Barack Obama Speech Thread

A little late in coming, but feel free to use this as a thread to discuss Senator Obama's speech.

Tags: Barack Obama, Iowa Caucuses (all tags)

Comments

131 Comments

Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

No mention of other candidates.  Not very gracious.  But very pulpit and preachy.  Like he's doing a sermon from the Mount.

by jgarcia 2008-01-03 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Give it a rest.

by desmoulins 2008-01-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Not mentioning other candidates

Neither Edwards (my guy) or Clinton congratulated him on his victory.

by filby 2008-01-03 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Not mentioning other candidates

I thought Hillary did.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Not mentioning other candidates

Yeah clinton did. Very gracious.

Edwards didn't say a word about anybody.

Obama doesn't need to congratulate people for losing...that would be awkward...

by mcdave 2008-01-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

SNarky and clueless.

BC

by billcoop4 2008-01-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Is your post a true reflection of your reaction, or just a bit of sour grapes?

I believe you just witnessed one of the finest speeches in recent political history, and this is what you come up with?  Amazing!

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

rolls eyes

I am not caught up in the hype like you obviously are, upper left.  I am not an Obama fangurl.

btw, now that Edwards is toast, I am glad Obama beat the DLC Hillary.  But this Obama worship does no one any good.

by jgarcia 2008-01-04 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

The man is a truly gifted speaker. Period.

by fugazi 2008-01-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Excellent so far. Hits all the high points of his stump speech.

And his anti-Iraq war rhetoric is always a winner.

by Kal 2008-01-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Speech aside, whats impressive to me is that Obama did exactly what they said they would do. They won it on the ground, by expanding the universe. Thats really hard to do.

I suspect he has won the nomination.

by desmoulins 2008-01-03 06:15PM | 0 recs
expanding the universe

I agree, I was floored by the increase in turnout. My precinct went from 175 four years ago to 293 tonight. No one from any of the campaigns was expecting anything that big.

Edwards did very well considering that the pundits all said he could only get the old-timers. Clearly he pulled a lot of new caucus-goers as well, but Obama drew in more.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-03 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: expanding the universe

What impressed me was that Obama still beat Hillary among Democrats, albeit by 1%.  But given that it was always thought Hillary was stronger among Dems, this impressed me most.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

You nailed it.  He did exactly what he said he was going to do and did it all in right before our eyes.  I second your prediction of his nomination.  Frankly, I expected it of him.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

i truly can't believe it. all i have been thinking about lately is that the youth vote is pathetically unreliable. he actually brought it. i am so excited about progressivism, the youth (me), and the prospects of actually having my ideological opinions on the table.

and as cliche as it is (considering the racially reductionist talk of CNN) it truly is a great sign for america that a man with the cultural and racial background of Mr. Barack Hussain Obama won a significant victory in rural iowa.

i saw clips of suburban middle aged white women in Iowa saying "ahem" to Obama's rallies in the past week.

and in his victory speech we saw him invoke the struggles of the civil right movement (to raucous applause) as an EXAMPLE for the struggle of the middle class in america.

is anyone else psyched that white kids truly see the civil rights movement as an inspiration?

by leewesley 2008-01-03 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I noted him tying in the civil rights movement to his victory and my thought was he was at last leveraging the forfeit Democrats have paid since 1964 electorally in spite of our proud values.  Maybe it is time we gain some long-term benefit from that excellent investment.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Was that "ahem" or "amen"? :)

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

the latter

by leewesley 2008-01-03 08:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

On another note...

Obama could be up there reading Go Dog Go, and I'd still be sold. DAMN! He gives an excellent speech!

Now I remember why, after his 2004 speech at the DNC, I said "That man's going to be President some day."

by Kal 2008-01-03 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

LOL!!!:)

by mcdave 2008-01-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Barack delivers! And a marvelous speech.

by cmpnwtr 2008-01-03 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Wow - he is on fire. Obama may win more than a few converts tonight.

by animated 2008-01-03 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

That, folks, is what a President looks like.

by Piuma 2008-01-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Not our current President...

by joc 2008-01-03 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Fantastic again, but what else was to be expected?

by Jim Engler 2008-01-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Obama is certainly an incredible speaker.

I was a little taken aback when he called tonight "a defining moment in history."  Wow, I know he's entitled to some poetic license, but that's a bit much.

All the talk of bipartisanship leaves me cold, it really does.  Even after winning a Democratic primary, not one word about what the Democratic Party stands for.  I really don't want a nominee who has nothing good to say about the party, I'm sorry if this offends anyone.

He could certainly win the general election though.  Don't kid yourself about that.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Another Lieberman speech. I don't understand why he runs from the party.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-03 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Lieberman speech...?  Hey I got a question for you...What planet do you live on? ...seriously.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-01-03 07:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

As long as it's all about him, everything is good. Postpartisan is a load of crap. We've already got 50% or better on our side. As long as it's all about him it's not about party building when Obama loses or leaves the WH then the people leave the party right? Since it's all about him.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-03 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Can you explain your latest bit of snark?

How is this a "Lieberman" speech.

You and your fellow hyper-partisans don't seem to understand that we are not going to acheive change with the existing Dem party.  In order to not just fight for change but to actually achieve it, we need to build a progressive majority.  We have to grow the party.  

That is what Obama is doing.  235,000 turnout, including 50,000 independents,most of whom will vote for Dem candidates for Congress in the fall.  Why is this so hard for you to understand?

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Not one word about the Democratic party and what it stands for. That's what I'm commenting on.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-03 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

He's not selling the party he's selling himself. And yes that might be enough to get himself elected but for what? He's not telling anyone why it's better to be a Democrat is he? It's a movement about him not about building the party is the way it's coming off.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-03 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

He is not selling himself, he is selling progressive values, American values.  

He does not sell the party because he understands that many who are not predisposed to like the party, will like the values.  This is how it is done, this is how you bring people to your point of view by emphasizing your common concerns rather than emphasizing your differences.  

You didn't respond to the substance of my post about the need to grow the party in order to achieve change.

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Is Libermann a new politicain?  None of us know who he is.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

"...including 50,000 independents,most of whom will vote for Dem candidates for Congress in the fall."

How can you be sure that most of them will vote for other Democrats? Isn't Obama telling them they need to act in a bipartisan manner?

by joc 2008-01-03 09:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

The idea of "coattails" is well established in political science.  Most indies who decide to support the top of the ticket of one party are inclined to support down ballot candidates of the same party.

Obama is standing up for Dem party values, he is just doing so in a way that is understandable and approachable to indies and disillusioned Repubs.

by upper left 2008-01-04 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

The idea of Haley's Comet is well established in science, too. However, if I were you I wouldn't go looking for it come November. Unlike Haley's Comet, though, political coattails are much less predictable.

So the question remains, how can you be sure most independent voters will support down ticket Democrats when Obama is telling them they should be bipartisan? You're arguing (actually you're not arguing you're restating your previous baseless fiat) that most of these voters will ignore Obama's pleas for bipartisanship while at the same time paying heed to his call for their votes.

Doesn't your brain hurt even just a little when you write such things?

by joc 2008-01-04 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Why is it so difficult to have a reasoned discussion around here? Less attitude would be appreciated.

Obama isn't suggesting that Republican values and policies are equal to Democratic values and policies. He is a Democrat, believes in Dem values, and has a largely progressive voting record.

He is simply stating a couple of truths:

1) assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is an a**hole emphasizes division and encourages obstructionism and "gotcha" games;

2) "ideological purity" is frequently an enemy of finding constructive solutions to real public policy problems.  Neither party has an absolute monopoly on truth;

3) listening to people who have different points of view and trying to find areas of common ground is a public good.

Obama is also using the Unity theme as a tactic; as a way to help diffuse the race issue, and as a way to get moderates to listen to him.

I own four houses (I own a small home renovation business).  I would be willing to bet all four that a majority of those indies who vote for Obama will break for down-ballot Dems.

I suspect you are trying to make a rhetorical point.  I am trying to make a practical, real world point about how to build the Dem majority in Congress.

the truth that we need to identify areas of common understanding

by upper left 2008-01-05 06:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I love the fact that he is running exactly the campaign he will run in the GE.  There is nothing he needs to change.

by Piuma 2008-01-03 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Yeah, he won't talk about anything of substance then, either.

by lorax 2008-01-03 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Bitter much?

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I have no doubt he can win the GE running this sort of campaign.  People eat up that bipartisanship stuff, especially the younger, more idealistic voters who are his base.  My objection is solely that I don't think it's good for the progressive movement as a whole.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

As you know, many of us consider post-partisan a more descriptive term of what he's about. But shift your focus for a second and look at the mobilization of the youth vote into a democratic base and the training in grassroots politics his campaign offers.  He is delivering them.  Let the progressive movement embrace them, rather than belittle and insult them as some, not you, have done and we will see a transformation of the Party and the Country.

by Piuma 2008-01-03 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'm very excited about all the new people we brought out tonight.  Interestingly, both Obama and Clinton claimed their share of the new voters.  I have to think this is where Edwards' lack of funding really hurt him.

What I feel like, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong, is that we're missing the opportunity to sell these new voters on the Democratic Party and its values, as opposed to just selling them on Barack Obama.  I mean, in all seriousness, Hillary did more to argue that Obama's victory was significant for the Democratic Party than Obama himself did.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

you know what's good for the progressive movement as a whole?  220,000 people showing up for the iowa caucuses.  22% of them were young folks.  they voted overwhelmingly for obama.  that is good for the progressive movement as a whole.

by the mollusk 2008-01-03 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

But one thing will change. Just like Kerry...if he gets to the GE he'll lose.

And having heard him in person, at Oakland where he was 'reported' to have given a 'great' speech, I disagree about that. MLK was a great speaker. JFK was a great speaker. FDR was a great speaker.

Obama knows all the techniques and he uses them well but....

He never delivers the a real message of change.

Somebody's gonna try and stop you.

JFK did that, Lincoln did that, MLK did that. The were straight from the shoulder about it.

That never appears in his speeches. I get the feeling he doesn't like the idea of conflict. Well, who does. But when you are campaigning on 'change' you are going to have some. To think otherwise is delusional.

His avoidance of the issue is dishonest and keeps his speeches fairly mundane on the level I'm talking about.

'Great speeches' are rare.

by Pericles 2008-01-03 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Yeah but you are are definately in the minority in your opinion.  His speech tonight was amazing, his speeech at the convention is amazing and there are a few others.  These speeches rank up there with some of the greats.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Iowa electing a Black Man is a defining moment

by CardBoard 2008-01-03 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Wow! You are incredibly out of line.  This is one of the most racist and offensive posts I have ever seen here at MyDD.

You wrote, "What do you black men want from ordinary americans?"  

Since when are AAs not "ordinary americans?"  Put away your white sheet and join the human race. You owe an immediate apology to this community or you should go away and never come back.

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'm starting to sense a common vibe among the folks who are announcing tonight that they would never vote for Obama in the GE.  I wonder if others are on the same wavelength as me here.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

One doubts we ever had their votes to begin with, for example?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

That is not at all what I mean.  In fact, I suspect they would vote for pretty much any other Democrat.  There's that certain quality that sets Obama apart, apparently.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Ah, I see.  Let us speak no more of it.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Thank you!  I don't like to throw around words like racist, but i grew up in the deep south and my sensors have been going off like crazy...

by bluedavid 2008-01-03 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I see, black men are not ordinary Americans.

Take a break for a while, gladiatorstail. Drink some lemonade. For all of us.

by Korha 2008-01-03 07:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

As a Democrat and an American, I am deeply ashamed of you.

We are the party of FDR and JFK.  We are the party of the people.  We do not exclude others based on where they come from, how much they make, or what they look like.  We represent all people who believe in fairness, equality, and the promise of the Constitution.  

If you're looking for a party based on the ideals of elitism, I believe you have us confused with those guys across the aisle...  

by bluedavid 2008-01-03 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I am not offended by what you said.  I disagree with you, but that's cool.  You said it nicely and politely and THAT I respect.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

You are always thoughtful, even when i don't agree with you.  Not sure I've ever said that, but wanted to now especially given some of the angry comments being made tonight.  

I would add, however, that it probably is fair to characterize a black man named Barrack Obama winning Iowa as a defining moment.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-03 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

If you look at the speech as a whole, though, he clearly meant that it was a defining moment in terms of "someday we'll look back and see this as the night that propelled Barack Obama to the Presidency."  Obviously I understand that he needs to seize the momentum and, actually, he's sort of talking a little of the language of inevitability here.  I just thought the statement was a little over the top somehow.

I don't question, at all, that even if Obama never wins another primary that this was a historic event in the sense you mention.  I don't recall Jesse Jackson winning any primaries in states comparable to Iowa.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Jesse Jackson was the real deal. A guy who risked his life to knock down the doors Ol' Barrack assumes were always open.

That made Jesse far too scary to win. You'd do well to read some history before proving Mark Twain's point pal.

Obama is a pygmy compared to Jackson and Sharpton too for that matter.

by Pericles 2008-01-03 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'm not sure why you're being so hostile.  I'm not Bill Bennett, I don't disrespect Jesse Jackson in the slightest.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Jesse Jackson won Michigan. That's larger than Iowa. Of course,  having Iowa go first makes Iowa delegates kind of like the EMILY acronym - Iowa is far more important than the number of delegates it has.

by X Stryker 2008-01-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Yes, but Michigan has a much larger African-American constituency.  As I explained, I really don't think Obama meant tonight was historic because it was a black guy winning a super-white state, but there's still some truth to that.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Point taken.  To the extent it was hyperbole, I suppose I'm willing to excuse it given the context.  I have to think the guy had a bit of adreneline at that particular moment.  :)  It's not every day you win the Iowa Caucuses.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-03 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I am not offended, I am puzzled by your apparent inability to see that Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do:  he is building a movement for progressive change.  

We can't get there with the existing Demo Party. We need to grow the party, that is exactly what Obama is doing.  The fact that you, and so many other progressives, do not see this as a positive is astounding to me.

Climb on board the change train!

by upper left 2008-01-03 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'm really not up for explaining myself on this point again.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I've never felt his speeches

He doesn't always bring his A game.  This was one of the good ones.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Wow, amazing speech.

by Socks The Cat 2008-01-03 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Great Speech.
He's going all the way.

FIRED UP!! READY TO GO!!!

by ArkansasLib 2008-01-03 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Great speech.  I retract my previous statement about we being screwed.  But as a wise man once said, it ain't over til it's over.

I look forward to a productive primary.

BTW, I don't care if Edwards/Obama didn't thank everyone.  I find it irritating when politicians thank everyone, despite the fact that they obviously didn't mean it.

by Sean Fitzpatrick 2008-01-03 06:27PM | 0 recs
Would have preferred contemporaneous...

and not something prepared and teleprompted.

by citizen53 2008-01-03 06:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Would have preferred contemporaneous...

extemporaneous?

by js noble 2008-01-03 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Would have preferred contemporaneous...

Nobody can do an extemp speech for these anymore.  Dean dids a great job with his in 2004 and the media picked out one second of it, altered by that directional microphone, amplified it, and crashed Dean's entire campaign with it.

Nobody with a competent campaign will ever give an unscripted post-Iowa speech ever again.

by Brian Watkins 2008-01-03 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Can somebody explain what Fineman was talking about when he said Obama's precinct captains had beads around their neck to count delegates?

by desmoulins 2008-01-03 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Probably a way to keep an accurate count... like a human abacus.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-03 06:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Wow that was a great speech , great oratory.

Congratulations to Obama and his supporters , he won  fair and square.

This was an incredible victory for Obama and the speech would go down as one of the best speeches in a long time.

Obama would be hard to stop now , I don't see how she stops him.

Great turnout too , so lets just induct Ann to the hall of fame.

The whole dynamic of the campaign has changed Obama is making a clarion call for unity of all stripes , races , parties etc , clinton is doing the opposite.

That call for unity is a perfect fit for New Hampshire.

I'll go out on the limb and say Obama would win New Hampshire.

by lori 2008-01-03 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Thanks for a gracious post.  I know we have crossed swords in the past. I hope we will be on the same side once and awhile.

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

you are so fair in your assessments....

by rapcetera 2008-01-03 07:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Seriously - a lot of people owe Ann Selzer an apology!

by X Stryker 2008-01-03 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Thanks for that, lori.  Very gracious.

by the mollusk 2008-01-03 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'll simply add my voice to the list of folks noting that, as usual, you are quite fair and gracious in your analysis.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-03 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Wow, that was a stretch for a few moments but he not only homered he knocked the cover off the ball.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

A very good speech. I think I'll always be annoyed by the bipartisanship bs- but the whole event was so moving I could get past it. Worth noting: He had my boomer mother in tears.

by js noble 2008-01-03 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

236,000, folks, according to MSNBC.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Hey congratulations your man won decisvely.

by lori 2008-01-03 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Thank you, you are gracious and well spoken.  Hope to have you as an enthusiastic supporter some day, but for now it's off to NH, eh?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Yep , I am fine with an obama win . If my first choice can't get it then my second choice is fine.

I am young and idealist as well so I really don't have any problem with Obama at all.

Aside from the bickering here and there for your candidate , I am confident democrats would be behind the nominee all the way.

He won decisively in Iowa , no one should minimize the impact of what Obama did today .

He brought out independents , democrats , republicans , young voters , women in record numbers to vote for him , and he beat her fair and square.

He is going to be tough to beat.

Lets just look at what he did  , his message cut across all races , gender , ages and party. He would be a great general election candidate if he can turn this into a new coalition in the general.  

by lori 2008-01-03 07:38PM | 0 recs
Both victory speeches

I know we're concentrating only on Dems here, but from looking at the speeches for their oratorical qualities, Huckabee also gave an absolutely amazing speech.

Now back to Obama - that speech was scintillating. The BEST part about it was its simple honesty - especially where he mentioned that the strategy and message NEVER waivered, whether they were up or down in the polls. Amazing. I hope the people in NH were listening.

by highgrade 2008-01-03 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Howard Fineman: Let's face it, the man is a phenomenon.

by Piuma 2008-01-03 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

The most important thing i got from this speech:

There is no shame in hope.  That is what our country is built on.

by bluedavid 2008-01-03 06:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Phenomenal speech.

Totally blown away.

by dmc2 2008-01-03 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

He had half the country in tears with that speech. Jesus, the entire MSNBC panel was redeye after it.

by mattmfm 2008-01-03 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I'm so happy, I don't even know what he said.

Onto New Hampshire!! :)

by rikyrah 2008-01-03 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

He's growing the party and making the progressive movement enticing (or at least palatable) for a clear majority of Americans.  Don't underestimate the impact of the "I will listen to you even when we disagree" line.  That kind of basic fairness and decency is REALLY appealing to alot of people.

He's just not doing it the way Kos or Jerome want him to.  I'm more interested in RESULTS than tactics.  Barack Obama can really deliver for our party, our movement, and most importantly - our country.  He showed that tonight.

by NC State Dem 2008-01-03 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

The speech wasn't bad, but honestly this is still to me Clinton 1992 all over again. Even with the younger voters part. It's easy to be inspired with hope when you don't have much political life experience under your belt like a young voter might. My impression is that the same danger lies for Obama that lied for Clinton. I can only hope (no pun intended) he understands this. My fear is that he does not.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

What I learned from Clinton 1992 and the aftermath is that Clinton grew far too addicted to winning plaudits from the media, from the economic experts from everyone except the folks who got him elected.  This is what I fear for Obama - if the media cheers him every time he runs against Democratic orthodoxy, I still need for him to stop at some point.  I think his heart is in the right place, but what the media wants from him is not what progressives want from him.

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

That's about it in nutshell for me. The irony is that I am a moderate if someone really tested me across the spectrum of issues. BUT- this isn't about that for me. I am skewing of an age that allows me to remember what happened with Clinton and his presidency. That informs my judgement about what Obama is saying and the flaws in the nature of the support for him. So, yes the core issue exactly as you describe- I've asked this question- if Obama is truly post partisan then why is every frame on issues he's given lately so much in accord with the exact same framing to the right that we've known for 15 years now. The excuse I get is that he is usurping their language, and will change it's meaning. Ie, when he talks SS crisis- he doesn't mean it as the GOP does. All I can think- but don't you get it? That's exactly what Clinton thought too. He was wrong. As I said- its easy to be inspired with hope if you are young and inexperience with actually having to live through these things. I was a fervent Clinton supporter throughout much of 1990s. They associate what happens merely with the Clinton- I associate it with not fully appreciating what needed to be done. Hope gets you through the hard times, but it ain't what you build things on.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

See, we agree on a lot, even though you're a huge pain in my you-know-what!

by Steve M 2008-01-03 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

After 2004, I learned what I believe in and support and why. Some of this is my trying to decide whether I even want to stay interested in politics. I spent the last few years chatting on blogs, but other than donating I am becoming disillusioned more with the American people than our candidates. I'm also pursuing a second career that keeps me up late writing so my time to stay focused on politics is dwindling. In a way, this maybe the last election that I pay attention to.  Regardless of whom one supports we should expect more from them. A lot more. But not many seem to grasp what this means. A lot don't expect much other than how the politician  makes them feel. As I said- I am actually more moderate than Edwards- it wasn't how he made me feel on every issues that defined my support. Obama is my second choice. It's not strictly his views on issues that makes him my second rather tahn first choice. It's the centralizing questions that I have about in which direction are the American voters going? Will they continue to choose the easy route of feel good ism or will they make harder choices. I am becoming more convinced feel goodism is winning the day. I don't blame Obama for that. He's not a bad candidate-. I just think his supporters should hold his feet to the fire. I just am suspicious that they won't.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I like to think of him as a Clinton with a lot more self-control.  I'm not convinced he's the one to usher in a new era of leftist policies.  BUt look, if Clinton had controlled himself it is quite likely that we'd be looking at the eighth year of a Gore presidency and this country would be decades ahead of where it is now.

I know Clinton made some questionable deals w/ the devil.  But, he left office with >60% approval ratings and set us on an incredibly good path.

by the mollusk 2008-01-03 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

agree- gore screwed up his own race. every candidate is responsible for his or her own fortune.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I had the same thought too. Though I think while Clinton stressed the same theme of idealism, what he meant by it was different. Clinton was all about "putting people first" and pushed forward a philosophy and vision of government. Obama pushes forward post-partisanship, but it's not clear what that means quite yet.

Put another way, Clinton got in trouble when he tried to push universal health care over Republicans. Obama, 16 years later, may not have the same problem--because he won't push for universal health care.

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I seem to recall you drawing previous parallels between Obama '08 and BC '92.  Beyond a few superficial similarities, the differences are striking:

BC was the Governor of a small, poor, socially backward, southern state.  He was the leader of the DLC, for God's sake. Clinton was a clear centrist who brought us triangulation and Sista Souljah moments.

By contrast, Obama is a northern, urban, progressive.  He has consistently made life choices that demonstrate his commitment to progressive values and progressive change.  You may not agree with his strategy for growing the party and building a majority for change, but I believe it is disengenuous for you and others to deny his basic commitments.

by upper left 2008-01-03 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I guess I don't see it the same way you do.

First, I'm not sure what that description of Arkansas has to do with the argument.

Second, what makes you so convinced that Obama will enact real liberal policies? It's one thing to amass a liberal voting record on the items that come up for votes. It's quite another when you're president. Obama is campaigning against health care mandates. He's called labor unions "special interests". He sponsored a coal-to-liquids bill. His speeches don't mention any particular proposal that is markedly more ambitious than anything Edwards or Clinton propose. He's a fine Democrat and a generally reliable liberal vote in the Senate. But given the White House, what makes us think he'll go father? I'd like to see some evidence that he will. But so far, I don't see it. His health care plan is weaker than what Bill Clinton proposed 14 years ago.

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Your entire list is, IMHO, a collection of nit-picks:

1) Individual mandates are a political loser that give the Repubs and the opponents of UHC an enormous wedge to splinter public support for reform.  Mandates are also questionable from a policy standpoint: coercive, difficult to enforce, significant non-compliance rates, etc. I would much prefer broader public coverage supported by broad based taxes.  Mandates are seen by many as a sop to the insurance industry.  If you want to know how this works with voters, ask people their opinion about mandated car insurance, you will get an ear full.

2) Unlimited contributuions to 527s are just plain bad, whether they come from unions or not.  Do you want to defend 527s? Obama has the most consistent record for fighting for ethics and campaign finance reform.

3)Coal to liquids:  Obama did support a bill, but said his support was conditional upon carbon sequestration that would make the process a net gain over other methods of generating power.  When the final bill did not include strong enough language on sequestration, he voted against it.  This does not strike me as a mortal sin.

I could go on, but it is getting late.  

Bottom Line:  Like Obama, I worked as a community organizer in the 80s.  I think the work and the training that go with it has a profound impact on anyone who has the experience.  I believe I see those impacts in Obama's writing and in his rhetoric.  

I believe many on the left confuse being partisan with achieving progress.  I believe that Obama's unity language is primarily a strategy for growing a progressive majority for real change.  I may be wrong; I may end up disappointed; but, I think Obama is the real deal.

by upper left 2008-01-03 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Well, we'll have to disagree then. That's fine--that's the way it goes. Doesn't mean we can't respect each other's views.

Just because mandates can be demagogued doesn't mean they're not the right thing to do. (Tax increases and environmental controls are also easily demagogued, but we push them anyway.) Most independent experts seem to agree mandates are necessary to prevent free riding and to control costs. It certainly doesn't help when a Democratic campaign lays the groundwork for the inevitable Republican attack.

The campaign laws being what they are, outside groups are allowed to have influence. The way to counteract them is to refute their arguments. Whether or not 527s are good or evil, labor unions are NOT special interests.

The CTL stuff I can overlook. It was an Illinois senator doing his provincial duty. The Sierra Club certainly wasn't amused, though.

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 09:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Your response to my post is so mindnumbingly superficial I am not even sure what's the point of responding to you.  Clinton 1992 was very much about post partisan new hope (the man from hope if you are old enough to remember) highly enthusiastic younger voters (such as myself who had never really been through an election like that etc).  I am speaking to the broader themese, strategies, ideas, and constructions of politics,a nd you come back to me with biography? are you serious?

I will be blunt- Obama remains my number two choice (bet in your ignorance you didn't know that- but you can go back in my posts and see that I've been saying that since the summer). The reasons why he's number two are the concerns I explain here. THe concerns that his speech didn't alleviate. Concerns that he appeals the politically unware and easily detracted (as a lot of liberals were when Clinton governed as his style of poltitics forced him to govern) etc. Rather than responding to that- what do youd- act like a child trying to win a junior high school debate.

Let me cut to the chase. What you think of me personally is representative of your inability to understand that not everyone bases things on personality. I could careless what you think of me. This isn't about me. It's not about how you feel about me. It's not about you. Your response indicates you don't get that. It's about the arguments we are making and whether they represent a greater truth or not. PERIOD. Superficial indeed. Look in the mirror.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Take a chill pill! I put up a brief post saying that I think the parallels between BC and BO are superficial. I did not say that your post was superficial. You respond by trying to singe off my eyebrows. I did not post an in-depth analysis of my position, but my post was not personal.

I have been involved as an activist and political professional off and on since my first of four sessions as a staffer in my state legislature in 1977, straight out of high school.  I have lobbied in three states.  I have worked on health policy for over two decades, so yes, I do remenber 1992 very well.  I am not a naive enthusiast.

It is late and I am tired of arguing. I hope that we can have some more constructive conversations in the future.

I happily predict that Obama will win the White House and be the most progressive President since FDR.

by upper left 2008-01-03 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

What an incredibly rude post! Do you listen to yourself?!

by crackityjones 2008-01-03 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I am not really interestd in playing with you two. it's clear you are so busy being angry that you cant even get the points being made. And yeah i do read what I write before I write it. You might want to actually read it too.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread
It was an excellent speech, but, to me, emotionally detached.  I've heard most of those hopeful platitudes from him many times before.  Barack is my senator, and, though I'll be happy to vote for him if he is the nominee, he is not my progressive senator. That's Dick Durbin.  We all know what Dick believes; we're not so sure about Barack.
Frankly, I don't understand the Obama appeal. Maybe, at 40, I'm too old to get it.  There was a similar surge with young and independent voters in his Senate primary here.  He was the overwhelming choice of anti-war voters, but never showed up at an anti-war event and rarely mentioned Iraq in his Senate bid.
I think he won our Senate race because he's charismatic, attractive, and different (African American).  I think he won Iowa for those same reasons.  Those things seem kind of shallow to me.
by ChgoSteve 2008-01-03 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

yeah in response to my questions and concern above i get a quote by upper left about how obama's biography is different from clinton of 1992 (as if this is what this is about- biography). then again maybe it is. one of the reasons i am souring to politics (and ia m in my upper 30s ) is precisely because of this superficiality to political discourse in this country. can't we talk about these things without resorting to simple personality?

by bruh21 2008-01-03 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech

yeah in response to my questions and concern above i get a quote by upper left about how obama's biography is different from clinton of 1992 (as if this is what this is about- biography). then again maybe it is. one of the reasons i am souring to politics (and ia m in my upper 30s ) is precisely because of this superficiality to political discourse in this country. can't we talk about these things without resorting to simple personality?

by bruh21 2008-01-03 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech

you know it's funny that you're complaining about "biography" when it seems like a lot of your reservation about obama has to do with your own biography.  

The casual observer might notice that you alternate between complaining about BC's policies/tactics and talking about how you were a naive young voter swept up by his movement.  now that you're souring on politics, could you be projecting your reflectively ambivalent feelings about your first interest in politics onto a campaign that you see as very similar (lots of youth voters, hope-oriented, etc.)??

i could be totally wrong here...

by bluedavid 2008-01-03 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech

Look enjoy  your victory. Its good to be in the majority. But dont confuse your psycho babble with a response to my criticism. It's obvious in fact based on the three of you that responded that none of you have any. You just have emotion based response. I hope in fact I am wrong. None of your responses- upper left, your self or david  builds any confidence that I am. Its all personal shit rather than responding to the leadership question. Again, enjoy the victory, but you really didn't respond to my post such much as wasted time.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech

i feel like your rebuttals are a little overly-aggressive.  you know, i even highlighted the fact that i could be completely wrong.  of course, i don't know you & could be completely misreading what influences your opinions.  

i just know that sometimes it's the person sitting next to you that notices your shoes are untied...

if i'm wrong, just so say so.  but please don't attack me or talk about "psycho-babble".  it was an honest observation, and IMO didn't deserve such a snippy response.

by bluedavid 2008-01-03 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

It was a great speech, for sure. Almost a convention speech or even an inauguration speech rather than an Iowa caucus victory speech, but there's nothing wrong with that.

There was once a time this kind of speech would have worked with me. Who doesn't want to feel idealistic and hopeful about the country's future? At times it was grandiose and narcissistic--to identify your campaign above others as fulfilling the spirit of the American Revolution, or the civil rights era, but still inspiring. I don't have much doubt that this kind of message can win the Democratic nomination and the general election.

But it doesn't do it for me. I want to hear substance, not just gauzy words. What does change mean? It has to be more than just a word. I listen and listen and listen, and I still don't know what Obama means. What he says isn't any more ambitious--and frequently less so--than what Edwards or Clinton want. Considerably less ambitious than what Kucinich wants. So when Obama talks about cynics who said it couldn't be done, what does he mean? What couldn't be done? He keeps congratulating Iowa voters for taking this bold step, but I still don't know what was so bold or visionary. What are we hoping for, exactly? I want to know.

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

It was a good speech, I can't say great. Obama's rhetoric is soaring but what underlies it is "consider me as president: a post-partisan, bi-racial symbol to the world." I.e. narcissism. His only bold plan is how historic it would be to elect a black man, beyond that he proposes less than Clinton, and far less than Edwards.

I have a hard time believing that his appeal, an empty suit we can project our hopes onto, will withstand the tests of the Democratic primary. But who knows, maybe Democrats will behave like Republicans this time and pick the blank slate that party elites can control.
 

by souvarine 2008-01-03 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I guess I think it might work in an election, because a similar approach worked for the Worst President Ever in 2000.

No, I'm not comparing the two in any substantive way. But Bush, running a gauzy campaign filled with soaring rhetoric about compassionate conservatism and being a uniter, not a divider, did come within stealing distance of Gore, who ran on competence, experience, and lots of policy details. He never did have to beat Gore on the specifics.

In a Democratic year, I think Obama's approach could work. Charisma goes a long way.

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 07:50PM | 0 recs
Tired of "I want to hear substance"
Read Obama's books. Go to his website and read up on his policies and plans. Read or listen to his policy speeches. He is the most substantive candidate in the race.

Obama makes an emotional appeal in his stump speech and his main appearances because that's what works. He's completely true to his values and policies; he's just stressing the most effective part of himself as a candidate. That wins over most voters.

You're part of a weird intermediate group of voters: those who insist on substance over personality and oratory, yet are unwilling to look beyond the most prominent media appearances to find that substance. Obama doesn't do well with this crowd. Instead, he wins over two much larger groups: those who vote on character, and those who vote on substance and are willing to do their homework.
by Setec 2008-01-03 09:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Tired of "I want to hear substance"

Please be fair. You don't know me, so please don't insinuate things such as that I'm "unwilling to look beyond the most prominent media appearances to find that substance", or that I'm unwilling "to do my homework." Or that I'm "weird."

If you want to argue that Obama has proposed some far-reaching policies or ideas that are stronger and more visionary than Edwards or Clinton, tell me what they are. I think Obama is a fine mainstream moderate Democrat, but I don't see anything that merits the soaring rhetoric that he uses to compare his campaign to World War II or the civil rights movement. What I do see is a collection of decent but mild proposals that aren't going to really lead to deep fundamental change. To take a few examples:

Iraq - he gave an anti-war speech in 2002, but was much quieter about it afterwards and has voted the same way as Clinton in the Senate. His withdrawal plan is not as firm as Edwards'.

Health care - his health care plan is less ambitious than that of Edwards, Richardson, Clinton, and especially Kucinich. Worse, he defends it using a right-wing attack.

Gay rights - a truly bold Democratic candidate would support gay marriage openly and loudly. None of the top three do so.

What he does stress repeatedly is the idea of moving past partisanship and working with Republicans, a process that seems (to me) to guarantee lukewarm results. It's not that much a stretch for me to believe he means it, is it?

by OrangeFur 2008-01-03 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I have to admit that I have changed my mind about Obama based on the results (turnout etc.)  I think that there is a way to think about the bipartisan rhetoric that explains a lot.   Democrats of the Blogosphere (Crashing the Gates) feel that we have to stand up to the bullies of the Republicans and certainly just taking it is the wrong thing, however by constantly being angry and distrustful we alienate people who don't feel like they are being beaten up for being Democrats.  You can say they are deluded but they want to back someone who will bring them peace.  They know it's not the Republicans because their rhetoric and tone is always nasty and mean.  Obama's tone and rhetoric is positive and that is a huge attraction, both within and without the party.  Now if you are young all you remember is the vitupuration of the Republicans who effectively have the only voice these days.   I think that is his appeal and if he can continue it through the General, it will have an amazing effect.

by msobel 2008-01-03 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

I have to admit that I have changed my mind about Obama based on the results (turnout etc.)  I think that there is a way to think about his bipartisan rhetoric that explains a lot.   Democrats of the Blogosphere (Crashing the Gates) feel that we have to stand up to the bullies of the Republicans and certainly just taking it is the wrong thing, however by constantly being angry and distrustful we alienate people who don't feel like they are being beaten up for being Democrats.  You can say they are deluded but they want to back someone who will bring them peace.  They know it's not the Republicans because their rhetoric and tone is always nasty and mean.  Obama's tone and rhetoric are positive and that is a huge attraction, both within and without the party.  Now if you are young all you remember is the vitupuration of the Republicans who effectively have had the only voice for years.   I think that is his appeal and if he can continue it through the General, it will have an amazing effect.

by msobel 2008-01-03 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama Speech Thread

Best political speech I have seen in years possibly, and I'm one who had Obama third on my list. Of course this doesn't show how he'd deal with the GOP slime machine should he be the nominee, which would be my biggest concern regarding his electability. This isn't over, but after watching that speech I'm more comfortable supporting him should he be the nominee.

by Christopher Lib 2008-01-03 07:49PM | 0 recs
did you really expect

Obama to bust out the text of his proposed health care reform bill and read it as his victory speech?

by highgrade 2008-01-03 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: did you really expect

Health Care was one of the few substantive nuggets in his speech. He pointedly referred to affordability and availability, with no mention of universality. Soaring rhetoric, cautious proposals. Symbolic change but nothing that threatens any entrenched interest.

by souvarine 2008-01-03 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: did you really expect

I share your concerns about Obama, but I wonder if a politician like Obama is the only one who could actually accomplish progressive change. The fact is, even though most people agree with us on the issues, nearly half the Congress will be Republican, and we will not be able to pass legislation without some Republican support, especially when the corporate interests work as hard as they will to oppose change. The main stream of the Republican party will never compromise, but it might just be that an inspiring leader can peel off enough Republicans to actually get some of our good ideas enacted.

your friend
keith

by keith johnson 2008-01-03 08:29PM | 0 recs
Other policy nuggets

Besides Health care, other policies interlaced into the speech were:

Remove the influence of Lobbyists in Washington.

End tax cuts for companies who move jobs overseas, roll back the bush tax cuts, a middle class tax cut.

Free us from tyranny of oil, major research for and commitment to  new renewable sources of energy.

End the War in Iraq, bring troops home.

Use 9/11 not scare people but unite people at home and abroad to deal with our common problems of poverty, climate change, genocide, among others.

Hope over fear.

I also found it interesting that Obama like Edwards weaved in some real stories of real people - for Obama it was one who was dealing with health care problems, one was a nephew in Iraq - but he used their stories to talk about hope, that these people while facing their individual problems still had the hope that we can solve these problems and make this a better country.

by Piuma 2008-01-03 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Other policy nuggets

Yeah, I'm familiar with his stump speech, but how are those points different from any other Democrat? How do those standard Democratic goals match his soaring rhetoric or make him any more the change candidate than the rest of the Democratic field? When you dig into Obama's specifics of each of those points, with the possible exception of lobbyists, he is the most cautious in the field. I might buy that he can communicate Democratic priorities well, and that is a critical skill for a president, but he is not a transformational candidate. His rhetoric obscures the centrism of his politics.

Obama is a good speaker, but great speeches communicate something fundamental to society, Obama communicates biography.

by souvarine 2008-01-03 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Other policy nuggets

The same way the supporters here do. It's funny I am trying to see myself getting behind him rather than keeping him as my second choice. Rather than responding in a language that gets the criticism and questions- they fall back on trying to turn ALL into biography.

by bruh21 2008-01-03 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Other policy nuggets

Interesting comments.  A person says there were few policy nuggets in the speech, so I list some that were there without any other commentary and then get this biography thing thrown at me/us. I don't get it.  I know the War on Terror framing is a big thing for you.  Do you realize Obama was the only one who took time to talk to that issue - that we should choose hope over fear, and 9/11 is can be used to unite us to solve our common problems rather than spread fear.  That's not biography.

You said something earlier tonight about Social Security.  I know you're upset because he might have been sloppy a time or two and used the word crisis, not problem, which is how he normally talks about it.  But it struck me that I've rarely seen you talk about his policy on SS, to raise the cap to make the SS tax more progressive.  But you concentrate on the issue of rhetoric not policy and then turn around and say Obama's all about rhetoric.  It just doesn't strike me as either fair or open.  

by Piuma 2008-01-03 09:45PM | 0 recs

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