McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

We always knew that Republicans were jerks, but they often do such a good job of mugging for the cameras that it's hard to get that story out to the public. Oh, come on, people say, do they really hate brown people and the poor and the gays and the disabled? Yeah, they do. But from Newt Gingrich to Rudi Giuliani, they also tend to hate on their wives, those lumps in the bed next to them, which I guess is just the natural consequence of being misogynist creeps. It's also an easy point of character reference for the body politic, which is perhaps why the press has so delicately refrained from pointing out what terrible spouses so many of these wingnuts really are.

And being a jerk in public to your spouse, humiliating them, the person who will put up with more crap from you than anyone in your life besides your parents, that's just beyond the pale.

In this, John McCain showed himself during his 1992 Senate campaign to be not an independent maverick, but a dyed-in-the-wool Republican woman-hater, fully in line with his cohorts. Netroots author Cliff Schecter got the goods in his upcoming book, "The Real McCain", and Raw Story has the sneak preview:

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

Can the nation really stand, after 8 years of Yosemite Bush, the reign of Colonel Tigh? Can we survive a guy so sensitive to criticism that he can't even handle a little teasing from the woman who's seen his back hair without viciously unloading on her in front of reporters and senior staff? How's he going to handle negotiations with foreign leaders? Ugh.

Anyway, for more pointed questions, Nicole Belle and Marcy Wheeler have you covered. I can roll off a blue streak from time to time, but a man talking like this to his wife in public brings up a lot of unpleasant memories for me and I'm sort of done writing about it for the evening.

Tags: Cindy McCain, cunt, John McCain, trollop (all tags)

Comments

137 Comments

Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

That's gonna leave a mark.

by johnnyappleseed 2008-04-07 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

yea its a terrible terrible thing to say, but it id argue this wasnt a legitimate news story in 1992 nor is it one now.

by aaaa05 2008-04-07 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

The larger story is McCain's temper, which should be a concern.

by LandStander 2008-04-07 03:16PM | 0 recs
It speaks to his character as well

That, my friends, is textbook misogyny.

by bookish 2008-04-07 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: It speaks to his character as well

If true, that trumps anything that has been said so far in this campaign. I'm speechless. If this is what he would say about his wife, I can't imagine what his temperament would be like as POTUS.

by commoncents 2008-04-08 12:39PM | 0 recs
No, in this case it's personal...

I'm not sure I would single out one party for its treatment of wives and women in general in a personal and family context.  JFK was a terrible husband, Reagan was a superlative one.  For that matter, the Bushes seem to have a good marriage and W seems pretty respectful of women, although his policies, obviously, do tremendous damage.  Cheney, monster that he is, talks lovingly and respectfully of his gay daughter.  Bill Clinton is not, either, my model of a respectful husband, John Kerry certainly is.  Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were, and so on and so on.  It just is not a party thing.

I remember when Dan Quayle, yes that yo-yo, was asked about his daughter having an abortion and this man, who was as far right and politically sexist as you can get answered this: I would counsel her and talk to her and support her on whatever decision she made.  People can be rotten on the issues and decent in the privacy of their families, and vice versa.

by mady 2008-04-07 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: No, in this case it's personal...

Oh, and even with respect to disability legislation, you just can't lump all Republicans together.  Bob Dole, because of his personal experiences, was one of the prime movers in getting the ADA done.  I need to add, and I am a very left of center Democrat, that if we are ever going to address the important issues in a meaningful way, we need to at least attempt to forge connections to the other party where they may, may, exist, and not hunt for stereotypes that divide us.

http://www.abilitymagazine.com/dole_inte rview.html

by mady 2008-04-07 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

It will be interesting to see if any non-anonymous sources that heard him will come forward.  This is a pretty damning quote, but it will be easy for him to deny it if people aren't even willing to admit that they heard it.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-07 03:19PM | 0 recs
I heard that he would abuse her

I think the Arizona Republic(is that the name of the newspaper?) was trying to get police reports released from numerous calls to their house regarding domestic violence.  Is anyone surprised? Look at the poor thing.

by regina1983 2008-04-07 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: I heard that he would abuse her

Look at the poor thing.

Sorry...what do you mean?

by freedom78 2008-04-07 10:14PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

...Wow. If anyone thought of letting McCain in office to support women's rights, maybe they should look at that.

No wonder he supposedly cheated on her. What a lack of respect.

by vcalzone 2008-04-07 03:21PM | 0 recs
this story is NOT validated

and I don't believe it.  It seems very unlikely and even if true it was 1992.

What is real is Obama's insulting Clinton time after time in public, not on policy but on gender.  His wife does it too. It is now, it is documented and it is on video in many cases.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 08:40AM | 0 recs
Are you serious?

You are excusing this contemptuous language from McCain and complaining about some unknown perceived insult to Hillary Clinton. Sorry but as a woman, I am puzzled. I don't know if it is true. I have often wondered what the Bush team meant in 2000 when they spoke of McCain as lacking the temperament to be president. If this is true, this is both offensive and over the line.

If you choose to vote for him knowing this, please don't pretend that it is not absolutely offensive.

by commoncents 2008-04-08 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

 Horrible.

 What is a trollop?  Is that a term from the days of McCain's youth in the nineteenth century?

by cilerder86 2008-04-07 03:24PM | 0 recs
Didn't you know that McCain clerked . . .

for Charles Dickens?  

by drmark 2008-04-07 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

It's weird. He goes from sounding like Margaret Dumont in a MGM melodrama, to sounding like a drunken sailor getting thrown out a bar.

And I doubt misogyny even begins to cover the psychological scars of a man who ditched his crippled wife to marry a trophy wife with a massive trust fund and political connections. An acquaintance in DC once pointed out that Chris Matthews was a fairly reasonable, lucid and insightful columnist for years. Then his wife became a high paycheck lead newsanchor in DC, and he morphed into the cable news nightmare we too often see before us.

by BlueinColorado 2008-04-07 03:36PM | 0 recs
according to the last definition on urban

dictionary, it is "a promiscuous, preferably female horse".

by minnesotaryan 2008-04-07 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

What is a trollop?  Is that a term from the days of McCain's youth in the nineteenth century?

You made me laugh out loud before bedtime.  Two points.

by Denny Crane 2008-04-07 10:12PM | 0 recs
McCain has a terrible temper

Years ago I was listening to a defense appropriations committee hearing on C-Span. McCain's behavior was inappropriate. He reamed out the general who was testifying and lacked anything approaching appropriate demeanor, The issue was relatively minor.

I doubt this particular story will have legs but hopefully McCain's long and consistent history of behaving with the lack of a balanced temperament will become a campaign issue . . .  as it should. Remember, up until fairly recently McCain had a long history in the Senate without a single piece of major legislation to his name. He's truly a cowboy. I've never thought he was an appropriate candidate for Pres.

by drmark 2008-04-07 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I think using the "c" word is especially heinous, but this is an issue between McCain and his wife.  If she allows him to talk that way to her then that is her choice to make.  I would smack the shit out of anyone who called me the "c" word though.

by JustJennifer 2008-04-07 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Really? Because that speaks to the kind of person who says it, too. This is NOT something between him and his wife, this is a huge red flag. If you were thinking of taking a job and heard your potential boss calling his wife that, would you just wave it off? If you were hiring someone and they said that, would you welcome them aboard?

John McCain's strength is in his character and good-natured personality, and this kind of thing puts all of that to bed.

by vcalzone 2008-04-07 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I am reluctant to comment on things that happen between married people.  If he talked that way to an employee/volunteer/stranger.. hell yeah that is inappropriate.  Do I consider that type of talk to be abusive toward the spouse?  Yes, of course.  Do I think it is my place to police that type of behavior between married people?  Well, I can have an opinion about it for sure - and let me be straight I would never vote for John McCain and frankly the type of people who will won't care if he called his wife a cunt.  I guess my point is what goes on in a marriage is between the husband and wife and while I think Cindy McCain is an idiot if she lets her husband talk to her that way I feel like it is her choice if she does.  People only treat you like shit if you let them.

by JustJennifer 2008-04-07 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

"People only treat you like shit if you let them."

I think the point is that if McCain becomes president he'll have the opportunity and power to treat lots more people like shit.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-04-07 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I guess my point is what goes on in a marriage is between the husband and wife and while I think Cindy McCain is an idiot if she lets her husband talk to her that way I feel like it is her choice if she does.  People only treat you like shit if you let them.

Sorry Jennifer, but you have alot to learn about domestic violence and verbal/emotional abuse.  your statement is patently untrue.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-04-07 05:04PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Uh, ok.  I worked in a domestic violence shelter for 4 years.  I understand the dynamics of domestic violence better than most.  Cindy McCain, and Cindy alone, is the only one who can put a stop to abusive behavior from her husband.  

by JustJennifer 2008-04-08 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Of course marital rape and abuse is much more heinous than this, so I don't mean to compare them at all, but just the idea about not interfering in what goes on in marriage kind of reminds me of the old days when noone helped wives if their husbands did things, like beat them, inside of marriage. Now, there is nothing to do about this, but it is a form of abuse, and seems different to me than one or the other having an affair.  Sexual matters between husbands and wives like that should be private,they are basically equally available to both partners, but verbal abuse in public of his wife, gives us an idea of  McCains character. Someone who might be called upon to legislate on womans issues or sign bills, or put forth supreme court justices that affect womens lives, should at least be someone who respects women and his own wife as an equal and doesn't degrade her directly in public.

by Scotch 2008-04-07 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

It speaks to a lot of things, IMO. A lack of control, horrible temper, and bad judgment to start. And, yeah, almost certainly a lot of really scary attitudes towards women.

Yuck.

by OtherLisa 2008-04-07 10:33PM | 0 recs
and sexism

but we have no idea if the story is true and I kind of doubt it is.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Jeesh people, of course you should intervene if someone is getting hurt.  I guess I should have clarified by saying unless you have evidence that a law is being broken (and last time I heard talking shit to your spouse isn't against the law, just really disrespectful) then I feel jumping in is not my place.  There are a ton of spouses who are emotionally/verbally abusive only.. I was married to one for 7 years.  No one was going to make him stop - except me.  Eventually I did by divorcing him.

by JustJennifer 2008-04-08 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I don't think it is true that "the type of people who would" vote for McCain won't care that he called his wife the c-word.  That certainly might be true of a subset of people who would vote for McCain, but remember that a large number of non-wingnuts are probably still under the media illusion of what a great guy McCain is, and would probably not be cool with this kind of behavior.  If the crazies alone could win the election for McCain, we should all just give up now, but fortunately he has to appeal to "middle America."  

by ashriver 2008-04-07 11:05PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

The guy is running for an office that puts his finger on "the button".  He dropped a C bomb on his wife in front of members of the media.  Never mind, if possible, the despicable attitude towards the value of a woman (one he's supposed to love) and the pattern of self serving use of women in his personal life; it is further evidence that the man's temper leads him to imprudence.  Remember finger, button.

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran...

by lockewasright 2008-04-07 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I agree - the guy is a hothead and probably not a very nice person in general.  

by JustJennifer 2008-04-08 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

In McCain' defense, his wife has fared far better than Colonel Tigh's.

by The Animal 2008-04-07 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Of course we now know that Tigh has been a cylon traitor all along.

Did anyone else notice that this diary is tagged cunt?  I was interested to see what a tag search would turn up, but this is the only diary so tagged.

Well, we still got some primary season to go, so we'll see.  

by Winston Smith 2008-04-07 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Very few things on blogs make me LOL, but McCain as Tigh had me howling.

It's something I had never noticed before, but the moment I read it, the full force of that semblance hit me at once.

by Gimmeliberty 2008-04-07 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I'm new to BSG, but the McCain resemblance struck me right away. (Maybe it's because I'm new to it -- with McCain prominent in the news.)

by mhojo 2008-04-07 04:58PM | 0 recs
A Senator said it to his wife in public

... so, while I didn't consider the quote remotely appropriate reading, and iirc this is the only time in my many years of blogging that I've used that word, I guess it's fair game for discussion.

The party that gave us the Foley scandal (we all had to talk about sleazy txt msgs to teens), the Craig scandal (we all now know way too much about anonymous gay sex foot tapping signals), the Vitter scandal (hookers and diapers), now yields this.

I couldn't make this stuff up and am pretty grossed out by all the things these people have subjected me to knowing about that I'd rather not. And I'm no square, either, but what's the point of having an alternative media if we continue not talking about all the things that the establishment press is too squeamish to talk about?

by Natasha Chart 2008-04-07 09:26PM | 0 recs
Re: A Senator said it to his wife in public

I thought it was a courageous editorial decision.  It wasn't a criticism.  It made me laugh when I considered the possibility that that there might be another diary so tagged.  

by Winston Smith 2008-04-07 09:54PM | 0 recs
For the love of all good things

I can only hope that this incident haunts the nightmares of every current Clinton supporter who has ever said, or even thought, of voting for McCain should Obama get the nomination, until that thought perish the desperately needed death it so deserves.

Just... wow.

by kyle in philly 2008-04-07 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: For the love of all good things

and, to be fair, any Obama supporter as well...

by minnesotaryan 2008-04-07 05:41PM | 0 recs
From both your lips

... to gods' ears.

by Natasha Chart 2008-04-07 09:40PM | 0 recs
There will be MUCH more
This is the tip of the iceberg, so Obama and Hillary supporters need to chill out with concerns that the other will lose the GE. McCain will fare worse than Dole.
by Veteran75 2008-04-07 03:37PM | 0 recs
Sorry. This is a non story.
Facts:
   1. Reporters do not use the condition of anonymity to help other reporters. How curious that these two reporters will not write their own story and take credit for it.
   2. The story is 16 years old. Something smells a bit like dead fish Let's  see. Since then McCain ran for the Senate two more times and presidency once. Come on folks. We've got more serious work to do in this election.
by joliepoint 2008-04-07 03:49PM | 0 recs
What's that old story about LBJ

LBJ was in a tighter race for the Senate one year than he was comfortable with. So he instructed his campaign strategist to spread a story that his opponent - him being a rural type - had carnal knowledge of farm animals.

His strategist replied to LBJ (and I'm paraphrasing): "you can't possibly want me to go out and call candidate so-and-so a goat fucker, no one will believe it"; to which LBJ responds: "I know, but we'll make the son-of-a-bitch deny it".

The c-word is a third rail kind of thing with women. Even if it didn't happen, if McCain has to go out there and deny that it happened he still takes a big hit.  

If he used the term in a serious tone, and one of the reporters goes on record, this is a body blow to McCain.

If you are a Republican, you can call a Democrat a baby killer, a socialist or an asshole, but if you call your wife a "c-word", man that is a flat out something that you might never recover from. The  churchgoers that make up the base of the Republican party would never forgive something like that, not to mention the resounding thumping Independent women would give you.

by johnnyappleseed 2008-04-07 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I have two comments:

1. I don't think that McCain treats women any worse than he treats men, though I could be wrong.

2. I love, love, love that the tags on this diary are "John McCain, Cindy McCain, trollop, cunt." Maybe you should throw in "baldie, pill-popping junkie, old, dick."

by alvernon 2008-04-07 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Yeah, that tag brought me up short too. I guess I'm old fashioned.

by BlueinColorado 2008-04-07 03:57PM | 0 recs
Not that I like McCain, but
it sounds like he was joking around.
Old married folks say things that sound like they're ready to tear each other's lungs out, when they're actually just joshin'.
by blobert 2008-04-07 03:52PM | 0 recs
just joking?

This is what my wife thought, too.  I admit that I occasionally call her the c-word as a joke, and she understands that it is just a joke.  But I would never do that in front of people, if for no other reason than not wanting people to think I'm serious.

Besides, you can only make fun of your spouse for things that aren't true. Cindy McCain does slather on the makeup, so that "joke" would hit too close to home. It's like making a joke about her sagging boobs or something.

Of course, she bears some blame in this, as well. Surely she knew that making fun of her husband for going bald would unman him in front of reporters and employees. Again, a little too close to home.

by alvernon 2008-04-07 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: just joking?

Unman him?  Kidding someone about being obviously balding is the same as calling someone, your wife, a cunt in public?  That is about as obnoxious of a statement as is possible and I bet you don't get why.

by Scotch 2008-04-07 05:04PM | 0 recs
Re: just joking?

Unman him?  Well, how?  Do you think John Wayne (or rather the John Wayne character) would care if a woman commented on his lack of hair?  He would consider such a concern about his own appearance as sissified.  Men who are really secure about their own masculinity don't react the way McCain did.

by oldbattleaxe 2008-04-08 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: just joking?

I suppose what I am trying to say is that if a mild teasing remark like that can threaten to unman him, there wasn't much man there to begin with.

by oldbattleaxe 2008-04-08 05:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Not that I like McCain, but

Oh yeah, right.  He called her the cword in front of other people, and she thought it was hilarious.  Maybe I don't get the joke, and that's why I don't think it's hilarious.

Unbelievable.

by Scotch 2008-04-07 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that I like McCain, but

Dude, I'm not the one who thought it was a joke! I thought he was being mean. There is no equivalence between being called bald and being called the c-word.

I'm only saying that he didn't drop it out of nowhere. She insulted him in front of reporters. That doesn't justify it, but it's not right to give him all the blame and ignore the fact that she provoked him, even if unintentionally.

Imagine he had said to her, "Hmm, your pantsuits are getting pretty tight these days, have you been gaining weight?" Then she says, "At least I'm not going bald, you flyboy cocksucker!"  Would you say that John is totally blameless in that scenario? If not, why not the reverse?

by alvernon 2008-04-07 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that I like McCain, but

There are men who are sensitive about baldness, but a lot of others aren't.  In fact most of the ones I run into, arent and lots of men shave their heads and are bald on purpose.  So I don't see the comparison.  It might be compared to him pointing out a little grey in her temples.  And no, I don't think there is any or would be any blame on the part of either that would warrent anything like what he said.  

I'm not a dude, by the way.  

by Scotch 2008-04-07 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that I like McCain, but

Obviously McCain is one of the people who is sensitive about going bald. It is a not insignificant number of men, if the number of expensive hair loss treatments on the market is any indication.

Chances are, when you are married to someone way older than you for a dozen years, you know if he is one of the sensitive types.  When you are an attractive 38-year-old woman and your husband is 56, common sense dictates that you might be aware.  Of course, she was whacked out on drugs at the time, so maybe that's what caused it.

The point stands: she didn't deserve the lashing she got, but she embarrassed him and that is why he said that to his wife, as opposed to, "Wow, that Claire Sargent is a real c-word."

by alvernon 2008-04-07 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that I like McCain, but

Still no excuse.  That word is about the ugliest thing you could call a woman, especially your wife.  If he is that sensitive about his age, and looks, he needs to get some help and not take it out on people around him.

by Scotch 2008-04-07 08:04PM | 0 recs
Speak for yourself

Not in my house.  There are other ways to have fun, and mean language isn't included in the contract.

by susie 2008-04-07 10:07PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

To think that women would be so crazy enough to cross over and vote for him over Obama is mind boggling.

by KathyM 2008-04-07 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

It's amazing how silent it get's from the most vocal Clinton supporters when there are stories about McCain.

Hello? Is anyone there?

by regina1983 2008-04-07 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I was just thinkin' the same thing.

by freedom78 2008-04-07 10:21PM | 0 recs
why?

because if this happened, which I doubt, the only difference is that his language is more colorful.  
Obama attacks Clinton over and over with sexist language and ideas and the fact that he doesn't use the word cunt doesn't excuse him.

I have said that if we have to have a sexist asshole in the white-house I would rather it be a republican.  I am done voting for sexist male democrats.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
Can I assume..a comment from those who expressed outrage against RR's comments?
Nope..after all..McCain is not running in the Dem Primary..
Flea? Texdarlin'?...any other HRC supporter who has posted here regarding sexist outrage.
I forgot...your enemy is not McCain..jist Obama and us Obababots...
Hey...is it ok that McCain can call his wife a cunt...as long as it is not directed to HRC?
Where is the HRC woman outrage?
Hey
joliepoint...ya wanna defend McCain?
This is the wrong place...
by nogo war 2008-04-07 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
Look around you. I am a Clinton supporter and find this dispicable.  I don't get your point.  Why would anyone defend McCain for saying this?
Anyone who would do this is a piece of shit, I don't care what party they are in.
by Scotch 2008-04-07 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Well way to be consistent, Scotch!  That reads a little sarcastically, but I definitely mean it.

by minnesotaryan 2008-04-07 05:50PM | 0 recs
this story is in no way solid
there are no real sources.  
But let me speak real slow... Obama has been sexist in his language and imagery in his campaign against Clinton.  That is inexcusable.  I will not vote for that in a democrat ever again.  Obama is another entitled male who thinks he can win my vote because McCain is supposedly worse?  Nope, he has used sexism and exploited racism and that is not tolerable to me from a democrat.
by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 08:59AM | 0 recs
not that I don't believe he's an asshole

But someone using "trollop" and "cunt" in the same sentence doesn't have the ring of truth for me. Who says "trollop" anyway?

The fact that the media painted Dean to be a raving lunatic and continue to cover for McCain's bad temper is one of the biggest indictments of DC journalist culture.

by desmoinesdem 2008-04-07 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

"it sounds like he was joking around."
So I can call HRC a cunt as long as I am just joking around?
No it is not ok jist from husbands. Yep women know when they are called a cunt by their husband it is just a joke..
Thank you blobert for your insight...
by nogo war 2008-04-07 04:06PM | 0 recs
I'd be carefull with this unless we can prove...

... it's true.  It could be a trap.  

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-04-07 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: I'd be carefull with this unless we can prove.

I agree.  We certainly don't want to set a precedent of using "anonymous reporters" as our evidence.  If we do, then where's our moral high ground the next time the GOP cites three anonymous reporters who saw Obama and Clinton at a flag-burning party?

by ashriver 2008-04-07 11:15PM | 0 recs
Can't believe it

This sounds so outrageous I can't believe it to be true. Calling your wife that?!? I can't imagine ever looking my wife in the eye again if those words came outta my mouth.

by hnic357 2008-04-07 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: I believe it

And if my husband ever called me the "c" word, he wouldn't have eyes anymore, nor would he be my husband.  

And putting the blame on Cindy McCain is blaming her for his sexism.  

by NeciVelez 2008-04-07 04:41PM | 0 recs
kind of like Michelle Obama blaming

Hillary for Bill cheating on her and going to to say that makes her unqualified to be president?  Only with Michelle it is on video and with McCain we have an non story without a source that supposedly happened in 1992.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: kind of like Michelle Obama blaming

could you cite a source for that please?

If the McCain story is true - though given his known temper and other documented quotes from him, it could be.

I don't think Bill's infidelity is the same situation - Cindy McCain isn't running for a co-presidency, Bill seems to be.  

And I do hope Hillary, and Chelsea got therapy to deal with that episode in their family.  I can't walk in her shoes I know. If it was me - he would have been kicked out of my life.  

Frankly I think Hillary does better without him.  

by NeciVelez 2008-04-08 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Can't believe it

True or not in this case; I'm periodically stunned by how much shit these politicians' wives routinely put up with. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get along well with a woman who could put up with that much.

by mhojo 2008-04-07 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
"Of course, she bears some blame in this, as well."
Any of you HRC supporters want to respond to this insight from alvernon?
..or do you agree with this?
by nogo war 2008-04-07 04:12PM | 0 recs
I'm a Clinton supporter

I bet you can figure out what I think of an idiotic remark like that from the post. At least I'd hope so.

by Natasha Chart 2008-04-07 09:44PM | 0 recs
like I said

Michelle Obama blames Hillary for Bill cheating on her and says it makes her unqualified to be president.  Obama says Hillary cries to much to be president.  Want to address that?

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
oh yeah alvernon
 "I admit that I occasionally call her the c-word as a joke"
I hope you do this in front of your children...hey our kids love a joke...
by nogo war 2008-04-07 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

No, I don't do it in front of anyone, but if you like I can do it in front of your children, seeing as how they enjoy a joke. I'd even be happy to call you the c-word, if you think they would like that.

If you are the kind of person who kids around in such a manner -- and it is clear that you are not -- you learn that it works only when you say something so outrageous or ridiculous that it can't possibly be true. I would never use the c-word in anger, or even as a general description of someone. I rarely say it at all, and I am a foul-mouthed bastard. If I do say it, it's because I'm being ironic.

Children, and you, aren't able to grasp that, which is why I pick my moments.

by alvernon 2008-04-07 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

You aren't John McCain, and your wife probably isn't Cindy McCain. Perhaps there are some conservative wives that feel comfortable being called such words, but I've never met any. Well, maybe Ann Coulter.

by vcalzone 2008-04-07 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

This is information from the commenter above  that I'd rather not have.

by susie 2008-04-07 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I wouldn't presume to talk down about someone else's marriage.  Maybe alvernon's wife calls him something seemingly horrible, too.  Some people have that sort of humor.  The real question isn't one of what's said but of intent.  If they're just joking, and both are ok with it, what's the big deal?    

by freedom78 2008-04-07 10:26PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain

You had to go back 16 years digging up dirt.  Sounds like something a Republican would do.  Do you want to become the "progressive" version of Ken Starr?

by moevaughn 2008-04-07 04:40PM | 0 recs
Wrong!

A republican would go back 16 years to dig up dirt on a Democrat...McCain is a republican.  Anything we dig up on him is fair game.

by GFORD 2008-04-07 05:51PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
you are thee person who wrote
"I admit that I occasionally call her the c-word as a joke"
and no I do not kid around with my wife in such a manner..
Yep...women have no problem being called a cunt..after all it is just irony..
..oh what is the irony in calling your wife a cunt?
by nogo war 2008-04-07 04:44PM | 0 recs
stop it

you are being silly now.  the man said he says it as a joke.  It's wouldn't be funny to me, but even I can understand what he is saying.  Frankly the rest is none of your business.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides
Hey Moe...
So you don't believe that Republicans will go after Obama from the day he was born?
by nogo war 2008-04-07 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

We need to go after McCain, but we need to do it with credible information.  If we stoop to the same standards of poor argumentation and evidence that the GOP uses, then what reason does someone new to the scene have to believe progressives over the GOP?    I think the reason the blogosphere favors progressives over conservatives is because at some level most people are able to recognize what good evidence and good arguments are.  If we throw all that away to try to get in cheap shots at the opposition we'll lose in the long run.

by ashriver 2008-04-07 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

of course they will.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

The advertisement right below your article is so ironic. How can women be taken seriously, and not be called cunts when their bodies are on display constantly encouraging people to think of us that way.  

Nevertheless, someone who does this to his own wife in public can't be far from a slip under stress in the GE.  He is all nice and calm now, but under stress his kind of guy can't stop the abuse of others whether it be some woman in the crowd, or a member of the press, etc.  It's just that women are such an easy target, and there are so many ways available to abuse them, you can hardly help yourself.  Right John?

by Scotch 2008-04-07 04:54PM | 0 recs
I sure see a lot of McCain

apologists here who claim to be Hillary supporters.  What's up with that?

It's time we scrape the teflon off McCain and show what's really underneath.  Let the games begin!

by GFORD 2008-04-07 05:12PM | 0 recs
I sure see a lot of sexism apologists

who are Obama supporters with a major double standard.  What's up with that?

The point is that this story doesn't ring true and it is not realizably sourced.  Trying to make a big deal of it seems like a waste of time and frankly, hypocrisy.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

If true, this wouldn't be a sign of sexism -- this would be a red flag for verbal and emotional abuse.      Not to suggest McCain hasn't made sexist remarks but this could be much bigger and much worse.  He may very well be crazier than a shithouse rat.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-04-07 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

As a connoisseur of colorful phrases, might I inquire as to what makes a shithouse rat crazy?

And don't say "Nam."

by freedom78 2008-04-07 10:28PM | 0 recs
Nam.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

by Elsinora 2008-04-07 11:03PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I dunno.  My understanding is he wasn't exactly on track to become another admiral before he was captured.  The expectation to fill Dad's and Grandpa's shoes when all you want to do is find chicks and drive fast?

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-04-08 01:26AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I'd be inclined to not brush this off as untrue.  Earlier in the campaign, a woman in one of McCains audiences called Hillary something similar, I can't remember exactly what.  McCain did nothing but smile and joke about it.

by Scotch 2008-04-07 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I believe the words were, "How do we beat the bitch?"

by vcalzone 2008-04-07 05:57PM | 0 recs
Abusive?

I don't know if this account is true, but add that to his temper and he is a verbal abuser.  She's got the money, if I were here I'd have left his grouchy ass.

by venavena 2008-04-07 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Well, the way the media is trying to control this election, covering up important info and making up others and name calling and belittling, it may not be if we can handle it, but it may be what we're going to get, because too many folks have not let the media know we don't take to their biased Big Corporate interest selection.  

The people are supposed to get the facts and choose.  But that's not what we have.  This election is worse than 04, and on par with the Bush v Gore.  So does that mean, we can expect this same bias and distorting...will they lower themselves to demean the men and make up new stories about their bodies, their skin, their looks, their whining, their condescending manners, their know it all behavior?

You can't have it both ways.

by LindaSFNM 2008-04-07 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Abuse is abuse is abuse...old abuse new abuse it's still the same...you can't cover it up with what word it is or what the action is....it's abuse.

Probably needs some looking into just the same. Not something you would want to read about a presnut candidate. Pretty shocking, at first it set me back but then, young people say anything to each other now-days, they would probably just laugh and call it  Crabby old culture warriors or something similar.

by ricochet 2008-04-07 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

And, calling his wife a c__t?!  Wow!  Maybe I'm a prude, but such characterization to any woman, especially one I love, is inconceivable to me.  For me, that would be the equivalent of three strikes.  But, I never get to that consideration, as I am already diametrically opposed to McCain on so many levels and for so many reasons.

by tomthroop 2008-04-07 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

If this story's true, it's awful for McCain.

But I wouldn't be so sure it's true.  It's leaked from an upcoming book by a DNC party hack.  Would you believe it if something like this had been leaked about Obama from a book by a Heritage Foundation, NRO, RNC kinda guy?  I wouldn't.

by Koan 2008-04-07 06:40PM | 0 recs
Ridiculous

Schecter does his homework. He knows what the consequences are otherwise and he's got a long history of being credible.

And you know what? It'd really suck if all the thanks someone gets for scrounging for years to spread progressive messages and shine a light on Republican misdeeds is to get called a hack.

by Natasha Chart 2008-04-07 09:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Ridiculous

No, Schecter is a dick. He is our dick, but he is a dick, nonetheless. "Homework" would include a time, a place and a name or 2 of the "witnesses" to this supposed event.

I call bullshit.

by danfromny 2008-04-08 06:39AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Maybe its just a term of endearment for his wife. Kinda like:

Sweetie-Pie
Snookums
Honey Bunch
Cunty Trollop
Darling Dearest
Republican

Think you all need to stop being so cynical.

by bigdaddy 2008-04-07 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

It sounds as though there's a pre-election book out there waiting to be written titled " McCain's Temper", detailing these outbursts, including the ones on the Senate floor.

by susie 2008-04-07 10:20PM | 0 recs
Update: "McCain" book already written

Looks like Cliff Schecter has already done the work with "The Real McCain". See Breaking Blue.

by susie 2008-04-08 11:33AM | 0 recs
I find the hypocrisy on this issue very telling.

"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt".  Does the outrage over this comment strike anyone as, well, unusual?  Oh, yes, now I see - since it's a Republican saying it, it really is sexist and horrible...

I for one have seen comments just as misogynist, just as out-of bounds, attacking Hillary and her supporters. To have read countless comments, on a progressive blog, no less, saying that the "Big Fucking Whore" comments needed only to be put into proper context...  Rhodes' comments are only the latest in a litany of misogyny in the "liberal" blogosphere.  

Honestly, this community of Obama supporters will forgive anything, will sell out every last progressive value, as long as Obama gets the nomination.  No, no, you don't understand, Wright and Rhodes, nothing they've said is offensive or even untrue - perhaps you have never heard of the expression speaking truth to power?

It has taken months of absorbing the brunt of all this vicious hostility for me to realize that I am completely out of touch with what passes for "liberal" values anymore.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 05:14AM | 0 recs
Yes, very telling indeed

Oh, ok. See I was under the impression that strong words are often found in politics and have been for decades.

But that saying something like that about your loved ones said something really nasty about your personality.

What I like and hate at the same time is how all of you seem willing to do backflips to keep hating Obama more than McCain. Makes me sick.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 05:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

You prove my point about the moral relativism employed here. Of course McCain is a nasty schmuck, and what he said is disgusting. He doesn't deserve to be president, and I will not vote for him.  But there is no difference, none, in the misogyny expressed by Randi Rhodes calling Hillary and Gerry Ferraro  "Fucking Whores" and what McCain said.  Fucking Whores is not political speech.  It is hateful, anti-woman trash, and that you are parsing this to within an inch of its life proves my point exactly.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

And it would have been completely okay for them to call them another expletive? What about when they call other (male) politicians whores for accepting money? Oh, ok, right, Randi Rhodes is a misogynist but John McCain is being unfairly maligned. That makes total sense.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

For the record, I think what Randi Rhodes said was completely inappropriate, and I'm pretty sure I'm on record here as saying so. A LOT of Obama supporters are. And yet here you are defending McCain for a word meant to be far more denigrating in a context that is a thousand times worse.

You shame your cause.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

Are you even reading what I've written?  Exactly what is your axe to grind on this?

Where did I say McCain was being unfairly maligned?  He gets the criticism he richly deserves. What I am saying is that there should be consistency, and there simply isn't.  They are both misogynist statements.  Both should be repudiated, but the fact is that they are not is where the hypocrisy lies.  

And frankly I have never heard anyone call another man, politician or not, a whore, but that is an argument for another day.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

Yes, you did, and I think I was speaking more about the Clinton supporters I see posting about misogyny all the time (including Randi Rhodes) that have said nothing.

If Obama called Michelle a cunt (even if just in 92), we would see a diary at the top of the rec list. When McCain does it, nobody can be bothered.

But since we agree both instances are unacceptable, we agree. I never defended Randi Rhodes. Or anyone else who has called Clinton a derogatory word.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

I meant to apologize too, but didn't. I'm sorry for claiming you said something you didn't.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, very telling indeed

Thanks.  If your name calzone implies that you are italian, then mi dispiace, anche, il mio amico.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 10:13AM | 0 recs
Just one more...

And what I have realized from posting here is that some people would sell out their ideals and dreams in a heartbeat lest they feel offended. Always wondered where the Anti-PC crowd got those notions of feeling oppressed all the time. Now I know.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 05:40AM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

What in the fuck does this have to do with selling out progressive values?

McCain made (reportedly) a disgusting and reprehensible comment to his wife, in public, and your only response is "But Obama-supporters blog commenters said meaner things!" -- ugh. You make me weep for reason.

What is truly telling, by the way, is that you would indeed sell out your fellow progressive Democrats in order to score a cheap victim point for your gal. For the record, my progressive value system remains wholly intact, and I find the occasional case of misogyny that crops up online to be disgusting, each and every time.

This is, however, the fucking internet. And some anonymous online dickhead is not running for the position of leader of the free world.  But we know who is.

by kyle in philly 2008-04-08 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

They need to keep McCain as strong as possible for the long-shot short term gain of Clinton trying to convince the SDs that he is such a threat that we cannot take a "chance" on Obama.  Everything else is second to that.

by Wes 2008-04-08 07:49AM | 0 recs
Obama himself

has been a sexist asshole.  His language is not as colorful as McCain's alleged language, but what he said about Hillary and what his wife has said is more offensive to me because he used that and false claims of racism to win a primary in the democratic party.  So spare me.  Sabrina is exactly right.  Either sexism is wrong or it is not and the fact that it is Rhodes or some anonymous person on a blog doesn't matter.

In fact there you go being a sexist by calling Clinton a victim just because someone makes the very real point that calling her a fucking whore is sexist.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-08 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama himself

WHAT THE HELL?!

NOW you're going to play the gender roles card? After Hillary has done nothing but play herself off as a victim of male oppression for the past two weeks?

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama himself

I didn't call Hillary a victim. She's a public figure, and quite the successful one at that: as such, she can handle some two bit jerk calling her a nasty name.

This story about McCain is not about some two bit jerk calling someone a nasty name. It's about near on fucking spousal abuse, and has fuck-all to do with whether or not someone, somewhere, said something sexist and repulsive about your favorite for the nomination.

by kyle in philly 2008-04-08 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

You're right.  The fight against sexism is not part of the progressive agenda.  Let me make myself useful and go collate your position papers and make you some coffee.

Second, I make you "weep for reason" (?) by saying "Obama supporters said meaner things?"  No, actually, I said they were equally offensive, no better, no worse.

If eradicating sexism is not part of the progressive agenda, then I sure didn't get the memo, but I am getting it now.  Loud and clear.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

Huh?

I have made no suggestion that feminism is not part of the progressive agenda: none whatsoever. So to that extent, I'd appreciate if you'd retract your own glib suggestions.

What I'm struggling to understand is what in the hell this has to do with Obama in the first place. So why not, instead of becoming a dismissive jerk, help me to understand your point?

Randy Rhodes called Clinton a whore?  Well, guess what!  Randy Rhodes should lose her fucking job, and that's my A+ OPINION.

Oh, I get it! YOU HEARD SOMEONE DEFEND HER COMMENTS. And: THAT SOMEONE IS AN OBAMA SUPPORTER.

Therefore, any horror that any Obama supporter, anywhere, might express over this report on McCain's public ABUSE of his wife indicates a "selling out of progressive values."

Is that right? A decent summary of your argument?

by kyle in philly 2008-04-08 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

"What in the fuck does this have to do with selling out progressive values?" was your very first line in your initial post.  I did my best to address that question. Fighting sexism has everything to do with progressive values, and that was the central issue in my post.

There were over 3,000 supportive comments defending Randi Rhodes on HuffPost. I have a friend who works at Air America, and I am sorry to say, very few "progressives", by contrast, have come forward to denounce Rhodes.  What does that say about this community?  

Call it glib if you like. But calling me a jerk is a pretty uncharitable comment.  As long as that makes you feel good.

by Sabrina Duncan 2008-04-08 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: the hypocrisy

What does it say about what community?

by kyle in philly 2008-04-08 03:51PM | 0 recs
Rawstory?

Sorry, I am no McCain fan, but I do not, for one second, believe this story.

by danfromny 2008-04-08 06:17AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Baloney...I dont believe the story and if its true why hide behind anonymity? Anyone who has a girlfriend or wife knows if you actually said that, you would get your ass kicked right than and there. This story is bullshit....plain and simple....just as the Obama refuses to pledge allegience is bullshit......this should not have been worthy of a post and only serves to degrade the credibility of this blog....

by adb67 2008-04-08 06:22AM | 0 recs
You insulted my wife

I am a Democratic activist.  I have spent hundreds of hours during this campaign season for my favorite Democratic candidates.

My wife is a Republican.  I love her very much and she loves me.  She is not a jerk.  She doesn't hate anyone.  She is just a bit misguided on some issues, but she is working to change the GOP (she is big in the GOP Pro-Choice thing).

I resent your blanket statements.

by smoker1 2008-04-08 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Sounds bogus...anonymous stories, tell all books...sounds like the same unfounded crap that has been directed at the Clinton's for 16 years. No more reason to believe this story...

Sorry...not buyin it

by SaveElmer 2008-04-08 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

And yet while the Republicans and the media will push any and all of those stories as real if Clinton is the nominee, you automatically refuse to accept a story that hasn't even been debunked.

Exactly who ARE you supporting?

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

Sorry...I call bullshit when I see it. The way to win is not to act like the hatemongers in the media and on  the other side.

If to demonstrate support for my candidate I have to act like the people I oppose, then it isn't worth it.

by SaveElmer 2008-04-08 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

I don't mean making up stories, I mean bringing to light stories that can be backed up. If we pretend that we can win by just having stronger policies, we will lose by a far, far greater margin than we did in either 2000 or 2004. We have to deal with character issues, not pretend we're above even acknowledging them.

by vcalzone 2008-04-08 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

If the allegation were proven then I would agree. All I see is a 16 year old story from an anonymous source...with no possible way to prove it. The exact kind of thing used over and over against the Clinton's. It simply does not pass the smell test...

If and when it is proven (which I do not believe it will be), then I will react accordingly.

by SaveElmer 2008-04-08 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: McCain Insulted Wife In Front of Press, Aides

First, we need to make sure this statement is really true. I'd hate to start telling people about this only to find it's a rumor or heresay.

BUT once we know it's true, this is hands down the most important quote we'll get out of McCain and it should be good enough to destroy his chances with all but the most macho voters.

McCain is finished if this becomes common knowledge. Why hasn't it? Will it? Who wants to bet this never makes the major media?

Obama or Clinton Commercial Idea:

Black screen.
Infamous quote appears with McCain's name.
Fade to "Vote Obama" or "Vote Clinton"
"I disapprove of that behavior and I approve this message."

Bam. Election won.

by neverfox 2008-04-08 12:40PM | 0 recs
Well already knew that the republicans were

misogynists and disrespected women. This is not a surprise really. Unless you were living under a rock all these years.

However, what we did not know is that liberals and progressives are as misogynists and disrespected women as much as republicans. McCain called his wife a cunt, which is disgusting. And one prominent liberal radio personality called Senator Clinton, who is ONLY the first viable woman presidential candidate in the history of the United States, a "fucking whore" and the crowd of heart-bleeding liberals and progressives wholeheartedly laughed at this pathetic disgusting and repulsive attack and cheered this prominent liberal.

So before we attack the republicans for being jerks and misogynists, we need to attack our own for being jerks and misogynists. Before we ask other people to shape up, we need to ask ourselves to shape up; otherwise, we are just a bunch of Hypocrites

by likelihood zero 2008-04-08 01:10PM | 0 recs

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