Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

There is method to the Clinton campaign's mad preemptive sword rattling over the Texas primary/caucus. They want to delay and disrupt the reporting of the delegate count. They hope that if they win the popular vote, they can avoid, at least for one news cycle,  news reports that even if they do so they will very likely lose the delegate fight in Texas and fall further behind Obama in the national delegate contest.

This is not speculation. This has been the subject under discussion. While I have not been part of that discussion,  plenty of sources last night and this morning confirmed this as the core of the dispute.

It is widely assumed that Obama's organizational advantage will achieve in the caucus portion of the Texas election just what it has achieved in earlier caucuses: a significant victory in delegates. There are 67 delegates at stake in those caucuses. The Clinton campaign would like to delay the reporting of the caucus results, and that is why they have continually "reserved the right to challenge" Texas law and Democratic party procedures.

Throw the Texas delegate results in dispute, and win or lose the popular vote, they will have advanced their case that the contest remains close and should go all the way to the convention if necessary.

The campaign in Texas is close. Delegates selected by popular vote out of the 31 Senate districts will probably be split more or less evenly. This is due in large part to the fact that 15 of those districts have 4 delegates to award. A candidate would have to get more than 62.5 percent of the vote in those districts to win a 3-to-1 split. The most likely outcome is a 2-2 split. In addition, Obama may have a slight advantage in that the districts with the largest number of delegates, Austin and inner city Houston and Dallas, are viewed as Obama strongholds. Still, just about every model shows an even split of primary vote delegates, no matter who wins or loses the popular vote. This is just because the vote will be close.

The Clinton campaign strategy is to justify taking the fight beyond Texas even if they fall further behind Obama in the national delegate count. To do that, they must cast doubt over the fate of the 67 delegates that will be chosen at the caucus level. Hence, their tough positioning in phone calls with Texas Democratic Party officials and others involved in the primary here.

The Texas rules have been in effect for decades. Bill Clinton ran twice under these rules. They are no surprise to anyone, and both campaigns know they have to play by the same rules. There is little point to raising concerns before the election -- except one campaign finds itself running a very unique kind of effort. To remain viable, the results of the caucus in Texas must be thrown into doubt. Almost any legal challenge will do. The Clinton narrative can be maintained-- but only if their falling further behind in delegates is not reported or is at the least cast into doubt for a news cycle, or two or three news cycles.

Texas' hybrid primary/caucus would not be questioned were it not that one candidate appears to have an advantage in caucus settings. Or that in a close race, the popular vote in senate districts will probably translate into an even split of delegates. Consequently, the Clinton campaign finds Texas to be a poor place to build a firewall or mount a comeback. That's an historical accident. Attacking the state party here would be irresponsible and damaging to Democratic prospects here in both the near and long term.

The overwhelming numbers of Texas who have voted early in the Texas primary is symptomatic of the changing political tide here. Much work has been done rebuilding the progressive movement in the Lone Star State. Attempts to taint the primary, and consequently the primary and caucus decisions of Texas voters, will set this effort back.

Cross-posted at BurntOrangeReport.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Texas Democratic Party, Texas primary (all tags)

Comments

105 Comments

Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Has it been confirmed 100% that Clinton is the one threatening the process, or is this just speculation at this point?

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I have talked to participants in the discussions. They have hopes that the matter won't go far, that the law and rules will be respected.

While I think this will be damaging, I think any political campaign that found itself in Clinton's unique position would probably consider such a strategy before rejecting it. And the campaign may well, everyone hopes, reject it.

by Glenn Smith 2008-02-29 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Can you be more specific?  What exactly are they objecting to in the process?

Is it about trying to keep the caucus results out of the popular vote count so people aren't double counted?  Is it about making sure caucus results aren't published before primary polls close?

Or is it just trying to keep people from finding out the caucus results that night for basically no reason?

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Can you be more specific?  What exactly are they objecting to in the process?

Is it about trying to keep the caucus results out of the popular vote count so people aren't double counted?  Is it about making sure caucus results aren't published before primary polls close?

Or is it just trying to keep people from finding out the caucus results that night for basically no reason?

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

HRC campaign is not threatening to sue over the Texas caucus rules - that is the last thing they want to do.  Any law suit would take weeks or longer to resolve; they don't have the luxury of that much time.  Instead, they are trying to preempt voter disenfranchisement by addressing potential problems in advance and reaching agreement with the Obama camp as to how those potential problems will be handled.  The allegation, that HRC is threatening a legal challenge is just another example of the deceptive practices of the Obama campaign - of inventing positions of the Hillary campaign in order to discredit and attack those invented positions. And the Media plays along.  

Both sides are asking for clarification of the rules, for good reason. As in previous primaries this year, there is concern that the state democratic party has not adequately planned for the expected turn out and the "rules" do not adequately address the problems that could ensue.  For example, overcrowding, long lines, not enough precinct chairs, all could lead to voter disenfranchisement.  Clarification of rules with respect to these potential problems is necessary to protect voter rights and achieve a smooth caucus.

by suskin 2008-02-29 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

So this would be issues like what time the doors can be closed etc? If it's nuts and bolts stuff like this then I don't see anyone really complaining - but if they are attacking the system itself, that's a different story.

by highgrade 2008-02-29 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Pure speculation. By the usual suspects.

"Texas Democratic Party lawyer Chad Dunn warned a lawsuit could ruin the Democrats' effort to re-energize voters just as they are turning out in record numbers.

Spokesmen for both campaigns said there were no plans to sue ahead of the March 4 election.

"It has been brought to my attention that one or both of your campaigns may already be planning or intending to pursue litigation against the Texas Democratic Party,'' Dunn wrote in the letter, obtained by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. "Such action could prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated Democratic process.''

Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses...

http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/5108 02.html

by KnowVox 2008-02-29 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Even if there's a "method to her madness," this would make Hillary look terrible.  

It'll look like she's using tricks to try and win the nomination.  I'm not sure how it will attract new voters to her side... I'm inclined to think it will just turn people off and push them towards obama.  

It strikes me as another pretty dumb campaign blunder

by AbeFroman 2008-02-29 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I have a feeling the only person in a position to tell her how bad she's making herself look is the same person encouraging her to grasp at every straw.

by BlueinColorado 2008-02-29 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/02/29/715709.aspx

From NBC's Chuck Todd and Mark Murray

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee emails First Read, "The Clinton campaign has not made any threat 'direct or veiled' to engage in litigation and no legal action is being taken. The campaigns have been discussing primary night procedures and we asked for those procedures to be put in writing before we agree to them. It is standard operating procedure for our campaign -- and we presume any campaign -- to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it."

by Tennessean 2008-02-29 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

KansasCity.com -

Another Democratic official who was privvy to the discussions confirmed that Clinton representatives made veiled threats in a telephone call this week.

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

by JoeCoaster 2008-02-29 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

I can only assume you thought the NAFTA/Canada/Obama stuff was crap too, I mean it was far less ourced than this.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-29 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

it is NOT their call either way; they can object all they like; it will do them no good; the texas party has the right to run THEIR primary/caucus the way they want

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

Yes, the US Supreme Court has been very clear that political parties have the right to set their own rules.

by mainelib 2008-02-29 06:58AM | 0 recs
But... but... but...

That denial came from the Clinton campaign.

Denials are only valid when they are from the Obama side.

(snark)

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:17AM | 0 recs
Hillary's Rationale

Michigan and Florida SHOULD count, because they voted for her even though they broke rules.

Texas SHOULDN'T, because they are now just realizing 5 days away that they don't like the rules that have been in place for YEARS.

P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

by NJPolitico84 2008-02-29 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Rationale

Michigan and Florida broke rules that were made exceedingly clear by the DNC.  If the DNC wants any credibility, they will refuse to seat the delegates from said states.

And early on, the Clinton campaign went on record that they agreed with the DNC rulings on MI and FL.  Of course, this was before the Clinton "wins" in said states.

The Clinton campaign is in a desperate flail, in a tailspin toward being inconsequential: the infighting, the wild swings in on-stage personality, the ad campaign that has no focus, etc., it all adds up to desperate acts to right the ship.  And while this kind of "against the ropes" situation has happened to Clinton campaigns (both Hillary and Bill) in the past, this is the first time where there isn't any real traction in the periphery.

This move in Texas just adds insult in injury.  It's pathetic, it's pedantic, and it shows how completely out-of-it the Clinton campaign is at this juncture.

by DCFD Rudi 2008-02-29 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Why in the world would the Clinton campaign want to give Obama's supporters any more ammunition? I'd be incredibly surprised if anyone else would give Mark Penn a job after this.

by ScottEmerson 2008-02-29 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

They wouldn't.

Logically, it's clear that anonymous sources who support Obama are the ones who fed this story to the press, not Hillary.  

So take it with a grain of salt.

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:19AM | 0 recs
Texas was her latest "firewall" ...

... until it wasn't.

Seriously, look how her campaign has insulted Texans and revealed the depth of her hypocrisy:

1. Saying Texas will turn her campaign around, then challenging the rules at the last minute (these have been on the books throughout the campaign) only once she betgan slipping in the polls;

2. Saying Texas doesn't matter, because it is a "red state," but again only saying it once she began slipping in the polls.

by Hudson 2008-02-29 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

The caucus part of the Texas election is going to be an absolute train wreck. Count on it. The only thing that will be clear is who wins the popular vote in the primary.

by Scan 2008-02-29 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Sadly, when one campaign stands to gain by causing such a train wreck, it increases the chances that a wreck will be caused.

by Glenn Smith 2008-02-29 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

This is your take on the situation. I know that BOR has officially endorsed Obama. I wonder how many other people know that?

by Scan 2008-02-29 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Glenn, you very well know that the TDP isn't close to being ready to carry out its own caucus procedures given the level of turnout expected. The Clinton campaign is dumb for being so brash about it but don't think that the Obama campaign doesn't have the same concerns and doesn't have its own legal nuclear option prepared.

by blueflorida 2008-02-29 07:23AM | 0 recs
This is voter surpression

pure and simple.

by fladem 2008-02-29 06:52AM | 0 recs
They might as well try this.

Desperate times call for desperate actions?

by LonghornSam 2008-02-29 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: They might as well try this.

Hillary says that our children will die if Obama wins.

"It's 3 a.m., and your children are safe and asleep," the announcer says. "But there's a phone in the White House, and it's ringing -- something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call."

by JoeCoaster 2008-02-29 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: They might as well try this.

I never been more embarrassed to say that Clinton used to be my preferred candidate.

by mainelib 2008-02-29 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: They might as well try this.

Yeah, its nice of her (read Penn) to make TX voters a massive focus group for Mccain's ads in the fall, you think she'll let John have the ad for free or is he going to have to pay "fair use" fees?

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-29 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: They might as well try this.

Wow... it might as well the Daisy Ad.

Really sad that they would go this far against a fellow Democrat.

by JDF 2008-02-29 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I think the NV ruling about the caucus sites had it right. This isn't a national democratic process, it is an internal party discussion, not the court's domain. That may not be the way things should be, but it is the way they are.

We'll definently see, however, another DNC-created reform commission come from the Convention the way we did every year from '68 to '84, and it will create more substantial changes than any since the first one led by McGovern.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-02-29 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Given the organizational advantages, Obama could conceivably come out somewhere between 20 to 40 delegates added to his current lead. That would be devestating to the Clinton chances of continuing as it would be ten election days in a row where Obama maintained or incresed his pledged delegate lead.

by Walt Starr 2008-02-29 06:57AM | 0 recs
HE HAS YET TO LOSE ANY ELECTION DAY

so far; as delegate counts are concerned

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: HE HAS YET TO LOSE ANY ELECTION DAY

as long as Independent and GOP voters are counted as well.

God knows, THOSE are whom we want selecting our candidate.

by Rooktoven 2008-02-29 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: HE HAS YET TO LOSE ANY ELECTION DAY

"God knows, THOSE are whom we want selecting our candidate."

"THOSE" are the people who make the difference, both in the primaries and in the general election.

There are still a large number of people in this country - people who vote in every election cycle - who do not pin themselves to a particular party.  And this a a growing bloc of people, due in no small part to the decreasing amount of separation between the parties created by the "Reagan Reovlution" and the DLC's triangulation strategy.

Do I mind that "THOSE" are helping select the candidate?  Not that much, because many of "THOSE" are people who would vote for Obama over McCain in the general.

Just my $0.02 - YMMV.

by DCFD Rudi 2008-02-29 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: HE HAS YET TO LOSE ANY ELECTION DAY

Yes! Yes! We must have purity! We don't want the votes of anyone other than the forty per cent of registered voters who self-identify as Democrats! That is a sure recipe for winning an election!

by BlueinColorado 2008-02-29 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

this is so desperate. if they actually acted on this, it would seriously hurt any chance she'd have in PA if she were to stick around that long. mark penn is just such a dipshit.....strategery at its finest.

by james c 2008-02-29 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

It's all over the new now. . .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080229/ap_o n_el_pr/texas_caucus_challenge

Sounds like Clinton "made vieled threats" and is not trying to back peddle after realizing that it was not such a great move.

by poserM 2008-02-29 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

It has to be on the TV to be news to the vast majority of the electorate.

We'll see how biased the media are if CNN, MSNBC, and the rest don't carry the story.

by Walt Starr 2008-02-29 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

MSNBC is carrying the story, and placing the blame directly on the Clinton Camp

by Wiz in Wis 2008-02-29 07:29AM | 0 recs
OT: Hussein

Is the proliferation of middle name Hussein a pro-Obama thing, a pro-Clinton thing, or something else?

IMHO this sort of thing is not wise. its a little jarring in fact. I admit to bias in ths regard.

by azizhp 2008-02-29 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: OT: Hussein

It's a sign of solidarity with Barack Obama and a demonstration on the idiocy of any opponents attempting to make an issue out of his middle name.

by Walt Starr 2008-02-29 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: OT: Hussein

Obama is at present trying to play down his "link" because otherwise it fuels the muslim smear against him. I think it hurts more than it helps.

I was one of the first muslim bloggers to talk about Obama's distancing himself from Islam - bottom line is he cant afford right now to even say "theres nothing wrong with being muslim".

I am not telling you what to do but please consider the timing. Thats all.

by azizhp 2008-02-29 10:05AM | 0 recs
we are all hussein

by omar little 2008-02-29 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

We need to relax & not make mountains out of molehills. This is just standard practice in a very tough primary fight & such tactics have been common the past 40 years. Meanwhile, receiving minimum coverage by the progressive blogs & the MCM are the Repub tactics that make it harder & harder for Democrats to win. Long after Hillary & Obama are gone, making sure that black areas do not have enough voting machines, making voters  required to have voter IDs - which disenfranchises large numbers of the poor & minorities, ridding people off the ballots - primarily because they're minorities - under the guise of cleaning up voter rolls, will ensure that Republicans win the close races.

The Texas primary tussle is trivia compared to this overall strategy of fixing elections.

by carter1 2008-02-29 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Which other Democratic candidates did this sort of thing in the last, say 20 years?

by mainelib 2008-02-29 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Do y'all even know if this is really happening? I get the idea that this is another inflated non-issue to distract from the fact that Obama's campaign platform is a bunch of non-issues.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-29 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Every news service says it's happening.

by mainelib 2008-02-29 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Do you think Obama has the Texas Democratic party in his pocket or something?  They released the info originally.  

by telephasic 2008-02-29 07:11AM | 0 recs
That's not quite accurate

They released a letter that accuses Hillary of no such thing.  Their letter said that one or both campaigns may be planning a lawsuit.

It was anonymous sources with no attribution whatsoever that talked to the press.  We have no idea who those sources are for or what their agenda is.  And the Clinton campaign has issued a clear denial.

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

no they haven't; not DURING the process; the fights are between election cycles

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:03AM | 0 recs
What is the goal here?

If she ties or loses in TX then she knows she can't win the nomination.  She'd have to be delusional to think otherwise and I don't believe she is.

So what is there to gain by going on?

For Mark Penn and other paid staff it's a paycheck I guess.

For her supporters who refuse to accept the math it's extending the dream of Clinton winning.

For Hillary herself, it's hard to come up with a reason.  Unless she wants to get enough donations over and above what she spends going forward to pay off existing debt.  

The idea that she wants Obama to lose to McCain in November so she can run again in '12 is tinfoil hat stuff as far as I'm concerned.

If I wanted to be really generous to Clinton, I would say she is using the rightwing talking points to attack Obama so he can rebut(debunk) them early on to take the wind out of the smear machine's sails in the runup to the GE.

by GFORD 2008-02-29 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: What is the goal here?

My last point is kinda tin foil hat stuff too but the friendly kind...more of a tinfoil beanie.

by GFORD 2008-02-29 07:03AM | 0 recs
if she loses the TX popular vote

i think she will withdraw

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:04AM | 0 recs
My Respect is Ebbing

I have always respected HRC, and I appreciate her desire to "fight"...but at some point demostrations of power become demonstrations of pettiness.

This sort of thing only reinforces the most negative aspects of the electorate's knowledge of who Hillary is.

That is, whereas Barack is seen as a uniting force for the country...he can disagree and lead without having to WIN at his opposition's expense; Hillary seems content to be labeled a petty partisan, and one hell-bent on WINNING by any means.  

I am profoundly saddened by her campaign's behavior.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-29 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: My Respect is Ebbing

It's all politics. It's not a movement. It's politics.

I'm sorry you're so sad. I quite don't know what to say but that I hope you will vote for Hillary in November anyway.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-29 07:15AM | 0 recs
since she WON'T be on the ballot

why would this person vote for her?

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:21AM | 0 recs
No

My state's write-in process is a real pain-in-the-ass.

Besides, I always vote for the Democratic ticket on Presidential ballots.

by zonk 2008-02-29 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: My Respect is Ebbing

When does negative campaigning work?  When you can create a narrative around someone.   The negative around Clinton has been that she will do anything to win.  When that's the story around you, and you act in ways that seem consistent with it, that's when the collapse can happen.

by thezzyzx 2008-02-29 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: My Respect is Ebbing

If only she had put this kind of fierce tenacity into fighting Bush over the last seven years, or even now (FISA).

by BlueinColorado 2008-02-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: This Diary Is So Full Of Distortion

Here is what happened:

The Texas Democratic Party is warning Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama not to file lawsuits over the complicated delegate-selection process inTexas, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports today. The Tuesday contest involves both a primary with 126 delegates at stake, and evening caucuses that will determine the allocation of another 67 delegates.

The newspaper quotes unnamed Democratic officials as saying both campaigns indicated they were keeping all options open, with the more "imminent threat" of a lawsuit coming from the Clinton camp. Spokesmen for both campaigns told the paper they have no plans to sue.

The party sent a letter late yesterday to Guy Cecil, political director for the Clinton campaign, and Steve Hildebrand, Obama's deputy campaign manager. Party attorney Chad Dunn said the rules have been available since before the pair even started to campaign.

"If it is true that litigation is imminent between one or both of your campaigns and the TDP, such action could prove to be a tragedy for a reinvigorated democratic process that is involving a record number of participants here in Texas and across the nation," Dunn wrote. He said litigation "could cripple the momentum of a resurging Texas Democratic Party."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/200 8/02/texas-dems-to-c.html

The Clinton Campaign has responded. The Obama camp has not responded.
Perhaps it is the Obama camp threatening a TX Lawsuit.

Posted: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:08 AM by Mark Murray

Clinton Camp Denies TX Lawsuit Threat

From NBC's Chuck Todd and Mark Murray

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee emails First Read, "The Clinton campaign has not made any threat 'direct or veiled' to engage in litigation and no legal action is being taken. The campaigns have been discussing primary night procedures and we asked for those procedures to be put in writing before we agree to them. It is standard operating procedure for our campaign -- and we presume any campaign -- to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/02/29/715709.aspx

by Tennessean 2008-02-29 07:08AM | 0 recs
NONSENSE

why would obama challenge a process in which he excels????????NONSENSE

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: NONSENSE

Standard Clinton Faire...

Attack the system, deny the attack, say Obama did it, Whine!!!

Lather, Rinse, Repeat

by Wiz in Wis 2008-02-29 07:18AM | 0 recs
EXACTLY

this is just too stupid; even in this current campaign cycle; the TX PARTY can run this election any way it sees fit; AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: NONSENSE

"Attack the system, deny the attack, say Obama did it, Whine!!!"

You forgot step #4:

"When called out on your reprehensible behavior, say something to the effect of "Well, that's no way to win over a Clinton supporter!!" -- THEN whine...

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 07:58AM | 0 recs
Did you miss this

in the original story?

Another Democratic official who was privvy to the discussions confirmed that Clinton representatives made veiled threats in a telephone call this week.

"Officials from Sen. Clinton's campaign at several times throughout the call raised the specter of 'challenging the process,' the official said. "The call consisted of representatives from both campaigns and the Democratic Party.''

The source, who asked not to identified by name because he did not have authorization to speak about the matter, said Clinton 's political director, Guy Cecil, had forcefully raised the possibility of a courtroom battle.

by JoeCoaster 2008-02-29 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

The Clinton campaign is moving the goal posts and saying that Obama has to win all four contests this Tuesday or it's a sign that Dems are questioning his candidacy.

http://thepage.time.com/clinton-camp-mem o-on-obama-expectations/

by mainelib 2008-02-29 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

RHODE ISLAND COUNTS!!! W00T!

by thezzyzx 2008-02-29 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Facts:

1. Obama has a massive campaign funding advantage over Clinton.

2. Obama has a growing national polling lead over Clinton.

3. Obama has won the last 11 contests and rightfully has received several cycles of positive news coverage highlighting this fact whereas Clinton has probably had the single worst two weeks of press coverage of the entire primary campaign in the time since the Wisconsin primary.

4. Obama has received many more major high-profile endorsements in the last few weeks than has Clinton.

All of the above are true. Why are you pretending as if Obama's still the underdog?

by blueflorida 2008-02-29 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Facts:

1. Barack Obama .vs. HILLARY CLINTON

  1. Barack Obama .vs. HILLARY CLINTON
  2. Barack Obama .vs. HILLARY CLINTON

and finally...

4. Barack Obama .vs. HILLARY CLINTON

by JoeCoaster 2008-02-29 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

You must not have read the story...

After spending all February calling OH-TX-PA her "firewalls"... After her own husband saying she MUST win TX + OH -- the Clinton campaign is now trying to spin that Obama must win all four states, and catch this -- "by substantial margins".

It's ludicrous.  

The only people that would buy this are those that spent all of 2008 in a coma or in a cave.

by zonk 2008-02-29 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I wouldn't go so far as to say Obama 'must win' all four states, but if you're looking at the contours of the contest honestly, Obama "should win" all of them.

by blueflorida 2008-02-29 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I'm talking more about Hillary NEEDING to win 3 of 4.

by zonk 2008-02-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
This got diaried here

By a Clinton support then quickly pulled.... I think  it was causing too much laughter.

by zonk 2008-02-29 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

AGAIN people there is no proof that the Clinton camp is threatening Texas democrats.  Stop drinking the koolaid!

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:11AM | 0 recs
yes there IS

stop SPINNING

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: yes there IS

What proof?  The Clinton campaign says they are not threatening to sue.  

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: yes there IS

So there is this statement:

"Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee emails First Read, "The Clinton campaign has not made any threat 'direct or veiled' to engage in litigation and no legal action is being taken. The campaigns have been discussing primary night procedures and we asked for those procedures to be put in writing before we agree to them. It is standard operating procedure for our campaign -- and we presume any campaign -- to see what we are agreeing to in writing before we agree to it."

And then an "unnamed source who won't give name because they have no authority to speak on this matter"

Yeah, ok, that is definitely proof.  Give me a break.

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:20AM | 0 recs
it HAS been posted above

by MULTIPLE posters; can you read? or is your head too far in the sand?

by jjgtrs 2008-02-29 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: it HAS been posted above

I just did read it.  You have an official statement from the Clinton campaign and an unnamed source who isn't even authorized to speak.  Now give me an official statement from the Clinton campaign saying this is true and then maybe you have something.  Otherwise it's just a bunch of donkey crap.

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: it HAS been posted above

Why would they make an official statement about it?  They might be stupid, but they're not suicidal.  Didn't Nixon have an 'official' response to Watergate?

by rfahey22 2008-02-29 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: it HAS been posted above

Comparing this to Watergate?  Good grief.  Well whatever it is clear that the Obama crowd's sense of reason has left the building.

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:54AM | 0 recs
God forbiid the popular vote winner gets a benefit

Hey, who's winning among REGISTERED democrats, anyway?

by Rooktoven 2008-02-29 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Even Mydd authors are falling for anti-clinto

Even Mydd guys are falling for the SPIN smear Clintons with anything remotely negative. But when its NAFTA do not post anything on that because that may make Obama look bad.

by bayareasg 2008-02-29 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Even Mydd authors are falling for anti-clinto

lol...

Yeah MyDD is soooo in the tank for Obama.

by JoeCoaster 2008-02-29 07:46AM | 0 recs
Well

To be honest, I think the Canadian TV story would be a bigger deal if the DNC hadn't stripped Manitoba, Quebec, Alberta, and the rest of the Canadian provinces of their delegates.

We were never really banking on polling very well in Canada anyway... not enough blacks and latte-sipping liberals there.

by zonk 2008-02-29 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Even Mydd authors are falling for anti-clinto

Um, look as an Obama supporter the Canada thing bothers me, I'll admit, it takes some shine off of how I look at the guy in terms of transcendence, at the same time shouldn't this stuff make him look better to the HRC supporters who say he wont fight to win?

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-29 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

"Specifically, Clinton aides questioned a provision allowing caucus attendees to vote to move the location if they choose to do so, and whether people who had cast so-called "provisional ballots" in the primary would have their votes counted in the caucus.

They also expressed concern about the automated phone system precinct chairs would use to call in the results of each caucus, saying the party hadn't yet trained anyone to use the system properly."

Expressing concern - and frankly they are valid concerns - is not the same as threatening to sue.  

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Yeah, yeah yeah. But when Obama strongly states that he means what he says regarding renegotiating NAFTA, Hillary supporters still choose to believe the original story.

I'll accept Hillary's denial as soon as some of the reality-challenged Clinton supporters here accept Obama's denial.

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

What?  I accept his denial about the NAFTA story.  Frankly I could care less.

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus
Fair enough. However, it seems like many other Clinton backers aren't nearly as willing to accept Senator Obama at his word.

Like I said, I'm willing to accept Sen Clinton at her word. Too bad that isn't a two way street for many of Hillary's supporters.

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I am a supporter of Hillary Clinton.  I have serious concerns about Obama that aren't related to the NAFTA crap.  I will vote for the Democrat in the fall.  I am not looking to tear down my own party - I have had since 2000 to get over that feeling.  But my concerns and questions about Obama are valid (in my opinion) and I don't like being portrayed as a sore loser or a dim wit because I have them.

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

It's refreshing to hear that you will support the Dem in November.

I never called you a sore loser or dimwit, and I apologize if my comments made it seem that way. It surely wasn't my intent.

But I have to say - and I am straining to say this as diplomatically as I can - but any perception that the Hillary Clinton campaign (and by extension, her supporters) are "sore losers" is the direct result of that campaign's continual dismissal of every Obama win as "insignificant" as well as their newfound belief that MI and FL voting results should stand as is.

But I do not extend the ill feelings I have for Senator Clinton's campaign to all of her supporters. I save that for the Clinton supporters who promote those shady and disingenuous tactics.

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

No I didn't get the sore loser and dim wit impression from you, but I certainly get it from some posts here and I have visited another site (mentioned here many times) and that is definitely the feeling I get there.  

Oh, and about FL - I do think it was terribly shady of the Republicans there to screw the Democrats out of their delegates and there should be a revote.  

by JustJennifer 2008-02-29 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I am all for a revote as well, in FL and MI. Either that, or seat the delegates proportional to whatever the final nationwide vote percentages end up being.

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

They repeatedly and stridently said they reserved the right to challenge the reporting of the caucus results. Period. That is a fact.

They don't have to sue. They just want it reported that the caucus results are incomplete, in doubt, not dependable, or somehow unfair. That way they will get the press to focus on a popular vote victory, should they get one.

Every model run so far, ever possible scenario, knows Clinton will be further behind in delegates than before the campaigns came to Texas. This is the Clinton strategy for overcoming that brute fact.

by Glenn Smith 2008-02-29 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Where did you get that from?

That's a hugely important missing piece of the puzzle that the Obama supporters have left out so I'd love to see a link for that info.

by dcg2 2008-02-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

I have seen the hrc children sleeping ad and I don't like it one bit.

It is an affront the Party, to democrats, to Americans and to decency. I reject it. I denounce it.

It doesn't hurt Obama, it does hurt the Party, and it ends any sympathy I had for her and her  campaign.

Hillary Clinton wants to know; can we sink lower?

Apparently.

Thats enough.

by inexile 2008-02-29 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer

Aides to Clinton said earlier this week they were alarmed at the lack of clarity about many of the caucus rules and expressed their concerns on a conference call with Obama's staff and state party officials. Texas has a two-step voting process, with a primary and then caucuses shortly after the polls close.

Specifically, Clinton aides questioned a provision allowing caucus attendees to vote to move the location if they choose to do so, and whether people who had cast so-called "provisional ballots" in the primary would have their votes counted in the caucus.

They also expressed concern about the automated phone system precinct chairs would use to call in the results of each caucus, saying the party hadn't yet trained anyone to use the system properly.

Clinton political director Guy Cecil said he asked party officials to spell out the rules in memo form and to send them to both campaigns.

"We want to see the results in writing, and we reserve the right to challenge something if we don't believe it reflects something that was discussed on the call," he said, insisting that if there were clear problems with how the caucuses were being run, "you are allowed to say something about it."

Cecil on Friday denied that the campaign planned to sue the party, which will manage roughly 8,700 caucuses Tuesday evening.

"There were no veiled threats of lawsuits of any kind," Cecil said of the conference call.

A shame you don't bother to report FACTS. On the front page no less.

by Fleaflicker 2008-02-29 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Yep, now the MyDD front-pagers are in the tank for Obama! Maybe they should ask him if he'd like another pillow.... </snark>

by John in Chicago 2008-02-29 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

Remember the Clinton Razor (TM)

Any explanation or an event or occurance should make as many conspiracy theories, logical leaps and self-servicing spin as possible. Ideally in the form of telephone conference call.

Not to be confused with Occam's Razor. Occam states that any explanation of an event or occurance should make as few assumptions as possible. Occam had a clear Obama bias.

by Lettuce 2008-02-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

So, if either candidate is supposedly gearing up to make the argument at the convention, how would anyone determine what the "will of the people" is?  Is it those who actually go to the polls (like in the GE) or some random number made up from those who attend the caucuses or a combination of both?  Any ideas?

by cmugirl90 2008-02-29 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

This is standard fair for the Clintons...they wil attempt to use whatever means at their disposal to defeat their political opponents. Folks...this is the story of their lives together.....they seek to destroy anyoen and anything in their way. Hillary is as big a phony as Bill. After John Edwards dropped otu she started channel his spirit in this campaign like it was her own, She is a cold, petty, calculating politician. Nothing more.......seeing the pair go down in flames is an absolute pleasure. Her behaviro during this campaign has served to diminish whatever standing and stature she had in the Senate...and its seems many of our fellow democrats are none to disappointed.

by adbct 2008-02-29 11:22AM | 0 recs
I CANNOT WAIT

For the stench of Clintonian politics to finally be wiped away.

They are truly ready, on DAY ONE, to destroy the Democratic Party, if it gives them one extra percentage of a chance to win power.

by highgrade 2008-02-29 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Threatening the Texas Primary/Caucus

All I can say about the caucus voting in Texas (specifically in Harris County) -- disorganized and hardly a true reflection of the popular vote! It's not a fair process, and I'll tell you why.

I was there, at my precinct, at 6:30pm to caucus. By 7pm, there were at least 250 or so other people waiting to participate in the caucus. After waiting out in the cold for 2 hours for the precinct volunteers to figure out where we would caucus (the designated area was way too small to hold 25 people, let alone more than 200), many of the 250 people left, perhaps deciding it wasn't worth the hassle. Those remaining were mostly the younger voters (18 - 30, maybe 40 somethings) and those who left were mostly women (citing a need to get home to put their kids to bed) and older folks who were too tired and have a problem driving at night and standing for so many hours.

From what I've heard on the news, mine was not the only precinct location in Harris County with such a problem -- some precincts waited until midnight or 1am to caucus.

So, did I find this strange two-step to be a fair assessment of the popular vote? Hardly, when you realize most of the caucus goers who could withstand the cold and the hours standing and waiting were younger and we have all heard that Obama has a majority of the votes from this demographic. Most of those who left before the caucus finally began were older folks. So, does that sound fair to them? C'mon, it's obviuosly not a fair process in Texas.

Texas needs to make a decision going into the future: hold Democratic primary voting OR Democratic caucus voting, but not both with 1/3 of the delegate allocation coming from the disorganized, very slanted (perhaps not purposely) caucus process.

Only in the "United State of Texas" could we have such a crazy voting process. And, yes, I am a native Texan (my maternal grandmother was born in Texas in 1899 and my paternal grandparents were born in Texas about 10 - 12 years earlier!)

by ceejchris82 2008-03-05 07:00AM | 0 recs

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