NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment Builds

On my way from JFK to my parents' house today, one morning radio talk show was discussing the prospect of the appointment of Caroline Kennedy to Hillary Clinton's Senate seat. Specifically they were wondering what she's done to deserve such an appointment and what sort of Senator she would be. Skepticism -- to put it mildly -- was oozing out of the radio.

From what I'm hearing on the ground in New York, this radio talk show host is not isolated in his criticism. In fact, there's the distinct sense among the political establishment in NY that a Kennedy appointment would be seen as an insult, and Ben Smith reported this weekend that some NY Democrats are making their displeasure known.

Rivals -- including at least three members of the New York congressional delegation -- are starting to doubt Kennedy's viability and experience, and Paterson is said to be less than enthusiastic about picking her, people close to him say. Critics are even questioning the substance of her accomplishments in education, her most high profile issue.

"There is no frontrunner - period," snapped a person close to Paterson, when asked about Kennedy's prospects.

As Ben Smith notes, Kennedy's support for Barack Obama in the primary has even become an issue among some local Clinton supporters.

Prominent Clinton supporters, including Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), union leader Stuart Applebaum and fundraiser Robert Zimmerman, recently expressed skepticism about the choice, suggesting that Clinton's supporters would see naming Kennedy -- a crucial Obama backer -- as a slight.

As a result, Hillary Clinton, after being clear that she would stay out of the appointment sweepstakes, felt the need to "chide" her supporters and asked them not to stand in the way of a Kennedy appointment.  

The resistance is clearly not lost on Kennedy who is taking steps to shore up some statewide support. She reportedly intends to "demonstrate that she has both the ability and the stomach to perform the job, with plans to visit parts of the upstate region," has called Hillary Clinton directly about the seat and has now hired Josh Isay, a top New York political consultant, to shepherd her appointment through. This latter pick is not without its own controversy, especially among the left, as Isay has counted among his clients both Joe Lieberman and Benjamin Netenyahu.

Jane minces no words and echoes what appears to be an increasingly widespread skepticism about Kennedy's appointment.

Isay's ads were critical in deceiving voters and paving the way for Lieberman's reelection.  Now that it's clear where Lieberman really stands, Daily Kos polling indicates Lamont would overwhelmingly defeat Lieberman.

It's telling that Caroline Kennedy has never wanted to run for office, and never thought to put her case before the public when she decided she wanted this job.  Her first move was to pick up the phone and start working the elites, then hire a political fixer whose specialty is deceiving voters.

"She told me she was interested in the position," Mr. Paterson said at a news conference outside Albany on Monday. He added, "She'd like at some point to sit down and tell me what she thinks her qualifications are."

I think many people who aren't emotionally leaping into the cult of personality would like to know that too, because at this point in time, nobody knows what she stands for.

Update [2008-12-16 16:48:51 by Todd Beeton]:TPM reports that Kennedy has Sen. Harry Reid in her corner. Maybe she's better at this politics thing than we gave her credit for.

Reid on Kennedy in what I don't think qualifies as a ringing endorsement:

"She's 52 years old. I've spoken to her. She was part of a vetting process for vice presidential choices for Obama. She's lived in government and politics her whole life. I think it would be a tremendous thing...We have a lot of stars from New York. Bobby Kennedy. Hillary Clinton. I think Caroline Kennedy would be perfect."

Tags: Caroline Kennedy, hihllary clinton, NY-SEN (all tags)

Comments

110 Comments

Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment Buil

What exactly is the experience needed to be a senator by the way ??

She is not running in an election , its going to be an appointed position , calling the elites is probably a wise course  of action.

Those questioning her capabilities , achievement in education and experience like those unnamed rep members in the NY delegation should spell out what qualifications is needed...

by lori 2008-12-16 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment Buil

What has she done to make herself Elite except being a Kennedy?  If they aren't appointing a caretaker then we need someone with a great chance of winning re-election.  She is not that person.

by yitbos96bb 2008-12-16 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: She has a better chance

Really?  I mostly associate him as "mister impeachment", which presumably wouldn't be terribly popular.

I don't know... that whole Suffolk/Staten Island voting block is a strange bird.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:06PM | 0 recs
I'm not a NYer

But it seems to be a lot of people are underestimating the GOP's potential in 2010, with the three top state seats up for grabs. I'm having a brain blank at the moment and can't think of the two pre-Spitzer govs, but they were both Republicans. Giuliani, Bloomberg, now I see a lot of Nyers say King is a serious candidate, which astounds me cause I think of him as a nutter.

That said, if CK wants more public support, she oughta get out in public and make her case as a qualified nominee.

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm not a NYer

The political climate has changed a great deal in New York.  The Republican Party is incredibly toxic.

Peter "Karl Rove should get a medal" King, for all his faults, is universally recognized as a strong advocate for New York, and he is moderate on a number of issues, so he's definitely a credible candidate.  That said, he's going to have a hard time arguing he could bring home the bacon more effectively than Democrat X, given that DC will still be a one-party town in 2010.

by Steve M 2008-12-16 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm not a NYer

You need a Republican with a liberal reputation and statewide dissatisfaction with the Democratic party to produce a Governor Pataki.

As far as Republicans winning the mayoralty, in Giuliani's case it was a quirk (an extremely unpopular incumbant, plus a conservative running to Giuliani's right with a ton of ad money excoriating him for being too "liberal", which had the effect of making the idea of voting for a Republican less unthinkable for New Yorkers.

In Bloomberg's case it was even weirder: on announcing, Bloomberg said that he was politically a Democrat but was running as a Republican to bypass the "Democratic machine".  You basically had two primaries.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 03:11PM | 0 recs
NOBODY is going to beat a Kennedy in

New York.  No Republican is going to win here.  This would be like a Democrat winning in Texas or Georgia.  

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:07PM | 0 recs
SCREW THEM

While I agree that Kennedy is not a great choice, Zimmerman and Applebaum can GO F THEMSELVES.  WHO THE F CARES IF CLINTON SUPPORTERS FEEL SLIGHTED BY KENNEDY BEING CHOSEN.   IF THEY ARE THAT F-ING PETTY THEN  PLEASE LEAVE THE PARTY.  NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS.  ELECTION IS OVER.   OBAMA IS PRESIDENT.. HILLARY HELPED... HILLARY IS THE 5th HIGHEST RANKING PERSON IN GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW.  
WTF MORE DO THOSE JACKASSES WANT!

That being said, I'm with Bowers on Slaughter for the seat... even if she supports Kennedy for it.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-12-16 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

Clinton supporters worked very hard to win the Senate seat in New York.  Why should they hand the seat over to someone who opposed her candidacy for the presidency, and has no greater claim to public office than the fact she was born into wealth and privilege?  This is not a monarchy.  We don't annoint royaly; people earn their positions in our society--or should.

by candideinnc 2008-12-16 11:53AM | 0 recs
Er...

Why should they hand the seat over to someone who opposed her candidacy for the presidency

Because they're not petty, small-minded people who understand that appointments aren't always about who has the biggest "claim" to an office?

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

Why should who someone supported for President have anything to do with it?

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

I'll answer the rhetorical question, if only to vent...

The only possible reason that a potential appointee's considered preference for a candidate during the primary could be a factor is obvious to even the most casual observer. Sour Grapes!

Other reasons might (just as obviously) be entirely pure and untainted by such childishness, but when an opponent of Kennedy's consideration explicitly cites the fact of her primary support for Obama as the reason for disqualification, then the motive is plain and the rest of the jabber is just window-dressing.

by QTG 2008-12-16 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

And I said, I do not think Kennedy is the best choice.  But to list the fact she supported Obama as their MAIN reason to oppose her...  again... F THEM.  Seriously... I wouldn't hesitate to SLAP them... not punch but Slap... to insult them that badly for this type of horsecrap.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-12-16 12:54PM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

if it's the only reason, it's an insult to Barack.  If the other reason is that Teddy has promised he'll give preference to New York's needs only if his niece is appointed Senator, than that's a reason to disqualify her.  but the main reason is that there are others who've better earned this perk, it isn't often someone gets to be appointed a Senator, and that should be an earned honor.  Better a deserving nobody than appointing someone's niece.  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: That's a lie

it's not a lie, it was reported. I do not think Teddy claimed it was a lie.  Check out the NY Post?  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: NY Post?

I didn't lie and he didn't deny.  It's a NY rag?  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

Tony Weiner and Cuomo (once married to a Kennedy) want to be Senator. Next already, Caroline would be great, as would several others including Cuomo and Weiner. Something about running for a seat held by Moynihan and Clinton makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know who all these supposed Clinton supporters who are griping are, but I'm not one of them. Let's not try to use too wide strokes here. Unloess you're just trying to add to the Republican "momentum" like their latest attempt to nbust a big automworkers' union up for blood sport. I say f8ck THEM!

by Jeter 2008-12-16 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: SCREW THEM

IF they worked so hard to win it, shouldn't they be mad at the person who walked away from it, not the person who wants to fill that gap?

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 02:05PM | 0 recs
This is just really strange

It's neither unusual nor unsavory for an extreme party loyalist, big fancy name or not, to be given a congressional appointment that they might not initially seek for themselves by election.

In a few years, the voters can decide whether they want to keep her there or not.  This is how Democracy works.

It's odd that all these Clinton supporters came home for the election but are now doubting his (perfectly normal) agenda item.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: This is just really strange

who's agenda item. This isn't Barack's choice to make, and I doubt he's even weighing in. That would be very unlike him.  Caroline wants is and her uncle wants her to get it, but the choice is Patterson's and he says he'll pick the best person for New York. Perhaps that means Teddy's promises to help ny if his niece gets appointed a Senator is what he means, and perhaps there is someone he thinks is qualified and has earned it.    

by anna shane 2008-12-16 01:32PM | 0 recs
What About Patrick?

I guess Ted Kennedy realizes his son, Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-RI, is never going to distinguish himself as a leading light in the Senate.

by susie 2008-12-16 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

I oppose it, although i can see why Hillary isn't taking a stand. She looks ahead to what can be accomplished and she sees no reason to weigh in on matters that don't effect her. It's up to the governor.

but, I think Teddy is a fathead, I'll never get over the way he behaved after driving a young woman off a bridge.  that was too cowardly and self-serving for me to grasp, and he paid no price.

It seems that his family is against Andrew, for reasons similar to Sarah Palin's desire to get her ex-brother-in-law fired.  

If Caroline wants to go into politics, she should do it by running for office.

If Hillary's supporters are angry that there is no media backlash against picking a Kennedy, it has to do with the legacy argument that was leveled at her.  It's that double standard, we want women to run for office, but qualified ones, not those who only have famous names, or who have powerful senate uncles who are willing to promise to work only with her.  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 11:40AM | 0 recs
Caroline Kennedy

ROCKS!

I'm not from NY, so my opinion, like that of all others not from NY is worth diddly squat, but since we are all chiming in, I want to be on the record as being 100% in favor of putting this wonderful woman in the Senate immediately.

by QTG 2008-12-16 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

Corruption out of Chicago, nepotism out of New York... wow, we appear off to a great start at blowing it.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

Given the history of that seat, I honestly don't think people give a rat's ass about "nepotism".

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm not home

there are many choice. Barack dislikes lobbyists.  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 02:12PM | 0 recs
Say what?

What's that you say?  A couple bad apples spoiled the entire pie?

Why didn't you throw a Spitzer reference in there, too.  Heck, why not bitch about how Monica Lewinsky has doomed the Democrats, hmm?

Anyway, this word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

nep⋅o⋅tism   ˈnɛpəˌtɪ ;zəm Show Spelled Pronunciation  [nep-uh-tiz-uhm]
-noun patronage bestowed or favoritism shown on the basis of family relationship, as in business and politics: She was accused of nepotism when she made her nephew an officer of the firm.

Neither Obama, who supports the appointment, nor Patterson, who would make the appointment, is related to Kennedy.

And since when was corruption out of Chicago news?

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Say what?

Well, I'd say both of these as dominating the news cycles are pretty high negatives.

Of course, I'm not one to go onto a democratic blog and start accusing the owner of being a republican either, so i guess you have a certain perspective in mind.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Say what?

Nepotism would be if Patterson appointed his wife.  You're using the wrong word.

Otherwise "nepotism" would have dominated the news over the past eight years.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Say what?

More general... like "Kennedy" & Senate, but whatever.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Say what?

Well not to nitpick, but the point is that one's a crime, or at the very least seriously unethical, and the other is so common in this country that had Dubya not been so awful it would be a given that Jeb Bush would run some day.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:35PM | 0 recs
No problem with Kennedy

The Illinois thing is a problem, but this would be the best time for it to happen.  Once January comes around, it will be old news.  In 1993, Bill Clinton's first few years were pretty much destroyed because scandals popped up in mid 1993 and 1994.  This happening before Obama gets to office is better.  

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:48PM | 0 recs
I never called you a Republian

I just suggested that maybe you wanted the Republicans to win, maybe just a little.  Am I wrong?

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 12:52PM | 0 recs
uh, yea

funny too, ha ha.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 01:27PM | 0 recs
See?

I thought so.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-17 04:28AM | 0 recs
Re: How is the Caroline Kennedy thing

NY? I dunno about that, I was thinking of the overall perception.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

Well... lets be honest... its not like corruption is NEW to Chicago... although Blago seems to be raising the bar doesn't he?

I don't think nepotism for the Senate is that big of an issue... after all, Biden pretty much did that for his seat... even if it is more indirectly.

Politics is FULL of guys and girls operating off a relatives name...

Gore, Bayh, Hillary Clinton, Casey, hell FDR...

But at least they were all proven in lesser offices (or as First Lady)... and they won election.  Kennedy hasn't.    

I think they should let me move to NY and appoint me... if only because I'll tell the Blue Dogs to go F themselves.    I'll probably be booted in less than 6 years, but hey...It will be entertaining.

by yitbos96bb 2008-12-16 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Blowing it?

doing what we ought not, giving the perks to those born to it?  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: You say tomato...

so you say. so, what.  

by anna shane 2008-12-16 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

You and Juan Williams are in perfect agreement that all this raises Serious Questions. If only Tim Russert had lived long enough to see a blogger grow up to recognize that where there's this much smoke there must be fire.

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 02:14PM | 0 recs
Kennedy is the best choice

The Kennedy's are untouchable in both New York and Massachussetts and we would not have to worry about defending a House seat.  If someone like Gillibrand was appointed, we would surely lose her House seat by double digits in a special election.  Is this what you want?

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:06PM | 0 recs
It's a moot point but

I own property in NY-20. I think Gillibrand's seat can be held by a Democrat. The demographics in that area are shifting.

It's never going to be Gillibrand though... she's been eaten alive by the big guns... Kennedy and Cuomo. Too bad if you ask me.

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:10PM | 0 recs
Well

She could never say at this point that she wanted it. Her names would be mud in the Democratic Party for daring to stand in the way of Caroline Kennedy's dream to be Senator.

I heard a coy quote by her when the Clinton appointment was first made which DID certainly express interest... pre-Caroline though.

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

I don't think that's true at all.  Caroline Kennedy doesn't really wield much clout in the New York Democratic Party.  That's part of the reason you're hearing the grumbling that you are - a lot of the established political figures are all like "who the hell does she think she is?"

Not an entirely unjustified opinion.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:27PM | 0 recs
But

I think that Gillibrand has (or maybe at this point we need to say HAD?) political ambitions outside of NY?

But maybe you're right... maybe if Gillibrand really wanted this she'd be fighting hard for it. What this whole Caroline Kennedy thing makes crystal clear though is that us normal people really have no clue about the inner workings and deal making that goes on. We can speculate, that's it.

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: I love Gillibrand

She is extremely pro-gun and was supported strongly by the NRA in 2008.  This is perfect for NY-20, but awful for statewide.  

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:17PM | 0 recs
That's the one thing that bugs me

But all Dems go into rural areas like NY-20 and pledge to protect gun ownership for gaming and hunting (including Obama).

I have to believe that she'd take a similar stance statewide and enact typical Democratic non-leisure gun laws which are needed in urban areas?

Maybe I'm being naive?

You could make the same argument as to why Caroline Kennedy (who holds very urban views) would do well outside of the city? I guess the answer is fame and fortune? Depressing that.

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: It's a moot point but

Democrats have no bench in NY-20.  Pretty much every state Senate seat in the district is still held by Republicans and all but one or two Assembly seats are as well.  

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:18PM | 0 recs
I'm trying to get used to the idea

It seems like a done-deal at this point.

I live in Brooklyn and we own property upstate, so I see both worlds.

I was really gunning for Kirsten Gillibrand... a Democrat who actually knows upstate, has won tough races, defended her seat in the House and has paid her dues.

I'm so sick of media politics and celebrity promotions. Next we're going to see Oprah take Obama's seat... it seriously could happen at this rate.

As an aside, I think this has implications outside of NY. I really think Democrats have to acknowledge that Caroline Kennedy is most likely positioning herself to run for President in 2016. Is that what we want?

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:06PM | 0 recs
I got it from nowhere

It is just a personal theory.

But I think it is the trajectory we are looking at. I really do.

I have mixed feelings about it. Willing to keep an open mind about Caroline Kennedy.

by twinmom 2008-12-16 12:18PM | 0 recs
Caroline Is Running

Look - you better believe that CK has decided to go after the seat and plans on getting it either now by appointment or in 2010. She is putting NY on notice that whomever the Gov. picks they will be in for a steep fight to keep it.

Caroline is not going to slink away because she didn't get the initial nod. She has decided that she wants to be a Senator and in public politics - and a silly little appointment by an "elevated" Governor is not going to stop her from going after it.

It would be a mistake to underestimate her.  

by CB Todd 2008-12-16 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Caroline Is Running

Huh?  Did I miss the part where Caroline Kennedy established her reputation as a ruthless, take-no-prisoners campaigner?

The fact that she would apparently be more than happy to take the job if it's handed to her does not imply, to me at least, that she intends to launch a bruising primary challenge in 2010 to whomever gets the appointment.

Maybe this post was parody and I missed the joke.  Sorry if that's the case.

by Steve M 2008-12-16 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Caroline Is Running

lol, i give this props for its ruthlessness and exploitation of internet ether.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 12:21PM | 0 recs
if she is willing to run hard

for the seat in the 2010 primary, more power to her.

I would like to see a caretaker appointed now so that our deep pool of talented, qualified Dems in NY can duke this out in 2010.

by desmoinesdem 2008-12-16 12:59PM | 0 recs
I dont want to give up Gillibrand

as my Rep.  I can assure you that if she were to leave NY-20, a Republican would probably win this seat with about 60% of the vote in a special election.  I dont want a Republican representing me again.  

by Kent 2008-12-16 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment

It seems like the pushback is very useful, to the extent it requires Kennedy to actually go on record about her positions and fight for the job a little bit.

I mean, here we have someone who the media is treating as the frontrunner for the job, yet she apparently hasn't even told the person in charge of making the decision "what she thinks her qualifications are."  Come on.  Let's at least pretend for a few minutes that merit plays a part.

by Steve M 2008-12-16 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment

I'm pretty sure that quote was Patterson making a dig at her.

Anyway I agree that a pushback could be useful, but the media isn't focusing on the right people or the right reasons.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 12:19PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment

I agree with your interpretation.  Paterson has a snarky sense of humor that is, frankly, pretty awesome.

After all the speculation, at the end of the day I really doubt this is the direction he will decide to go in.  But it's really not the end of the world either way.  I'm just a little surprised at how many people are gung-ho over the notion.

by Steve M 2008-12-16 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment

Or dead set against it.

Personally, I'm marginally in favor, but only to keep Andrew Cuomo out.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Ken

"TPM reports that Kennedy has Sen. Harry Reid in her corner. Maybe she's better at this politics thing than we gave her credit for."

Look, there's little doubt she has the seat. She'd be a fool to put it out there if she didn't.

As for opposition, I don't really feel any toward it. And with Blagojevich, disgust.

Both of these stories are big negatives for Democrats at a time when we should be positioning to big legislative victories, not giving repubs talking points to drive up opposition.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Ken

Both of these stories are big negatives for Democrats at a time when we should be positioning to big legislative victories, not giving repubs talking points to drive up opposition.

You think going after JFK's daughter for a position that just about nobody outside of a wingnut fringer or a frothing-mad PUMA takes issue with is going to give the Republicans effective talking points?

And as far as Blagojevich goes... we're taking out the trash.  Unlike the Republicans.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 12:51PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Ken

Blago related alking points like this?

I was saddened to learn that at a time of national trial, when a president-elect is preparing to take office in the midst of the worst financial crisis in over seventy years, that the Republican National Committee is engaged in the sort of negative, attack politics that the voters rejected in the 2006 and 2008 election cycles.

The recent web advertisement, "Questions Remain," is a destructive distraction. Clearly, we should insist that all taped communications regarding the Senate seat should be made public. However, that should be a matter of public policy, not an excuse for political attack.

In a time when America is facing real challenges, Republicans should be working to help the incoming President succeed in meeting them, regardless of his Party.

From now until the inaugural, Republicans should be offering to help the President-elect prepare to take office.

Furthermore, once President Obama takes office, Republicans should be eager to work with him when he is right, and, when he is wrong, offer a better solution, instead of just opposing him.

This from Newt frikin'Gingrich.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Ken

I really don't think you can compare the two.  At all.

As far as Blagojevich goes, yeah it sucks, but there's really nothing to be done about it, nor was there anything we could have done to prevent it.  I don't see the use in hand-wringing.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 03:20PM | 0 recs
this is disgraceful.

Nepotism, just pure nepotism. What political has Caroline Kennedy done in her life other than be a Kennedy? This IS an insult to the Clintons, as first, Kennedy wanted Clinton to stay in the Senate, by endorsing her opponent, now she wants her seat. Make up your mind. She is nowhere near as qualified as Cuomo or Suozzi. There are also other women who are qualified for the seat. When Reid says we've had "rockstars," how dare he compare Caroline Kennedy to Hillary or RFK. Both of them worked in government before the seat, RFK as AG, Hillary as the head of the health care operation in 1994 in the WEST WING of the White House and chair of the Arkansas education reform in the 1980s.

by Lakrosse 2008-12-16 12:36PM | 0 recs
It's not nepotism

Neither her uncle nor her husband has the power to give her this job.  Stop using the term if you don't know what it means.

"Insult to the Clintons," indeed?  Why is it that Hillary Clinton's supporters don't even aspire to her grace and character?

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 12:48PM | 0 recs
yes, because if her name were not

Kennedy, she'd really have a chance at the seat, let alone her fame. Right. Yes, the Kennedy family, name, and apparatus are the only reasons she is being considered, as she hasn't even had a political task or job.

by Lakrosse 2008-12-16 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not nepotism

Some guy down the block just farted.  I'm relatively certain Lakrosse considers it an insult to the Clintons.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 02:45PM | 0 recs
The 25,000 Pyramid

"Okay.  Dominoes.... bales of wheat.... ummm... a duck.... the designated hitter rule.... Deadwood...."

"Things that are an insult to the Clintons?"




!!!DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!

by Jess81 2008-12-16 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not nepotism

How about Cronyism or Oligarchy?  I think the writer also mentioned RFK as well and didn't just single out Hillary Clinton.  You need to bash on those RFK supporters as well! If any are still living.  

by realtarheel 2008-12-16 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: this is disgraceful.

You obviously don't know what nepotism means.

Nepotism would be if Patterson gave the appointment to one of HIS relatives, dummy.

by Searching For Pericles 2008-12-16 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: this is disgraceful.

wait, wait, grammar patrol!

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-16 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm interested to hear you

 It won't be long, I guess, until Hillary herself is lumped among the Obamabots who do not respect Hillary, nor understand the depth of emotion with which her supporters invested themselves in her candidacy and and the lengths they will go to to defend her by throwing themselves figuratively and blogislatively in front of every ambition held by those who dared to not love her with the same fervor.

by QTG 2008-12-16 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm interested to hear you

Yep.  They're on the brink over at Alegre's Corner.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm interested to hear you

They've climbed back up to the brink? That's good news, cause for six months they've been in free fall like Wyle E. Coyote. Although, he usually realized when he went over the edge. Remember, he'd hold up a little sign? "Good-bye" or "Help!" or "Yikes".

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 03:20PM | 0 recs
Good lord

I have a lot of problems with this appointment, but I have to laugh at your use of RFK's tenure at AG and HRC's health care offfice in the WEST WING to criticize... nepotism.

You do know how they got those jobs, don't you?

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 02:32PM | 0 recs
they did work

before they received those positions. Caroline Kennedy has done nothing, which does not allow Reid to put her amongst RFK and Hillary.

by Lakrosse 2008-12-16 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

How many books have you written?

by BlueinColorado 2008-12-16 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

Done nothing?

Author, attorney, editor. Member of the board of directors of both the Commission on Presidential Debates and the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund. Also, vice chair of the board of directors of The Fund for Public Schools, director of the Office of Strategic Partnerships for the the New York City Department of Education, where she helped raise more than $65 million for the NYC public schools.

Kinda makes me wish I was as successful an underachiever as she has been.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

you do realize that there are many boards of directors/trustees which have members who do nothing but be on the panels? Investment banks have numerous VPs and executive VPs, many of whom do nothing. She's only on these boards because she is a Kennedy.

by Lakrosse 2008-12-16 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

...and she only raised $65 million for public schools because she's a Kennedy.

You're right.  What a loser!

by fogiv 2008-12-16 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

Caroline has a law degree; she has never practiced as an attorney.

by susie 2008-12-16 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: they did work

Technically, an attorney is one who acts on behalf of another person in some capacity (a.k.a attorney-in-fact).  An attorney-at-law, or lawyer, is a person trained and licensed by a relevant jurisdiction to practice law by representing clients in legal matters and giving legal advice.  She's a member of the New York and Washington, D.C. bar associations.

By either definition, she's an attorney.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 08:39PM | 0 recs
Reiteration

She has never practiced as an attorney.

by susie 2008-12-16 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Reiteration

...in what way does that negate her law training?  Tell me, how many legislators in both houses of congress have a JD, but have never practiced.

Here's one: Chuck Schumer.  He earned his Juris Doctor from Harvard in '74; passed the NY Bar Exam in '75 but never practiced.  He entered politics instead.

by fogiv 2008-12-16 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Reiteration

I simply gave a statement.

No mention of negating her law training.

A statement of fact may be, and often is, interpreted any number of ways.

by susie 2008-12-16 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Reiteration

Your statement of fact appeared to be offered as means to diminish CK's accomplishments.  Given the context of the thread, I made the logical interpretation.  

by fogiv 2008-12-16 10:09PM | 0 recs
Keywords: Appeared, Interpretation

Sometimes the reader of comments would do well to step back from his/her own opinion/agenda and examine a statement on its face value.

Not everyone on this blog is heavily invested in one opinion or another.  Some just like to offer an objective look at the subject at hand.

by susie 2008-12-17 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Keywords: Appeared, Interpretation

Uh huh.

by fogiv 2008-12-17 08:57AM | 0 recs
Nnneigh nnnneigh!!! The show pony

from the Upper East Side wants to be handed one of 100 US Senate seats.

by activatedbybush 2008-12-16 12:55PM | 0 recs
Yeah shut yer trap

"Show pony."

Is that sexism, class warfare, or are you just being a jagoff because it makes you feel good about yourself?

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 01:05PM | 0 recs
I prefer to call it the enlightened opinion

Thank you for providing the fool's retort.

by activatedbybush 2008-12-16 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I prefer to call it the enlightened opinion

Uh huh.  [citation needed]

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

I've kept my comments about the issue on the positive side up till now, but have to say it bothers me to learn that Caroline is hiring people to essentially pressure for her appointment. The only reason she's in that highly select line in the first place is because of her maiden name. Her apparent unwillingness to stand in that line just like everyone else now and wait her turn, is off putting quite frankly.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-12-16 01:04PM | 0 recs
You mean her "name"

"Kennedy" is her name, not her "maiden name."  She didn't change it.

Subtle, but important.

Nobody goes around calling "Clinton" Hillary's "married name," even though she used to go by "Rodham" or "Rodham-Clinton" before Bill got elected to national office.

It's just her name.  Leave it at that.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: You mean her "name"

Ok, sorry. It's the way my mother referred to her unmarried name, and I grew up with. I didn't mean anything by that.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-12-16 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: You mean her "name"

Well technically, Kennedy is her maiden name, although I can't imagine why anyone cares about that. If my maiden name was Kennedy, or Clinton or Obama, I imagine I'd hang onto it too. Nothing wrong in being proud of your family.

by Denny Crane 2008-12-16 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

This is reminding me of a story I remember reading as a teenager, about a teenaged Caroline Kennedy going into an ice cream shop, in New York I think, walking to the head of the line and demanding to be served right away "because I am Caroline Kennedy."  I am surprised this story is coming back to me now, but being somewhat intrigued by her as a kid born within a year of her it just stuck with me I guess.  

Even though this old story is strikingly familiar to what appears to be happening today, I remain more for than against the idea of her being appointed to the vacant Senate seat.  Call me in the tank for the Kennedys.

by lakelover 2008-12-16 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

Are you sure that's not apocryphal?  I'd guess that it is for two reasons: the spoiled kid demanding ice cream is a cliche, and it's hard to imagine a teenager demanding... ice cream.

Make her younger and have her trying to shove her way to the front of the line for something other than ice cream and it won't ring false.

by Jess81 2008-12-16 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

No, it was a newspaper story that ran in the old Minneapolis Tribune or Minneapolis Star.  The incident probably occurred on a hot summer day in New York.  I went to law school there and can imagine the scene pretty vividly - a lot of people live there and even on chilly days ice cream shops can have long lines.  I stood in those lines to get ice cream in my 20s.  I have no reason to doubt the story, which was run in a reputable newspaper.

by lakelover 2008-12-17 03:34AM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy

I don't particularly relish Kennedy for the seat - in my mind, it would be a legacy appointment and I'm sure that there are more deserving politicians.  That said, the idea that her appointment would be a "slight" annoys me.  I thought that we had moved past all of that.

by rfahey22 2008-12-16 01:05PM | 0 recs
NY-sen and IA-sen

breaking, vilsack gets agriculture.  also, on NY-sen, this is going to sound crazy, but how about ferraro as a placeholder?  hillary supporter, NY roots, qualified, not likely to run fora full term, and it will mend fences between the two camps.  in all honesty after what happened during the primary, she should get something.  if obama does well as prez, she will most likely go down in history as the woman mentioned in obama's race speech.  

by Doug Tuttle 2008-12-16 01:07PM | 0 recs
You're joking, yes?

in all honesty after what happened during the primary, she should get something.

Surely you can't be serious.  Even if what she did was appropriate behavior, she draws her paychecks from FOX News.  The conflict of interest would be ridiculous.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-16 01:11PM | 0 recs
Yep, that sounds crazy
I wasn't even a Barack supporter in the primaries and I was offended by Ferraro's comments.
She's too old, potentially racist, and not a team player.  
by ChgoSteve 2008-12-16 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment Buil

At this point, the governor of NY has to decide whether he wants NY to become a laughing joke like Illinois. Nominating Kennedy would seal that title. Is she the only qualified woman in NY with qualifications? HELL NO! There are so many more young qualified women or men with more experience, who deserve this and have better experience in upstate NY. Nobody had even mentioned Caroline before the 2008 campaign. There are literally so many more qualified people, this is just sad.

by bsavage 2008-12-16 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re:what?

 Some may find the prospect of Senator Caroline Kennedy 'just sad', but I find the prospect 'just wonderful' on about 75 different levels. It will be like Christmas, my birthday, a ski weekend, the 4th of July, watching shoes flying toward Bush's head, and hitting the Lottery - all combined with that 'new car' smell.

by QTG 2008-12-16 02:22PM | 0 recs
Living in Kirstin Gillibrand's district she is

very highly regarded, smart, teleginic, extremely hard working and was relected in this heavily repubican district with 62% ov the vote.  Her opponent spent millions but he lost big.  She's highly qualified to be Senator and has earned her place in Congress.  If it isn't Gillibrand, Patterson should pick another upstater.  We've been really neglected up here and although Caroline Kennedy is obviously an intelligent woman, she doesn't know beans about the concerns of the farmers and other interests upstate.  The area is trending democratic but it could easily reverse if upstate concerns aren't addressed.  Let's hope she's a quick study.

by laternighter 2008-12-16 03:13PM | 0 recs
Living in Kirstin Gillibrand's district she is

very highly regarded, smart, teleginic, extremely hard working and was relected in this heavily repubican district with 62% of the vote.  Her opponent spent millions but he lost big.  She's highly qualified to be Senator and has earned her place in Congress.  If it isn't Gillibrand, Patterson should pick another upstater.  We've been really neglected up here and although Caroline Kennedy is obviously an intelligent woman, she doesn't know beans about the concerns of the farmers and other interests upstate.  The area is trending democratic but it could easily reverse if upstate concerns aren't addressed.  Let's hope she's a quick study.

by laternighter 2008-12-16 03:14PM | 0 recs
Upstate

"She reportedly intends to "demonstrate that she has both the ability and the stomach to perform the job, with plans to visit parts of the upstate region,"

Great, it's probably here first time there. I would bet she hasn't even made it out to Brooklyn yet.

As grubby and obnoxious as elections are, they are trying and exhastive experiances that let politicians know who they are supposed to represent. Mark Warner was a ultra-rich bussinessman in NoVA, but he spent years building contacts with voters in pretty remote and rural parts of the state years before he ran for office.

Let Patterson appoint a caretaker. If Caroline Kennedy wants the seat so bad, there's an election in two years. Let's see her shaking hands in front of plant gates in Buffalo at 5 in the morning for the next two years, smoozing with precient captains in Utica and do all nasty dirty work that takes to run for office. If she can pull it off, then I'll say she's ready for the office.

That fact that her move is to pick some right-creep publicist dosen't make me trust her judgement all that much.  

by alexmhogan 2008-12-16 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: NY-Sen: Opposition To Kennedy Appointment Buil

There seems to be excitement in the air that one of America's princesses, a political family's princess, that is, has decided at the age of 51 to go into the family business. Of course when you're a princess, only the best will do. And if you've got your eye on a Senate seat, why not as a Senator from one of the more populous states? In fact, why bother with elections when you can be appointed?

Caroline Kennedy, born of a privileged family, seems to be a very nice woman who's managed to reach middle age without having any substantial career outside the family except for some writing and lots of charity work. And, yes, even her stint with the public schools was more of that fundraising and charitable work. She's really good at raising money. Now, as to substance. It's true that she went to Radcliffe and Columbia Law, but that's not a great achievement for someone with her money and family connections. I'd be more impressed with that were she from Anywhere USA with no money or pedigree.

Interestingly, she neither distinguished herself academically nor took on noteworthy work after graduation. Rather she wrote two legal books with a law school friend, who most likely did the writing and was happy to share authorship with a name that would sell. Fair contribution, but not a true achievement. But more to the point, does she have what it takes to fight for New York?

Hillary Clinton did indeed work and distinguish herself even before becoming First Lady. As the junior senator from New York, she became known as a very hardworking senator. A highly intelligent overachiever. A role model whose shoes I don't believe Caroline Kennedy could ever fill. The populous State of New York needs more than a dilettante sitting in the Senate, charming as she may be. We've learned that Hillary knows policy and the ins and outs of complicated issues.

Let Caroline, if she's interested in politics, begin working her way up. At least a little. Maybe she could begin by campaigning publicly rather than privately, and going through an election process. There is no reason to start at the top by getting the spot with an appointment. New York deserves better. Anyway, isn't this the year we were discouraging women who didn't have real qualifications?  http://barbaraspen.blogspot.com/

by drcatalyst 2008-12-16 05:14PM | 0 recs
Opposition?

If there's opposition, let them put forth an alternative candidate.  Pick one, get that person on talk shows, we'll see who's better. Caroline's doing all the correct aristocratic things to aristocratically take daddy's old seat. If the small-d democrats what to stop her, they should start getting democratic. Someone challenge her to a debate or something.

by riboflavin 2008-12-16 08:19PM | 0 recs

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