Open Thread

What's going on tonight?

Tags: Open Thread (all tags)



Re: Open Thread

I think its really something how people here are lauding Colin Powell as if he were a God despite the fact he sold our way to war, while many still loath Hillary for voting on the info people like Powell gave her.

by Lakrosse 2008-10-19 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

I'm guessing it may have something to do with the difference in age groups here, those who experienced Powell as a significant public personality pre-Bush as adult voters probably have a bit more patience with him.  I'm in that category.  He has a long and notable history in US affairs.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-19 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Snore... oh this again.  He was mislead just like the rest of us.  

And from a purely political POV, He also happens to have some of the highest favorables of public political figures.  The only people to turn down or not want this endorsement are stupid people who do not understand politics, understand HOW to win an election or really have much of an understanding of the world in general.

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-19 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

what a ridiculous thing to say.. no one is "lauding him as he were god" but simply stating that his endorsement today is politically advantageous to obama

i think its ridiculous the way people want to argue about something as obvious and true as this..

this is NOT about whether powell is a good man..its about OBAMA GETTING ELECTED PRESIDENT.

by obama4presidente 2008-10-19 08:14PM | 0 recs
Many? Who are you talking about?

I did not support Senator Clinton in the primaries and her vote for the war was the number one reason why I did not support her.  That is not loathing.  If she were the nominee, I'd be backing her all the way.

Why are you, two weeks in front of the general election of a lifetime, trying to stir up shit from the primaries?  What are your goals in this?

by James Earl 2008-10-19 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

I never loathed Hillary for her vote, I thought it was a plus for Obama that he was right about it. I'm not speaking for everyone, just myself, but that's where I'm coming from.

And even with that in mind, I'm not lauding Powell as a god, I'm saying that his public perception is as a very respected icon, which makes his endorsement worthwhile and valuable. Or maybe not. Polling released soon from Zogby, which is highly tilted towards conservatives, will give us our answer.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Booyah! Told y'all motherfuckers! Obama went from 3 point lead to 5.5 and got the highest numbers ever. Where did the gains come from? Good question. He saw a jump in independent voters and men. Guess who a Colin Powell endorsement would theoretically appeal to?

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread


by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-19 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Along with the unexpected fund-raising result it must send a shudder through the already beleaguered staff of McCain's campaign.  Some great battles are won in the minds of the enemy before a shot is fired.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-19 10:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Oh, indeed. They can't afford another loss of momentum. This last push threw in the kitchen sink, reducing McCain to the exact same stump speech everywhere he goes. Their media appearances are mostly done. Their message is set. They wanted to see independents start to split in half.

Iff these results are corroborated in the other polls, we might see McCain either resigned to a loss or relentlessly on the attack. I'm sure they'll be pissed about that NYT article. Of course, even bringing that article up makes the day's question "Is McCain healthy?" and that is something they REALLY don't want to talk about.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

No, and there is the 'other' Troopergate testimony to go yet.  The 'Joe the plumber' thing was a dud, even an embarrassment, and the 'socialist' attacks are tin-eared and silly and merely give Obama endless opportunities to explain how much better off most Americans will be with him as president.  I can see little on the horizon which the McCain campaign staff might be looking forward to with any genuine enthusiasm, certainly not the polling or the 'how does it feel to be losers' narrative emerging in the media.

I have noticed a tendency of his uberambitious running mate to distance herself from this train wreck and that isn't likely to change any time soon.  And McCain is just going to get testier and wearier with each incoherent, erratic passing day.  And the right-wing punditry is ravenously attacking him, her and each other with desperate frenzy while Bushies look on despondently from a lonely, irrelevant White House.  Sigh.  I never realised watching the self-destruction of the Republican party was going to be so much fun.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-19 10:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

What I love about Palin is that she is completely oblivious to how badly she is being perceived. She honestly thinks she has fooled people into thinking she's not running a dirty campaign or that she isn't completely ignorant about anything of importance. She seems to have no clue that the GOP leaders will sabotage her at every turn after this campaign is over, starting in Alaska, when they give the state legislature the goahead to take their revenge.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Yeah, it gets a bit complicated.  And she does make Huckabee look like Adlai Stevenson.  But my guess is that the Republican party core now consists of little more than Black Helicopter militias, unreconstructed segregationists and End of Days evangelicals.  She fits them like a glove, in fact she may be a shade too classy, all things considered.  We'll see, but given the flight of intellectuals from the GOP I'm guessing the kids are going to be running the candy store for awhile.  Fox News led them into the wilderness, let's see who survives.  It's a bit like 'Lost.'

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-19 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Ugh, don't call her classy. You can genuinely tell she likes inciting an angry mob. She gets off on the power. Tell me, is there anyone here who can't picture her stepping into the role of someone like Joseph Stalin?

by vcalzone 2008-10-20 12:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

OK, before I break Godwin's law, let me say that I only mean that she doesn't seem to have the restraint necessary for leaders to avoid the temptations that come with great power. I don't mean she has the heart of a murderer, much less a genocidal monster.

by vcalzone 2008-10-20 12:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

I was being sarcastic.  And the comparison which always springs to my mind may be lost on some Stateside readers but she is almost a carbon copy of the Antipodean xenophobe Pauline Hanson, whose toxicity still permeates certain dark corners of the Australian electorate.  No, I don't underestimate the damage which can be caused by a public figure providing public legitimacy for ignorant and racist attitudes, it can take decades to disinfect.

But as I've said before, she's the Republicans' problem now, their very own Bride of Frankenstein, I'm guessing that after this we won't have to deal with her again until she's wreaked havoc on their party for a cycle or two.  If they had any sense they would get rid of her through some political coup de main, soon and ruthlessly.  But I don't think they are that smart or well organised at the moment.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-20 01:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

I defy you to find a thread where people are talking about either loathing Clinton or lauding Powell as a God.  Your entire statement is BS.

by GFORD 2008-10-20 06:10AM | 0 recs
Dissension must be brewing between

Palin and McCain; she just threw him under the bus regarding the very robocalls that McCain defended this morning.

"The Alaska governor said if she ran the campaign she would meet with more Americans about the economy and the war in Iraq and not rely on 'old conventional ways of campaigning that includes those robocalls and includes spending so much money on the television ads that I think is kinda draining out there in terms of Americans' attention span, they get a bit irritated with just being inundated, and you're seeing a lot of that of course with the huge amounts of money that Barack Obama is able to spend on his ads and his robocalls also.'"

by Blazers Edge 2008-10-19 08:11PM | 0 recs
We can deduce that McCain

is the one who loves talking about Ayers while she would rather be talking about Wright and ACORN.  I guess McCain is hesistant to talk about Wright and ACORN b/c of the race undertones but is more comftorable with Ayers because of the Vietnam connection.  It'll be interesting to see where this leads...

by Blazers Edge 2008-10-19 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: We can deduce that McCain

I don't think McCain likes any of it. The more I see, the more I think he really is the guy that most thought he was, he just ran a horrific campaign. Don't get me wrong, his complicity makes him guilty as shit. But I think he sees the dirty stuff as "beneath him". He really does buy his own "maverick" schtick.

by vcalzone 2008-10-20 01:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Dissension must be brewing between

What is striking is how bad she is at hiding her ambitions. She will be easy pickings when she doesn't have the full weight of the Republican party backing her up. If she actually makes it through her term as governor without being impeached over Troopergate.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

This from the Las Vegas Review Journal:

"Democrats outnumbered Republicans at the polls in Clark County by a margin of nearly three to one on the first day of early voting, according to the county Election Department.

Of the 25,110 first-day voters Saturday, 15,644, or 62 percent, were registered Democrats, while just 5,721, 23 percent, were Republicans. The rest were nonpartisans or third-party members."

Usually Dems need a big turn out in Clark County to overpower the Republican rural voters in NV.

by werd2406 2008-10-19 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

I went back to some Retro Childhood Goodness and bought an Original Snoopy Sno-Cone Machine, just like I had when I was 5 years old.  Some company is remaking them and selling them.  

Let me just say, still a pain in the ass to make, but man thats some fantastic Sno Cone retro goodness.

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-19 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

My main takeaway: we are now 15 days away from voting...

tick tock tick tock...

by obama4presidente 2008-10-19 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Not all of us laud him as a God, nor loath Hillary for her vote.  I think they were cut from the same cloth, on different sides of the coin so to speak, and both got bamboozled into thier support for a VERY bad war.

Let's just get this absolutely right...there are those who felt pressured to support out of public pressure (right or wrong), those who thought they had the facts and that power would be used responsably, those who knew the truth and enjoyed the "show", and ONE who made the final decision.  Bad judgement and subterfuge abound, but there is ONE person who made the call and who is responsable for MAKING that call.  Period.  And that person is NOT Powell.  

Powell made a BAD call, and he has apologized for it somewhat.  I have noticed that NONE of the other big players in the orchestration has EVER wavered over their feelings of/for the war...not Condi, not Rummy, CERTAINLY not Dick, and never, ever King George.  If that isn't a SCREAMING endorsement of his deep-down decency, I just cannot imagine what is.

I know a lot of more-liberal leaning people would prefer that he vociferously tore into the Bush Admin.  That he adimantly ripped into the republican party, painted McCain as the Devil and Palin as Jezebel, and declared that the military should only EVER trust Democrats.  And once the fever dream has passed, lets talk reality...

Powell represents the best of the right, who are good, honest Americans we can have a discussion with, who we can debate, and who are just like us but a bit more conservative.  They have been lead astray by Neocons and their extreemist ilk.  Now they have a chance to get back to what makes them MODERATE.

And think of this...they will have Pres. Obama to thank for "helping" them gain control of their party again.

by Hammer1001 2008-10-19 08:24PM | 0 recs
Not political, I know...

but go Rays!!

by auboy2006 2008-10-19 08:35PM | 0 recs
I'll tell you what's goin' on...

The Evil Empire II just got vanguished by the mighty underdog Tampa Bay Rays!

And this is a good thing, because...

In 2004, when those damn Red Sox came out of nowhere and demolished my Cardinals, I knew we were going to lose the election.  I just knew it.  It was 7 days of pure hell for me... my team (with the best record in baseball that year, 105-57) gets absolutely annhilated in their first World Series in 17 years, and about ten days later my candidate lost the election.

As I sat their gleefully watching this year's ALCS Game 5 just knowing that the Red Sox were about to get sent packing when they were down 7-0 with only 7 outs to go, I watched in horror as they did the unthinkable and came out of nowhere - AGAIN - to begin the usual comeback.  I got that sick feeling in my gut... I just knew the damn Red Sox were gonna pull off the impossible - AGAIN - and be crowned WS Champs in the next week and a half.

But it didn't happen.

And that's why I know that Barack Obama will be the 44th President of the United States.

Congrats, Rays!!!

The end.

by Obamaphile 2008-10-19 08:51PM | 0 recs
Ummm... When can I go back to Wasilla?

Palin can see the writing on the wall. 8/10/19/palin-says-voters-irritated-by-r obocalls/#more-25523

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-19 10:04PM | 0 recs
by thezzyzx 2008-10-19 10:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Has anyone else noticed.....

I welcome bringing race into the discussion, because Obama warned about it for months and got hammered. John Lewis talked about it and got smacked down. Colin Powell discussed it just yesterday. Bring race into it, because it means the media will completely turn against them. When Pat Buchanan said something about it, Matthews laughed at him, looked kinda disgusted and said that he didn't think it was "tribal" like Buchanan suggested.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Has anyone else noticed.....

Again, bring it on. Let's let the ouroboros finish its job.

by vcalzone 2008-10-19 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Has anyone else noticed.....

I am actually a little concerned about what may happen after the election.  On C-SPAN the day after the last debate, I heard a female caller from some Deep South state ask why Obama hadn't been questioned about Ayers or ACORN (which, of course, he just had).  Less disturbing than the utter ignorance of the debate was her final statement, paraphrased:  If Obama wins the election, those of us here will get together and we will not stand for it.

If that isn't a threat of violence, I don't know what is.  I think that if Obama wins, there is going to be some kind of violence, whether it's riots or school/mall/church shootings.  It could be really bad or it could be just a minor blip.  But I don't expect the next 4 years to be all lollipops and rainbows.

by ProgressiveDL 2008-10-20 02:36AM | 0 recs
Oh, they will do that.

They always do that.  I'll never forget the first time I noticed it was 1992 after Bill Clinton was elected.  He hadn't been in the WH a week when I started hearing "So where's all this change he promised us?"

Same in 2006 when the Congress switched hands -- only that time it started before January.  And then ever since, the Senate Republicans have been blocking all legislation (including their own) so they could say that the Dems aren't accomplishing anything.  What a bunch of punks the Republicans are.

by GFORD 2008-10-20 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

Also, I saw Bill Clinton today in Vegas.

A pretty nice size crowd showed up for something that wasn't really advertised till about a DAY before he showed up.

Also, about people criticizing "concern trolls", yes im sure some of them are just tolling but also many of them probably do want to see an Obama victory, but have been let down twice hence their concern "trolling"....anyway, I just say let them be concerned and then after the election, should Obama hopefully win, and they STILL are criticizing everything he does, then we know their a troll.

by werd2406 2008-10-19 11:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

What's going on?  Personally, I'm surprised more people aren't asking how long the Obama campaign has had this endorsement up their sleeves, given how good the timing is here.  

Also, people here seem to be under the impression that I'm engels.  I have no idea why.

by Jess81 2008-10-20 02:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Open Thread

What does your sig line mean?

by GFORD 2008-10-20 06:16AM | 0 recs


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