simply has everything to do with the proper role of the Vice President.

by zonk 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

uhmmmm, Gore actually played a bigger part as VP than another VP before him.

Clinton gave Gore a lot more power than ever before.  I hate it when people dismiss Gore's role in the Clinton presidency, because it was ground-breaking.

Cheney ain't a veep, he is the shadow president

by colebiancardi 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

With all due respect...

What initiative, what policy was Gore the driving force behind?

More importantly - what policy or issue did Gore split with Clinton on?

The second point is quite key - like it or not, there are some policies (gas tax for instance) that Clinton is going to have to mea culpa/flip-flop on.

You cannot have a ticket with two different platforms.

by zonk 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

good points. I'd rate this if I could.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

Wow zonl! You have no idea what you are talking about. LBJ had ZERO influence in JFK's administration and Gore had considerable influence in the Clinton administration. If Obama is smart, he will ask Hillary to run with him. I would be more inclined to vote for him in that instance. If he goes into his condescending routine, it will only hurt his chances of getting elected.

by northstars 2008-05-22 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

The irony of you talking about "condescending" is deep.

I'll ask the same question I asked above.

What policy did the Clinton administration enact that Gore led?

What area of domestic or foreign policy did Al Gore play the starring role?

Help me to better know what I'm talking about.

by zonk 2008-05-22 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

Reinventing government, which happens to be Barack Obama's single distinguishing domestic policy proposal.

by souvarine 2008-05-22 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

OK - great.

The NPR was a very good program.

But my point still stands - it was a policy initiative that came from the President, who then asked Al Gore to lead it.

I'm not of a mind that the VP should be relegated strictly to attending funerals - I'm saying the VP takes the queue from the President.

Lemme put it in different terms.

I don't personally think Hillary Clinton was all that opposed to NAFTA until it became politically expedient (that doesn't mean I think she favored it, I'm just saying she was neither a champion nor opponent)... but let's say for the sake of argument she was adamantly opposed.

We certainly did NOT here of her opposition during its inception.   In fact, there are numerous instances where she publicly supported the administration's position.  

Can she do the same as Obama's VP?

Will she publicly hold her fire - and even privately, make sure any fire stays quiet - when it's necessary?

Let's say she's Veep - and let's say Obama tabs her to lead the push for healthcare legislation.  Will she be willing to tow the administration line on policy?

THAT's my concern.  I'm not saying that Obama would not (nor should he not) consult with Hillary on any policy matters.   I'm just saying that our government has a clear chief executive - and even within the administration, that executive calls the shots.

Is Hillary Clinton willing to accept that role?

If so - NOW is the time where she needs to start demonstrating it.

by zonk 2008-05-22 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

The irony is deep. Are you in homerrom right now?

by northstars 2008-05-22 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

Ummm.

No.

You'd know if I were because it coincides with your nap time.

by zonk 2008-05-22 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

You're very funny, but your political ignorance is nothing to laugh at.

by northstars 2008-05-22 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: How quick people forget

Ummm... thanks?

Hopefully, northstars' class on political history will arrive at my local learning annex soon so I can start working on my person commenting on a blog credentials -- then we can discuss issues as equals!

by zonk 2008-05-22 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

By the way, can we get links to those EV maps here?

by MNPundit 2008-05-22 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

The reason people think she doesn't want he VP spot is because the male pundits and his supporters exude a whiff that Obama is too special to be brought down by the likes of Hillary.

Yet they fail to see how poorly he is polling in swing states and are all but happy to concede Florida (kos!) for the sake of purity.

And then they expect her supporters to be good little Democrats and roll up their sleeves for Obama who won by the thinnest of margins and a screwed up primary system.

Good luck with that!

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

So you mean her supporters are so petty that they'd hurt America because their candidate didn't win?

Also, you think Bill & Hillary will allow themselves to be fully vetted by the Obama camp?

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Fully vetted?

How vetted is he?

Give me a break.

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 08:38AM | 0 recs
Very

People have been digging in his past for six months straight, if not more.

The guy wouldn't have run for president if he had skeletons in his closet.  He wouldn't put his family through that.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Very

And tehy have been digging in her for 16 years.

Who wins?

Please...

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 08:57AM | 0 recs
Not sure what you're implying

The Clintons are habitual wheelers & dealers who have had large amounts of power for upwards of 30 years.  Obama is a boy scout known to be a straight shooter.

Not every person in politics is corrupt.  The fact that you haven't found anything dirty on him doesn't necessarally mean that it's just hidden really well.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Very

Yes but since she's not the nominee they haven't used it against her. How many times have you heard about Belinda Stronach? How many times did the GOP bring up their foreign financiers?

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Very

there is so much more on her. She will not being running against Obama. Tuzla was mild compared to the volume of other whoppers she told. The big whopper about her 35 years of experience beginning with her intersnships and coat tailing is a veritable pinata of trustworthy negatives.

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

That's non-responsive. There are no surprises allowed so Bill will have to explain things like his foreign donors and Belinda Stronach and Hillary will have to explain her activities at the law firm headed by Communist Party members.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

And if you think there are no more Obama surprises or new stories that they will add to the narrative, you are naive!

RNC Hiring Rove Protege To Dig Oppo Research On Obama

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/republican_national_comm ittee.php

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Again. That's non-responsive. He's the nominee. Even Bill knows it.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Ummm...I know he is most likely the nominee.

I'm talking about vetting and laughing at how his supporters think he is so vetted and she isn't.

I'll try to be extra-responsive for you next time.

:)

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

You're still avoiding the issue. Bill and Hillary will have to explain everything. Will they?

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

No they will wait and then have a "major speech"about it like Obama.

oy...

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Well they would have to or they'd never get the chance for her to be VP. But I agree with you. I think they wouldn't disclose what they needed disclose and therefore she would be disqualified as a potential VP.

She defended Black Panthers back in the day. You have a problem with that? You have a problem with her right-wing spiritual guide? I hope you do.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I have a problem with MANY of Obama's associations that are a LOT more connected than these lame moral equivalency attempts by the Hillary haters.

But keep amusing yourself :)

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 10:01AM | 0 recs
Greg, you seem to have lost track of the argument

The question is not "who is better vetted?" Obama is already the nominee so that question is irrelevant. The question is "would Clinton make the best VP candidate?"  Therefore, potential baggage counts as points against her, regardless of whether Obama has worse baggage (which I don't agree with you about).  Now, if you could argue that she has less baggage than all of the other potential VP candidates, that might actually mean something, but simply repeating over and over, "but Obama is worse because..." does not address the point raised by heresjohnny.  

by ashriver 2008-05-22 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Although there is some many new mountatins of Clinton gold to mine I have a feeling that a replay of Bill and Hillary golden oldies is a lot of Americans need to be disgusted. That Blue dress is comming out from under the display case and will be doing the rounds on all the chat shows introducing a whole new generation of young Hillary supporters to the notion that Hillary never divorced her self from a sexist predator of mythical stature.

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:07AM | 0 recs
A bit hyperbolic, are we?

Honestly, give the blue dress thing a rest.  It's tacky.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:11AM | 0 recs
its true

and if people want to bring up the whole vetting issue this is a completely valid point. Being "vetted" in the past does not mean the same issues will not be reawaken. It is so funny how Clinton people trash the notion of hope yet that is all you have on this particular point.

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:47AM | 0 recs
Er, alright

I'm an Obama supporter, friend.

We've seen this year that the negative smear tactics aren't holding a lot of water... that's why Obama is still in this, yes?

We know the Republicans are going to get dirty.  We don't have to do their work for them.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Don't forget Clinton's old law firm also defended Black Panthers. But hey this is only a problem for her supporters when its Obama and Wright. Any hear from Lanni Guinier lately?

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

TMP I could throw out all the muck on Obama in these threads but, unlike you, I'll try to stay above that because bashing the Clinton's gets you good ratings but if I appoint out an equivalent I get troll rated..

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 09:06AM | 0 recs
You mean even in Alegere's redoubt you get TR'd?

Thats a pretty hard feat. Hmmmm .... Are you sure it might not be the way you say it?

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: You mean even in Alegere's redoubt you get TR'

OK...when you make sense let me know.

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 09:59AM | 0 recs
you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog here

and you are a Hillary supporter. Don't blame the messager. Just got to wonder what brings that on.

by TMP 2008-05-22 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog

I haven't been TR'd on Alegre blog on here -- I have never even posted in any of her blogs. Again making no sense. Read what I wrote.

And I could use a good "massager" but I'll get it elsewhere thx.

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog

Hey you said you were getting TR'd. As far many of us are concerned Mydd is Alegre's blog and if you pretend not to get that I suspect that might be another reason why you are such a TR magnet. Your are your own evidence.

by TMP 2008-05-22 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog

I said I wasn't going to flesh out Obama's indiscretions because then I WOULD get TR'd.

What are you doing here but to badmouth this place?

Is ObamaKos not your cup of tea?

You can't make a cohesive argument so You TR me for no reason.

You're a winner ;)

by GregNYC 2008-05-22 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog

You won't speak about Obama's "indiscretions" because you might get TR'd yet you never get TR'd on this pro-Hillary blog. Okey dokey.

by TMP 2008-05-22 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: you are the one getting TR'd on Alegre's blog

You really need to grow up.

by GregNYC 2008-05-23 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

In fact, I think that's a plus for her but Clinton supporters clearly should not and the GOP most certainly would push it.

He's a closet black panther and she defended them!

Obama/Clinton 08 - Revenge of the Black Man!!! Hide the white women!!

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:08AM | 0 recs
Blazing Saddles ticket!

...I'm not gonna say it.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Blazing Saddles ticket!

I love Cleavon Little & Gene Wilder. They'd have my vote in a second!

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

He's winning Virginia.

If McCain picks Christ as his running mate, then not even St. Peter could win FL for the democrats.

by LordMike 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If McCain picks Christ for his running mate, the GOP will lose the evangelical vote and a large portion of their base, that's a fact.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

But, they will still win FL...

by LordMike 2008-05-22 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Sure, they win FL but put TX, MI, AL, GA, KS(moreso), KY, WV and the rest of the bible belt from red to purple (leaning blue).  DO not underestimate the evangelical base's hatred of homosexuality - especially when they see it as an abomination in the face of God (i'm not talking about the mainstream religous crowds by in large).  You think some Obama and Hillary supporters are nutjobs, try driving through WV and KY and seeing "God Hates Fags" on church billboards (I've seen that shit, it's crazy).

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Sorry, mean MS instead of MI - typos are killing me today

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-05-22 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

He won by the same rules Clinton agreed too. She ran crappy out of touch campaign and she would be a crappy out of touch president. Plus if the things you say are true then Obama should select Edwards.

by TMP 2008-05-22 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

take your stand, Greg.  Don't vote for the Democratic frontrunner.  The dead in Iraq will thank you for your small contribution to an endless war.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:21AM | 0 recs
Why play second fiddle

to someone she and many of us feel isn't qualified to be her secretary of the interior?

Why wait 8 years when she can watch the Obama lose and then run again in 2012?

Why be his VP when she will be the nominee?

by NewHampster 2008-05-22 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Because he bested her in the primaries? It's called "political reality."

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

If he loses she'll be blamed by too many people for her to mount an effective campaign in 2012.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Bingo.  Hillary Clinton is a very smart person and surely she knows that if Obama gets the nomination and loses, not-insignificant portions of the Democratic electorate are going to blame her for the loss.  In this sense, she's become almost as invested in the 2008 election as Obama is.  Why not have her on the ticket and complete her investment?

by robitude 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Would she allow the Obama camp to pry into her and Bill's finances and personal business? That would be required if she wanted to be VP.

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Agreed wholeheartedly.  That has to be considered the biggest mark against a Clinton Vice Presidency.

by robitude 2008-05-22 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Hers? without a doubt.

His? likely.

the library and other foundations? I don't think so.

by Ernst 2008-05-22 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

And what specific experince does the Tonya Harding fo politics have again. Please list them and feel free to include her years of service at Walmart and as a cattle futures magician.

by TMP 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
I presume you mean The Obama

and his club wielding Chicago pals like Axelrod.

I really can't think of any experience he has that would make him any better than the greatest orator of the 20th century.  That man's oration drew millions to him throughout the 30's and into the 1940's.

by NewHampster 2008-05-22 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I presume you mean The Obama

we've had plenty of our own blow-hards, but the point I think you're making, that a record of sticking to hard stands to show what he holds as his priorities would be minimal to alleviate whatever fears anyone may have about where he stands on progressive issues.  The guy you refer to based his oratory on the superiority of his citizens and the inferiority of others, and he tapped into their desire for revenge.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: I presume you mean The Obama

HR'd for comparing OBama to Hitler - Come ON.

by auronrenouille 2008-05-22 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I presume you mean The Obama

Man, you're crazy. He was talking about FDR.

by Pacific John 2008-05-22 09:39AM | 0 recs
where the beef?

Back up your statement with the facts. What did she do beside wallmart, cattle futures and Bill appointments?

by TMP 2008-05-22 09:56AM | 0 recs
Sorry but back at you

Where's the beef?

What has THE Obama done besides give a second rate speech in 2002 that had to be re-enacted in 2007 because nobody cared what he said in 2002?

by NewHampster 2008-05-22 10:31AM | 0 recs
you have nothing

by TMP 2008-05-22 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

vice secretary of the interior? I get the joke, he's more a leader type than a worker bee. She's both.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Why play second fiddle

Oh no.  You're here.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

It seems like a simple calculus politically:

Do you gain more from adding Clinton and her backers to the ticket than you lose by giving Clinton haters a target, and damping the message of "change" by taking the dynasty candidate as your running mate?

I think one of the issues is - can Hillary "win" a place like FL as easily as VP?

Polls also indicate Edwards would be a heck of a VP, but it's irritating those pollsters didn't poll for results with Clinton as the VP at the same time as they were polling Sebelius and others.

Also - is it a foregone conclusion that all the "I won't vote for Obama" Hillary voters will vote for the ticket if she's on it in the VP slot?

by mattw 2008-05-22 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

actually that is a foregone conclusion, I think she'll be the nom and she'll invite him, but if he wins in Denver, I'd campaign and again donate to the party only if she were invited onto the ticket and if she accepted. I

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

The question isn't what the polls show now.  The question is how an Obama-Clinton ticket looks after Clinton has been "vetted."  You know, that process that Clinton supporters here claim she has gone through, even though Bill Clinton's library funding, his connections with various international men of mystery following his presidency, etc. haven't been delved into because the Democrats generally are above that level of smearing.  

by rfahey22 2008-05-22 08:33AM | 0 recs
by MissVA 2008-05-22 08:34AM | 0 recs
Virginia

This poll is an outlier. Yesterday the Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) poll produced this:

Virginia: McCain vs. Obama VCU McCain 44, Obama 36 McCain +8.0

I'll go with the home state polling firm everytime. No other poll has shown anything like the SurveyUSA results - its an outlier.

There is zero chance will lose Virgina - Navy veteran, war hero, Scot-Irish - Obama has no chance here.

by minnehot1 2008-05-22 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Has there been any time in the past where primary oponents have ended up being chosen for the VP slot.I don't think so. I think hillary is putting herself lower and lower on the list as she keeps alienating her supporters from Obama. The more this goes on this way to more harm she does to the entire progressive movement.

by eddieb 2008-05-22 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Kerry picked Edwards no?

by heresjohnny 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

And Reagan picked Bush I. And JFK picked LBJ.

by fugazi 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

2004, Kerry picked Edwards.  He was seen as "having no choice" but to do it, 'cos Edwards was so popular with the base.  It was a disaster.  They didn't get along at all, and Edwards ended up bringing nothing to the table.

Kerry wanted Gephardt... who was not the most inspiring of candidates, but it would have been a much better choice.  He would have easliy won Iowa with Gephardt on the ticket, and probably pulled out Ohio.

by LordMike 2008-05-22 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Reagan/Bush, Kennedy/Johnson, Kerry/Edwards.

A lot of precedent.

by mikeinsf 2008-05-22 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

There's a big downside:

They hate each other...

She also has so disparaged him in the media, that she would have a hard time backtracking on her statements that, "He's not ready for the presidency" or whatnot...

It would also make him look weak if it was forced upon him... and it totally violates his theme of new politics by bringing in a legacy candidate.  

There is also no evidence that she would actually bring in the votes from her supporters if she were number 2.  And he'd alienate a huge number of Obamicans and independents and well as his activist base by doing so...

She'd take the vp slot if for no other reason than Barack could legally pay off her debts at that point (their funds would be combined)... maybe that's why she's pushing so hard for it.

by LordMike 2008-05-22 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

But she's going to backtrack on her statements anyway. VP or not, she'll bow out gracefully, endorse him, say nice things, and try to pull her supporters behind the nominee.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I'll believe it when I see it... I have grave doubts that she will ever end this gracefully or rally her supporters to the nominee's side.  She has shown absolutely no sign of doing either at this point.

by LordMike 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Agreed.  These statements from Clinton (both Clintons, really) are going to be a problem for Obama in the general no matter what.  How better to confront them than to have Hillary on the ticket dealing with them at point-blank range?

by robitude 2008-05-22 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This such a silly comment. They don't hate each other. They were competing for a prize. When it's over people move.  

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Political opponents regularly dislike each other. and quite a few actively hate each other. You can not not take it personally at such a level.

But usually politicians are used to working constructively with people they hate, so it wouldn't be a deal breaker per sé

by Ernst 2008-05-22 11:21AM | 0 recs
Of course she wants it

I have to ask, though... how many times has a vice president been elected as president after an eight year term?  The only one in recent memory is George H.W. Bush, and we can't really count Gore, can we?

There are things that Clinton could do that would improve her chances in 2016; Governor of New York in 2010 would probably be an even better move, because she'd gather up direct executive experience to add to her already impressive resume.  

Vice President... especially in an Obama administration whose governing philosophies run so counter to the Clinton style... would not be that attractive.  She saw what happened to Al Gore in her husband's presidency; I don't see how she imagines, after everything she put Obama through, that she'd be given anything more than prefunctory duties in an Obama administration, for fear that she would go off the reservation.

Honestly, Obama doesn't need Clinton on the ticket to shore up her demographics.  I think that if she would just stand back and realize that she's got a bright future ahead of her with Obama in the White House, she would do the right thing and campaign relentlessly in Appalachia to get their (yes, 'their') message of Democratic reform out there.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Of course she wants it

We can count Gore to the degree of saying: "A VP is in good position to compete very well for the presidency."

Historically, senators haven't been able to claim that. What's unusual this year is that a sitting Sentor WILL become president, no matter what.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Of course she wants it

Al Gore was elected president in 2000. I hope the members of the site NEVER forget that fact!

by northstars 2008-05-22 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Of course she wants it

What specifically is impressive about her resume? Please list some of the the things she did as public service and leave off glorified internships and things she was appointed to by her husband.

by TMP 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Not my game to play, TMP

Obviously her resume is impressive enough for her to credibly run for president without being laughed at.

I'm not interested in bandying Clinton's committee head positions and such, as she's not my candidate, but what I will say is that her case for president is much stronger in 2016 if she's been governor of New York for 6 years.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:56AM | 0 recs
Does Obama want Hillary to be VP

The VP selection must be left to the nominee. I have no doubt that Obama will consider Clinton as he has said he will. But this has to be his choice. If the appearance is that the selection was coerced by party insiders, it weakens him as a leader. Sen Obama will not be a pawn or puppet.

by grasshopper 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Obama want Hillary to be VP

Nonsense. This is one of the many decisions that gets greatly influenced by back-room wheeling and dealing. Not a problem, just a facet of American democracy.

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:40AM | 0 recs
It's one that he won't tolerate, however

I don't see Obama accepting back-room dealing on the VP choice.  That's not his style, for one, and for two, most of the leadership seem to admire how he's run his primary campaign and I'd bet figure they'll stick with his plan.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: It's one that he won't tolerate, however

One of Obama's big selling points has been that he knows how to cut deals with the opposition. Why wouldn't he apply that skill here?

by PhilFR 2008-05-22 08:49AM | 0 recs
Oh, he can cut a deal...

...it's just that the other part of his selling points is that he won't give in to threats or extreme pressure to do what he doesn't believe is right.

He would be happy to cut a deal to support her as Senate Majority Leader, I'd bet.  The VP spot, however, lies within the realm of his ethical and civic need to get the person he considers best for that spot.  He won't choose someone that he doesn't feel is as qualified to pursue his agenda as he is.  Clinton, for all her strong points, has little interest in Obama's agenda of government transparency or reform.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Of course she wants VP. That's what she's running for now.

by fugazi 2008-05-22 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Does anyone truly believe that the package of Hillary AND Bill is gonna be considered?

by nogo postal 2008-05-22 08:38AM | 0 recs
Bill is a huge plus

Having a former president in your corner is a huge bonus when it comes to establishing a government and  an operation White House, not to mention as a source of guidance when the inevitable crisis emerges.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If Hillary wanted the VP spot, she probably could have had it.

But her actions since Wisconsin pretty much preclude a spot on the ticket, at this point.

After all, SHE'S IN IT TO WIN IT, GANG!!!!!!!

by DeskHack 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Obama &quot;starts search for running mate&quot;

Obama has asked former Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson to begin vetting potential vice presidential picks, Democratic officials said Thursday. Johnson did the same job for Democratic nominees John Kerry in 2004 and Walter Mondale in 1984.

Obama refused to acknowledge Johnson's role when The Associated Press asked the Illinois senator about it in the Captiol Thursday.

"I haven't hired him. He's not on retainer. I'm not paying him any money. He is a friend of mine. I know him," Obama said. "I am not commenting on vice presidential matters because I have not won this nomination."

The Democratic officials spoke on a condition of anonymity about a process that the campaign wants to keep quiet.  AP

by Bucky 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Clinton is at her peak of popularity now.

While Obama is at his trough.

She's all sweet with Scaife, and FoxNews is the toast of the Clinton campaign (Terry McCauliffe should be flogged for saying "you guys really are fair and balanced"--how many years will that quote be looped for).  I've got Republican friends who six months ago thought she was the antichrist now saying she isn't so bad.

Is this really where she's at, or will she go back to being reviled by many of the "working class whites" who voted for her once the right wing hate machine trains its cannons back on her?

by jimotto 2008-05-22 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Given my sense of Obama's personality, I don't think he will offer it to Clinton, and I don't think it matters. The Vice-Presidential choice hasn't significantly impacted the November election in decades. From my understanding of history, the last instance was in 1976, when Mondale helped shore up support for Carter in the northern industrial states. There hasn't been a game-changer since 1960 and Kennedy-Johnson. In my own experience as a voter, Lloyd Bentsen didn't significantly help Dukakis, Dan Quayle didn't significantly hurt Bush the Elder, and the impact of Gore, Kemp, Lieberman, Cheney, and Edwards in their respective races didn't affect things much one way or the other.

by Pol C 2008-05-22 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Actually, Bush's selection of Dan Quayle helped him immeasurably, but you are correct that it did not help him balance the ticket in any traditional electoral sense.

Recall, before Bush picked Quayle, his greatest problem was his public perception as a wimp. Following the selection, Bush was framed (and perceived) to be a wise old grandfatherly figure with perhaps the best resume any would be President had ever had.

The 1988 election narrative turned its focus away from Bush's problems on to Quayle's. This hurt the Dems in that no one cared about Quayle's (perceived) short-comings, and as you point out no one voted because of Lloyd Bentsen's strengths, either.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton just wants relevance

Having his wife as Vice President is the only way he can get relevance in the Democratic Party.  It's also because having Hillary on the ticket strengthens his legacy.  It's all about Bill.

If Obama has Hillary on the ticket, all Republicans have to do is ask, "Do you really want Bill Clinton back in the White House?"  And I don't think Barack Obama wants to have to work with Bill Clinton's ego.  At least with Hillary as Senate Majority Leader, she would be her own person, and Bill would be irrelevant.

by Brad G 2008-05-22 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Clinton just wants relevance

Why do people assume that Bill would be a problem for Obama in the White House?

Having Bill available would be a HUGE asset for any president. He would not be looking over Obama's shoulder, but he would be a wise man on call and sent around to use his status to achieve special international missions. This is how ALL former presidents have worked with ALL subsequent White Houses.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:48AM | 0 recs
Hillary will motivate Republicans

Hillary as VP will bring out as many repubs as if she was at the top of the ticket. Also many people like myself will not donate money to the DNC so that a proven race baiter can get into the White House. Also with all her inflamatory crap about MI and FL the other day I have absolutely no confidence that she will not screw the American public then use some  BS sleight of hand rhetoric to rationalize it. Remember the debate about the meaning of is? The Clinton's on unethical scumbags to their very marrow.

by TMP 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary will motivate Republicans

Race baiter? Come on, TMP. For simply pointing out Obama is black? She's not exactly making Willie Horton ads or burning crosses.

Please. Let's tone down our rhetoric and see the world in a new light. It's the general election, now, and it's time to unite.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Hillary wants the nomination only

Who knows what she wants....

Some conclude that she will accept nothing but the nomination, and her actions are not designed to achieve anything else.

I'm starting to agree. She continues to pursue the nomination regardless of the consequences to her or her party.

No one is saying she should drop out, by the way. But the passion of her campaign and supporters has been both impressive and irritating.

by wolff109 2008-05-22 08:43AM | 0 recs
Nightmare scenario

Todd inadvertently explained exactly why she cannot be Obama's choice for VP.

"She doesn't want to return to the White House with the ability to perhaps pursue fewer issues on a national level that she's passionate about (healthcare for one) rather than focusing on all issues as a representative of one, albeit large, state? She doesn't want to continue to campaign for national office through November and then run again in 4 years, something she and Bill clearly love and thrive on?"

You can't have Presidential leadership if the VP thinks she's entitled to be running an issue.  What happens when President Obama tells Vice President Clinton how he thinks the health care policy debate should run, and she disagrees?  Given recent events, I'd expect her to go over his head to try to build an independent base for her preferred methods.  

It would be lunacy for him to choose her.

by TL 2008-05-22 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Nightmare scenario

I honestly don't think Obama gives a rip about Health Care.

Kennedy gave LBJ Civil Rights.  Let Hillary have health care.

by colebiancardi 2008-05-22 08:53AM | 0 recs
Hah

That's why he's promised to make that his first priority, and to pass it before the end of his first term.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Nightmare scenario

I'm sure Hillary believes, as you do, that she owns this issue.  

Which, again, is exactly why she can't be veep.

by TL 2008-05-22 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This is Todd as you say something of a no brainer. Not only is it a no brainer it makes entire sense for an overwhelming reason I outlined in a post yesterday and which was touched on with perfect clarity in a piece in this week's New Yorker by George Packer. Namely he needs her because the coalition of upscale liberals, blacks and young people is probably not enough to carry him to victory in the fall against McCain. For some reason this notion seems to be unacceptable to the more ultra of his followers although I don't think it's escaped the notice of either his campaign or the high panjandrums of the party. Furthermore she has the ability to force the issue if she wants to play hardball. Consider a two scenarios. In one she just puts out the work to her followers but without fingerprints that she wants it. I can see it now. Demos on the convention floor, just imagine the ovation when she enters the hall,  backroom arm twisting, it would be a disaster for any attempt by him to unify the party. The second scenario has her retiring gracefully to the senate, going through the motions of campaigning but essentially sitting it out. If he wins great, if he doesn't? The odds are that this is going to be a Obama/Clinton ticket. And the party other than the ultras here would go mad with enthusiasm.                  

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Its such a tough call. Anything makes him look like he was forced into it is a drag. And obviously there is a wealth of really harsh statements by Clinton to get replayed endlessly on the web and the idiot box. But just as obviously it would go a long way towards placating Hillary's supporters. Hard to imagine to many of them voting against a ticket that has a Clinton on the poster.

by wasder 2008-05-22 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Hillary as Obama's VP, doesn't do a thing for me. Now if it was Obama as Clinton's VP, then I might vote for that ticket, but will not vote for Obama as the top spot, under any circumstances.  

by muggle 2008-05-22 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Nobody cares. Really.

by Black Anus 2008-05-22 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Nobody? Is that what the Obama faithful are calling anyone that supports Hillary Clinton now, which would mean that about half the country are "nobody's. I've also heard us described as "bitter uneducated working class idiots, that cling to our guns and god".   All I can say is, good luck with getting people like me to vote for an elitist candidate, such as Obama, if he is the nominee.

by muggle 2008-05-22 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I don't care who you vote for. Maybe I overstated it a bit when I said "nobody." It's probably more accurate to say that fewer and fewer people are giving a rat's ass about whiny babies such as yourself who purport to be democrats, and frequent a democratic/progressive blog, but who stomp your wee little feet on the ground over and over in a tantrum worthy of a two year old on speed.

by Black Anus 2008-05-22 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Thanks for the reply, Black Ass.

by muggle 2008-05-22 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Why in the name of all that is holy would you not vote for a Democrat, any Democrat over McCain? What are you afraid Obama would do with the power of the Presidency? We aren't electing a King here, you know.

by pneuma 2008-05-22 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I always vote my conscience, and my conscience will not let me vote for the hypocrite that Obama is. I will not vote republican under any circumstances, so there's that. IMO, Obama will lose to McCain, with or without my vote, so I might as well act in concert with my conscience.

by muggle 2008-05-22 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

So you are OK with two more Alitos on the supreme court? The Christian Republic of America is what's in store for you. I hope you enjoyed having your freedoms while they lasted.

by abraxas 2008-05-22 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

My solution is to help elect enough democrat senators and congresspeople, so that they can over rule any right leaning president, whether it be McCain, Obama or Clinton. We can exert lots more pressure on congress than we ever can any president, so IMO, we are better served if we spend our energy electing good dems in both houses, than putting all our hopes on one man or woman, who once elected, always tend to feel like they are above the law, and none of the three left in the race will be any different, no matter how Obamabots think their man is god and saviour.

by muggle 2008-05-22 07:08PM | 0 recs
Anybody but Clinton

She isn't a team player.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-22 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Anybody but Clinton

What a bumper sticker comment in this context.  

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Anybody but Clinton

Actually, she is.

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Anybody but Clinton

If she were she would have dropped out of the race after Wisconsin.  She also wouldn't be down in FL making it harder to Obama to win in November.

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-22 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Anybody but Clinton

Let's just make it a law that Obama should never have to actually compete with anyone, shall we?

when was the last time you heard calls for a legitimate candidate to step out of a race and to not do so meant that he was not a party player?

This is not only a bogus argument, it's a repugnant one.

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Anybody but Clinton

Oh puhleeze.  

Anyone not named Clinton would have left the race after she lost a dozen straight races and had to "loan" her campaign millions of dollars.  She lost the race months ago.  She has no reason to be in it right now.  

As a result, she isn't a team player, and she won't be a good VP.

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-22 09:17AM | 0 recs
As an Obama supporter would say..

Cites? Links?  Any support for this comment?  

by emmasaint 2008-05-22 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

The pressure is on Obama not to pick Clinton as VP. But I think it's a mistake at least not to consider her. If offered, Jimmy Carter said Clinton would accept the job. The biggest argument against Clinton is that it would wreck Obama's meme of change. I doubt that will be the case as LBJ did not hurt JFK's meme of change.

If I'm Obama, I might wait to see if McCain picks a VP first. If I simply couldn't pick Clinton for personal reasons, I'd take a good look at Kathleen Sebalius. I disagree with some pro-Obama pundits who say that not having a white male on the ticket would be too much change for America to accept.

by Zzyzzy 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Pressure from whom? I'd say as the next few weeks tick by the pressure is going to be ON him to put her on the ticket. And she could at the very least make it very uncomfortable for him to pass her over if she chose. I'm going to watching her very closely over the next few weeks. To listen to his supporters here you'd think he'd won the nomination by a landslide and not a hairsbreadth. Look he knows all this even if these partisans don't. When I read some of their postings I really think some of them would rather risk losing than have him pick her. When they are busy indulging themselves they perhaps need to reflect that the same attitudes could prevail among her supporters and what it means in terms of a unified party.      

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Yes Sebelius, cuz Kansas is a swing state with a on of electoral votes and her son has a developed a board games that jokes about prison rape. Didn't she make some awful comment after 9-11? Does anyone remember that?

by northstars 2008-05-22 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Here's our conundrum. We have a candidate who has a solid lock on the Electoral College vice a candidate who faces an uphill battle.

Do I think Hillary is going to win NC, or Indiana, as is currently shown on the MyDD map? No. Missouri? Not likely. And still, she has a comfortable margin because of stable, solid leads in Ohio and Florida.

Contrast the Hillary map with that of Barack. The situations in Ohio and Florida do not look good for Obama. What's worse, he's currently trailing in Michigan.

I want to give Barack two months of unfettered, on the stump campaigning as our presumptive nominee against McCain. Come time of the convention, if the EV map still looks like it does today, the super delegates have to do their duty and nominate the person who's assured of becoming President.

by Bob Miller 2008-05-22 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This is it.

Exactly.

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?
When "a friend" says something that makes absolutely no sense, I tend to disregard it.  
Hillary would not consider it an honor to be chosen by Obama.  She wants the top spot.  
You know, guys just don't get this at all.  The VP is not an totally AWSEOME consolation prize,  It is an offer of political obscurity.  She knows way more than Obama.  Why would she want to do the work and not get the credit?  Or even worse, be airlocked in an office in the far corner of the West Wing?  Women don't see that as a plum job.  We see it as humiliation.  
Forget it.  If he's so keen to be in the WH, let OBAMA take VP and have Hillary at the top.  We're tired of being passed over for promotion by some shmoozing hotshot man.  
by goldberry 2008-05-22 09:09AM | 0 recs
I'm tired of people who use family connections

to get what they haven't earned.

by JJE 2008-05-22 09:41AM | 0 recs
Hillary Clinton: the Psycho Ex-GF of Dem Party?

I'm sure I'll get drawn and quartered for even bringing this up, but did anyone see Reddit or Wil Wheaton's post about Hillary being the Psycho Ex of the Democratic party?  The more I hear about the Clinton's lately, the more this article fits.

http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup /2008/05/hillary-clinton.html?cid=113890 982#comment-113890982

Why can't she just ride off into the sunset in a dignified manner?  Why is everything a fight?  After winning the nomination, doesn't Obama deserve the chance to pick for himself?  Maybe if she stopped acting like a Psycho Ex-girlfriend Obama might have invited her on the ticket?

I'm having a hard time finding anyone that thinks Hillary as VP is a good idea except here on mydd.  For a change, let's everyone think of the party first.  Let's do what is best and figure out what is the best strategy to get Obama into the big chair.

I think it's pretty clear that Obama and Clinton don't like each other.  So why on earth should he offer her the VP?  If your answer is because she "is owed" then you are just being selfish.  Since when is the VP slot "owed" to anyone?

And what's with the threats?  "If HRC doesn't win, I'm voting for McCain"!  Or "if HRC doesn't get to be veep, I'm voting for McCain"!  Stop please.  Stop threatening everyone.  Stop blackmailing.  Sheesh.  I wish HRC would just go away and stop tearing the party apart.

by Dirk Diggler 2008-05-22 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Is Bill's comment the equivalent of a concession speech?

by Black Anus 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Edwards wanted the VP slot in 2004. He got it by playing nice through the late primaries.

If Clinton wanted to be VP, she wouldn't still be attacking. She wouldn't, for example, be trying to delegitimize Obama's impending victory by comparing it to Birmingham or Zimbabwe.

by vinc 2008-05-22 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If the situation were reversed and Obama had won the popular vote but was only behind by 150 delegates.  Hillary would be forced to take Obama as VP.  The same should be expected of Obama.  Hillary's voters deserve a place on this ticket.  If you shun us you will lose in November.  

by karajan72 2008-05-22 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

You don't deserve anything.  You and your candidate just made it harder to win in November.   You don't deserve to be rewarded.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-22 09:18AM | 0 recs
If you shun us you will lose in November.

I trust you won't be foolish enough to help bring about another Bush/McCain term.

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-22 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: If you shun us you will lose in November.

Only if you're foolish enough to nominate the weaker candidate.  We won't help you eomit voter assisted suicide of the party.  You still have a choice.  Use it wisely.  

by goldberry 2008-05-22 09:24AM | 0 recs
Nobody cares what you think you're entitled to

especially when you're a liar.

by JJE 2008-05-22 09:35AM | 0 recs
It's not the same

Obama wouldn't take the VP spot, for one, but for two, she'd be expected to take him on as VP because he's a team player and would add immeasurably to the ticket (especially his youth and black appeal).

Clinton really doesn't add much to the ticket in terms of demographics or states, and her attitude towards the race until this point has calcified all sentiment on the matter.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I'm not a huge fan of Hillary as VP, but the more I think about it the better an idea I think it is.  I think that the Hillary campaign has said and done a lot of things that will damage Obama in the GE, and I think that having her on the ticket undermines him in a lot of ways.  Therefore, if this is going to happen, (and at this point, I think it's the best way to unite the party) both campaigns will need to be very clear exactly how it will work.

If both campaigns can address the following issues I will be on board:

  1. Will Hillary try to preempt a lot of the executive office's power and continue the traditions established by Cheney?
  2. Will she accept the role as number 2 and defer to Obama, or will she work against him?  For example, if Obama doesn't agree to Hillary's version of Healthcare and still wants to push his own, will Hillary back down or will she "cut Obama's legs off" politically?
  3. How will Bill Clinton fit into a Hillary vice-presidency?
  4. Will Hillary emphatically and enthusiastically campaign for Obama to ensure that her supporters stop this "vote for McCain" nonsense?
  5. How will the two campaigns reconcile their differences considering the harsh, demeaning, and often destructive tone they have taken towards each other over the last four months?

by brathor 2008-05-22 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Hillary gains a Super delegate today from Guam.

by karajan72 2008-05-22 09:16AM | 0 recs
Oh yeah.

Feel that Guamentum!

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

This diary makes it sound like Hillary would be another Dick Cheney de facto president. That would be one good reason among many for Obama to not want her on his ticket.

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-22 09:17AM | 0 recs
This election has been extremely close

there is basically about 200 votes difference between us and Clinton and a virtual tie in the popular vote.

So, let us forget the stupid rhetoric and the talking points memos that some are stupidly repeating. The difference between Obama and Clinton is almost negligible compared to previous primaries. A 51% victory is hardly a slam dunk for us folks and it is not also a mandate given by the base of the democratic party. The base of the democratic party is clearly saying: wait a minute were dividing our votes between you two; we are dating you both and we are not ready to marry either of you.

So, i think Obama needs to unite the party and putting Clinton on the ticket is the best way to do that.

For those who say that Clinton does not bring anything to the ticket. Well, stop all your bullshit rhetoric and think about it for a second: Arkansas + West Virginia + Florida + Ohio, that is about 58 EVs right there. And these are states that Obama needs serious help to carry in the fall.

Beyond everything else: I want to WIN FLORIDA SO BADLY THIS YEAR. And Obama will not win it without Clinton on the ticket.

So, i think Obama needs to publicly extend the VP spot to Clinton. His campaign needs to stop playing politics; saying something in public and doing something else behind closed doors. Let him be the uniter that he is presenting himself to be and let him extend the hand to Clinton. To be honest with you, as an Obama supporter i will be watching this very closely as this is the first test of his campaign rhetoric. If he really cares about brining people together (this is why i voted him on Feb 5th and this is why i support him) beyond petty politics as he often says, well he would start by uniting the party first by putting Clinton on the ticket. If he could not or would not unite the party and show petty politics, well   that would a negative sign of things to come.  

by likelihood zero 2008-05-22 09:23AM | 0 recs
Why?

Why put your faith in Florida again?  Aren't you asking for trouble?

Florida has a gay marriage amendment on the ballot this year.  Crist will do whatever it takes to deliver that state for McCain.  

I don't mind fighting for Florida, but basing any strategy on it is a suicide mission.

Anyway, I don't get how you can be criticizing Obama for "playing politics."  Isn't the presidential election entirely politics?  Clinton does not match what he wants for his presidency.  He should be under no obligation to take her on.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Why?

Charlie Crist is in the closet and he has been there for years now; he is gay and everyone in Miami beach knows that. Let us see him push that amendment hard in the fall and some are standing ready to release very compromising pictures of him and come out and testify that he is as gay as a picnic basket.

by likelihood zero 2008-05-22 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: This election has been extremely close

A couple questions.

1) What evidence is there to suggest that Clinton in the VP spot will override the dislike that Appalachia has for Obama?  I find it highly unlikely that she will turn those states around by being in the number two spot.

2) If Obama suddenly extended the VP invitation to Hillary today, do you think it would tone down the Clinton fanatic rhetoric about Obama being sexist?  I can already see the Alegre and Texasdarlin diaries on the Rec list here:  Obama relegates Women to no. 2!

See, many of them, somehow, still think Clinton can win this without suffering from the same shattered base that you discuss in this comment.  What can Clinton do to calm down her base of support and make them be satisfied with the number 2 spot?

by brathor 2008-05-22 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: This election has been extremely close

Clinton won't bring West-Virginia -- more than 2/3rds of her supporters there said they would never ever EVER vote for Obama. Most of them would vote for McCain. Nothing she'll do can change that, even if she wanted to.

And I doubt she would bring any of the other places you mentioned either.

Clinton has made it very clear she won't be content with 2nd place. She still doesn't accept she's lost, and she actually thinks that refusing reality makes her appear strong. To most of the world it merely makes her look demented instead. http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20080521.ht ml

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-22 09:35AM | 0 recs
Did Bill concede for Hillary?

There goes Bill Clinton off message again. While Hillary is down in FL swearing a fight to the death he's conceded the primary and is lobbying for the VP slot.

by hankg 2008-05-22 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Did Bill concede for Hillary?

Now why would Obama want to take HIM on to his campaign?

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-22 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Did Bill concede for Hillary?

Obama wants total control of his campaign and his messaging he can kiss that good bye with the Clintons on board.

The media would love it. They would be running 24/7 making up stories about the tension between the Clinton and Obama camps. Can Barack control Bill? Does Michelle hate Hillary? inquiring minds want to know.

Perfect excuse to avoid having to cover Grampy McCains daily foot in mouth events. It would be like the primary never ended. A ratings bonanza.

by hankg 2008-05-22 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Did Bill concede for Hillary?

The VP position would be the perfect place from which to sabotage Obama's campaign and set Hillary up for 2012.

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-22 09:57AM | 0 recs
LOL! How true.

I hope Al Giordano is right and Obama turned her down. I was willing to consider her before but not after the grandstanding of the last couple of weeks. She is basically trying to delegitimize him anyway she can and blackmail him to pick her.

Hell NO!.

But I am not worried. I just know that he wouldn't pick her in million years.

by Sopianae 2008-05-22 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I don't like to think about the vp slot, and although I've blogged that I'd like him on her ticket, that was premature.  But he'd have great reasons to pick her too, were he our nom. She's got a huge staff-in-waiting, and she's got contacts and knows people and could help him in many ways, were she a true advisor, he could take over her detailed plans that include staffing, hiring guidelines, and her research into what's wrong with government agencies and where they need to be to bring us into the 21st century..  He'd win her supporters, and that would likely make up for the support he'd lose among his Hillary hating followers, and we'd blog for the vice president and show the world what she'd bring to the table.   I don't have a sense of him, in that I think he's smarter than he shows, but if he holds grudges and stops good people based on whatever loyalty issues he may have, I don't know.  If he took revenge on us by inviting her on the ticket but clipping her wings and thus punishing all of us, that would be divisive and stupid.  I worry about his foreign policy hubris, that it seems JFK shared. There is an op ed in today's NYT about how Kennedy met with Khrushchev and blew it so badly he got tested fast, with the Berlin wall and with the Cuban missile crisis.  It's not Americans misunderstanding Barack that is the danger, it's foreign nations thinking he'll be a walk over and testing him.  

by anna shane 2008-05-22 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Has anyone see this?

The Field can now confirm, based on multiple sources, something that both campaigns publicly deny: that Senator Clinton has directly told Senator Obama that she wants to be his vice presidential nominee, and that Senator Obama politely but straightforwardly and irrevocably said "no." Obama is going to pick his own running mate based on his own criteria and vetting process.

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=1248

It would certainly explain Hillary Clinton going from 0 to 60 a couple of days ago.

by Jess81 2008-05-22 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Boy, for someone who presumably wants change and unity and is inspired by Obama to a better politic, that blog is sure nasty.

Toward another Democrat no less.

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

And you believe this?  

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 09:39AM | 0 recs
Wow

If that's true, then it's harsh... good, but harsh.

The Clintons really need to take a time out and realize that not everything is about them.  Bill especially.

If they're really that driven, who knows what they'll do.  Independant run?

by Dracomicron 2008-05-22 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

The Al Giordano revelation is dynamite.
If she asked for VP. What is the rational for continuing her campaign.

Shocker.

by MissVA 2008-05-22 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Well, yes it would be dynamite, that is why the Obama campaign denies it. If Obama had that stance he would be blowing up his opportunity to win over Hillary voters, and doing serious damage to his chances in the general election. It would be a rallying cry for Hillary supporters to fight to the convention, she speaks for us and we will not be silenced.

by souvarine 2008-05-22 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I doubt it.  I've said this before, but I don't think Clinton voters are as tied to personality as that.

by Jess81 2008-05-22 09:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

You're correct, it is not about personality. It is about us, we support her for a reason.

by souvarine 2008-05-22 10:13AM | 0 recs
Thanks for the plug Todd

I appreciate it, just finishing my Rice Fun with chicken and veggies before I head to path lab.

by Student Guy 2008-05-22 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Polls are now showing McCain beating Obama in swing states.

The Clintons knew what they were doing from the beginning.  

What a disaster this could be.  

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Other polls show McCain beating Hillary in other swing states that Obama wins.

by fwiffo3 2008-05-22 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

except that the Dem primaries clearly show Hillary with a much greater chance in those states, as does common sense.

by Juno 2008-05-22 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

How?  Both polling and primary results show Obama performing better in Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Virginia, etc.

by fwiffo3 2008-05-22 10:52AM | 0 recs
I'm sure the Clinton's planned it

They wanted to spend a quarter billion, including $20 million of their own, to be in the position of begging for HRC to be VP.

They're geniuses!

What politician wouldn't want to blow an inevitable candidacy to be groveling to be the VP behind... what do you Clinto supporters call Obama?... "an empty suit"?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-05-22 10:26AM | 0 recs
As a Hillary supporter,

I would definitely be happy if Obama put her on the ticket as VP.  I am one of the folks that has said "She probably wouldn't want that"  but this diary makes a good case for why she would.  If the "Update" is true,  and he has already turned her down,  he is going to have serious problems with many of Hillary's supporters who feel that she has been treated unfairly.  For that reason alone, he should put her on the ticket, if for no other reason (even though there are plenty of other good reasons).

And no I am not going to be a dead-ender. I will vote for the Dem nominee regardless of how this turns out (even though I have occasionally claimed otherwise while angry).  

But there are Hillary supporters who feel differently,  and putting Hillary on the ticket will bring the entire might of the Democratic Party upon John Mccain!  Sounds like a win-win!!!!!!!

by Sandy1938 2008-05-22 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: As a Hillary supporter,

If Obama loses in November, it will be widely perceived as Hillary's fault, even Hillary's plan. Her career would be over.

He will (probably already has, based on her behavior in the last 48 hours) turned her down, because he knows she has no choice but to help him win.

He has out maneuvered her at ever turn. And people still think he isn't qualified to be President? He just took a Clinton to school.

by pneuma 2008-05-22 10:03AM | 0 recs
That is sad but true........

If Obama loses in November, it will be widely perceived as Hillary's fault, even Hillary's plan.

And that is the downside of Hillary being on the ticket, imo.  Obama supporters will blame Hillary if he (they) fail to win the nomination.  

Its been absolutely amazing the things that Hillary has been blamed for this election cycle:  Racism,  Bush's mistakes,  and just about anything else that is wrong with this country.

Prior to this election,  I knew that Hillary was hated by the right wing.  I had no idea that she was this hated by the left wing.  The fact that she has withstood all of this, and still handles herself and her campaign with grace and dignity,  makes me like her all the more!!!!

I have always found her to be inspiring and will continue to support her!

by Sandy1938 2008-05-22 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: That is sad but true........

You have strange definition of grace and dignity, but everyone is entitled to her opinion.

I personally liked her at the beginning of this campaign, but once my candidate became the target of her tactics, I began to realize why the Republicans hate her so much.

I wonder if the Democrats aren't responsible for Karl Rove after all...it seems he learned by watching us.

by pneuma 2008-05-22 10:34AM | 0 recs
If you really believe that she is

capable of using Rove tactics,  who better to have on OUR SIDE in the fall than Hillary?   The VP becomes the "head surrogate attacker-in-chief" and under normal circumstances,  has to do the political attacking that the candidate himself/herself can't publicly do.  John Edwards has been criticizing for not being agressive enough as Kerry's VP.  Do you think Hillary would have the same problem?  I sure don't.

by Sandy1938 2008-05-22 10:49AM | 0 recs
She might lose Obama more votes...

...than she brings to the ticket. Clinton is a lightning rod for the right and will energize the base to vote against her. Plus, I suspect there will be Obama supporters who would stay home rather than vote for an Obama-Clinton-Clinton ticket.

by AuthorEditor 2008-05-22 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: She might lose Obama more votes...

And of course all these folks who hate Clinton on the right can't wait to vote for Obama. ??????????????/

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: She might lose Obama more votes...

As a staunch Obama supporter I totally disagree. The right wingers will get somewhat more energized but it won't be nearly enough to offset the power of a boomer woman with a charismatic youth magnet that is Obama.

Like it or not Obama/Clinton is the surest way to the White House for the Dems.

by abraxas 2008-05-22 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Wow. nearly half the electorate are for Clinton and you're holding your nose at the idea of her as VP.

He's going to get his clock cleaned unless he  make nice with a huge section of the ONLY  demographic that can deliver the election  for the Dems.

And you're getting sniffy about it.

It's why i post here so rarely, the shrill douchebaggery is too thick.

by Zorkon 2008-05-22 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Every time I resolve to "be a good Democrat" and vote for Obama, I come on this site and am persuaded not to rush into that decision by the Obamanauts. A more arrogant group wouldbe hard to find.

by northstars 2008-05-22 09:47AM | 0 recs
Says the person who calls

Obama supporters Obamanauts.

by Sopianae 2008-05-22 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I'm an Obama supporter.  I'm fine with Hillary on the ticket, if someone can reassure me on two points:

1. Will Obama look weak by picking Hillary (ie, he was forced into it)?  If so, will that weaken his chances of election?
2. Will picking Hillary undermine, rather than reinforce, Obama's message of change?

by bosdcla14 2008-05-22 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

And just wait to see what kind of a "lightning rod for the right" Obama becomes in  two months.

just wait.......

by Zorkon 2008-05-22 09:48AM | 0 recs
Does Hillary Want VP? Yes.

If true, he definitely pissed her off by telling her no on the VP and it explains some of the comments she's made about the Mi and Fl delegations in the past few days.

by venavena 2008-05-22 09:49AM | 0 recs
You might be right.

But it makes her look even more craven and petty. This whole grandstanding in FL is just a way to delegitimize him and blackmail him to pick her.

by Sopianae 2008-05-22 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: You might be right.

Well, it surely is coming off that way if this is true.  Kind of like she was quite a polite coming off of NC in hopes he'd pick her, but now that he shot that idea down, she's going to make herself as much of a problem as possible.  Comparing FL and MI to Zimbabwe and the Civil Rights movement is really stretching it, but if it's true that she's a candidate scorned then it's only going to get worse from here.

by venavena 2008-05-22 10:03AM | 0 recs
to what extent

is Hillary outperforming Obama in some polls because Hillary supporters are upset at the prospect of losing and are therefore more likely to say that they will vote for McCain right now?

I have no way of knowing, but it seems fairly possible.

by snaktime 2008-05-22 09:58AM | 0 recs
Yes it is possible.

I remeber someone quoting a poll after the SC Republican primary in 2000 where a large portion of McCain voters swore that they wouldn't vote for W. Then later in November they did.

by Sopianae 2008-05-22 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: to what extent

She is getting a vote that would normally vote Republican but is disenchanted right now with Repubs. She has closed that gap. Obama hasn't and cannot, and this is the mistake Democrats are making.

It's also why the complaints about the campaign she's run have been disastrous. She's run the kind of campaign Democrats have got to run in order to win the General.

by Juno 2008-05-22 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: to what extent

I think you're massively overstating the case here.  Number one, the idea that Obama cannot close the gap is based on what?  Dukakis was up 17% on Bush in June 1988.  

Perhaps more importantly, look at the national Obama/McCain and Clinton/McCain polls on RCP.  He is actually doing better than she is, or its basically even.

So while it is arguable that she would perform better, it certainly isn't obvious.  And I continue to believe a lot of this is sour Clinton supporters claiming they will vote McCain even though that won't turn out to be true for most of them.

by snaktime 2008-05-22 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

I don't think Obama should be forced to pick Hillary Clinton as his VP if that is not what he wants.  I'd feel the same way if Clinton were the presumptive nominee and she were being pressured to pick Obama.

In the end this is Obama's choice and he should pick the person he is most comfortable with.

by jmnyc 2008-05-22 10:00AM | 0 recs
Way to go Bill!

Bill Clinton does it again, by publicly comning out with this he has managed to torpedo any chances that she had to get on the ticket.  If Obama does this he will seem weak and not in control, and that is one thing that a Presidential Candidate cannot project.

So once again Bill has hosed up Hillary's campaign.  

Thank God he will not be getting into the White House again.

by xenontab 2008-05-22 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Obama may not have a choice. See Bob Beckel's column for RCP on Thurs 5/15 for further details.

by arkansasdemocrat 2008-05-22 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

If, and it's a big if, she wants it, he has no choice. Tumulty not my favorite columnist by any means but has a fair summary of the situ in Time.

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 10:27AM | 0 recs
So Hillary HAS given up on the nomination.

Senator Clinton has directly told Senator Obama that she wants to be his vice presidential nominee

Which means only one thing about her current behavior. She is trying to blackmail Obama into giving her the VP by causing as much trouble as she can by sowing division and rancor.

It's time for them to go.

by Freespeechzone 2008-05-22 10:03AM | 0 recs
There's a huge downside

to being on a ticket with Obama.  In the first place, why would someone with her credentials run on a ticket BELOW a mostly empty suit?   It would be quite different the other way.  Obama could use some experience and training in the VP slot.  He'd be in a far better position to handle the presidency following 8 years as VP.  Also, in 2008 if Obama is the Dem nominee then he's going to lose, so that would make her lose, too.  Also she'd get blamed for the loss.  

by Montague 2008-05-22 10:09AM | 0 recs
Right.

by Lord Hadrian 2008-05-22 10:11AM | 0 recs
Todd, even the poll you quote

by Quinnipiac shows that there's not enthusiasm for having Clinton on the bill for VP. We'll see more and more of these come out, and while she's hovering in the 40-50% range as a potential VP, Obama doesn't even have to consider it until she breaks 60%, which may or may not ever happen.

by bookish 2008-05-22 10:10AM | 0 recs
in what reality

does it make sense for a group of delegates to force a VP choice on the nominee?

And would HRC be campaigning to win in 2008? Or to lose in 2008 to win in 2012?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-05-22 10:20AM | 0 recs
Having seen the Clintons bungle the campaign...

I wouldn't want either of them on the ticket.  And, given H. Clinton's sky high negatives only confirms that belief.

by lojasmo 2008-05-22 10:26AM | 0 recs
More &quot;throw the dog a bone&quot; meme

Last time I checked, Hillary was still campaigning (quite successfully) for the nomination --  given all the hot air and hand wringing to the contrary. I seriously doubt she asked for VP and I seriously doubt she would accept it if offered. Why should she when:

  1. she is still in the race for Democratic Presidential nominee;
  2. if she isn't the nominee, she can run again in 2012 after Obama gets a thumpin' in the general election.

Sometimes lessons need to be learned the hard way. Clinton made mistakes that Obama was able to capitalize on. However, she has grown as a candidate, wrestled Obama and the MSM to a tie, and is peaking now, albeit late. She is still the stronger candidate for the general election against McCain as the polls show over and over.  As for the party's lessons, they need a refresher course on the EV map. I bet they won't make the same mistake in 2012.

With that said, I'm still with Hill. As long as she is in, so am I. Winners never quit and quitters never win.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-22 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: More &quot;throw the dog a bone&quot; meme

Sorry for the double post. Had a browser blip.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-22 10:52AM | 0 recs
More &quot;throw the dog a bone&quot; meme

Last time I checked, Hillary was still campaigning (quite successfully) for the nomination --  given all the hot air and hand wringing to the contrary. I seriously doubt she asked for VP and I seriously doubt she would accept it if offered. Why should she when:

  1. she is still in the race for Democratic Presidential nominee;
  2. if she isn't the nominee, she can run again in 2012 after Obama gets a thumpin' in the general election.

Sometimes lessons need to be learned the hard way. Clinton made mistakes that Obama was able to capitalize on. However, she has grown as a candidate, wrestled Obama and the MSM to a tie, and is peaking now, albeit late. She is still the stronger candidate for the general election against McCain as the polls show over and over.  As for the party's lessons, they need a refresher course on the EV map. I bet they won't make the same mistake in 2012.

With that said, I'm still with Hill. As long as she is in, so am I. Winners never quit and quitters never win.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-22 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?
she doesn't want the VP, stop the bull**
if she does accept she would lose my family support and mine. She would lose her credibility so there's no way that would ever happen. Let this guy sink by himself and run independent.
by darlene25 2008-05-22 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

just the fact that we are having this discussion says it all. It is over!

by comingawakening 2008-05-22 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

just the fact that we are having this discussion says it all. It is over!

by comingawakening 2008-05-22 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

sorry about the sup

by comingawakening 2008-05-22 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Honestly if Obama refused to allow HRC on the ticket, there is NO WAY, I REPEAT NO WAY, that he would win the General Election.  If she wants it, She DESERVES to have it. Period.

by nzubechukwu 2008-05-22 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Obama cannot discount Hillary for VP.  She has to be asked.  Hillary is a great candidate who ran a poor campaign.  The Clintons would do everything they know of to win.  That would be the good thing.  The bad thing is Bill Clinton's baggage.  Maybe they could send him to the rural areas and let him live there.  LOL.

by Spanky 2008-05-22 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

What do you mean his baggage. He's the hero of the dem party, his numbers temporarily down because some ethnic solidarity but they'll bounce back, and the most admired and respected US politician in the world. He's got the kind  of baggage anyone in US politics would die for. I really wonder sometimes before people write comments like this do they stop for one nanosecond and apply a bit objectivity to what they are writing.

by ottovbvs 2008-05-22 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

Just lurked on over to TalkLeft where they had a conference call with the Clinton Campagin, they said:

Also have there been discussion of Clinton and Obama discussions. A flat denial of Al Giordano's reporting.

ruuuuroooh. what does it all mean??!!

by alyssa chaos 2008-05-22 10:53AM | 0 recs
Three ways of reading this

1.  HRC is further trying to 'rally the base' in her pursuit of the Democratic nomination.  THIS PLAYS DIRECTLY INTO HRC'S 'OBAMA IS AN ELITIST' meme.  If so, pathetic - AGAIN - on HRC.

Remember, HRC was ARROGANT (ooh...there's that word, arrogant that appears to only apply to BO) enough to say 'I would offer BO the VP slot' roundabout early March.

2.  HRC actually DOES want the VP slot and is trying to 'rally the base' into convincing the DNC and BO to accept her as VP.

3.  HRC's campaign 'misspoke' and she actually does want it...plain and simple and BO said 'no.'

If it is #2 or #3, if BO had any political savvy he SHOULD TAKE HRC AS VP IN A HEARTBEAT.

HRC's negatives are nothing too bad for a VP.  Hell, if Dan Quayle can be a VP for a winning ticket, then there's no way HRC's negatives could outweigh her positives.

HRC's positives

1.  A small, but fervent base.

  1.  A chance at unity for the party.
  2.  Big $ donors who are still around.
  3.  She would DESTROY the Rethug VP in any debate.
  4.  A VP debate with her in it would have HUGE #'s.
  5.  She's pretty slick on the stump.
  6.  The 'Star Appeal' of BO and HRC as a ticket would be unprecedented.  

I support either candidate in the GE, but support BO for the Democratic nomination.  HRC would be a killer VP and I would lose a lot of respect for BO's campaign if HRC did, indeed, ask for the VP slot and was rebuffed.

by yankeeinmemphis 2008-05-22 10:59AM | 0 recs
Obama cannot really deny Clinton the VP nomination

If she asked-simply because he is going to loose the Presidency if he does so. So I think this story is, pardon my French, ``b***''.

by ann0nymous 2008-05-22 11:16AM | 0 recs
Obama cannot really deny Clinton the VP nomination

If she asked-simply because he is going to loose the Presidency if he does so. So I think this story is, pardon my French, ``b***''.

by ann0nymous 2008-05-22 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

HRC should get the VP spot if she wants it.

She has brought over 17 million voters out - and may finish with more votes than Obama.  If the roles were reversed, and people said "we shouldn't put Obama on the ticket because of his affiliations with Rezko", that's about how Obama supporters sound right now.  Baggage?  Please...

by mikes101 2008-05-22 11:51AM | 0 recs
Why doesn't Hillary understand

that if she really and truly wants the VP slot, undermining Obama at every turn isn't the way to get it? As VP, she would have to work closely with Obama in an Obama administration. Do you think for a second that Obama is going to be excited about having a #2 who has a shown a knack for working against him every time the going gets rough?

Hillary is proving that she wouldn't be a team player in an Obama administration. That's a red flag. If she really wanted the #2 spot, she could have had it if she had either dropped out earlier, or campaigned on her merits without the slime of the kitchen sink strategy.

by s5 2008-05-22 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Why doesn't Hillary understand

Obama strategist David Axelrod recently said that, "the primary characteristic Mr. Obama would look for in a vice president was someone with whom he was extremely comfortable" (New York Observer, May 13th).  This doesn't sound too promising for Hillary.

But I have heard that Hillary is looking into her own VP....."Hillary Ready to Declare her VP Choice"
(A satirical look at just how crazy the situation has become.)  http://msa4.wordpress.com/

by Mitchell A 2008-05-22 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

now that this information is 'public' - if he does not offer it to her publicly - he will not win under any circumstances.

but i suspect that this info was 'leaked' by BO camp to gauge public opinion and see the hysteria on both sides it causes.  then when he does offer it to her, the onus will be on her.  that way if she either turns it down or takes it her supporters will feel appeased.

damn - if i am right - the BO is a tactical marvel.

by canadian gal 2008-05-22 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Does Hillary Want VP?

My guess is that she does want it, with an eye to Cheneyize Barack.  But a unity ticket will be necessary for Barack to win.

by Bob H 2008-05-22 02:43PM | 0 recs

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