Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Finally getting to the shoe throwing incident, what a truly bizarre event. I agree with Josh Marshall, that was one hell of a reaction Bush had, ducking as quickly as he did (seconded only in impressiveness by the thrower himself whose aim was ridiculously on target.)

I have to say, my immediate reaction was a bit of sympathy for Bush and admiration at his reaction time, which was followed by resentment toward the shoe thrower for making me feel that sympathy toward the man who has served as villain #1 for 8 years now.

The fact that the shoe throwing incident, which is an embarrassing event no matter how you slice it, has dominated the news from Bush's final Iraq trip, which was supposed to be part of his legacy PR tour, offers some satisfaction, as does the fact that the guy who threw his shoes is now considered a folk hero in the Arab world. This event could not have expressed more clearly the damage Bush and his policies have done to our image in the world, the repair of which, thank God, we are about to embark on in the coming months.

So here is video of the event and Bush's classic post-shoe press conference as well as a funny parody video.

Consider this a thread to discuss your thoughts on the incident and anything else on your mind tonight...

Tags: George W Bush, Iraq, shoe incident (all tags)




The layers of symbolism in this incident are really poetic. On the one hand, getting a shoe thrown at you at a farewell press conference is the ultimate embarrassing punctuation on a failed policy. On the other hand, that guy had thrown a shoe at Saddam, he'd be a martyr, not just a folk hero.

by riboflavin 2008-12-15 03:17PM | 0 recs
I agree--talented athletic displays by all. n/t

by Bob Sackamento 2008-12-15 03:37PM | 0 recs
Don't like it

I hate Bush as much as the next guy, but throwing shoes at the man is an insult also to the Presidency of the United States.  Granted, this president is a total fuck-up, but there are a myriad ways to show your distaste for the guy.  Not appropriate at all, and to me certainly not as funny as many view it.

by Sieglinde 2008-12-15 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't like it

and...... the presidency of the us does not deserve to be insulted?

not just funny, but poignant.

by citizendave 2008-12-15 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't like it

It doesn't. No more than the head of state of any other country.

But it's also not appropriate to prevent non-violent insults. I can disapprove of the actions, and I do: I don't want even Bush to be a victim of extra-legal violence. But that doesn't mean I don't understand or sympathize with the tosser. It's silly he's being prosecuted. Just detain him until Bush leaves the country and make sure the Blackwater guys don't try to ice him afterwards.

by MNPundit 2008-12-15 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't like it
Criticism is ultimately an act of bravery and respect.  We've made some grave mistakes, and Bush is our standard-bearer in that; for this man to put his life at risk in an attempt to communicate the magnitude of our error...we should be thankful(I predict, by-and-large, that we won't be).
Still, this:
" insult to the Presidency of the United States."
Sigh.  Goddamn fascists.
by Endymion 2008-12-15 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't like it

Right, so the next time a neo-Nazi in Berlin (or wherever) welcomes Obama with flying berets (or whatever they could sneak into a press conference), we should be thankful that he/she would "put his life at risk in an attempt to communicate the magnitude of our error" (which I'm assuming would be the grave error in electing a black president).

And while we're at it, let's throw stuff at people we don't like today.  I've decided that I'm throwing my hard drive at my dissertation advisor, for obvious reasons.

It's not a question of fascism.  It's a question of civilized behavior.  The other side of the coin, of course, would be to do all sorts of non-violent means to show your distaste for the guy.  To impeach him, for starters, is also civilized thing to do.

by Sieglinde 2008-12-17 03:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

This guy IS a hero. Its time someone did this, as it reflects the feeling of the entire world. It also gives us a great talking point: a Republican was the first President to have a shoe thrown at him. The GOP: the tossed shoe party.

by Lakrosse 2008-12-15 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

This reader embodies the problem: Republican or Democratic he is an American President. People like to put the Republican first but that is incorrect.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 05:43PM | 0 recs
Exactly - -

and before anyone yucks it up, remember, in a few weeks the shoe (no pun intended) will be on the other foot - -

by kosnomore 2008-12-15 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly - -

And if Obama uses our military to attack and occupy an innocent country killing hundreds of thousands of their citizens and forcing more to flee across the border in exile, then I will laugh when he too gets a shoe thrown at him.  Understand this, when America does something wrong it is wrong.  Waving the flag and saying it must be right because we are America does not change that.

by GFORD 2008-12-15 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly - -

Great point.  That's one of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives.  Liberals are willing (sometimes too willing, admittedly) to call our own country out when it has done something terribly wrong, such as the Iraq War, our treatment of Native Americans, slavery, Japanese internment, unilateral uncritical support for Israel.  

Conservatives believe we should support our country no matter what, even when it is wrong.  And they believe that pointing out mistakes means not supporting our country.  To them, protest is a four-letter word.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-12-15 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

There's nothing satisfactory about this.  The subject is being tortured in an Iraqi prison as we speak, and the fallout absolutely has the potential to end any cease-fire being observed by the Sadrists.  In unstable societies, a small spark can cause a lot of pain.  There have already been demonstrations demanding his release, and if his torture is connected to the Maliki government you're going to have chaos.

by dday 2008-12-15 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Then the US should agitate for his release.  That would be both the realpolitik response and a good PR opportunity.  A competent Administration would be magnanimous, and there would be no fallout whatsoever.  

by Endymion 2008-12-15 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Most people seem to agree that Bush demonstrated great reaction time.

I said to my dad, "Can you imagine McCain trying to dodge that shoe?"

He responded, "Yeah, but Barack, he would have caught it!"

"What if it had been Hillary?" I asked.

"She would have thought she was under mortar fire."

A funny guy, my dad.

by Steve M 2008-12-15 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

McCain would have been hit by the shoe then gotten up and started grabbing any shoes he could find to overwhelm him with a 10-pair assault.

by MNPundit 2008-12-15 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

&*^*S  this shoe throwing clown..

I agree with what was written above: the presidency of the United States does not deserve to be insulted.

People need to realize that the President represents the United States. We may disagree with him (soo much) but he represents us...

Good for Buch for handling it well.. imagine if he'd gotten hit?

I mean a way of looking at this: do you agree when people chant "Death to America" in the Middle East?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

I don't support the chanting of "death to America," but that's a far cry different from someone throwing a shoe at a man who has wreaked devastation on an entire country.  Bush deserved it.  I don't, as an American, feel the least bit slighted that this guy threw a shoe at Bush.    

by slynch 2008-12-15 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Talk about a false equivalency: Death to the USA does not compare to a thrown shoe. This idea that Bush deserves respect just because he is president doesn't fly for me. After the incident he said he didn't know what that guy's "beef" was. Can he honestly believe that? I don't know, but if he does he is truly pathetic and lacks insight and empathy.

A friend of mine pointed out that Obama may get some shoes thrown at him and if he doesn't shut down Gitmo, end torture, and the wars I would think it was justified. What we have done to the Iraqi people is unimaginable and Saddam's brutality in no way justifies it.

Normally I don't support violence, and I am glad the shoe did not hit Bush, but it is a powerful symbol and one that will resonate for decades to come.

by Lolis 2008-12-15 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Yes a symbol of American weakness.

Nice. Lets see how that helps Obama.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: I mean a way of looking at this: do you agree
"I mean a way of looking at this: do you agree when people chant "Death to America" in the Middle East?"
You know, when I see angry people, I ask myself, 'did I maybe do something to piss them off?'
by Endymion 2008-12-15 07:49PM | 0 recs
Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .
It could have been an assassination attempt.
It's NOT funny.  It's disgusting that some people think it is.
You need to separate the office of the president from the man who holds the office.
Why should you ever resent having a sense of pride in the quick reaction of OUR / YOUR president (and he's ours / yours whether you like him or not).  He's a jackass, but he's OUR jackass.
And the parody . . . as funny as making fun of a blind governor.
by kosnomore 2008-12-15 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

YOU need to separate the man from the office.  He threw the shoe at W, not the Presidency.

Bush deserves more than a shoe being thrown at him.  He deserves prison.

by slynch 2008-12-15 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Incorrectamundo. He threw the shoe at the President of the United States who was there are President of the United States.

When he is no longer President and he gets a shoe thrown at him it will be as a private citizen who happens to be a former President.

The naivety on this forum is simply astounding.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

I disagree with you completely.  He threw a shoe at Bush, and he called him a dog.  He said Bush was a dog.  He didn't say that the position of the presidency was for dogs.  He wasn't aiming for the seal of the presidency.  He was aiming for Bush specifically.  When I say the president is a moron, I'm not denigrating the office, I'm denigrating the placeholder.  

You're the naive one.

by slynch 2008-12-15 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

You are beyond naive if you think that when the President of the United States is thrown a shoe at  it has nothing to do with the United States. I suppose if the President was blown up you'd say it had nothing to do with the United States either!


by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Give me a break.  Your namecalling is juvenile, not to mention grossly misplaced.  I'm betting you're half my age with half my education.  And, you're proving your shallow intellectual capacity in this thread.  If you can't see that this was a response to Bush specifically, then you're too dumb to waste time talking to.

Your comparison of "blowing up" the president is ludicrous hyperbole, and this, coming from the person who just criticized another person for using a Hitler analogy.  Hypocrisy much?

But, you know what?  I think anti-American sentiment by Iraqis is very well deserved.  The majority of this country supported this moron president in his efforts to destroy a country for no reason whatsoever.  Perhaps we NEED to have some public displays against us.  So, even if this journalist's shoe-throwing was aimed at the US, and not just Bush (which is a ridiculous stretch), what we've done in that country is wrong.

by slynch 2008-12-15 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

It may be wrong but it won't be fixed by throwing shoes at the President of the United States.

Your comments about education and age are pretty misguided by the way but its a no win situation right? I mean if I say I have a Masters in Foreign Service you'll say I didn't learn much! And maybe you'd be right! To say that because a person has more "education" they always know what they are talking about? Well thats silly don't you think?

Your understanding or lack of understanding of foreign policy and the role of the president is naive and you did not answer the so called hyperbole. If the President gets blown up or lets say shot at instead of having a shoe thrown at him is it the institution and the nation affected? Its just about Bush if he gets shot? And its not much of a hyperbole by the way because if the guy could throw two shoes at him why couldn't he have thrown a dart at him and killed him?

But fine you want to think its funny and has only to do with Bush? Its only Bush being made a laughinstock? Not the US? And if it is the US I guess you'd say we deserve it anyways and it will not impact negatively on the ability of a future President to assert American power. Oh I guess you don't believe in American power? Lets all Kumbaya! World government! Why should Obama's administration have any power anyways!

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Bush's presidency is what will impact negatively on the ability of a future president to assert American power, not the throwing of a shoe. And yes we have been a laughingstock because we as a people reelected Bush, even with all his failures. The US has made some terrible mistakes, and many innocent lives have been lost. Were you this incensed when Dr. Ben Marble, outraged by the people dying in the streets in Katrina's aftermath, yelled for Cheney to f himself during a television broadcast in Mississippi? He was, after all, disrespecting the office of the vice presidency of the United States. That man made it more difficult for the presidency to assert it's power. In fact, all the angry people in New Orleans and Mississippi have really made it difficult to respect the presidency.

Our government under Obama should have power, but we should earn it. I supported Obama because I believe he can and will earn it. I may be young, naive, and without a Masters in Foreign Service, but I was always taught one earns respect. You don't just demand it.

by cecilybecily 2008-12-16 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Nonesense. Absolute hogwash. The power of the President of the United States has been earned over more than 200 years by the blood, sweat and tears of the collective sum of Americans. Its not something that Bush had to earn when he walked into the White House. Its an INSTITUTION.

As far as outrage over Katrina: yes I was outraged but I wouldn't use an F word when talking to a President or VIce President no matter how much I disagree. I was raised better than that and am able to express myself without resorting to four letter words!

by obama4presidente 2008-12-16 01:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

I am so consfused as to whether you are a real person or a charicature of some bowtied hygiene professor from a black and white 1950's educational film strip explaining exactly why rock and roll is the work of the devil. Honestly.  

And I find it rather strange that someone is more "outraged" about cuss words than about the thousands of lives that have been lost as a direct result of Bush's policies. No, it's beyond strange. It's remarkably offensive and dangerous for our society.

by cecilybecily 2008-12-17 05:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Using your logic the Iraqis should have defended Saddam Hussein.  Sure, he was an asshole but he was THEIR asshole.

That reporter is a national hero for Iraqis.  He showed Bush (and the world) the contempt they were feeling in no uncertain terms.  I too have nothing but contempt for Bush and wouldn't stick up for him if it was rotten eggs being thrown either.  

by GFORD 2008-12-15 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Wow talk about a ridiculous thing to say: Hussein was a dictator while Bush was elected (I may not agree with the Supreme Court but thats the system).

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .
Under Hussein, this journalist would have been detained in secret with no certain outcome.  For Bush, this journalist is being detained in secret with no certain outcome.  
Sure, Bush isn't a dictator in America, but in Iraq he's nothing more than the head commander of an occupying power that invaded without provocation.  
Personally, I don't agree with the system that Saddam Hussein set up in Iraq to declare himself the rightful President of that state but that's the system, or at least it was until we forced the Iraqis to discard their Constitution and use a new one that we wrote for them.  
Seriously:  This is my shoe.  Put it on our head.
by Endymion 2008-12-15 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

"For Bush, this journalist is being detained in secret with no certain outcome."

Huh?  Back up that statement.  If he threw the shoes at Saddam, he most certainly would have been hauled off, tortured, and swiftly executed.  The article I read on this yesterday indicated that this journalist faced up to 2 years in prison for assaulting a visiting head of state.

So to hell with your bogus equivalency.

by XoFalconXo 2008-12-16 03:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Funny, but Hussein was "elected" as well.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-12-15 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Bush wasn't elected by the Iraqis.  They had absolutely no say in the fact that they're under his absolute control.

by Jess81 2008-12-15 09:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Since Obama is now our president, will you offer a retraction on all of your posts that associated his name with the name of the terrorist that killed 3,000 Americans?  Will you apologize for the fear mongering use of Hussein in every single one of your references to our new President?  Or will you go on pretending that you never wrote those now-deleted posts, only to now feign outrage at everyone and everything?

You're a coward.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-12-15 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

Yowza.  This, times several.

by lojasmo 2008-12-16 12:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .
It wasn't a rock, bomb or knife, it was a piece of clothing. What's more, it probably *couldn't* have been a rock, bomb or knife since they presumably check for those things. "It could have been an assassination attempt" is the same rationale they use to keep protesters segregated in "free speech zones".
by sneakers563 2008-12-15 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe could have been rock, bomb, knife . . .

He's not MY jackass.  Maybe he's yours.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-12-15 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

I'm amazed by some of the comments here, as if Bush truly is above the law because he occupied the office of president and therefore must be respected regardless of the damage he did, and damage he attempted to do.

By your measure, simply because Hitler occupied the office of Furer, he also must be respected, and that's just crazy.

Sorry, I don't care WHO you are - respect is earned, and clearly Bush is leaving office as nothing more than an ugly blot upon our national history - Nixon II.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-12-15 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

amen.  exactly right.

by slynch 2008-12-15 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

ah the Hitler analogy...

The true sign of a desperate person is when they pull that one out..

by obama4presidente 2008-12-15 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread
..."the Hitler analogy..."
Done better.
by Endymion 2008-12-15 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Not at all - I labled it 'crazy' myself, and your effort to distort the context of my comment dosen't wash.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-12-16 03:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

It IS funny. That's my opinion. You have as much right to yours as I have to mine. The Presidency is still manned by a human being. He does not become deified. Bush is a liar. He does not care about anyone who is not rich (And invariably white.). That's is what I believe. Therefore, this man who was taking out his frustration at this liar on behalf of the upwards of 1,000,000,000 Iraqi men/women and children who were killed in our illegal invasion of their country IS justified. Further, the 4000 American military personnel killed, and the 30,000 injured deserve to have a shot at this pig also. Make no mistake,the presidency is what the MAN who mans it makes it, and unfortunately this MAN made a shitpile of it.

by onlinesavant 2008-12-15 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Exactly. If more people threw shoes at our congressmen of both parties, maybe they wouldnt be agreeing to ridiculous bailouts.

by Pravin 2008-12-16 08:15AM | 0 recs
A Shakespearan figure...

...such as this buffon deserves no sympathy on any level.  The man is covered in blood.  So, there are some that say this Iraqi journalist actually made them feel sorry for him?  Look at Bush's reaction to all of this.  Flippant and non-chalant.  This man gutted the country of the man throwing the shoe by killing thousands of innocent Iraqis and smashing their infrastructure into oblivion.  He is responsible for the deaths of American military presonnel who is not to question policy but to serve all the while shattering surviving American families lives with a legacy of pain that is unimaginable.  He instituted the CPA's infamous article denying jurisdiction over all American personnel who are accountable for nothing and immune to Iraqi law thereby implying Iraqi citizens are not quite equal to American lives.  What a shit.  

And some are upset a shoe was hurled at this delusional maniac?  You've got to be kidding.  Dante's 9 circles of hell aren't even adequate enough to contain the entrails of this reprehensible human stain. He actually believes he is some kind of hero.  He is only a "President" on the whims of an ideologically right wing supreme court without the benefit of electoral legitimacy.  He certainly does not represent me or my country.  He is there only by the grace of a backboneless opposition party who cowared in his presence for reasons that even now remain inexplicable. They share the shame of Iraq with him.  A shoe?  How pathetic in contrast to what he has done.


by DuvalDem 2008-12-15 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Yea, great post, it was almost like Bush practiced the dodge-- the second one he seemed like, got any more?  Funny shit.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-12-15 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Nothing to laugh about...

by lori 2008-12-15 06:48PM | 0 recs
i'm not happy abou this

I'm not really happy about it because it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change all the deaths that have resulted from the Iraq war. It doesn't change the fact that our economy is in the toilet. It doesn't change the fact that New Orleans is still in disarray. It doesn't change the fact that thousands are losing their jobs every day.

It's just another embarrassing moment in an embarrassing presidency. Everyone is applauding this, and I ask, "Why?"

Why do you applaud the fact that someone has driven the office of Presidency to such a disrespect that journalists are driven to throw their shoes at them, a sign of huge disrespect in their culture? You may say, "Huzzah!"

Instead, I'm saddened not that this happened -- but rather because it was made possible because of our lowest international standing perhaps ever.

So don't applaud this symbolic, useless act that is great fodder for cable news networks and the Daily Show. Instead, work to make sure that we repair our country so this never happens again.

by fbihop 2008-12-15 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

In my opinion, Bush has done so much to denigrate the office of POTUS, he should no longer be given the privilege of the standing of the office.

The shoe guy threw a shoe at a complete ass-clown who destroyed his country, and probably was responsible for the deaths of many of his friends, and possibly family.

I'm glad the shoe didn't hit bush, but the situation was a powerful symbol of the damage bush has done over there, and to the reputation of the U.S.

by lojasmo 2008-12-16 12:52AM | 0 recs
I can't get behind this

because I don't support assault and battery.

Condoning this means that when you feel "justified" you can throw a shoe at someone. We have prisons full of people who believe that, I am not one.

I hope the show thrower is prosecuted to the fullest extent of their law.

by Neef 2008-12-16 02:49AM | 0 recs
Hooray for shoes!

by carrieboberry 2008-12-16 03:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

This incident may not be the equivalent of tossing a bomb at the president, but neither is it equivalent to waving a sign and shouting protests.  The fact is that the man attempted to do violence to the president.  He should be locked up for a very long time.

I ordinarily like to think that we, as liberals, represent the heart and soul of America and, further, that we also represent the majority of Americans.  When I read comments like those in this thread, I wonder really how out of touch we are.  There are acceptable ways to protest.  This wasn't one of them.  Period.

by XoFalconXo 2008-12-16 03:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

It wasn't acceptable to YOU. PERIOD. If someone who commits wanton acts of violence subsequently has violence practiced upon them, then so be it. bush is a LIAR. bush, callously committed this country to the illegal invasion of another country to "Get the man who tried to kill his daddy."It's that simple. Sadly, bush didn't even care about ideology, he was only concerned about one upping his father. The toxic brew of PNAC backed him up. I do believe that this was just something that this country had to go through. Maybe so that we could get to Obama. Maybe simply to make us understand that the process does matter, and it DOES matter who the president is. Regardless, to say that someone who LIED, and showed a fundamental disregard for human life, the culture of a people much older than ours, AND has displayed a willful unwillingeness to even admit that he was wrong, deserves to have a shoe thrown at him. Some would say he deserves much worse.

by onlinesavant 2008-12-16 04:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Perhaps he does deserve much more.  Perhaps he deserves to be brought up for war crimes before an appropriate international tribunal.  

Throwing shoes at him, however, was a criminal act in and of itself.  By advocating for it, you are advocating for criminal assault and battery.  What you're saying is that violence is justified as a means to your desired end.  So, yes, I suppose it is my "opinion" that this is unacceptable.  But the law agrees with me.

by XoFalconXo 2008-12-16 05:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

he should be locked up FOR A LONG TIME for a freaking shoe????? Let him go to jail for disturbing the peace and for throwing an object at a head of state.

What Bush and cheney did to many innocent people with their war policy was a lot more heinous than a freaking shoe being tossed at someone. Or one of those Katrina victims may have preferred Bush to throw a shoe at them to the negligence by his administration.

by Pravin 2008-12-16 08:12AM | 0 recs
It's a false equivalency

What Bush did to the Iraqis was worse than X, for a whole hell of a lot of values of X.

That doesn't justify X.

I'm really curious where people would draw the line. A thrown shoe could be a bloody nose. Would a punch in the face be fine? What about a broken kneecap?

Judging by the prevailing reaction, I suspect some "Progressives" would be fine with the broken kneecap, which sort of makes you wonder why they object to Gitmo.

by Neef 2008-12-16 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: It's a false equivalency

Gitmo has the possibility of innocent poeple detained. If some guy tortures a terrorist caught in action, I could care less. The only reason why I would not advocate it is because it is supposedly not that effective and it will set a bad precedent for other countries to do the same.

by Pravin 2008-12-16 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: It's a false equivalency

So torture is cool with you as long as it does not entail any practical consequences for the torturer?  

Theres an admission coming from a very dark place.  Unfortunatly, this is the place you ultimately end up when you advocate for violent acts committed against a country's leader.

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but don't try to pretend there is anything the least bit progressive about it.

by XoFalconXo 2008-12-16 09:30AM | 0 recs
Well, at least you're honest

This whole episode that has exposed a surprisingly bloodthirsty streak on the Left.

by Neef 2008-12-16 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least you're honest

I never said I belong to the left. It just happens that I am a frequent defender of the left on this blog because leftist leaders are too chicken to do so. I am pro death penalty. I am indifferent on torture of people caught in the act. I think it is strategically not a good thing because you can have rogue agents use it out of indifference or recklessness when it comes to a possibly innocent person getting tortured. I do not like state agents having too much power. Example: The abuses of NY pigs on minorities.

But morally, it doesn't make me lose sleep.

by Pravin 2008-12-16 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, at least you're honest

C0orrection: I meant Democratic leaders, not Leftist leaders, are too chicken to defend the leftist base of the party.

by Pravin 2008-12-16 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

Apparently, IRAQI LAW disagrees with you. Contrary to what you my think , it is unknown as to what will happen to him as much of Iraq supports him. Fact: The journalist faces no charges with regards to throwing shoes at Bush. He faces charges with "Assaulting the Prime Minister."

by onlinesavant 2008-12-16 05:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

I understand.  When the facts disagree with you, just make up your own!  Unfortunately, theres this: i?f=/c/a/2008/12/16/MNLP14ODPP.DTL

which includes this:

"While he has not been formally charged, Iraqi officials said he faces up to seven years in prison for committing an act of aggression against a visiting head of state."

by XoFalconXo 2008-12-16 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Shoe Thrower Guy Open Thread

"While not being formally charged he Iraqi officials said he faces seven years in prison" Well, what Iraqi officials? My source is Michael Ware of "Anderson Cooper 360" ( Comes on every night at at 10:00p.m.) and he happens to reside in Bagdhad. As a matter fact, he is the Bagdhad bureau chief, so I think that his sources are more impeccable than some "Iraqi officials". Listen, it's obvious that you don't adhere to my perspective on this issue, and I not to yours. Regardless, we'll see what happens to this journalist in due time. My bet is that nothing of any signifigance happens to him though.

by onlinesavant 2008-12-16 12:20PM | 0 recs


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