Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Despite Hillary Clinton's continued insistence that the Florida and Michigan delegates be seated according to the vote shares the candidates received in the January unsanctioned primaries (let's face it -- not gonna happen) there are continued signs that the Clinton campaign has warmed to the idea of a re-vote, the latest being PA Gov. Ed Rendell on Sunday's Meet The Press.

...let's revote in Michigan and Florida.  Let's end all the suspense.  If our campaign is wrong and we are not going to be the strongest in those states, let the voters choose it.

For those who advocate a re-vote for Florida and Michigan, a vote by mail primary is an appealing prospect because it's so much cheaper than a full-fledged primary election. This is precisely the solution that the Florida Democratic party seems to have settled on. From The Politico:

Florida Democrats were moving forward Monday with a plan to redo their presidential primary using privately-funded mail-in ballots, a key state party official said, even though some congressional and party leaders had yet to sign on to the idea.

"We're huddling with state brass now," the official said. "The spotlight will be on us. We will have a detailed plan." [...]

The plan would be funded with money raised by the Florida Democratic Party and possibly include the help of the campaigns, the official said.

As for the when and the how:

Under the plan now being considered, Florida voters would receive mail-in ballots, with return postage, in mid-May and possibly face a late May or early June deadline for returning them, the state official said. Before it could be implemented, the mail-in plan would need to be voted on by the state party before heading to the Democratic National Committee for final approval, the state party official said.

The DNC would then conduct a 30-day public comment period before allowing the state party to move forward. If approved, the state party would then need at least three weeks to verify the mailing addresses of the 4 million Democrats who reside in the state before ballots could be sent.

While Clinton supporter FL Sen. Bill Nelson has also advocated for a re-vote and appears amenable to vote by mail, the plan under consideration by the FL state party does face the opposition of one prominent Florida Clinton supporter.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D) said the plan would disenfranchise many voters, especially those in low income areas.

"I really don't think it's a good idea," she said. "It's fraught with problems and now is not the time to be experimenting when we're talking about stakes this high...We still have very raw nerves from the 2000 recount."

But while there's been some mixed messages coming out of the Clinton camp on whether or not to have re-votes in these two crucial states, what's been clear is whether or not a caucus would be acceptable in Michigan, as has apparently been proposed. Rendell was as adamant as Clinton has been:

No.  Caucuses are undemocratic.  That's another thing.  We talk about the superdelegates being undemocratic.  If you're a caucus, older people can't vote, older people who vote by absentee ballot.  There's no absentee ballots in a caucus.  Tim, if you're a shift worker and a lot of our workers, because they're low-income workers, are shift workers, you can't vote in a caucus.  So we want primaries.  That's the way we elect presidents.  We don't have caucuses to elect presidents in the fall.  Let's have a primary.

And now, despite having been outspoken in opposition to a re-vote in the past:

Michigan Sen. Carl Levin suggested on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday that the mail-in option might work for Michigan as well.

The state officials (and presumably the campaigns) realize both that opposing a re-vote is politically perilous and that the attention and business the campaigns would bring to Michigan and Florida states would be a boon to those states so I think it's fairly safe to say we're in for re-votes of some description. A re-vote is starting to look like the most realistic scenario.

Update [2008-3-11 18:41:56 by Todd Beeton]:Howard Dean expressed support for a mail-in vote as well on Sunday's Face The Nation:

DNC Chairman Howard Dean expressed support for a mail-in primary during a television interview Sunday."Every voter gets a ballot in the mail," Dean said on "Face the Nation" on CBS. "It's comprehensive, you get to vote if you're in Iraq or in a nursing home. It's not a bad way to do this."

But let's be clear, vote by mail is not without its problems, as Rep. Wassserman-Shultz expressed in The Politico piece. While it's far better from an enfranchisement perspective than a caucus, those that would be most likely to be disenfranchised are those who are most transient, i.e. the poor and the young. So perhaps it's no surprise that David Axelrod should express some reservations about the Florida plan. From The AP:

David Axelrod, Obama's senior strategist, told reporters Tuesday that the campaign is reserving final judgment until a plan is offered."But obviously there are concerns about a mail-in vote. I mean, there are concerns about eligibility, ballot security," he said during a conference call. "The state of Oregon has mail-in voting, and it took them more than a decade to perfect it to the point where they felt that they could run a statewide campaign through mail-in votes. And now we're going to turn this process over to parties within the states to run on with a matter of weeks to prepare."

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, Democratic nomination, Florida primary, Michigan primary, vote by mail (all tags)

Comments

48 Comments

Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Uh, didn't the Maine caucus at least have absentee ballots?  Do these politicians know what they're talking about or do they instantly go into spin mode?

by rfahey22 2008-03-11 02:07PM | 0 recs
Who gets the mailing?

Would it go to registered party members?  Would it be possible to register in the interim?

by benchcoat 2008-03-11 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

I pointed this out on a similar thread: The Florida Republican controlled legislature and Crist are to blame for jobbing Florida Democrats.  Why is no one making a point of this?  Where are the protesters in front of the Florida Legislature demanding that they pay for a re-vote?  This situation is neither Clinton's nor Obama's fault.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-03-11 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

I was under the impression that local Dems were complicit, though.

by rfahey22 2008-03-11 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Party leadership, maybe, but not the rank and file.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-03-11 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

They were. They wanted the primary moved up, voted unanimously in support of it, and then used the Republican domination in the state as a reason the DNC shouldn't penalize them.

It's true that even if it had been a straight party line vote for/against, the primary still would have been moved to January. But the Dems would have been in a better bargaining position with the DNC if they hadn't all voted in favor of the earlier date.  

by LiberalFL 2008-03-11 02:26PM | 0 recs
mail in ballots

sticky situation IMHO

by sepulvedaj3 2008-03-11 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Since Hillary thinks caucuses are undemocratic, can someone tell me what she has done to try to have them replaced by primaries PRIOR to this election season?  Bill had a lot of experience with them, so I assume the Clintons spoke out for primaries/against caucuses a lot over the last couple of decades.  Quotes?  Links?

by peter peter 2008-03-11 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Fun Trivia: President Clinton won because of the caucus states.  He also had a hand in designing the Texas caucus system.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-11 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

What a mess. The Jan Florida primary was as fair as any primary could be and included absentee ballots. To do that all over by mail, I agree with Debbie. Better that than nothing, I guess, but it should be done as fairly as possible. For example, if a ballot is mailed to someone not at home who filed and absentee ballot before, how does their vote count as before? There has to be a way for absentee ballots to be refiled or count the ones that have already been filed.

Damn the stupid DNC rules! I want Dean out!

by Nobama 2008-03-11 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

That's right as fairly as possible this time around like for instance don't tell everyone that it's not gonna count and then try to make it count.

The last time was not valid.  It's silly to try and overlook that gorilla in the room.  It's insulting to pretend like nobody remembers that little detail when you pretend the Jan votes should count.

by lockewasright 2008-03-11 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Mail in primaries are illegal in the state of Florida. And don't agree with Debbie, she came out earlier and said she would NOT support 3 democratic challengers for house seats in South Florida because she gets along well with the Republican reps. in those districts. One of those reps is the asshole who called a vote during Rep. Lanto's--a Holocaust survivor--memorial service.

Also, its insanely easy to make the case that not everyone who would have voted in the primary voted in January. Once under the impression that the primary would not count, the only reason to vote would be to vote for the ballot initiative regarding the property tax. Young people, say college students, don't own homes...they don't pay property taxes, and were told the only thing on the ballot in which they had a valid interest and stake was a beauty contest. Democratic homeowners in Florida tend to be retired New York transplants.

The ballot initiative catered to Clinton's voters, and ignored Obama's. Considering the margins and vote totals in the 4 counties with a large population of college students, it is clear that a lot of them did not vote.

That is a valid reason why the Florida primary should be discounted.

In Michigan, you can argue that caucuses are undemocratic in general, but not because they are biased against your base. It is against the law to prevent people from voting. Anyone who wants to can caucus. Just cause they don't show up doesnt mean the system is biased against them.

And finally, neither of the campaigns are in a position to refuse a new vote. If the states set up new elections, find a way to pay for them, and get approval from the DNC, then they'll have an election, and whichever candidate doesn't compete will see that fact reflected in their vote totals.

by LiberalFL 2008-03-11 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

That is apparently not true, or at least there is a lot of disagreement on that:

It's wrong.  It uses the wrong statute (F.S. Ch. 101, instead of the Presidential election chapter, F.S. Ch. 103), and it ignores the Supreme Court cases that say the laws upon which it relies simply do not apply to party selection of candidates.  Simply put, it is simply wrong.

comment in here: FL and MI Revotes Look Like A Mail-In

In any case, we are not legal experts here on MyDD. I am sure that this is something that will be thoroughly debated and worked through and it is naive to think that any legal opinion posted here automatically qualifies or disqualifies anything. What is important is to get agreement in principle and then work out the details in a fair way. If both parties approach it with that objective, then a solution can be found.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 02:44PM | 0 recs
Good luck with that

Dean out?

Yeah... Let's dump the DNC chair that brough us back from minority status and gave us our first majorities in BOTH the house and Senate since 1994.

And OBAMA supporters are the cult of personality?

Gimme a break.

by zonk 2008-03-11 02:47PM | 0 recs
In NM, we have a Presidential "Caucus"

that runs from noon to 7 pm and allows for absentee/early voting.

Basically it is a primary that is administered and paid for by the Democratic Party instead of the State.

by ROGNM 2008-03-11 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Unfortunately, vote-by-mail is illegal in Florida right now.  There's been concern around voter fraud with a vote-by-mail primary as well that FL would have to deal with.

Something should probably be done, but I'm not sure what.  I also am not sure if the delegates should be counted fully either, since we're essentially giving FL and MI even MORE prominence now because they broke the rules.  If they allow a full allocation of delegates, they've set a bad precedent for future elections, since everyone will just try to rush to the front knowing that it will either count, or they can just re-do it later if there's a problem (when it'll be even more important).  Essentially, it allows states to have it both ways.

I think there needs to be some sort of re-vote... maybe mail-in is a good option although seems just as questionable as a caucus.  I'd prefer a full primary re-vote, but the states should still be penalized somehow regardless, especially if they'd be using results from this questionable vote-by-mail only deal (and yes, I know that they do absentees during a normal election too, but a vote-by-mail only deal is basically untested in both of these states).  

by leshrac55 2008-03-11 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Vote by mail could be a disaster, especially since neither state has experience with using it. There's a lot of potential for fraud, coercion, and vote buying.

And I agree with your point about actually rewarding Michigan and Florida for breaking the rules by giving them even more attention and importance. I think they should at least be stripped of their superdelegates, to punish some of the people responsible for the mess.

by KCinDC 2008-03-11 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Stripping the supers sounds reasonable.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-03-11 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Florida has a large number of absentee voters...vote by mail will not be a problem. I have been voting absentee is Florida for years.

by americanincanada 2008-03-11 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

It's still far different, if I understand it correctly.  I've voted absentee a couple times and I had to at least request a ballot (in person) specifically for myself.  This initiative would basically send out an absentee ballot to EVERYONE, which massively multiplies the chances of voter fraud.

When I first heard the idea, it sounded good to me.  The more I think about it, though, it seems fraught with problems (not the least of which is that it's still illegal in FL).

by leshrac55 2008-03-11 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

You can actually get on a list for Florida, as I am, that sends you every ballot without you having to request it. I actually called the state party to get the run down on this today.

They said it will be very smooth and they hope to get the go ahead this week.

by americanincanada 2008-03-11 02:51PM | 0 recs
Delegations will be seated as-is

There is no precedent--no mechanism--in American politics for determinative re-dos.

We're gonna talk about this for so long with so many "what ifs" that the delegations, much to Obama's chagrin, will be seated as-is.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-03-11 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Delegations will be seated as-is

If there are no re-votes, they will not get seated as is (unless Obama leads by enough delegates and has sealed the nomination either way). It just won't happen like that.

My guess is that if nothing happens, they get seated 50/50 just so that they can participate in the convention. Obviously, that wouldn't necessarily be representative of what the real vote would be (although unless we actually have a real vote, we won't know), but MI and FL made their own beds, and they'll have to deal with the repercussions.

by leshrac55 2008-03-11 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Delegations will be seated as-is

Oh really?

Apparently you aren't aware that there in fact IS precedent.

In 1996, Delaware jumped its primary ahead in violation of DNC rules.

Just as now - Delaware was then stripped of its delegates.

Obviously, 1996 was an uncontested primary -- but Delaware STILL had its delegates stripped.

Later in the season - they then conceived a "do-over" state caucus and submitted the plan to the DNC.  The DNC accepted the plan, Delaware conducted a new contest -- and the "do-over" delegates were then seated.

So umm... you're wrong.

by zonk 2008-03-11 02:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Remember in 2000, some people floated the idea of Florida having a do-over after people learned about the Palm Beach County "butterfly ballot," the unexplainably large Jewish vote for Pat Bucchanan, the insanely narrow margin between Gore and Bush, the blockades that the FL trooper put up that "coincidentally" hampered black voters...?  

And where did that go?  Nowhere.

This year, we have the primary equivalent of Florida circa mid-November 2000.  

The only way out I see is if Obama manages to win with pledged delegates and supers, and MI and FL delegations are seated AS IS (except for "uncommitted" going entirely to him).  I don't know if that requires him to run the table from here on out (and/or get Edwards to give Obama his delegates), but that seems to be the only realistic proposition given that Obama's team is dragging their heals on a revote.

by DaveB 2008-03-11 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Despite Hillary Clinton's continued insistence that the Florida and Michigan delegates be seated according to the vote shares

Not. For days now the Clinton campaign has agreed to revotes and Clinton surrogates Corzine and Rendell have offered to raise $15M to fund them.

The Obama camp has not agreed to revotes, nor have they offered to help foot the bill.

This statement is exactly 100% the opposite of what has been going on.

For much more than you care to read on this go here:

[UPDATE 2] Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Daschle Waffles Dodd Insults

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

james carville brought that up as well about a week ago.

by sepulvedaj3 2008-03-11 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Right. The Clinton camp has been pressuring the Obama camp to accept revotes. The Obama campaign has been stalling and trying to run out the clock, then deny the delegations in the credentials committee. It seems to be the case that the Corzine Rendell $15M offer to fund them has moved things forward. Perhaps Obama has seen the writing on the wall and decided to get on board before it becomes to apparent that he is trying to obstruct things and annoy voters in FL and MI. Good thing if that's the case.

Another possibility is that this is another ploy by Obama to appear reasonable while still trying to scuttle the revotes. We shall see.

But be alert for further "objections" or "procedural issues" from the Obama campaign.

Again for a lot of detail go here:

[UPDATE 2] Stiffing Florida: Obama Enlists Sharpton - Daschle Waffles Dodd Insults

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 02:52PM | 0 recs
yea

I think it also helps Hillary with elderly voters who did not make it out to the polls.

by sepulvedaj3 2008-03-11 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Sure they want to run out the clock.

If the remaining states run true to course - as we would demographically and per the polls and other factors - expect them to, Obama's lead would be insurmountable even seating the FL/MI delegates as is.

I have no doubt that the Obama camp's preference is just to make FL and MI irrelevant - and just seat them as is.

...and who can blame them?

by zonk 2008-03-11 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Yup...

Exactly as I expected:

David Axelrod, Obama's senior strategist, told reporters Tuesday that the campaign is reserving final judgment until a plan is offered. "But obviously there are concerns about a mail-in vote. I mean, there are concerns about eligibility, ballot security," he said during a conference call. "The state of Oregon has mail-in voting, and it took them more than a decade to perfect it to the point where they felt that they could run a statewide campaign through mail-in votes. And now we're going to turn this process over to parties within the states to run on with a matter of weeks to prepare."

Looks like Obama is still going to try to obstruct the revote.  

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 03:09PM | 0 recs
There are a lot of problems

Via ThePage

"1. Isn't federal money required to pay for a federal election? And won't it be close to impossible to raise the necessary millions of dollars under federal fundraising rules?

2. How late will they have to hold the election to allow for overseas military voters to have time to send their ballots back?

3. How will the state get U.S. Justice Department sign-off fast enough, since Florida, as a "pre-clearance" state, is required to show that any election rules meet federal Voting Rights Act standards?

4. How long a lead time will be needed to allow for voter registration?

5. Can the state and state Democratic Party successfully negotiate with all 67 county supervisors of elections to even hold a statewide election?

6. Will Republicans and independents who already voted in the January 29th Republican primary be allowed to switch their registration and vote in the new contest?

7. Will the state's first-ever such vote-by-mail election produce anything like the record turnout that Democrats saw in January? And what if they fall fall short?

8. Is vote-by-mail event legal under Florida law, which states "(2) The following elections may not be conducted by mail ballot: (a) An election at which any candidate is nominated, elected, retained, or recalled. . . ."? Read full statute here."

by CardBoard 2008-03-11 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

I used to support the idea of letting FL and MI revote.  

But it pisses me off that they were warned about breaking the rules but broke them anyway, they whined about disenfranchisement and now we will let cast the pivotal votes to decide for the entire country between Obama or Clinton.

Sorry but no, you broke the rules.  There must be other ways to win back to Florida and Michigan voters then to award them with the pivotal vote.  How about coming up with a new primary plan that allows different regions of the country to vote first.

PS Ever since Florida in 2000 I despise that state, it is the white trash Riviera.  Are another 100,000 fake felons going to be purged from the voting roles for this election.  Clean up your own house before whining about your vote not counting.  You idiots in Florida cost all of us Al Gore!

by oregonlahar 2008-03-11 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Ugly situation I agree but I can vouch for vote by mail, we have been using it for years in Oregon.  But some advice for Michigan and Florida:  Ask a lot of questions because yes it isn't perfect at first.  Learn from someone else's mistake.  But it is pretty slick.  You can either mail your ballot or drop it off at election departments or other designated sites if you are nervous about the post office.  Each scannable paper ballot is enclosed in two envelopes with the outer envelope requiring a voter signature.  The signature is then matched with voter registration cards (I would imagine on a sample basis).  We haven't really had much in the way of problems but if there are a lot of absentee/military ballots to be mailed, best to get the process started now.  No one is going to be 100% with whatever option gets selected but at least it sounds like the voters of Florida and Michigan will finally have their say.  That whole thing was messed up from the start.      

by Rick in Eugene 2008-03-11 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

A mail-in primary in Florida is illegal. They'd have to change state law in order to do it.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-11 02:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Seems like this is the new talking point.

I don't believe this is true for primaries.

In any case there is a lot of disagreement about this, so it is not such a black and white matter.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Listen, I'm not opposed to a revote. But the statute seems pretty clear to me. This is a nominating contest.

There are a lot of obstacles to a revote, is what I'm trying to say.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-11 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

If they agree in principle, then I am sure those problems can be worked out.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

A compromise I would accept, as an Obama supporter:

Florida:  Count as is; strip 1/2 delegates.

MI: "Uncomitted" delegates must vote Obama, Clinton gets hers; strip 1/2 delegates.

by goodnbad 2008-03-11 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Thought about this as well... I'm wondering if maybe re-votes can account for the other half of the delegates...

On the other hand, they should probably still be penalized somehow, so perhaps the re-vote is just unnecessary and something along the lines of that would be better.

by leshrac55 2008-03-11 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Right.  There must be some punishment meted out.  We need to do anything reasonable to prevent states from ever putting us in this predicament again.

Stripping each state of 1/2 of their delgations is a suitable punishment, in that it minimizes the impact/influence which these states have on the process.  The very same influence that they sought to enhance by moving their primaries up.

Though I believe the original primaries in these two states to have been inherently unfair, at this point - I just want to be done with this already.

by goodnbad 2008-03-11 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

The 50/50 solution, while obviously not something Clinton wants, would actually solve the problem too... It basically removes the states from having a say in the matter, but allows them to participate in the convention.  Theoretically, they could do what they wanted at the convention and that would be a way to avoid completely excluding them.

by leshrac55 2008-03-11 03:45PM | 0 recs
Disaster

The Florida Democratic Party is a train wreck.  Chuck Todd just speculated they might be the worst in the country.

Make no mistake, if this vote-by-mail moves forward it would be an unmitigated disaster that would make 2000 look like a joke.  Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is right, with the stakes as high as they are this would cast doubt not just on the new result but on the entire primary.

by rcipw 2008-03-11 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Yup... just as I predicted.

Obama is still going to try and obstruct the revote:

David Axelrod, Obama's senior strategist, told reporters Tuesday that the campaign is reserving final judgment until a plan is offered. "But obviously there are concerns about a mail-in vote. I mean, there are concerns about eligibility, ballot security," he said during a conference call. "The state of Oregon has mail-in voting, and it took them more than a decade to perfect it to the point where they felt that they could run a statewide campaign through mail-in votes. And now we're going to turn this process over to parties within the states to run on with a matter of weeks to prepare."

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Under the guise of "resonableness" watch him continue to find objections to any specific proposed solution except his meaningless and insulting 50-50 split.

Make no mistake it is Obama that is the roadblock to getting meaningful, valid and fair election results in Florida and Michigan.

He is willing to wrechk the Democrats chances of victory in the general election which is what happens if we stiff these states, in order to get the nomination. What good does it do to win the battle if you lose the war. Democrats, all Democrats should be very troubled by this tactic.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-11 03:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

Well, in all fairness - Florida has outlawed mail-in voting for good reason: it is very prone to fraud.

I'm already concocting schemes in my head that I would be able to come up with to cheat the vote...

Walk around the neighborhood on the date that the ballots are delivered and stealing them out of people's mailboxes comes to mind...

Paying people to give me their ballots...

Something like this can't just be thrown together last minute.

by goodnbad 2008-03-11 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

How is Obama causing this train wreck? He along with the other candidates agreed to not be on ballots in those states because they broke the rules. Now because Clinton needs the unfair numbers she got by breaking that agreement, you say he is wrong for asking for a fair solution. You are just negating the fact that those states broke the rules. I think a 50/50 split would be fair to both candidates and the states would be punished for the rule breaking but still be seated. Otherwise, in 4 years states could just pick whatever dates they wanted to hold their primaries regardless of what the DNC decided, then cry foul and use this year as a precedent to make their choices stand. So you be fair and stop trying to make this Obama's fault. Democrats, all Democrats should be very troubled by YOUR tactics.

by retssgrob 2008-03-12 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Michigan and Florida Could Re-Vote By Mail

With all of this talk about letting MI & FL delegates count, is anyone thinking about what the repercussions of letting them count could do to our system? They broke the rules and are now crying foul because their votes don't count. But if we let them count as stands (God forbid) or even give them do-overs, in 4 years when we have the next presidential primaries, States could just pick their own primary dates regardless of what the DNC says, then use this year as precedent to cry foul and demand that their votes count. Come on. Rules are rules and breaking them to suit one candidate or another just alienates our youth even more. It says to them, "Yeah rules are rules, but you can break them if it suits your purpose". Regina R. in Mobile, AL

by retssgrob 2008-03-12 02:10PM | 0 recs

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