I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton had an uphill climb. She started out way at the back of my rankings of presidential preferences, behind Obama (whom I prefered early) and Edwards, but over the course of the past year, she of all the candidates made the case best, in my mind, for why she should be president.

The shift began to happen in early fall after several debates gave me a sense of just what a good candidate she was, which is different than whether she'd be a good president; I just really became more and more impressed with her intelligence, humor and ability to communicate a message in a succinct and accessible way, unlike Democratic nominees of days past. At the same time, I became less and less impressed with Barack Obama's candidacy, which seemed to be flailing a bit. As fall gave way to winter and there was a switch in the fortunes of what would become the two leading campaigns for the Democratic nomination, I realized my admiration for Clinton had developed into a real belief that she would be not only a great nominee but also a phenomenal president.

Over the past few weeks, as the differences between the candidates have sharpened into a choice between two styles of the presidency and as I've seen Clinton and Obama in person several times, that impression has grown even stronger. Who knew I had such a strong belief that the presidency is a job that requires intimate knowledge of the ways Washington works and a hands on approach to not only setting, but pushing through an agenda. I'm much more a Jed Bartlett guy than a Dave guy, which is why through all of the Obama events I've seen, I've been left wondering, OK, sounds great but exactly what will you do as president and how will you do it? Obama wants to lift the country up, make us see ourselves as better than we are, unite the red states and blue states...you've heard it all...but as inspiring as it is, I'm always left wondering what does it mean in real world terms? I need more than a theory of change to cast a ballot for the most important job in the world. Follow me...

As if trying to answer just that question, Ted Kennedy said at a recent rally that Barack Obama is the one to break the deadlock in Washington. Huh? How? If that's the case, why hasn't he done so as senator? What sort of across the aisle magic unity has he manifested over the past 3 years? It plays into this idea that Hillary Clinton is too divisive to be elected, which flies in the face of the reality that she won over the respect of Republican senators in congress and she won over Republican voters in New York; to paraphrase Obama himself, Hillary Clinton is not nearly as divisive as the caricature her opponents paint of her would suggest, yet it certainly behooves the Obama campaign to perpetuate that idea.

In addition, as for what the two candidates will do as president, there are two distinct reasons Hillary Clinton has inspired my vote over Barack Obama. First is that I know she will be a partisan warrior. I'm not ready to give up the fight that they started but that we've been waging over the past several years; I'm not ready to give in to the Broders and Brooks's who insist both parties are equally culpable in the havoc that the Bush administration and a Republican congress has wrought and that unity, in and of itself, is the answer. I've been saying all year that a unity message does not have to be a post-partisan message; you can unite the country by branding the values of the majority of Americans as what they are: Democratic values opposed to the regressive and destructive Republican values that have almost run our country into the ground. While I have no doubt that Barack Obama is a committed Democrat and wants Democrats all over the country to win, I'm disturbed at times by his reluctance to state proudly that he is a Democrat; he has a real opportunity to rebrand the party but he almost perpetuates the idea that it's a dirty word.

The second reason is that I actually believe Hillary Clinton is prepared to take full advantage of the progressive moment we find ourselves in to set a challenging domestic agenda that will not only, as she puts it, "clean up after this Bush," but will also set us on a track for a longterm progressive majority. I know she's seen as a cautious DLC centrist, but what's interesting is that people who claim to be so concerned with moving forward into the future assume Clinton will govern as president with the same instincts that led to some of her worst votes as senator. I actually believe with workable majorities in both houses of congress and with a strong electoral mandate from the country in November, President Hillary Clinton will be a friend and champion of progressive causes. Sure, I fully admit that requires a leap of faith on my part, but she inspires me to take that leap.

Why don't I see Barack Obama as that guy? Perhaps because in his effort to woo more conservative voters he's running to Clinton's right on health care and using right wing language on anything from Social Security to tax cuts. It used to matter to progressives how a candidate talks about issues; it still matters to me. It's not that I think Barack Obama isn't a progressive, certainly his voting record is, but the idea that he would run right to make distinctions from his opponent in a Democratic primary goes against everything we've been fighting for; and how else am I supposed to judge how he'll be as president than by the policies he's offering as a candidate? Whenever Obama does something questionable to progressives, it's fascinating to see the bending over backwards that goes on throughout the blogosphere to justify it. I don't think we should be trying so hard to look for signs that Barack Obama is a friend to the progressive movement even as he boasts about wanting to be the second coming of Ronald Reagan. Maybe he is sending some complex series of coded messages, which is essentially what some bloggers have argued, but all it does is make me question even more exactly the kind of president he would be. I don't have that same question with Hillary Clinton.

So, for me, a vote for Barack Obama is a leap of faith, one I'm not prepared to take. While Barack Obama certainly has inspired me and I believe him to be a good and honorable man, Hillary Clinton has inspired something far more important for my vote: confidence. I have no doubt that Obama could continue to nurture the movement he's started, perhaps as a VP candidate (yes, Clinton-Obama would be my ideal ticket) or just as a senator/orator; he doesn't need to be president to make the change he says he wants to bring to our nation. As he himself tells us often, it's not about him, it's about us. Right now, after a president who has systematically undermined every aspect of government, I need a president who will focus on making it work again; I believe in the power of government to be a force of positive change in people's lives and I know Barack Obama does as well, but only Hillary Clinton has inspired me to believe that she is the one to fix it and indeed to restore faith in government to usher in a longterm period of progressive -- and competent -- governance. Now that would be quite a change indeed.

I went back and forth on whether I should write this, curious your thoughts. I don't know if it's to my credit or not that I've been accused of being both an Obama booster and an Obama hater but now you know where my vote lies, the truth is out. But quite frankly, I've tried not to use this blog as an outlet of candidate promotion, I've tried to call it as I've seen it, regardless of my vote, so I will continue to write about Barack Obama in a positive light and criticize Clinton when warranted. These are both great candidates, we're lucky to have this choice, as tough as it's been.

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, California primary, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Awesome. Methinks you are reflective of most of America and most Dems about this. The blogosphere and the MSM might think otherwise, but Hillary will be our nominee. And our next President.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

So many Democrats these days are Republican flavored that anyone who votes for Hillary in this election must necessarily be politically confused.

by shergald 2008-02-05 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

That's because we're all low information voters.  Haven't you heard?

by Denny Crane 2008-02-05 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm in tears.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-05 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Outstanding. You've encapsulated the beliefs of many Hilary supporters, and I too would love to see a Clinton/Obama ticket in the fall.

I think you've been very fair in your coverage of the the candidates - I didn't have the slightest suspicion that you supported Hillary. We have to be sure that we aren't are Hillary supporters and not Hillary worshippers. She's human and bound to make mistakes, and we have a duty to let her know when we think she's making one.

That said, we're glad to have you.

by Denny Crane 2008-02-05 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Well Todd some folks like you believe the future
of the Democratic Party lies with the DLC leaders of Ford/Carper/Clinton


Some of us don't...
However..isn't it a little hard to be progressive and a DLC'er?

I remember just a few years back when Howard Dean beat back the DLC to become our Party Chairman.
Don't know about you but some of us found victory in in that...

by nogo war 2008-02-05 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Well, I'm not a DLC-er and I'm voting for Clinton.  Maybe you've offered a false premise?

by Thaddeus 2008-02-05 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

For the best clue as to what type of president she will be, look at the Bill Clinton administration. She was a key advisor then.

If you want progressive government, she's the wrong choice.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I just hope that with all the back and forth among those of here and across the netroots, we are able to back up whichever candidate gets the nomination with the same ferver we've displayed thus far.

by jlars 2008-02-05 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thank you for being so neutral in your coverage.

I think you made the wrong decision but you didn't let it effect your work which is why I valued the Bowers-Dominant MyDD and deplored Stoller.


by MNPundit 2008-02-05 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I agree with the praise about impartial coverage. I had trouble figuring out which way you were leaning. I knew TPM was going for Obama at least a month ago.

by OrangeFur 2008-02-05 10:20AM | 0 recs
You mean the Mothership?

I just complained on there that Josh has been so obsessed with being an impartial muck-raking site that he's forgotten to be a Dem or a member of the liberal blogosphere.

by MNPundit 2008-02-05 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm starting to see more and more of the kool-aid wearing off. It's nice to see.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

who would have thought ?

by lori 2008-02-05 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I think this has been pretty evident for awhile. This is of course your right as an american.
I wonder why you think that HRC's sponsoring 2.5 billion in earmarks(most in the senate since 02) and her receiving mega contributions from the recipients of those earmarks somehow signals a new way of doing business in DC?

Or her vote for invading Iraq without bothering to read the NIE and her voting against the levin amendment..you like the Bush foreign policy,evidently.

Certainly you have stated your case..HRC has good points,no doubt. I will vote for her. I just happen to think she will perpetuate the current lobby driven agenda as her support from lobbyist,war contractors and insurance lobby ect indicates.

Bottom line..you are comfortable that all we need to change is the names on the doors in DC and finally progress will be ours...I disagree.

by hawkjt 2008-02-05 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

The only reason I would favor Obama over Hillary is for the fact that it will be the return of the DLC into the DNC. I don't see much difference between Hillary or Obama. Maybe Obama would be slightly more progressive and he seems to have some independence from the DC thinking, even if he unfortunately uses Republican language sometimes. I suspect Obama would be a progressive in the White House though.

With Hillary, I really doubt she would follow progressive practices, especially given her vote on Iran and the support of NAFTA in the 1990s.

by Progressive America 2008-02-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

It doesn't matter how progressive someone is if they have NO IDEA how to accomplish change.  I think Barack needs to get his feet a little wet and actually push through some major legislation, maybe get involved in some diplomatic or economic challenges, and then talk about HOW he will accomplish "change."  You said it yourself - there is not much difference between Hillary and Obama when it comes to policy. Hillary is actually to the left of Obama on a few select items. Same for Obama. But the major difference is that Hillary CAN DO IT.

I just fear that Obama that would get in there with huge hopes and big ideas and not get a single thing done.  

When I think about it, a potential Obama presidency could be like the Corzine governorship in New Jersey. Corzine, who ran as a strong progressive, came to Trenton as an outsider to accomplish huge things and change the way government works.  However, with comfortable Democratic majorities in both houses (which is what Obama would have in Congress), the legislative leaders didn't have to listen to Governor Progressive.  Power in NJ has been effectively ceded to the legislative branch, led by two somewhat progressive, mostly pragmatic white dudes and their party bosses in each county. BECAUSE CORZINE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE WAYS OF TRENTON HE COULDN'T CHANGE THE WAYS OF TRENTON.  

I don't believe Obama has enough experience to understand Washington (specifically the bureaucracy), and therefore, I don't believe he can actually change Washington.  

Todd, great post.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I think your points constitute a great reason to choose Hillary over Barack. Also, she will have Bill at her side as a guide. MAJOR benefit.

But I know whet we're getting with Hillary -- more gridlock, more partisan bickering, and no courage from her centrist policies.

I will still take my chances with Obama.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I don't really understand your point here. Are you against gridlock, or are you against centrist policy? Because in a way, they're kind of mutually exclusive.  Centrist policy comes out of negotiating with Republicans. "Gridlock" comes when the two parties can't agree and both parties have some power.  

Fortunately, the next president will have at least two years with workable Democratic majorities, so gridlock won't be as much of a problem as it was for Bill Clinton's presidency.  Gridlock since 2006 has actually been a good thing since it's stopped some pretty bad things from happening. Gridlock in itself is not necessarily bad.  

Obama if anyone is the one who is convinced we need to play nice with Republicans and "bring everyone together."

Division as opposed to "unity" is not it itself a bad thing.  Hillary is a fighter.  She will push a progressive agenda, and she won't take any prisoners.  She knows we have too much work to do after the past 7 years of this disasterous president, and I believe she also has a lot she wants to accomplish to make up for things that she didn't get to accomplish when Bill was in office.  Lastly, I believe that Hillary is more progressive than Bill and will be more effective than Bill -- since she won't have the "personal" problems.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

And let me just add that part of the reason we lost our Democratic majorities in Congress in 1994 (two years into Bill's presidency) is because the country reacted to a new, fresh, young, idealistic president who got into office and had no idea how to get started.  The first two years of Bill's presidency consisted of mistake after mistake after embarrassment after fumble.  Do we want to do that again right now, at this time, after this current president?  Do we want to again risk our majorities in Congress? Do we want to risk our reputation as a party? Do we want to risk the movement we're building?  There can be real and serious consequences for our party, our movement, and our country, for electing someone with so little experience.  

And that's if he can even make it through the general.

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Gee this is a real shocked.  The world will flip on its head if Jerome also comes out for Hillary, because no one would see that coming either.

by Socks The Cat 2008-02-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I have a problem with the DLC.

I would feel better about Clinton if I felt she would give Howard Dean space to continue to do what he has been doing- but I fear we'd see a return to the Terry days.  So I'm willing to make a leap of faith for Obama because I don't trust Clinton with the future of the Democratic party- I actually trust her more to, as you said, competently run the government.  Since when did Hillary become Michael Dukakis?

by jgkojak 2008-02-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Dean's term as DNC chairman is up right after the election. I haven't heard any inkling that he's running again, and traditionally chairmen only serve one term.

Obama is not partisan enough to be trusted with "the future of the Democratic party."  

The DLC is a straw man.  Hillary's record is largely progressive. Obama is not too far away from the DLC himself.  Tort reform anyone?  Take a look at his endorsers.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

     I'd also like to point out that Kos  stated flatly way back in 2004 that the DLC no longer had any power.

    The point mentioned above that DLCers/conservative Dems/Blue Big Dems are going for Obama should raise a red flag: I see it as meaning either one of two things:

    - they believe Obama will bring more conservative voters out to vote against him (due to racism, etc.) but FOR them, which is doubly bad news for The Democratic Party in general; or

    - they believe Obama will bring more conservative voters out to vote for both him AND them, based on the belief that as President, he would be the easiest to push around (and indeed, messages of "healing" or even the willingness to compromise are like blood in the water to the current crop of Congressional Republicans).


by SergeiRostov 2008-02-06 05:57AM | 0 recs
I'm surprised

I didn't see this coming, I have not seen you as inclined to Clinton. I'm sure many Obama supporters will disagree, but I think you have been perhaps too balanced.

I think you make a very good case for Clinton.

by souvarine 2008-02-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Just curious, did you ever read Obama's most recent book, "The Audacity of Hope."  Lot's of wonkish stuff in there.

by howardpark 2008-02-05 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I could not agree more in terms of the promise that Obama wants to convey, which many of us heard so many times before that we are more guarded and apprehensive to believe it, especially given that most of the promise has to do with extending the hand to those who have damaged this country almost beyond repair.  

To your excellent point about Obama running to the right of Hillary on tax cuts, one of the most underreported and underdiscussed problems is Obama's major cave-in to the Republicans to only advocate a sunsetting of Bush's tax cuts, which means that they will be in effect until 2012.  Hillary Clinton plans to repeal these tax cuts right away.    The added revenue from a repeal of these tax cuts will be used to pay for the new health care system, so if we are leaving those tax cuts alone until they naturally expire in 2012, where is the money for health care and other programs going to come from before 2012?   This is one example of the stark difference between the two candidates.  Obama wants to appear above party, therefore Bush's tax cuts, which are dear to the GOP's hearts, are a way to show goodwill with Republicans.  With Hillary we will get into a tax cuts fight right away, and the GOP will have its favored toy taken away.  The problem with Obama's approach is that caving to Republicans to be a post-partisan president will only hurt us DEMOCRATS big time.   By the time 2012 rolls around, and Obama is already running for a second term, who knows in what state his presidency would be at that point.  Even though then revenues would finally come in to tackle health care, he may be no longer in a strong position to get anything done on health care.  A squandered opportunity, wasted on empty rhetoric about post-partisanship, hope, change.

by georgep 2008-02-05 07:44AM | 0 recs
Obama has proven...

...throughout his longer legislative career that his ideas are not simply theory.

Unlike Hillary, who has very few public accomplishments to support the idea that she has a better demonstrated approach.

But, let's face it, most of us make voting decisions based on gut reactions -- and fix the facts around a narrative that fits our intuitions.

I wouldn't claim that my support for Obama doesn't contain elements of that, as well.

But, trying to be as completely objective as possible, I think there's lots to suggest that Obama would be a stronger candidate against McCain.

by Vermonter 2008-02-05 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama has proven...

"Longer legislative career"?!! Dude, major props for the best "technically true but still ridiculous" statement on the web today. That was in the Illinois State Senate! Where the biggest decision is what potholes to fix (I'm exaggerating, but you get my point)..

More to the point, he's a complete beginner in politics. Never been in a general election before except for against Alan Keyes! There may be "lots to suggest he would be a stronger candidate" but an EXTRA heaping spoonful of risk comes with that.

by ColoradoGuy 2008-02-05 08:26AM | 0 recs

What is Hillary's signature piece of legislation in the U.S. Senate?

by Vermonter 2008-02-05 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Beautiful. Todd, I thought you were an Obama man. Well reasoned and insightful endorsement.

by JFK464 2008-02-05 07:45AM | 0 recs
I'm also surprised

It seemed that Todd had a strong preference for Obama a few months ago.

by desmoinesdem 2008-02-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Hillary will lose. She will lose becuase she is the most polarizinf figure in politics. SHe is hated by 50 percent of the public. She has so much baggage she couldnt board oceanliner. Add to that, the fact that more americans have no desire to see Bill Clinton step foot into the White House again and its even less likely she can win. This aside from the fact that she is a cold, calculating phony who will do and say anything to win the nomination. Instead of supporting true candidates for change like Obama and Edwards, one supports Hillary? Have you learned nothing the last 8 years! Unreal...

by adbct 2008-02-05 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

If you want to rant at least get your numbers right.

by ottovbvs 2008-02-05 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

This canard is stale. Get a life or at least another argument. Obama's poll numbers show him as being MORE polarizing than Hillary

by JFK464 2008-02-05 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton
Obama's poll numbers show him as being MORE polarizing than Hillary, Absolutely correct and I wish more people understood that.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-02-05 08:28AM | 0 recs

...  and it's not worth much, but...

In the latest CNN poll, Obama beats McCain by 8, Hillary loses by 3.

Just sayin.

by Vermonter 2008-02-05 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: FWIW...


she wins by 3

Looking ahead to the general election in November, Clinton tops McCain 50 percent to 47 percent and beats Romney 56 to 41 in hypothetical matchups. Obama beats McCain 52 percent to 44 percent and tops Romney 59 percent to 36 percent

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/04/n ational.poll/index.html

" In the latest CNN poll, Obama beats McCain by 8, Hillary loses by 3.

Just sayin."

get it right.

just saying.

I won't gloat too much on obama's electability if I were you , after all he is the guy that has not had 1 negative ad run against him and has had the most positive press coverage for any politician in recent memory for almost a year now.

by lori 2008-02-05 08:55AM | 0 recs
You're right...

I was wrong.

But, not one negative ad? Please... There have been numerous ones via 527s, etc. Not to mention numerous mailers and phone campaigns.

Oh, yeah, and an extremely wide-spread viral email slander that has been surprisingly effective.\

And still he's been outpolling Hillary when compared to McCain.

Just sayin...

by Vermonter 2008-02-08 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

The more people get to know her, the more they like her. We've seen it in the NY metro area. This is not baloney.

Personally, I've seen several close friends go from ridiculous Hillary-haters (she killed Vince Foster) to ready to vote for her, because they see her as the most practical or competent or experienced.  People who meet her are consistently surprised at how warm she is and how brilliant she is.  

The problem here is the media. Obama and McCain are media darlings.  Hillary has been under attack from the right-wing and the press for over 16 years.  There's a lot of sexist undertones to some of this coverage as well.  

I'm optimistic that Hillary can continue to sideline the press and get her message out directly to people in the general.  She can beat McCain.  She (with her husband) has been beating Republicans for nearly 30 years, with an undefeated record since 1982.

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 08:21AM | 0 recs
I don't agree with you

either Clinton or Obama could beat McCain, but it will be an uphill battle for both.

I see Clinton winning or losing a close race. To win, it's pretty straightforwards: she needs record turnout of women, combined with a strong lead among Latinos and young people, while (hopefully) losing few working-class whites to McCain.

I see Obama potentially winning bigger or losing in a landslide. He needs record-breaking turnout of young people and African-Americans, combined with a big mistake or two by McCain that call attention to his age and/or his bad temper. Obama will lose more working-class whites, and possibly more seniors to McCain, so he would need to make up for that with young people and independents.

by desmoinesdem 2008-02-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't agree with you

When Edwards dropped out, the Democrats lost, period.

Thank god this attitude isn't more widespread or it would almost certainly come true. The reality -- record turnout and fundraising for the Dems by comparison to which the Republicans must feel downright embarrassed -- suggests otherwise.

Have a troll rating.

by Pender 2008-02-05 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

This is just about the most cogent and thoughtful defense of a vote as I've seen online.  No screaming, no propaganda, no over-the-top pontifications and accusations.

I've spoken to many of my friends, from Florida, New York City, San Diego, Chicago, San Francisco ... they're all awed by Obama, but they feel that, like you, we will find ourselves in a better position if Hillary is president.  Thus, they're all tending towards the "PC" of candidates ... but still glancing wishfully at the shiny new "Mac" nearby.

by Sieglinde 2008-02-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I am a liberal gay Democrat and the furthest thing from DLC and I support Hillary Clinton! Obama is the one who wants to make nice with Republicans (as if they won't stab him in the back). Washington is about power and holding onto it. Idealism is nice but we have heard the Obama message before--- from George W. Bush. Now just hear me out...

Al Gore ran in 2000 as the candidate of experience and the guy who could get the job done and new policy and Washington inside out.

George W. Bush ran as "a uniter not a divider" who had won over Democrats in Texas and would bridge the partisan gap in Washington and "change the tone". What President in modern times has really "changed the tone" or "ended the partisan divide in Washington" for any meaningful amount of time?

If Obama wins he will ride high until after the Inaguration (spelling I know I know! lol) but after that then what??? I guess Obama feels that Mitch McConnell, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, O'Reilly and not to mention the Christian right will be won over by him. I don't buy it! These people are true believers and when Obama starts trying to enact a liberal social agenda they will FIGHT!!! and hard. I know what Hillary would do, hit back and twice as hard. I haven't a clue what Obama would do and thats why Hillary got my vote

by rossinatl 2008-02-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm so glad you said this. Remember how even the Democrats were whining at how booorrrrriiiinnnng poor Al was. If only he could be as charming as Bill Clinton. It was disgusting.

I see the same thing happenign with Hillary. The Democrats eat their own all the friggin time. I was at a "debate" last night with some young and passionate Obama supporters and the rhetoric coming from their mouths was shocking. It was as if they had the Republican play book in their hands and were mouthign all the same charges they put onto Bill in the 90s. Of course they're not even self-aware enough to realize it!

Hate Bill, Obama supporters, all you want , but hating Hillary with such certainty and conviction is really strange and disturbing.

by Dari 2008-02-05 09:41AM | 0 recs
You've restored my faith in human nature.

I must have got  you wrong Todd after that very strange story about emails sent by Bill, mysterious bar tenders etc. Good to hear you came out for Hillary and for basically very good reasons. One only hopes the rest of the electorate go through the same mental process but there is plenty of evidence they don't. Exhibit one George W. Bush. I've seen her in action giving an address and answering questions in front of unfriendly audience of bankers and she was absolutely superb. Poised and with a total grasp of the issues. Just the qualities she's displayed on the campaign trail. Let's hope on a day that Bush has delivered the biggest budget in US history with deficits stretching forever that Democratic voters will have the good sense to pick the right candidate for these troubled times.    

by ottovbvs 2008-02-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
that was Todd Bennett

not Todd Beeton.

You're not the first person to mix them up here!

by desmoinesdem 2008-02-05 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Welcome Home!!!

by Opandora 2008-02-05 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

A nice piece of writing, well written and reasoned.  Blows most of the committee written editorial board endorsements away.

by MassEyesandEars 2008-02-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Todd, first of all I think that the coverage on this site has been very fair.  For a long time I would have said you were an Obama supporter.

Second, you really capture the distinction in my opinion.  Clinton has been a phenomenal candidate, which is what we need to win.  On top of that, she has the experience to make a real difference for us after she is elected.

My major issue with Obama's experience has been whether or not he had the experience to become President.  I have thought that 3 years in the U.S. Senate would be enough time to demonstrate why you should become President.

However, Obama has not framed his candidacy around major policy accomplishments or even proposals.

3 years in the U.S. Senate is a very powerful soap box.  Even when you are in the minority party you have the opportunity to really put forward policy ideas and drive the debate.

Instead, Obama has been the last candidate on many of these policy proposals.  And, when his policy proposals are put forward, they are often to the right of the other candidates.

Obama's campaign is founded on high minded ideas.  They are ideas that are important for our nation, but the Presidency is not necessarily the vehicle to advance those ideas and values.

On top of that, bi partisanship may be important.  But it is not the highest virtue.  What major policy issues does the Republican party have any good ideas to share with?  Health Care?  The environment? Social Security? Social Justice? Taxes? Where there are no good ideas to draw on, compromising is no virtue.

You hit the nail on the head -- Clinton has the experience to realize our progressive vision.  She has the competence to make government work again and to give people confidence in seeing that government can work on our behalf. And, she has the experience to become President.

I applaud your choice and all the reasons for it.

by rcipw 2008-02-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I think the reasoning behind your choice is well thought out and I am also confident that Hillary Clinton will make the best president.  She may be polarizing, but so is Obama. If anyone has a chance to win against the republicans it's her.  Check out this video where Hillary responds to media accusations against her. It's pretty cool.

http://campaigncircus.com/video_player.p hp?v=7462

by kberly7568 2008-02-05 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Of course you are.

This site has basically become a case of 'preaching to the choir'.  Kos too, but for Barack.

I hope the schism doesn't last past the primaries.

by verite 2008-02-05 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

So, Hillary's not perfect.  Neither is Obama.  You're holding Hillary to the standard of perfection and then when she doesn't meet it, defaulting to Obama.

I don't see Obama filibustering war appropriations bills or the FISA bill, or any such thing.

As for change, I don't think I know what that means anymore.  I used to think it meant "different."  If Clinton isn't different than Bush, then I'm getting shades of Nader voters.  How did that work out for you?

That's the think about the Daily Kobamites--they hate Nader but love Obama for Naderesque reasons.

by attorney at arms 2008-02-05 07:55AM | 0 recs
I'm surprised you haven't done your homework, Todd

Now, this isn't to say that one couldn't have done one's homework and still decide to support Hilliary but your comments demonstrate that you haven't done any research on what Obama has actually done or proposed.

Compare your comments that: "I'm much more a Jed Bartlett guy than a Dave guy, which is why through all of the Obama events I've seen, I've been left wondering, OK, sounds great but exactly what will you do as president and how will you do it? Obama wants to lift the country up, make us see ourselves as better than we are, unite the red states and blue states...you've heard it all...but as inspiring as it is, I'm always left wondering what does it mean in real world terms? I need more than a theory of change to cast a ballot for the most important job in the world."

with his actual record and proposals (stolen shamelessly from Hilzoy at ObWi): http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_ wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html
and (from 2006!) http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_ wings/2006/10/barack_obama.html

I do follow legislation, at least on some issues, and I have been surprised by how often Senator Obama turns up, sponsoring or co-sponsoring really good legislation on some topic that isn't wildly sexy, but does matter. His bills tend to have the following features: they are good and thoughtful bills that try to solve real problems; they are in general not terribly flashy; and they tend to focus on achieving solutions acceptable to all concerned, not by compromising on principle, but by genuinely trying to craft a solution that everyone can get behind.

His legislation is often proposed with Republican co-sponsorship, which brings me to another point: he is bipartisan in a good way. According to me, bad bipartisanship is the kind practiced by Joe Lieberman. Bad bipartisans are so eager to establish credentials for moderation and reasonableness that they go out of their way to criticize their (supposed) ideological allies and praise their (supposed) opponents. They also compromise on principle, and when their opponents don't reciprocate, they compromise some more, until over time their positions become indistinguishable from those on the other side.

This isn't what Obama does. Obama tries to find people, both Democrats and Republicans, who actually care about a particular issue enough to try to get the policy right, and then he works with them. This does not involve compromising on principle. It does, however, involve preferring getting legislation passed to having a spectacular battle. (This is especially true when one is in the minority party, especially in this Senate: the chances that Obama's bills will actually become law increase dramatically when he has Republican co-sponsors.)

So my little data point is: while Obama has not proposed his Cosmic Plan for World Peace, he has proposed a lot of interesting legislation on important but undercovered topics. I can't remember another freshman Senator who so routinely pops up when I'm doing research on some non-sexy but important topic, and pops up because he has proposed something genuinely good. Since I think that American politics doesn't do nearly enough to reward people who take a patient, craftsmanlike attitude towards legislation, caring as much about fixing the parts that no one will notice until they go wrong as about the flashy parts, I wanted to say this.

She goes on to cite:
* Nonproliferation: the poster child for issues that people ought to care about, but don't. Here Obama has teamed up with Richard Lugar (R-IN).

* Avian flu: Obama was one of the first Senators to speak out on avian flu, back in the spring of 2005, when it was a quintessentially wonky issue, not the subject of breathless news reports.

* Regulating Genetic Testing: It was while I was reading about this issue that I first thought: gosh, Barack Obama seems to turn up whenever I am reading about some insanely wonky yet important issue. And this one is not just off the radar; it and the radar are in different universes.

* Reducing medical malpractice suits the right way: Contrary to popular belief, medical malpractice claims do not do much to drive up health care costs. Still, medical malpractice litigation is a problem. Tort reform would address this problem at the expense of people who have been the victims of real, serious medical malpractice, who would lose their right to sue, or have it curtailed. If you read the medical literature, however, it turns out that there's a much better way to minimize malpractice suits, namely: apologizing. ... Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton teamed up to introduce legislation aimed at helping hospitals to develop programs for disclosure of medical errors.

Those are some of the wonkier things he's done. (There are others: introducing legislation to make it illegal for tax preparers to sell personal information, for instance, and legislation on chemical plant security and lead paint.) He has done other things that are more high-profile, including:

   * His "health care for hybrids" bill

   * An Energy Security Bill

   * Various bills on relief for Hurricane Katrina, including aid for kids and a ban on no-bid contracts by FEMA

   * A public database of all federal spending and contracts

   * Trying to raise CAFE standards

   * Veterans' health care

   * Making certain kinds of voter intimidation illegal

   * A lobbying reform bill (with Tom Coburn), which would do all sorts of good things, notably including one of my perennial favorites, requiring that bills be made available to members of Congress at least 72 hours before they have to vote on them.

   * And a proposal to revamp ethics oversight, replacing the present ethics Committee with a bipartisan commission of retired judges and members of Congress, and allowing any citizen to report ethics violations. This would have fixed one of the huge problems with the present system, namely: that the members have to police themselves.

by SKI 2008-02-05 07:56AM | 0 recs
Trenchant analysis

I had a similar journey to becoming a Hillary supporter.  At this point, I'm ready to work my ass off for her in the GE.  That's something I wouldn't have said a year or even six months ago.

by Montague 2008-02-05 07:57AM | 0 recs
I'm confident

she has rock-solid supporters.  she will pull through.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-05 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

So, I assume that you voted for George Bush I instead of Bill Clinton in 1992 - because the argument you just laid out would suggest so.  What a missed opportunity that would have been.  

Hillary's no Bill.  Obama is the Bill of 2008 and Hillary is the George Bush I.  

More to the point, Hillary's intimate knowledge of how things work in Washington apparently contributed to her vote to authorize war in Iraq and, all but do the same with respect to Iran.  What value is it to "know how things work" if it leads to that kind of those kinds of decisions?

by ruskin 2008-02-05 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Here again we find an Obama voter conflating the  Clintons with the Bushes, a la Nader 200.

by attorney at arms 2008-02-05 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

How can Obama be "any past president" of 2008?  He represents the future!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-05 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

AS much as I liked Bill Clinton for THE TIME, we don't need his redux in Obama.  We need a partisan fighter who will fight tooth and nails for our progressive ideals (which have also been largely adopted by the country) instead of watered-down (and with that worthless to progressives) legislation that does nothing but put band aids on existing problem and calls it reform.  As you rightly put it, Obama would be the triangulating candidate, but this is neither the right time nor the right place for that.  

by georgep 2008-02-05 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Obama is the triangulating candidate, rather than the spouse of the candidate who coined the phrase?  Rather than the person who urged Bill to rehire Dick Morris?  

If you say so.

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Obama is the triangulating candidate, rather than the spouse of the candidate who coined the phrase?

I don't see why this is so hard to believe. Between the two of them, he is certainly the triangulator on health care and social security at least.

Oh yeah, and McClurkin. That spinaround he did -- pretending that inviting a known bigot to speak at your microphone at your campaign rally was just "inviting a dialogue" -- was shameless.

I don't think Obama would be the end of the world. I'll happily support him in the general election if he is the nominee, and I would have killed to have a candidate like him in 2004. But Hillary is better, I think, so she gets my vote.

Regardless, he is clearly the triangulating candidate of this cycle. All of his rhetoric is aimed at "transcending" the left-right divide That is precisely the definition of triangulation: picking a position in the middle and "above" the left-right continuum so as to form a triangle. He doesn't even like to call himself a Democrat!

by Pender 2008-02-05 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I was responding to a poster who claims that Obama 2008 is the remade Bill Clinton.  Advance it forward to its logical conclusion.

Think about Obama's bi-partisan rhetoric (what else is that if not already setting up compromises between the parties, hence triangulation to "get things done") and ask yourself why Obama is only intent on sunsetting Bush's tax cuts (not to expire until 2012) rather than repealing them right away to immediately create the funds necessary to pay for health care, energy programs, etc.    

by georgep 2008-02-05 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Oh, I understood your point - I just think it's wrong.  First, Bill didn't run a "triangulating" campaign in '92.  That came later, after he and his team bungled the first two years in office and gave away Congress.  The '92 campaign, although clearly a "new democrat" campaign, had quite a bit populist appeal.

My point, which you really didn't respond to, is that HRC - by association and her explicit support for Bill's approach - has a proven record of triangulating.  We don't have to guess, she's actually done it.

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Why on earth do you believe that Obama wouldn't similarly bungle his first two years?  

Hillary sure wouldn't.

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Her history in the WH, when she was actually in charge of something, in poor.  You clearly view that as a lesson learned.  OK, maybe that's true.  I tend to view it as an example of her governing style and am skeptical of her ability to actually get something done.  I'll be the first to admit I could be wrong, but people's records do matter.  

Along those same lines, Obama has accomplished just as much as Senator Clinton in the US Senate -- which is to say, not much for either of them -- but he actually has a history of being a very effective legislator in Illinois.  That, along with the new, broad governing coalition that I see him creating, makes me think that he will have the skills necessary to actually enact real change.  Again, I could be wrong, but I think he's the safer bet for a progressive.

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I disagree with your points here.  Hillary has a strong legislative history that is not matched by Obama (who basically mailed it in in the Senate.)  The creation of SCHIP, a very successful health care program for kids, is largely due to Hillary's efforts (a remnant of the 1992 UHC battle and an effort to get to UHC eventually through the backdoor.)  Finally, to simply dismiss her early work is not at all correct.  The country may have not been ready for UHC at the time (health care cost per capita was about 20% to 30% higher than comparative countries) but is today (with per capita health care cost having mushroomed to 200% and 300% of comparable systems in other countries.)  Most of the readiness for UHC today is due to the attempts we made the last time a Democrat occupied the White House.  

by georgep 2008-02-05 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

SCHIP was created in 1997.  Unless I'm missing something, Hillary wasn't in the Senate then, so how exactly is that a "legislative accomplishment" of hers.  

I assume you're arguing that she was responsible for her husband's administration getting that passed.  That may very well be true, but it also proves my point that you can't simply claim all the good stuff from Bill's administration as her doing while deflecting the bad as "Bill's fault."  

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I could not disagree more.  Hillary was the progressive conscience of Bill.  Her fingerprints are all over every progressive legislation Bill fought for and signed, or did not get passed.   I don't think you have researched into this well enough, given the errant statements you are making here.

by georgep 2008-02-05 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

How exactly can you prove what parts of Bill's policies she supported and what parts she didn't support?  

If there is evidence that everything centrist was his idea and everything progressive was hers, show it to me and i'll concede the point.  Hell, I hope that's true since there's a good chance she will be my next president.  But I have yet to see any such proof.  To the contrary, most of the records related to her dealings at the WH remain sealed.

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

There have been numerous books written on the early Clinton presidency and the role Hillary played.  I don't have comprehensive quotes that I can link to, but if you are really interested, I'll find that stuff for you.  It is ob obviously an impression I have gathered over the years, which then has formed my opinion, just like you seem to take a lot of your Obama preference on a gut feeling that you are not really able to quantifying with evidence of a voting record, solid plans, etc.  

by georgep 2008-02-05 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

An experience argument, of the sort that you have made for Hillary, begs for evidence a bit more than an argument in favor of Obama's potential.  The latter is explicitly forward looking.  The former purports to be based on facts.  So I'm not sure they're the same thing.  To the extent that I've claimed accomplishments of Obama's, they are in fact quantifiable.  

As to Hillary specifically, I'm fine with giving her some of the credit for the things Bill did right.  But absent proof to the contrary, I will continue to hold his administration's failings against her as well.  In general, I suspect her WH would look a lot like his.  That's not terrible, by any stretch, but it's not what I'm looking for either.  

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Actually yes.  Yes - Hillary is married to Bill and was a key person in his administration. However, she is not the same person as Bill.  She is more progressive, she has different priorities, and she has less baggage.  

Also - these are DIFFERENT TIMES. We NEED someone who knows HOW to get things done.  Hillary is that person.  She knows exactly what needs to be done, because she watched Bill do it and then she watched George Bush systematically destroy the progress that Bill made.  Now - she knows how to get in there and how to reverse the past 7 years as quickly as possible.  She also knows how to run an oval office. She knows how to manage the bureaucracy.  She knows how to deal with Congress.  She has learned valuable lessons, particularly from her health care debacle of the 90s.  

We cannot afford, right now, at this time, a president who needs to learn on the job, all other things being equal. And Hillary is just as progressive, if not more progressive than Barack.  

Hillary is uniquely qualified to be president in 2009.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

HRC's "experience" argument is predicated in large measure on the accomplishment's of Bill's administration.  You can't argue that she should get credit for the good stuff without also having to take lumps for the bad stuff.  And, if you're a progressive, there was lots of bad stuff, including NAFTA, welfare reform, DOMA, the bungling of healthcare, don't ask don't tell, losing Congress for the first time in a generation, and literally creating the term and strategy of "triangulation."  

Are you saying that Hillary simply wasn't onboard with all of those "centrist" to conservative policies?  If so, she wasn't in the loop for most of the administration.  

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

You absolutely can argue that she gets credit for some things and does not credit for others -- similar to cabinet members and other advisors.

Yes - the record is murky. But let's look at what we know she was involved in vs. projects we know she wasn't involved in or don't know how involved she was.

As georgep said, the record clearly indicates that Hillary was Bill's progressive conscience.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Where is the proof of that?  I remember Hillary saying that they didn't have a left wing in the Clinton family and she was nothing but supportive at the time when Bill supported DOMA, NAFTA, and welfare reform.  She's entitled to change her mind, but I don't think she can credibly claim credit for her husband's successes withour sharing blame for his failures.  And there plent of the latter as well as the former.  

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

She has successes in some areas and some failures in others. She is not co-responsible for every single facet of his administration.  

One of the first things Hillary did when running for Senate in 2000 was differentiate herself from her husband in two specific areas I can think of off the top of my head: Don't Ask Don't Tell, and needle exchange funding.  

Nearly every time she's supported something that was seen as anti-progressive, it's been in her eyes (and the eyes of many objective onlookers), as a strategy to defeat the greater of two evils.

DOMA was clearly a strategy to overcome a Constitutional amendment, which would have passed overwhelmingly in the 90s and crippled the LGBT community.  (By the way - there are many, many touching stories about how comfortable Hillary made her LGBT staff people feel in the White House. She gets it. She's with us.)  Similarly, voting for the flag burning legislation was a strategy to avoid passing a flag burning Constitutional amendment. I think her war vote is problematic, but clearly she viewed it as a way to encourage inspections.  

By the way, there are several sources (books, articles, etc) that say that Hillary spoke out internally against several aspects of the welfare reform bill. Did you expect the First Lady to externally speak out against the administration? Similar to other advisors and cabinet members, she had to work for progressive change from within before going out and becoming an elected official in her own right.  

She's not perfect by any stretch. But we know what we're getting and I know where her heart lies.  

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm actually not arguing that she's terrible.  She's a much better candidate than we've had in awhile and would make a perfectly good president, so let me just be clear on that score.

That being said, I'm not sure anything you just posted addresses my point -- which fundamentally is that there is no way to accurately distill where her views differed from Bill's when Bill was actually making policy decisions.  The upshoot, in my view, is that she has tended to claim partial credit for what went right while disclaiming responsibility for Bill's more conservative positions.  

Now, to the extent that you think DOMA or her own ridiculous flag burning vote and war vote are defensible strategically, that's different.  I disagree with you, but that's at least a substantive defense.  Saying 8 years later that you disagreed about don't ask don't tell -- after most peole  had come around to the same position -- doesn't work for me.  

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Eh, honestly, I disagreed with the flag vote and war vote as strategy also. I'm just saying that the votes themselves don't mean she has some conservative agenda.

I actually did some work in 06 for a Democratic candidate who not only voted for the flag bill, but also for the flag amendment. That was difficult for me personally.  

As for her differences with Bill - I think that you can distill a lot of that if you read the books, study the behind the scenes history, and try to understand all the psychology.  I think the record (as written into history by the people who were there at the time) shows that Hillary was largely a progressive conscience for Bill during both his terms as president.

Interestingly, although she's often called a hawk and she has since become very comfortable with military issues, she was much more reluctant to use force than Bill in the 90s.    

by Turnpike Kid 2008-02-05 01:04PM | 0 recs
Me too!

My husband and I are going to the polls this afternoon to vote for her. in upstate NY.  Our son surrounded by an onslaught of Obama supporters at his ivy league college sent his Hillary ballot in yesterday.  The Obama voters I spoke to are moved by his inspirational speech but except for the speech against the war, seem to support him because he's more likely to beat a republican.  If he gets the nomination the repubs will cream him on his non-record.  Hillary has a lifetime of accomplishment and has done a fabulous job as senator.

by laternighter 2008-02-05 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I agree with this post on almost every single point.

What scares me is that Obama people are so hesitant about supporting Hillary.  I don't see the opposite of that being true.

Maybe that's because we don't think Hillary is perfect.  We know she's not ideal, but we're over it.

I have many, many problems with Hillary, not the least of which was her AUMF vote.  But I think she will deliver more progressive results than Obama.

The Obama people seem to think that they are going to "change" America into the age of aquarius or something.  I have no idea where they get that.  All I hear is a unity message that presupposes that the conservatives at in good faith.

They do not.

by attorney at arms 2008-02-05 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Obama

I remember the 1960 election. Todd based upon your reasoning, you would have supported Johnson over Kennedy in 1960.

Johnson would have lost the 1960 election to Nixon

I am voting for the future and change and the person that inspires us all to do better and appeals to the best in us. I guess that is what I remember and how I felt in the early 1960's.

But finally, I cannot forgive Hillary's vote to Authorize the Use of Force to invade Iraq and her vote against the Levin amendment. This is personal to me habe being a combat officer in Vietnam and having to write letter's to the survivor's of soldiers who died in my unit. I really felt and experienced war which sears your memory for life.

by BDM 2008-02-05 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Obama

Excuse me while I vomit. First off, Johnson didn't enter a single primary so that's an historical impossibility. Secondly, Kennedy ran to the right of Nixon as a Cold Warrior. Obama is no John Kennedy. Obama is a media fabrication and skilled self-promoter.

by JFK464 2008-02-05 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I totally agree with you. I'm an ardent Hillary supporter, but I will proudly support Obama as well, as would all of the Hillary supporters I know (and trust me, we really, really want Hillary as President). I love how Obama is galvanizing the youth vote - it's exciting to see! I totally give him props for that and think he may very well be a great President. I just worry that some of recent rhetoric has been a bit too centrist for my taste (a la social security, health care, the reagan references). But, I will happily support him if he gets the nod.

Now go to The Daily Kos and read the posts from Obama supporters. You woudl think Hillary (and Bill, cause you know they are one in the same :-)) are the antichrist in the flesh. Bizarre!!!

by Dari 2008-02-05 09:49AM | 0 recs
I'm Guessing This is Generational

Ironically, perhaps, I think HRC does better among progressives in the netroots who are younger.  I dont know how old you are Todd, but I am guessing you are in your 20s.  If that is the case, you just have no strong memory of what a right wing hack she is.  You have no memory of the Clintons selling out to Gingerich and the Republicans on tax cuts cuts and government spendig or of their total dishonesty.  You have no memory of Bill Clinton saying "the era of big government is over" or of Clinton blaming Congress for tax increases that he shoved down their throat. You have no memory of the Clintons ending aid to children with dependant children after five years, a position more conservative then Reagan ever took.  HRC has supported and defended all these actions.

I guess the only thing that she has done in this campaign that truly shows her colors is the semi-racist attacks on her opponent.  I have been, and remain, stunned that the blogosphere has not held that against her in any meaningful way.  That is the strongest testament to why we need more diversity on the "tubes" then anything I can think of.

by Andy Katz 2008-02-05 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

I think you have it bass ackwards.

I think the younger kids have taken up the MSM narrative about the 90s by osmosis and basically have repeated your line above.  Honestly, what was Clinton supposed to do with a Congress so hostile it impeached him?  Just legislate without them?  That would have been just like Bush.

That he accomplished anything and managed to be a good steward, win reelection, and keep high ratings is a miracle. And he beat them every time.  

Those of us, say, in their 30s remember that.  And we remember what happened we were told there was no difference between a "right wing tool," Al Gore, and the Republicans.

How did that work out for us?

by attorney at arms 2008-02-05 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

"I have been, and remain, stunned that the blogosphere has not held that against her in any meaningful way."

Have you visited Daily Kos lately? The blogosphere hasn't held anything against Hillary? Really. Are you for real?

by attorney at arms 2008-02-05 08:04AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

Were you around in the 90s? Obama supporters were either in diapers or clueless about what went on then. The clintons were attacked from every side. And held their own. And WON. The Republicans hate the Clintons because they are always beating them.  And it won't be any different this time.

Lest you forget, the 90s were a period of great growth, prosperity and jobs.  And Americans care about that. They will show you today. No amount of idealistic college kids with an Obama crush will beat that.  

by Mar154 2008-02-05 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

We're not all kids....

I was there in the 90s. The Clinton's arrived as a clueless pair, who did nothing but break our hearts over and over again. It took them an entire term to learn how to govern.

They failed to effectively promote just about any progressive cause possible: They either lost (health care reform, welfare reform, energy tax, control of Congress) or they were co-opted away from progressive to conservative policies: economics, Nafta, banking and Telecom deregulation...The list goes on.

You might think the 90s were great, and they were due in part to his fiscal policy, but a progressive renaissance this was not.

I bet with a Clinton II presidency, we get a return to the same. I do not have faith in her ability to enact or promote a progressive agenda.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

Depiste what both the media and sometimes her own campaign snafu's might suggest, she really can't be held for everything Bill did. She was always more of traditional liberal than Bill was.

by alexmhogan 2008-02-05 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

You took the words right out of my mouth. although I was struggling with how to say it in a kind way. From what I can tell many of the on-the-fence-bloggers are younger and were not around in 1991-1998. They got involved at impeachment, or later during Bush vs. Gore, or not til 9/11, or maybe not even until the Iraq war, or many many bloggers didn't get active until Dean in 2004. There was a lot of day light between Bill's election in '92, and impeachment and Howard Dean...

Sometimes I am shocked by the naivety on the blogs. I think it all comes from the average age of some of the front page bloggers. At least the msm reporters have an institutional memory and are more likely to identify the Clinton flaws in a more honest way.

Hillary is a likable enough person--as was Bill. But there is a time to turn the political page, give history a little push,--especially when you have the opportunity with a well-funded, well-liked, intellegent, and inspirational alternative.

Mark my words, the democrats will regret the day they nominate Hillary Clinton for President.

by aiko 2008-02-05 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Guessing This is Generational

Thank you, Andy.

I remember too, because I was there. I worked in Washington and saw the Clinton's cave at every possible battle, then turn around and blame the progressives.

But this isn't about age, it's about a perspective trying to be pragmatic, but lacking accurate information.


by wolff109 2008-02-05 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

It's strange that a vote for Obama would be a deal-breaking "leap of faith" for you when, in your own words, it also requires a "leap of faith" to believe that Clinton would govern in a manner inconsistent with her voting record.  Is one leap greater than the other?  And, how does your statement that she will get behind progressive causes, because those tend to be in vogue and the Democrats control Congress, speak to her leadership qualities?  If the Democrats lose Congress, does that mean we can look forward to more flag-burning legislation?  

Basically, your argument is that you like Hillary's sales pitch better than Obama's, and for that you're willing to overlook her record.  

by rfahey22 2008-02-05 08:02AM | 0 recs
Is the country breaking from Barack?

In the last day of polling before NH, something changed - and the pollster did not notice until it was too late. Rasmussen, for instance, had the race dead even on the final day, but the mechanics of the tracking poll hid the effect.

Rasmussen and Gallup, though, both have a huge movement in yesterday's national polling: Hillary is way up, and Barack is way down. The sample individual sample sizes are on the small side, but they both have Barack nailed around the 35% mark - Hillary's number is volatile.

Rasmussen: 47-35
Gallup: 55-34

Average: 51-35

The underlying data since 28 Jan:

Gallup    Polling             Tracker    
    HRC    BO         HRC      BO

28-Jan    45    36         43      34
29-Jan    40    38         42      36
30-Jan    43    43         43      39
31-Jan    45    42         43      41
01-Feb    56    37         48      41
02-Feb    37    53         46      44
03-Feb    48    40         47      43
04-Feb    55    34         47      42

Ras    Polling             Tracker    
    HRC    BO         HRC      BO

28-Jan    42    33         41      32
29-Jan    40    32         41      32
30-Jan    44    41         42      35
31-Jan    46    37         43      37
01-Feb    45    34         45      37
02-Feb    56    43         49      38
03-Feb    38    43         46      40
04-Feb    47    35         47      40

Average    Polling             Tracker    
    HRC    BO         HRC      BO

28-Jan     44      35          42      33
29-Jan     40      35          41      34
30-Jan     44      42          42      37
31-Jan     46      40          43      39
01-Feb     51      36          47      39
02-Feb     47      48          48      41
03-Feb     43      42          47      42
04-Feb     51      35          47      41

by Nordicus 2008-02-05 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Is the country breaking from Barack?

You might be right. Very interesting.

by JFK464 2008-02-05 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I have been reading a lot on myDD but have never posted anything since four years ago when Kerry lost the general election.

I am surprised to see that you voted for Clinton because I got the idea from one of your old posts that you supported Obama.

The reason prompted me to respond to this post is because I actually went through a similar process as you.

Four years ago, I supported John Edwards in the primary.  Hillary was never on my radar screen.  I once told my wife (eight years ago) that I would never vote for Hillary Clinton.  If it came down to Hillary and Bush, I simply don't vote and if it came down to Hillary and MaCain, I would vote for MaCain.

The reason is I always thought that Hillary is where she is all because of Bill Clinton.  She, like many politician's spouse who later became politicians themselves, has no idea how to be a good politician.  Plus, I had the idea that she is not genuine.

Of course, my idea came not because I knew her or ever seen her or talk to her.

But she started change me with her work as a US senator and the fact that she actually won the heart of a majority of New Yorkers through her work.

Then the election season brought her to my TV screen and I was able to listen to her and other candidates talk.  Like four years ago, I expected myself to back John Edwards.  But over the course of late Fall last year, I became warm to her mainly because I think my perception of her was quite wrong.  She is very smart and has a firm grasp with a lot of policy issues.  Through these debates, I find her also a very interesting person, very different from what I though of her.

I live in Michigan so I didn't get to cast a useful vote for her but I called my Asian friends in California last night and they will all vote for Hillary Clinton (some have already done so).

I am hoping an asian bloc vote in California for Hillary.

(I prefer Obama over MaCain)

by gort256 2008-02-05 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton


I know you might deny this, but your endorsement of Hillary Clinton is a bold one, considering the prevailing winds of much of the left-of-center blogosphere.  My only criticism is the timing of your endorsement, but at least you have chosen not to perpetuate an appearance of any charade-like reporting by coming out and telling your readers where you stand.  Well done.


by bslev22 2008-02-05 08:09AM | 0 recs
Thoughtful Post

Certainly a thoughtful post and I commend you for your balanced coverage during the campaign.  I disagree with your ultimate choice, but certainly respect it.

Two quibbles though.  First, you gloss over your "leap of faith" that HRC will govern in a more progressive manner than her Senate record and her husband's administration would indicate.  In my view, that's certainly as big a leap of faith as that which a vote for Obama would require.  I'll support Hillary if she wins the nomination, just like I supported Bill, but their track-record is not a progressive one.  It's not bad, per se, but it's not progressive.  I have little hope that she will govern in a different manner once elected, but time will tell.

Second, you seem to criticize Obama for a lack of specificity, and that strikes me as odd.  It's not the basis of his appeal, but his white papers are proposals are every bit as detailed and precise as Hillary's.  The press hasn't focused on that, but it doesn't mean that the info isn't out there.  To the extent you disagree with those proposols, fair enough.  But the indirect assertion that he is somehow not running on substantive plans is, I think unfair.

by HSTruman 2008-02-05 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Thoughtful Post

Yes. The press hasn't focused on Obama's proposals at all. They're too busy readying the crown.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

The other point of view, equally cogent in its reasoning, equally fair:

The Choice, Christopher Hayes, The Nation

The central argument is that Obama will be best able to build popular support for a progressive agenda.

I believe that we ignore the independent voters and the young voters who are very drawn to Obama at our peril.

by LY of Brooklyn 2008-02-05 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Right on the money. I doubt Clinton will carry independent voters. I believe Obama would.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

No matter what you think, the facts are that she has carried plenty of Independents in all the voting so far.

I will take reality over what you think

by WMCB 2008-02-05 11:35AM | 0 recs
In my best Capt. Renault

I am shocked, SHOCKED to find HRC support at MyDD.

by zonk 2008-02-05 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: In my best Capt. Renault

As shocked as I was to see Daily Kos turn into Obama Jesus land overnight.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

It is amazing to me that nobody has commented on the immense similarities we can expect between the Bush 43 presidency and a Clinton 44 presidency.

From day 1, Bush 43 had to contend not only with the complexities of the presidency, but also with the complexities of parent-child dynamics.  "Daddy didn't finish off Saddam, but I can, I'll show him up."  "Daddy didn't go right wing enough on Supreme Court appointments, I can out-do him."  Rather than primarily and ONLY thinking of the good of the country, he got caught up in considering his internal feelings about his father and his place in his family.  And yes, I'm sure a psychologist could explain it much better than I can.

This brings me to my major concern about Hillary Clinton.  She will, at each decision point, have to process both (a) what is best for the country, and (b) what she wants vis-a-vis her (very complex) relationship with her husband.  Bill didn't go into Rwanda, so I'll show him up, I'll overcommit in any similar situation.  Bill closed the budget deficit, so I'll close it faster, whether it is good for the country or not.

Dynastic presidencies are not bad for the reason most commentators cite -- some thought that there is an anti-democratic aspect.  Rather, dynastic presidencies are bad -- critically bad -- because children and spouses have enormous psychological overlays that will systematically cloud their judgment and impair their ability to prioritize the good of the country above all.

We don't need four years of Hillary competing with Bill's legacy.  Rather, we need a president who will focus only the good of the nation.  For that reason alone (although there are many others), Obama is a far superior choice for President.

by garys 2008-02-05 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

So do you just pull these things out of your ass or make them up as they come? Your analysis is full of lies, mistruths and assumptions about what she will do. She has shown as Senator from NY she is nothing like her husband (who, BTW, was a great President).  

Is this the new Obama go-to? Scare people into voting for him?  Your guy just can't win on merit, because other than great oratorical skills, he's got absolutely none.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I love pschobabble from the untrained. (Smell sexism here? I think I might. Hillary is not Bill's child).

by JFK464 2008-02-05 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

The point is that there is an unnecessary overlay in a dynastic presidency.  I'd imagine the competition between spouses would be even more intense and disruptive than that between Bush 41 and Bush 43.

The only recent experience we have with a dynastic family (no, lets not go all the way back to John Quincy Adams and John Adams) turned out quite badly.  I've often wondered if what turned a conservative but at least nominally bipartisan governor Bush into a radical right wing president was competition with his dad.  The familial wildcard -- whether it is parent/child or spousal -- is too big a risk in my mind.

by garys 2008-02-05 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Wise choice, Mr. Beeton.  I think that many Democrats are coming to two conclusions:

1) She's a fighter, and we will need one

2) She simply knows her shit, up one side and down the other, 6 ways from Sunday.

by WMCB 2008-02-05 08:17AM | 0 recs
Still undecided

Good post; not sure if I agree with you yet but I don't get to vote 'till next week so I still have time to make up my mind. Was an Edwards guy and do lean Obama but his vaugeness and post-partisan talking points are really getting on my nerves cause I know it's a fantasy. A quote from Saturday's New York Times sums my frustration with him:  

"I want an Alan Blinder, and I want a Jacob Hacker, and I want a Bob Rubin, and I want a Robert Reich," (Obama) said, referring to a mix of centrist and more liberal Democratic economic advisers. "And I want a good robust argument about where we need to go."

Rubin and Hacker? So what will he do when both of them give him diametrically opposed advice?

Clinton is like a rusty bicycle; it ain't much, but you know it will get you where you need to go. Obama is like a shiny gift box; looks exciting but you really won't know what you got until you open it.

by alexmhogan 2008-02-05 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

....Because you drank the kool aid so long ago, you've forgotten what objectivity looks like.

And don't expect progressive government from her. I was there for the first Clinton dynasty. We kept waiting....it never came. Expect more of the same from her.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

"I was an Edwards supporter before coming over to the Clinton camp"

Oops, my bad. Had the brand of kool aid wrong. Your consistently anti-Obama posts suggested pro-Clinton.

But if you think Clinton will usher in an era of progressive change, than you're on crack, not kool aid.

As fantastic as a politician as she is, I highly doubt hers will be any different from the Bill Clinton administration. After all, she was a key advisor then. Isn't that why she counts those years on her resume as White House experience?

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

You laid out the case perfectly Todd. I thought you would be more for Obama but I guessed wrong. To the people who just want to call Hillary the DLC candidate, really give it up. She has run a more progressive campaign than her husband did in 1992. I've hardly seen the case the Obama has run a more progressive campaign at all.

by Christopher Lib 2008-02-05 08:21AM | 0 recs
I'm Voting For Obama

I'm voting for Obama in 2016 if he does two things:

a) Serves as an inspiration for Democratic Party ideals and motivating young people to make a commitment to the party.

b) Spends a few years with his nose to the grindstone gaining experience, mastering the issues, and building an unassailable record of accomplishment.

If he does these things, he will be the perfect candidate to continue a Democratic majority.

by hwc 2008-02-05 08:21AM | 0 recs
I was ready to contribute to MyDD but,...

having read this post, I'll send my contribution in another direction.  With only a limited amount avaiable to contribute, I must make informed choices.

by mchughusa 2008-02-05 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I was ready to contribute to MyDD but,...

Yes, you should make sure that whoever you give your money to agrees with you hands down and without question on everything.  Heaven forbid you should donate to a site that provides quality but has a contributor who disagrees with you.  It's your nickel.

by bslev22 2008-02-05 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thanks for the well thought out diary!  My husband also preferred Obama for quite a while, but in the past couple of months he's been starting to lean Hillary as he started to look at their past exprience and votes more closely, and wonder how much substance there is behind Obama's inspiring speeches.

At Yearly Kos last August, he went to the Obama session while I went to the Hillary session.  He admitted to being a bit underwhelmed by Obama while I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked Hillary in person (until Yearly Kos, I was undecided). I  like that she stands up for herself and doesn't apologize for who she is and the decisions she's made, even the ones I don't agree with.

Last night we watched Hillary's "town hall" event online (no Hallmark TV on our cable lineup) and I think that's what closed the deal for him. He likes smart, strategic and capable women :)

However we'll both happily vote for Obama if he ends up with the nomination.  Any Dem is better then any Repug!

Now I'm headed to the middle school, a block away from our house, to cast my primary vote for Hillary.

by dragoneyes 2008-02-05 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

We have a chance to bring untold numbers of new and young voters into the democratic party and keep them there with an Obama nomination.

So, you are still ruled by fear that HRC is the safe pick? That she can eke out a 51-49 win?

You want real change in america..you get a supermajority in congress as a result of a tremendously motivated new, and young voter block in the fall. Then Obama can make progressive change whether a few die hard reactionarys in congress go along or not.

Nominate HRC... those young and new voters? they are disillusioned, dispirited, and all the air goes out of the democratic balloon. She can win a close contest..congress stays close to 50-50 and we face a tough re-election in 2012 with a non-productive HRC back on the ticket.

Please, drop the fear of actually pushing thru the walls in DC and embrace a new democratic majority where there is actual pressure on the dems to not just be partisan but get something done.

You do not have to be partisan when you are dominating congress..you just do what you want..with HRC..back to the gridlock.

by hawkjt 2008-02-05 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I believe you're the one selling fear here. If young Democrats decide that if they're guy isn't the nominee, they won't vote...I got news. They're not real Democrats.  And I'm okay with that. Hillary will win because Real Democrats who know she's a fighter and will beat down the Republicans have seen her do it for decades.

by Mar154 2008-02-05 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

That she can eke out a 51-49 win?

I would point out that in the absolutely critical swing state of Florida, without setting foot in the state, Hillary clobbered all the contenders including McCain, Romney, and Obama in that order.

Hillary's coalition of blue collar Dems, Latino/a voters, and enthusiastic turnout of women voters is a powerful electoral college weapon.

by hwc 2008-02-05 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Also, Obama statements that FL doesn't count. Might not go over too well with some voters in FL.

by MOBlue 2008-02-05 09:56AM | 0 recs
Do your homework, next time


Hillary is the DLC centrist, so it's disingenuous to say you're choosing her because she's somehow more progressive.

You see him as running to the right on policy. I just don't see it.

Did you actually study his policy proposals, or are you just basing this on hearing their stump speeches and debates?

You should read, "Audacity of Hope" and check out his Web site before you say he's short on policy. You may not agree with it, but don't accuse Obama of lacking specifics.

Calling Obama the second coming of Ronald Reagan... Blatant smear.

You believe Hillary's health care proposal is somehow more progressive, as if minute, technical differences in their proposals -- crafted solely for political not policy purposes -- are the basis for your choice.


They're both running to the right on this issue. Compare universal coverage vs. single payer vs. national health care.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Do your homework, next time

On a less critical note, it is a good post and well-written. It is good you made your preferences public. You do a good service articulating the thoughts of many Hillary supporters.

by wolff109 2008-02-05 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Do your homework, next time

You raise an interesting point when you say that we should read 'The Audacity of Hope' to understand Obama.  I wonder, to what extent should we understand our candidates from a book they wrote, and to what extent should we rely on the debates.  Should I assume Clinton is socialist because of 'It Takes a Village.'  It would be hard for me to do that.  Similarly, I am skeptical that Obama's words in Audacity will be reflected in his politics - so far they are not.

As for the Ronald Reagan comments....yes, I believe Hillary intentionally misquoted him and twisted Obama's meaning.  However, was she not reacting to the way Bill's 'Fairytale' comment was also intentionally twisted.  That was a clear indication of Obama camp misusing the race card.

Either way, I agree that both are more to the right than we know.  However, I feel that they are equally less progressive than we know.  

This has been an amazing primary.  Those voters who call themselves liberal and progressive ignored the truly progressive candidate which was Edwards. Why is that?  Why are they jumping on the progressive bandwagon now?  It is weird.  

by findthesource 2008-02-05 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Excellent post!  You've expressed many of my own feelings, although I've been a Clinton supporter from the get-go.  Even so, I've given Obama a chance to convince me why I should change my allegiance, but he hasn't done it.  Clinton has the knowledge, experience, ability, and intelligence it's going to take to clean up the huge mess Bush will leave behind.  No amount of rhetoric from Obama can convince me that he's better equipped to pull that off than Hillary is.

by SoCal4Hillary 2008-02-05 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Ultimately, the preeminent issue for me in this election is which candidate I most trust with the life of my son.  In the end, I don't trust Hillary Clinton to keep us out of war, to promote peace, security and stability and thereby to keep my son alive and protect his future.  She's been too interested in pursuing the Dem-Lite version of the same Bush Middle East policy that has already dragged us into a costly military engagement and made that part of the world less stable.  She also seems far too personally insecure and concerned with projecting an appearance of toughness to actually be morally tough and follow the correct course when doing so requires political courage, inner confidence and sound judgment.

by Dan Kervick 2008-02-05 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Very good points!  Although I support Clinton, I see your point as well.  I, too, am worried about her slight insecurities.  She is so caught up in worrying that people will not see a woman as 'commander in chief.'  She needs to get over that.  

However,I am not sure she is more pro-war than Obama.  Besides the 2002 vote, there are other factors.  For example, all the candidates seem to want to send troops to Pakistan (potentially) and Obama seemed more aggressive about that than others. (referring to 8/2007 debate).  He repeated it in his speech after NH primary when he said we need to 'continue to conquer al-qaeda.'  Could that be his own insecurities that America may seem him as 'pro-muslim' because of his middle name. It's a silly argument, but you would be surprised at the crazy judgments people make based on a name.  

by findthesource 2008-02-05 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Wow. I'm shocked. Okay, not really. But kudos to you for finally acknowledging what was becoming glaringly obvious.

by keatsheart 2008-02-05 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Oooh, I love it!  You just said what I've been thinking all along.....I voted for Clinton proudly today.

by findthesource 2008-02-05 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I just find this mystifying... as someone who was so dissatisfied with Bill in the 90s that I voted for Nader in 2000 (I was 18, in my defense, I certainly wouldn't do it again) because I thought Gore was such a Clinton-ite, it's essentially never seriously occurred to me to support Hillary Clinton.

Don't you remember welfare reform, genocidal sanctions in Iraq, and the bombing of civilian infrastructure in Serbia?  

Or are you convinced that Hillary's politics are really that different than Bill's?

So yes, I have confidence in Hillary. Confidence that another Clinton administration, just like the first, will be four or eight years of cautious, finger-in-the-wind triangulation.  So I hope you're confident, too, that the wind'll keep blowing in a progressive direction.

But that's OK with you, I guess, so long as we get a candidate that'll call those Evil Republican nasty names.  

by seand 2008-02-05 08:48AM | 0 recs
Seand: no problem with genocide of Bosnian muslims

"the bombing of civilian infrastructure in Serbia"

Do you have the remotest idea of what was happening in the Balkans in the nineties. You seem to have no problems with Serbian rape and ethnic cleansing campaigns which were halted by the bombing campaign at relatively little cost in cash or lives.

by ottovbvs 2008-02-05 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Seand: no problem with genocide of Bosnian mus

I'm quite familiar with the case, actually; and obviously the genocide of Bosnian muslims was unconscionable. But this was case, I think, where, though NATO may have had jus ad bellum (the right to go to war) they violated clear, long-standing requirements of jus in bello (constraints on the conduct of war). Among other things, they bombed bridges, the power supply and even television stations.

Similar tactics were used in the 'shock and awe' phase of the Iraq war. In both cases, attacks on civilian infrastructure were violations of international law and hence, I think, examples of unilateralist cowboy diplomacy.

I'm glad you commented, since it gives the opportunity to emphasize just how important this issue is: though Bill's foreign policy never rose to the levels of incompetence and heinousness that we've witnessed in the past 7 years, the Clinton legacy on foreign policy is not something we as Americans should be proud of.

by seand 2008-02-05 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thanks, Todd--my story exactly.

by Thaddeus 2008-02-05 08:49AM | 0 recs
He is a Man with a Plan

Not only can he inspire - he can carry out that plan. For all those who think he is all fluff and no substance please see:

Obama Blueprint for Change
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlue printForChange.pdf

by mageduley 2008-02-05 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: He is a Man with a Plan

Hey Mageduly:

I have to respond to your post because you bring up an interesting point.  Obama's website and his book promote wonderful ideas, philosophies, etc., but why is it those progressive ideas are not reflected in the debates.  I never heard him once promote a plan for peace...instead he is as interested in combat in Pakistan as the other candidates.  

Also, his website notes the corruption of corporate politics, and yet, in contrast, he (1) receives funding from insurance companies, and (2) voted AGAINST an act that would prohibit credit card issuers from charging upwards of 30% APR.  

I know Clinton is not perfect, but I feel Obama's words and actions are in direct conflict.

My vote is for Clinton.  She doesn't pretend to be progressive or liberal when she is not.  With her, what we see is what we get.

by findthesource 2008-02-05 09:25AM | 0 recs
Substance trumps fluff!

The triumph of substance over fluff!  Cheers!

by BigBoyBlue 2008-02-05 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thanks for being a bit of sanity in a fanboy world.

by cc 2008-02-05 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Here's a couple more reasons not to support Hillary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heegk0702 6I

"...Hillary will be good for America... we'll be very pleased that she's president." -- Lynn Forester de Rothschild, Portfolio magazine, October 5, 2007  (The Rothschilds are major share holders in the Fed)

by websmith 2008-02-05 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Major shareholders in the Fed? The Fed is a public institution charged with managing monetary policy with the goals of avoiding inflation and recession. You clearly know as much about banking as you do about the relative merits of the candidates.    

by ottovbvs 2008-02-05 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Please...I know Hill gets funding from corporations, lobbyist, but don't think for a second that Obama does not.  It kills me how he has convinced America.  The Grateful Dead? Come on now......

by findthesource 2008-02-05 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Very nice. I believe what happened to you (the more you listen to her, the more you believe in her) will happen to many many other Americans (i've already seen it happen with a conservative military person who HATED her but now is supporting her after listening to her ideas)

Again, good job

by werd2406 2008-02-05 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Todd, I think that it would all but be impossible to be on staff at MyDD and support Obama. You are among  friends.

by aiko 2008-02-05 09:03AM | 0 recs
"I'm voting for Osama"

Just got back from voting and met three old ladies of my acquaintance. Two voted for Hillary excited by the prospect of woman president and her obvious competence. The third said she voted for Osama! American democracy at work I guess. The polling place btw was busy. It's very high end Republican town on CT shore.

by ottovbvs 2008-02-05 09:09AM | 0 recs
I sorta wish I could support Obama

But that part of me died in a California hotel when I was twelve.

by Judeling 2008-02-05 09:15AM | 0 recs
I Voted For Hillary Clinton

I cannot forgive Obama for talking about Reagan with anything that doesn't border on contempt.

I cannot forgive Obama for using the Republican talking point 'Social Security crisis'

I cannot support Obama for not supporting health care mandates.

I cannot support Obama for not promising to end the Bush millionaire tax cuts.

And finally, I cannot support Obama for being so naive as to think that both parties are responsible for the divisivess in our gov't today.

by Runstadrey 2008-02-05 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Had anyone told me a year ago that I would be voting for Clinton, I would have been dismayed.

I stayed in the waiting for Gore group until the very last and eventually decided on Edwards. My final migration to Hillary is based on many of the reasons stated in Todd's diary and what I've seen in your diaries. Will she be perfect. No, but at least I don't have to turn myself inside out to believe that she is a Democrat. There  is much work to be done in this country and I trust Hillary to get it done.

I am now really comfortable with my decision.

by MOBlue 2008-02-05 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

So the very same day you write about how Clinton is going to be a partisan fighter for the democrats, she announces that she wants to debate on Fox News. Wow, what timing.

by Nautilator 2008-02-05 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I thought reaching out to Republicans was a good idea? At least people say it is when Obama does it.

by OrangeFur 2008-02-05 10:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

You take the battle to where they are.  Not to mention, Obama has appeared on Fox, plenty.  So spare me the hypocrisy for which his campaign has become famous.

by WMCB 2008-02-05 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Clinton is a big "whatever" to me.  I mean, I'd take her over any of the Republicans, but I'm not excited by a Clinton Restoration.  Bill wasn't particularly progressive, and Senator Clinton seems to be surrounded with loads of the same people (the Carville/Emanuel/DLC types, not to mention Bill himself).

The other issue I have is coattails.  Obama's bringing a ton of new and young Democrats into the party, and a lot of Republicans are indifferent towards him.  Clinton motivates the Republicans and gives them a reason to come out and vote.  There is no sure thing, but it seems like Obama can win with a bigger margin, which would be good for our House and Senate candidates.

by CranesAreFlying 2008-02-05 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

A very rational and well thought out assessment of the Democratic process so far.  Well done.  Two things about her that I've noticed, is that she's a lot more progressive than I expected, and she's a literalist.  She has come out in favor of partner benefits and explains it by saying "they're your benefits, you should be able to do with them what you want."  That's about as progressive as you can get. As for literalist, she's a lawyer, there is no such thing as a 'spirit of the law', so when she believes something, you know it's going to have substance and will be hard to refute.  I also saw her ability to learn and to take the learning process to heart, this being what I saw after her win in NH. What we have to do as a community is to let her win the presidency and give her as progressive a congress as we can do.  Possibly write off any further attention on the presidential election and concentrate all our resources to flipping the congress to whole range of progressive programs.

by Andre 2008-02-05 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Two earlier posts by demoinesdem and someone else really intrigued me.  They basically said what I've been trying to get through to the MYDD fan base.  UNFORTUNATELY I think were in trouble regardless of who gets the DEM nominee.  Let me tell you why.  INHO I don't think the U.S will elect a woman or A.A over a John McCain.  The only chance we have is if the economy REALLY goes in the tank or if the war in Iraq reverts to the pre-surge violence between now and November.  I think it's truly sad but right now I think John Edwards was right, when he said he was the only dem that could beat McCain. UNFORTUNATELY it didn't hit home with most of our base.  Ive once said if John Warner or AL Gore were running we would be a LOCK to win in November.  I guess only time will tell if I'm right.
p.s I hope/pray that I'm WRONG!!


by nzubechukwu 2008-02-05 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Arrgghh! Hillary is political suicide for the Dems.

In terms of practice and policy, Obama vs. Hillary is a wash. They will appoint the same types of advisors and cabinet secretaries. There would not be an ideological distinction between Obama's judiciary appointees and Clinton's.

This is a case of the "issues" being overrated. What the candidates are saying now doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I don't see either of them governing very differently from one another.

What's PARAMOUNT for the Democrats is that they elect someone who can stay in longest, not succeed in uniting the Republicans, and lose the fewest congressional seats at the mid-term. We need to make judiciary appointees and staff bureaus and agencies with progressive-minded people and we need to be able to do it for a LONG TIME before the pendulum swings back to the Republicans.

If you want the Contract With America all over again.... if you want Whitewater 2.0, Monica 2.0, and in fact run a greater risk of LOSING this coming fall, then vote for Hillary.

by marquinho 2008-02-05 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

You know, Todd, after our back and forth exchange a few days ago, I thought you were firmly in the Obama camp.  I'll endorse today, and I guess we'll have to compare notes at the end.  I can tell you put thought into this, and I'm proud that were so neutral for so long.

by ejintx 2008-02-05 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thanks for a cogent and well-reasoned piece. Your argument in favor of Hillary means more especially because of your immersion in the whole process for these many months and because of your initial reservation. I do appreciate the forensic honesty of how you eventually arrived at your decision. After all, in the end, democracy is ultimately about reason. Your explanation is much appreciated.

by superetendar 2008-02-05 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Thanks for this excellent post. I've also come from hoping that Hillary Clinton wouldn't run at all to being an enthusiastic supporter.

In 2000, with everything going so well, the country thought it was okay to take a chance on an inexperienced leader who preached unity. In 2008, with the country in a gigantic mess, we need someone who knows what she's doing. Down to the last details. Obama might be good. Clinton definitely will be.

Is she too centrist? She's the one who fought for UHC in 1994, and is fighting for it again in 2008. Obama won't even try and is arguing against it. She's not the one who hired an ex-gay singer and refused to take a picture with Gavin Newsom. She's not the one who says Social Security is in crisis or talked in approving terms about Ronald Reagan.

Do the Republicans hate her? Sure they do. And they hated Al Gore, John Kerry, and Bill Clinton, too. Why? Because they hate Democrats. Personally, I want to tell the GOP to stuff it. It's my party, and they don't get to choose my nominee.

Does Obama bring in new voters? Certainly turnout has been high this year, even in states whose delegates have been removed. But Hillary has won four of the six states so far. If he's turning out that many new voters, it's odd that so many of them are voting for Hillary.

Hillary Clinton is immensely smart, exceptionally well-prepared, and a legendarily hard worker. She'll work her heart out every single day to do what's right. She has my support, my trust, and my vote.

by OrangeFur 2008-02-05 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton
Good reasons to vote for Hillary.
A few years ago I was in upstate NY-Republican country.  Small, local newpaper reported that Sen. Clinton had brought New York City restraunteurs to visit NY winemakers, sample the local wines.  Good solid work from a good Senator.
I'll vote for her, too.
by CLK 2008-02-05 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I see that now Hillary has cozied up to Rupert Murdoch and is now challenging Obama to come on her new favorite network, FoxNews, and debate her.

FoxNews,Hillary Clinton,MyDD...three peas in a pod now?


by hawkjt 2008-02-05 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Bravo!  The resounding anti-Clinton bias on this blog was getting to me.  Thank you, Todd, for speaking up for Hillary.  

by charon789 2008-02-05 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

A very good article. Honest and thought provoking.

by albagubrath 2008-02-05 11:24AM | 0 recs
Fox News

"First is that I know she will be a partisan warrior. I'm not ready to give up the fight that they started but that we've been waging over the past several years; I'm not ready to give in to the Broders and Brooks's who insist both parties are equally culpable in the havoc that the Bush administration and a Republican congress has wrought and that unity, in and of itself, is the answer."

-- Todd Beeton

I hope your check (ahem vote) has not been cashed yet.

Being a cynic I expect both candidates to validate right wing frames.

But Hillary a partisan fighter? Yeah. Going on Fox when every Dem candidate so far has put them in place for being so virulently partisan. And is Karl Rove going to be the moderator of this debate?

I guess she needs to dip into the Murdoch well once again since Jan was a relatively slow month.

I am deeply concerned about Obama's "unity" message. We've seen how bi-partisan compromise has worked out  in the past - accept the right wing position. But this takes the cake - Fox does not even pretend to be fair and balanced. At the end of the day all one needs to do is look who are some of Hillary's key advisors - Penn, McAuliffe, Emmanuel.

Between triangulation and post-partisan what is a progressive voter to do?

by ab initio 2008-02-05 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Fox News

   I would rather have a candidate who believes she  can take on the right-wing media and win (and indeed, she has been doing that for the past 16 years), than one who perceives then as being so strong (or himself so weak), that he can't.

  Further, if Obama doesn't go on the right-wing media, that runs philosophically counter to his statement that he would meet with the leaders of hostile nations without precondition on the premise that America is so strong that we don't need to set conditions.

  (And before you ask, no, the reverse is not contradictory for Hillary, since the fact that she's so soundly beaten them in the past amounts to a precondition...that being said, even before she beat them she believed she could and didn't back down until she succeeded - that Obama doesn't believe he can is not what I want to hear from him).

   Even further, who gives money to whom is not an issue unless it changes their vote: JFK/RFK took money from the mob, then broke them; Bill Clinton took money from the tobacco companies then sued them (successfully) for a judgment of $200 billion plus (effectively) 90% of their future revenues.


by SergeiRostov 2008-02-06 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Todd, thanks for writing that.

Dear Trolls,
Get off the guy's back.


by William 2008-02-05 12:02PM | 0 recs
Todd, I think I love you. :)

by masslib1 2008-02-05 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton
Todd - Despite all the hype and pressure, you are one excellent independent thinker.  I could not have said it better. No wonder I got so interested in your posts, watching your brain grapple with these issues and the incessant fashion to conform to the flavor of the month.  Here's hoping that it all works out because this gal (as Taylor March says) is  "scary smart" and can take a punch.  All of Hillary's policy initiatives are right for our present dilemma.
We were very involved with the Clinton presidency here on the east coast. It was a boon to ordinary people and a helluva lot of fun - the White House was open to people - nothing like it is today.  
Thanks for all your good work and clear thinking.
by gbayliss 2008-02-05 12:23PM | 0 recs

I apologize for all of the previous jabs I've taken at you for tweaking Hillary. Great post, and I thank you for having had an open mind about her after all.

by bowiegeek 2008-02-05 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Great choice, big applause.  I thought the same thing recently about the "unity" theme.  The Republicans have obstructed bill after bill this year- what has Obama done to make ANY of them cross the ailse.  If he could point to one thing and say "Republicans were going to deadlock this but I convinced several to come over to our side," I might be more inclined to believe what he keeps saying, but there's been "nothing."  In fact, he ducked two of the most visible votes- the MOVEON and Kyle/Lieberman.  A week after the Kyle/Lieberman vote, he went on and on about how important and crucial that vote was, how it was practically giving Bush the go-ahead fo war and yet he never said ONE WORD about the vote before it happened and only said he was against several hours after it was voted on and there was a debate that day and not ONE WORD from him about it (Edwards had plenty to say, though)  It just seems to me he is hoping everything will come together without doing anything while Hillary has actual plans to make things happen.  She's going to work for it while he is just going to hope it happens.  That's one reason I'm for Hillary.

by reasonwarrior 2008-02-05 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton
Thank you, Todd Beeton!!!!!! You make me proud to be a Democrat!!!!!
by nance 2008-02-05 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

As a Republican and McCain supporter, I too want Hillary to win the Democratic nomination. She and McCain are the only two politicians that know enough about the state of the country to carry on in these troubled days. I'm surprised Hillary supporters haven't come up with the nickname "sexy sadie" for BO - from Beatles white album - read the words to the song and you'll see what I mean. See you in the presidential debates!

by soothsayer 2008-02-05 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm with you Todd.  The deal maker for me was the NY Times story this week on Obama's representation as US Senator of his Illinois constituents on nuclear leaks.  That is the clear tale of someone who went from representing the concerns of people to accepting nuclear industry written language that clearly caved on the initial issue.  What comes through about Clinton is that she takes this election and the prospect of being the first woman president totally, sincerely.  She will work for the agenda she has proposed until she drops.  She will be the warrior that will give this Democratic party the backbone it has not had for a long, long time.  I would also mention to those recalling the B Clinton presidency---say what you will about the welfare reform legislation, what Clinton did with funding more cops for community policing---such things took away issues that were killing Dems at the polls.  This election is about that Clinton New Democrat approach and the old line Kennedy machine.  As much as I loved the Kennedy years, without JFK we could not bring the dream to life and we have paid a terrible price in Republican rule.  Obama is does not have nearly the bonafides of a JFK.  He is an excellent candidate but it bothers me when someone gets elected to the US Senate and does not bother to complete his first term.  I don't know if HRC can beat Obama;  he has so much media support and the anti-Hillary stuff is so toxic that it may well overwhelm her.  I am preparing myself for an Obama landslide today but I will definitely end this day thinking and knowing that HRC is our best shot.

by jangles 2008-02-05 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I'm with you Todd.  The deal maker for me was the NY Times story this week on Obama's representation as US Senator of his Illinois constituents on nuclear leaks.  That is the clear tale of someone who went from representing the concerns of people to accepting nuclear industry written language that clearly caved on the initial issue.  What comes through about Clinton is that she takes this election and the prospect of being the first woman president totally, sincerely.  She will work for the agenda she has proposed until she drops.  She will be the warrior that will give this Democratic party the backbone it has not had for a long, long time.  I would also mention to those recalling the B Clinton presidency---say what you will about the welfare reform legislation, what Clinton did with funding more cops for community policing---such things took away issues that were killing Dems at the polls.  This election is about that Clinton New Democrat approach and the old line Kennedy machine.  As much as I loved the Kennedy years, without JFK we could not bring the dream to life and we have paid a terrible price in Republican rule.  Obama is does not have nearly the bonafides of a JFK.  He is an excellent candidate but it bothers me when someone gets elected to the US Senate and does not bother to complete his first term.  I don't know if HRC can beat Obama;  he has so much media support and the anti-Hillary stuff is so toxic that it may well overwhelm her.  I am preparing myself for an Obama landslide today but I will definitely end this day thinking and knowing that HRC is our best shot.

by jangles 2008-02-05 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

I will not vote for Hillary. I do not what the same faces in the white house year after year. I am a very progressive person but I just can't do it. I have actually been relieved that McCain may get the Republican nomination. Now I won't feel so badly about going Republican for the first time. It doesn't matter who she picks as a VP everyone knows it will really be Bill. (I voted for him twice.) I loved Edwards, and Obama is a good second choice for me. He can beat McCain but Hillary can't. Sorry

by ottokar 2008-02-05 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Hmmm. Todd- So I take it that you are happy and ready to have YOUR WAGES GARNISHED by the federal government to pay for Hillary's "health care" plan. I take it that you like fighting and killing people in Iraq (Hillary voted for that).

This is insanity, really. As a Democrat, I am wanting primarily fiscal and international responsibility from the party, and I see nothing like that coming from Hillary, ever.

Obama is the only other Democratic choice.

On the Republican ticket, the only choice I can see looking for someone who is actually using their brains and upholding their own sworn oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution is Ron Paul. Mr. Paul has been silenced/absent in the media here in New England until perhaps the last week or so, so it's no wonder he's not polling very high- the news congloms have buried him. Want to know why? The congloms are terrified of him.

I happen to think Ron Paul would make a far better president than Hillary. And I'm a Democrat. But I'm the kind of Democrat that won't let her slippery rhetoric roll on by. She's way too conniving and unimaginative for my taste. Sorry!

by techsquirrel 2008-02-05 04:00PM | 0 recs
Vote for Obama, do your research!

"I've been left wondering, OK, sounds great but exactly what will you do as president and how will you do it? "

So the author has not taken the time to read up on Obama. This deeply worries me. To those who think they can vote responsibly by simply watching 10 second main stream media clips, formulated debates, and hearing a 5 minute speach you are mistaken. These issues and solutions require detailed plans that take time to explain. Barack Obama has done an excellent job of providing his exact stance in detailed papers for each issue right on his web site since day one. To Hillary's credit she has done the same. Each of their plans are shockingly similar (that's sarcasm).

The difference between the two candidates is this:

Obama represents a new day for democracy where the people write the laws, not the lobbyists. Meanwhile Clinton doesn't seem to have a problem with how our democracy is functioning.

by rjsteinert 2008-02-05 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Vote for Obama, do your research!

    I notice that you - like Obama - havefailed to answer the second - and equally important - part of the question, "how?"

   It's all well and good to write a few policy papers, but how will he get these policies enacted in the face of Republican filibusters and Blue Dog Democrats?

   Hillary has already shown in her Senate campaign that she can get those to the right of her to come on board with her policies (in fact, she turned a lot of the Hillary-haters in upstate NY into her fervent supporters).

   As far as you other points is concerned, Obama is to the right of Hillary (anbd the people) on both tax and health care policy (he wants to wait 'till the cuts sunset instead of cutting them right away; his health care plan would cost more and cover only half as many people), and he has a history of caving to both lobbyists (e.g. the nuclear issue) and fund-raisers (e.g. Rezko (sp?)), (whereas Hillary does not, e.g. tobacco, and health care industries) so it would be more accurate to say he "represents himself" as the two things you mentioned, as opposed to actually representing them.


by SergeiRostov 2008-02-06 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Beautifully said, Todd. You expressed my journey almost perfectly.

I strongly supported John Edwards. I still think he should have a significant voice in the new administration. When he dropped out, I was heartbroken. All my friends, who all supported Obama, were ready to welcome me into the fold with open arms. And I know there's a lot about Obama that's attractive. But, something made me say to my friends, Wait a minute. Or a day, or two. Let me do some research.

Despite my admiration for Obama, who's a good candidate and for whom I will vote without hesitation if he wins the nomination, I was troubled by the lack of experience which showed in debates and whenever he was speaking off the cuff. He has no peer when delivering a prepared speech, and he's certainly inspiring, but I agree that the ability to inspire, while important, doesn't make up for the fact that he doesn't really articulate his policies (which he does have).

Even Obama's supporters admit that a debate isn't his best venue. Why is that important? Because you don't get to make soaring speeches when tangling with Republicans in Congress. You're there to move policy and legislation, not gain applause.

All that feel good inspiration, the glamor endorsements, the rock-star aura won't get anything done. And we sorely need someone in the White House who not only knows how to get stuff done, but is ready to work her ass off to accomplish her goals.

Do I agree with Hillary on everything? Of course not. It would be unusual if I did, about anyone. But I think she'll fight like a tiger to get a progressive agenda through Congress. God knows, she's weathered a lot of storms...tsunamis, even...and come out stronger than ever.

by AppleCider 2008-02-05 10:51PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

    I have to also say the Rezko(sp?) matter - while not determinative in and of itself - troubles me greatly.

    It's the sad truth that in this country, a black man (or a woman), needs to be twice as good and also squeaky-clean to succeed, and I'm sure Obama knows this. So why didn't he make the small effort required to check out R. (and find out he was a slumlord) before representing him? Either:

       a) He didn't bother, which makes him imcompetent; or
        b) He did, which makes him corrupt.

    Then he used him a fund-raiser, and again, either did not keep an eye on him - and thus discover his coercion and other dirty dealings(incompetent), or did, and didn't care (corrupt).

    Since the mainstream press has given him a virtual pass in these areas, we have no idea what other skeletons an actual close look at Obama night reveal (although we are beginning to see more things come out already, e.g. the nuclear issue cited by other posters above).

    Hillary, on the other hand, has gone through 7 years and $70 million of official investigations by a right-wing-Congress-appointed Special Prosecutor and another 9 years of unofficial investigations by a rabidly-Hillary-hating right-wing machine and they failed to find anything at all.


by SergeiRostov 2008-02-06 07:38AM | 0 recs
On JFK and ObamaRe: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

   On the JFK comparison:

       It's been said we need Obama because, he, like, JFK, inspires us to take big steps instead of Hillary's step-by-step approach. Well, if we look at the big step JFK inspired us to take, it didn't work out so well.

       JFK wanted tus to go to the Moon by the end of the 60s. While space exploration and colonization is a laudable goal, the Big Step/"by the end of this decade" idea didn't work out so well for at least two reasons:

       1) It engendered an "at any cost" mentality which opened the door to the exploitation of government by industry (which is why Apollo had a x2000 (!) cost overrun;

       2) It resulted in the production of a vehicle whose sole function was to go to the Moon and back, instead of what both common sense and universal expert scientific opinion recommended: the step-by-step creation of an infrastructure for space exploration. So what we have now - instead of an orbital shipyard, colonies on the Moon and Mars, and manned exploration of the other planets - is a relatively tiny science station and some rusting Saturn Vs.


by SergeiRostov 2008-02-06 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Hilary Clinton has kept the same clear cmessage and is so open about what she offers and how she hopes to achieve her goals with the help of the citizens in America.

If there is one difference that I would be concerned about, as a resident here but as a citizen of another country, it is the comments that appear from the opponents.

Across the USA web sites are now dominated by a hate and spite campaign of folks who seem to want to proclaim loudly that they are supporters of Senator Obama.

If these same supporters run a hate and spite campaign in November it is unlikely to promote voters to turn out for any Democrat candidate.

Whether or not Hilary Clinton is successful, she will have left a very clear impression here and on millions overseas that there is still a route where candidates can be honest, polite and clean in the way they address people and explain both issues and solutions.

I applaud her for the example she is setting to young people.

by davidceltic 2008-02-11 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

Just discovered this post which showed up on HillaryClinton.com and had to say thank you.

Your reasonings reflect my feelings on why I support Hillary Rodham Clinton and why she will be a terrific President.

I have never understood this hatred people have for her.  Where does it come from?  What has she done to these people who hate her with such a passion it verges on insanity?

Hillary cares about the issues and never falters when discussing them.  She is strong and intelligent and has my vote!

by catchyoulater 2008-03-08 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm Voting For Hillary Clinton

"The second reason is that I actually believe Hillary Clinton is prepared to take full advantage of the progressive moment we find ourselves in to set a challenging domestic agenda that will not only, as she puts it, "clean up after this Bush," but will also set us on a track for a long-term progressive majority."

Well, thanks Todd. Finally, someone else is seeing through BO's speech, which honestly to me never makes any sense. Yes he is a brilliant man, but I have not seen it in what he says. There is a difference between you making a speech to denounce something like the war, and actually voting for it. You had 120 opportunities to vote for other things and 120 times in matters that affect the lives of the people you claim to love and live for in your public life, you voted PRESENT? What the heck is that? Is that the new word for yes or no? that is a language I have never heard before. I can understand you voting PRESENT once or twice or even a dozen times, but 120 times, my God, that is an escapist word and that to me says you are too indecisive to think fast and straight on your feet if you get to the white house.

Then came the debate and you were asked if you would go back into Iraq if after we are out you hear Osama is back in there, and you said yes. Does that mean "Oh, I take my speech back and I am now for the war" Ouch! how pathetic. I want the truth and nothing else BO. Or is it the NAFTA case that is not worth thinking about when I hear one thing from you in a debate and less than a week after, you called one of the countries involved that it was only for politics that you said that to the American fools who stupidly follow you or like you rightly said "the delusional people who vote for you". Oh, I think it's your wife, who supposedly is very educated, but just don't know how to express her self. She is just now proud of America in her adult life. We are the same age and I have been proud of this country since I ever knew what it meant to be an American, though I am African American. I simply refused to live in the past and in a stereotyped world.

I actually just remembered the race card you played and brilliantly shifted the blame on Bill Clinton. You know, just like Hillary, Bill has always all his life been on our side and loved us like we are from the same father and mother. He is color blind for your information and he does not deserve for his words to be twisted by you or anyone around you when you promised to run a Washington free campaign. Even if they did it, you could have told them, please don't do that. But you did not, rather, you developed several other speeches on it and today, even in the votes, you have divided this country more than you have united. If all African Americans are voting for you, what is that called? Whitetism? If there is such a word or speechism.

Now is Rezko or what ever his name is who says he is broke, buys a house for him because that is the way it later comes out to be as I alone can understand that being a mortgage consultant myself, takes millions from a Muslim Lebanese guy and yet refuses to pay to make life better for the same people BO claims to represent. He is in court now and BO's name comes out more than 3 times in the case and you BO want us to brush that aside as you think you have explained to us that it was a dumb, stupid or whatever decision you called it.
You want us to take what you have said to be bad judgment and it will never happen again, yet HRC should be crucified for every mistake she makes or like the media helps you to do, drag her in the mud while they lift you up? No brother, it does not work like that. Perhaps, you are still naive about the AMERICAN POLITICAL WORLD AND MEDIA CAMERA. You need to go back 50years maybe to read, listen and watch as much as you can on the American political Camera and world. Learn how not to claim the SAINT STATUS TOO EARLY IN A RACE as that might come back to hurt later. Yes like some youths say, you inspire them to come out, that is very good. Inspiration without a plan to continue to build with sound solution is just as bad as not having a vision at all.

I am voting for Hillary for the flowing reasons:
1, She is a woman of her words. She says what she means and means what she says.
2, listening to the HILLARY I KNOW videos on her website makes me to see the human side of her which just has a very much larger than life heart to see through with her promise to anyone she dares give it to. Please go there and listen.
3, As a very much loved, respected and admired world leader, who to me is our very own princess Diana, I see her redeeming our image abroad, bringing respect, honor and integrity back to the white house and working together in a diplomatic way to bring world about  peace. I travel all over the world and it is so scary to bring out the blue passport because you don't know who is an American hater around you.
4, Her track record shows she has reached across the isle many times to work together with everyone and that is what she will continue to do as president. You just need to go to New York to know how hard she has worked for them there and they appreciate her for that.

5, She is someone who passionately follows what she believes in and makes sure she leans from her mistake and move on from there. KFC tried several hundred times before he got his taste right and he is succeeding today. He could have given up then, but he did not. She learnt from the first time she wanted UHC for all and she is going for it again. To me that is persistence, perseverance and passion and she is taking another shot at it again now for you and I.

6, I would feel safer and sleep better at night if Hillary becomes president. It's almost as if she will just tell Osama and all the terrorist to come out of hiding and have a meeting with her on why they are so bad, and I can almost see them coming out of their shadows truly. Her foreign policy is very sound. Just listen to this and others by over 30 of Americas finest generals. CNN's fact check attests to the truth about her foreign policy experience.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygV9CtxuC R4

7, I believe her on the new jobs she will create, the college interest rates she will control, immigration reform and oh, I almost forgot the economic blue print. She has said over and over, HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALL I AM SAYING AND TOGETGER WE WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN.

8, Finally, half of all our birth rights have been stolen by the bush presidency and I feel like she will snatch it back and hand it over to us. So please be careful, don't vote with a speech infatuated heart like the networks called it last night, but with a good thinking head that has a good control of the entire body. It's your BIRTHRIGHT, DON'T GIVE IT AWAY AGAIN.
God bless...

by HILLGIRL 2008-03-08 11:36PM | 0 recs
Elequently stated

To me this article discusses salient arguments, which is refreshing in blogland.  I also want to note the sense of apology throughout it.  A slight feeling of fear in saying what is true.

That represents 'what is happening' in this scenario.  The Junior Senator has framed the argument so that anything that is said as a challenge is 'negative'.  Looking at his record, using his middle name, mentioning his smoking, pointing out inconsistencies (and there are many)--raising legitimate questions about who we want answering the phone in the White House.

You are with him or against him...sound familiar?

It is so important to keep talking...whether we are agreed or not...this does not mean the screaming, name calling hysteria so often found here in cyberspace.  Seems in blogland there are two America's...'yours' and 'mine'...when really there is just one...founded on the idea of respecting differences and building consensus.  

This America is the one I think HRC represents.  This America is the one we need to find again.  This is the America founded on hope, built by hard work and expanded through unified purpose.

Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts.  I agree, but in the way they have been presented would respect them even if I did not.

by MeganUK 2008-03-09 01:34AM | 0 recs


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