The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Trolls

If you make a living off arguing why Democrats lose national elections, 2007 is a banner year for you. After all, as I said in the past:
The Democratic Party is in the midst of a severe electoral crisis. Right now, we only control the US House, the US Senate, the majority of Governorships, the majority of state legislatures, and we lead in only seven out of the eight top-tier matchups in the 2008 general election. Our future prospects look equally dim, as those leads in the 2008 general election are only coming from trendlines showing us down by double digits. Further, we hold slender, barely double-digit lead in generic congressional ballots, and we have to defend fully twelve of the thirty-three Senate seats up for re-election in 2008. (That's nearly 40%!) Also, Democrats only hold a net 25-30% edge on Republicans in the favorable / unfavorable ratio, and have only increased their partisan self-identification advantage by a rate of only three points a year for the last five years. While we now hold a fundraising advantage on Republicans for the first time in decades, we, um, uh... ok, I'll just stop there.
Now that we have started winning elections, so it has become more difficult for certain Democratic consultants to play concern troll and make arguments that Democrats must cater to your consultant specialty in order to increase your client base and media presence win elections. Yet, that is exactly what "Mudcat" Saunders does in his latest foray into public dialogue at Time:
If you want a perfect example of how this "intolerance" is helping the Democrats lose national elections, check out the responses to Joe Klein's post on Paris and Libby.
Did someone freeze Mudcat in carbonite in mid-2006, and only thaw him out last week? There is more, too, as the entire post is actually filled with insane quotes like this. For example, I have to wonder exactly how defending Joe Klein fits in with attacking what Mudcat calls:
the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the "Metropolitan Opera Wing". These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance.
Ummm... ok. I guess a northeastern, beltway pundit like Klein somehow avoids this distinction himself. Then there is this gem on the need for open an honest dialogue:
So to those bloggers who believe in a straight-forward dialogue and exchange of ideas, God bless you and thank you. Together, you're coming up with a lot of good stuff, and frankly, much of it has been helpful to me. At the same time, those Democratic bloggers, who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior and believe the only way to win an argument is to shot the loudest with personal attacks, you can go to Hell.
I see that by telling an anonymous and unidentified group of people to "go to Hell," Mudcat is facilitating a straight-forward exchange of ideas already. His hypocrisy is a bit odd, considering that earlier in his piece he decried the hypocrisy of the blogosphere:
To be clear, I have no problem with incivility. After all, I'm in the political business. However, as a pilgrim in the blogosphere, I thought blogging was for exchange of ideas, not personal attacks.
Maybe it is just because I am an irony-loving Gen X type, but there is so much of this type of bizarre, self-contradictory language in Mudcat's post that I think it should be considered a work of true paranoid genius. Start an exchange of ideas by telling people to go to hell. Attack the metropolitan, pseudo-intellectual wing of the Democratic Party by defending Joe Klein. Dismiss John Edwards's biggest area of activist support in the name of rural southern whites. Decry intolerance by stating "I don't care what the "Metropolitan Wing" of my party thinks." Call others pseudo-intellectual without ever sourcing a single stereotype you use. Say you have no problem with incivility in politics, and then lash out against the political blogosphere for being incivil. Claim others are being hypocritical while doing everything I already listed here. Somehow, manage to do all of this in 600 words while maintaining a straight face.

Remarkable stuff. I haven't seen a Democratic consultant be more open with their paranoia concerning, prejudices toward, and general ignorance of, the political blogosphere in some time. This is a post for the ages.

Tags: Blogosphere, Media, mudcat saunders (all tags)

Comments

50 Comments

They Key Chewbacca Demographic

Is not amused.

Cognitive dissonance just doesn't exist anymore. We are beyond that point into just batshit crazy.

by trifecta 2007-06-11 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Looks like Mudcat is just telling it like it is and he is thinking ahead a bit.  At least he invited anyone to go and banter with him.  I hope the diarist will go post the same thing at Swampland that he did here.

With that said, I also think Joe Klein is a twit, but that's just my opinion.

by benny06 2007-06-11 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

said in 2005 when then Senator Jon Corzine was offered membership in DLC and he turned them down;

If we negotiate from the middle the result inevitably takes us to the right - Gov. Jon Corzine

by dearreader 2007-06-11 12:44PM | 0 recs
agree

I agree with his following comments, not sure about that 'go to hell' stuff though.


So to those bloggers who believe in a straight-forward dialogue and exchange of ideas, God bless you and thank you. Together, you're coming up with a lot of good stuff, and frankly, much of it has been helpful to me. At the same time, those Democratic bloggers, who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior and believe the only way to win an argument is to shot the loudest with personal attacks


the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the "Metropolitan Opera Wing". These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance.

by bryandem 2007-06-11 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: agree

Yes - I agree also.

by annefrank 2007-06-11 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh hell ya! me too!

the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the "Metropolitan Opera Wing".

Goddamn opera listening metropoliticos, they ain't no real 'muricans nohow.

The onliest votes that matter is white southerners, and suburbanites, when will the other half of the Democratic party realize this?

Incivil motherfuckers.

by justathought 2007-06-11 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Start an exchange of ideas by telling people to go to hell. Attack the metropolitan, pseudo-intellectual wing of the Democratic Party by defending Joe Klein. Dismiss John Edwards's biggest area of activist support in the name of rural southern whites. Decry intolerance by stating "I don't care what the "Metropolitan Wing" of my party thinks."

It's part of the "Swampland" marketing plan. Tell people to fuck off and watch them drive your "hit" numbers up by inviting you to do the same.

Pretty fucking obvious and pretty fucking pathetic.

by dave1021 2007-06-11 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

You are right.  Especially considering that had Dick Armey on there last week.

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2007-06-11 11:28AM | 0 recs
This is pretty odd...

coming from a guy who's a key Edwards consultant, from what I understand (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Considering all the emphasis that Edwards has put on Netroots outreach, this seems rather unhelpful in that regard.

Weird.  

by rashomon 2007-06-11 10:49AM | 0 recs
Good concerns from an Obama supporter,

but I don't think you can tag Edwards with this.  Nice try, though.

Mudcat speaks for Mudcat and has little interaction with the netroots.

I would be more worried about Colin Powell advising Obama if I were you.

by littafi 2007-06-11 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Good concerns from an Obama supporter,

If that's the case, does Mark Penn's other work not impact your evaluation of Sen. Clinton?

by Adam B 2007-06-11 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Good concerns from an Obama supporter,

All our candidates have crappy people advising them. They also have wonderful people on board too.

It's the law of averages.

by trifecta 2007-06-11 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Good concerns from an Obama supporter,

But it's a big fucking deal when the candidate affected is anyone besides Edwards, right?

by OfficeOfLife 2007-06-11 11:30AM | 0 recs
I like Mudcat.

I agree with attacks on class privilege.  Sometimes he ain't polite.  Good for him.  

by littafi 2007-06-11 10:51AM | 0 recs
That's the point

he's attacking what comes closer to the people to defend the elite classes he says he decries...

by Nazgul35 2007-06-11 11:19AM | 0 recs
Ths explains how...

The Democrats can win by caving to Bush's demands when 70% of the people want timelines! Now I understand the thinking of Dem consultants.

by LnGrrrR 2007-06-11 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory

I think the dirty little secret is that NO ONE really knows how to win races.  That's why a lot of them are unpredictable.  No, not talking about sixty percent districts one way or the other, but seats like Shea-Porter's.

CW would have said that, no matter the issues, that war vet of Emanuel's in Chicago should have won before Carol Shea-Porter (or even Hodes, for that matter).

I think it is more about the mood of the electorate and having a good/likeable candidate.  It's less about strategy than people like Saunders (I refuse to call him 'Mudcat') thinks.

Perhaps this explains HRC.  No one knows truly why she's so ahead.  If she tanked, people would have 100 reasons as to why.  But her staying power?  I have no fucking clue.  Maybe people just like familiarity in an uncertain world.  

IMO, ALL these 'consultants' are overrated.

by jgarcia 2007-06-11 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory

Should those consultants also include netroots front pagers like this one who relish offering campaign strategy free of charge?

by bryandem 2007-06-11 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory

Go Hodes and Carol Shea-Porter! (Shea-Porter is my rep :)

by LnGrrrR 2007-06-11 11:01AM | 0 recs
Why HRC is ahead

Perhaps this explains HRC.  No one knows truly why she's so ahead.

1)name recognition, familiar to most voters
2)very positive feelings among Democrats for the two terms of her husband
3)she's a smart, well-prepared, decent person
4)blurred distinctions on her support for the Iraq War
5)historic significance of the first woman to have a realistic chance at winning the office of President

It's pretty easy to know why she's ahead.

by joejoejoe 2007-06-11 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Why HRC is ahead

nope.  you are pointing out the obvious.  You think no one here knows your points 1-5?  Have I been in a coma for ten years?

My point was THE STAYING POWER.  See her negatives all over the nation?  Yet, here she is.  No one knows REALLY why.  It's more than what you have stated.  

I doubt any of her people, including that asshole Mark Penn, are to be given credit.  I think it just is.  And THAT'S why Obama and Edwards cannot seem to do much better than they have been doing.

by jgarcia 2007-06-11 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Why HRC is ahead

Her negatives largely come from Republicans and Independents and her 'big lead' is a plurality, not a majority of Democrats. She's the first choice of between 35-40% of Democrats to be President. The obvious 'staying power' is due to her compination of laudable qualities and inoffensive acceptability among many Democrats.

by joejoejoe 2007-06-11 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Why HRC is ahead

Good points about the negs.  But there is something else.  Look at her image in the debate.  It's like she was Queen E I in the 16th C.

She has this "thing" about her.  Because of this, she's the surest bet to the presidency, imo, since Nixon in 72.

by jgarcia 2007-06-11 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Why HRC is ahead

6.  She is nothing like the caricature that the republicans created for her. The caricature lowered the bar for her.

by jayackroyd 2007-06-11 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Why HRC is ahead

  You forget her greatest virtue--she annoys the heck out of most Republicans.

by whomever1 2007-06-11 09:43PM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Instead of a post looking for discussion on why Obama is stuck at 25 points, we get a BB suggesting deathbeds.

Sometimes the blogs are indefensible.

by aiko 2007-06-11 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory

Hey! My first serious professional gig was playing in an opera pit. If you were to bet on a gang fight between symphony orchestra musicians and an opera pit you would be well advised to go with the musicians in the opera pit. They're mean and nasty. Collectively, they'll take on anyone.

by Michael Bersin 2007-06-11 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

I love this:

I've got all week to talk about how Republicans take the rural and southern vote for granted in national elections and how the Democrats, for some insane reason, let'em have it.

There are so many questions whose answers are revealed by just turning them inside out:

I've got all week to talk about how Democrats take the urban, liberal, secular and anti-war vote for granted in national elections and how the Republicans, for completely obvious reasons, let'em have it.

by fwiffo 2007-06-11 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Man, I it's a work of art:

If you want a perfect example of how this "intolerance" is helping the Democrats lose national elections, check out the responses to Joe Klein's post on Paris and Libby.

Yes, a bunch of random anonymous people making fun of Joe Klein's post has already cost the Democrats the 2008 election.  Three Democratic congressmen resigned already this afternoon over the Joe Klein/Libby/Paris affair!  We'll never win elections until we court the Southern anti-intellectual, non-metropolitan, Nascar loving, Swampland reading vote.

by fwiffo 2007-06-11 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

As if this wasn't the environment prior to the 2006 election.

All those nasty bloggers prevent the Democrats from winning every election evah!!!!!!!!!!

Damn Bloggers!

by Nazgul35 2007-06-11 11:22AM | 0 recs
Traditional media still quite powerful

Joe Klein is a senior editor at what is still one of the most powerful and widely-distributed media outlets in the United States.  He has quite a bit of power, particularly in his role as the "centerist" house liberal[sic].

sPh

by sphealey 2007-06-11 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Someone should ask Mudcat to explain why Harold Ford lost.

I bet he goes all Yosemite Sam on their ass.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2007-06-11 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

You made me giggle like a little girl on that one!

by Nazgul35 2007-06-11 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

Here we go again. The white rural folk who won it for Corker would surely have voted for a black man if he were just more liberal. That thinking is a big reason for this netroots-DC disconnect in the first place.

by OfficeOfLife 2007-06-11 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

when are guys like you going to GET IT?  It's NOT more liberal or less liberal, it's having your own convictions, not being phony, and not being just a "lite" version of the other guy.

I hit the nail on the head why Ford lost.  He didn't lose based on ideology.  

by jgarcia 2007-06-11 11:44AM | 0 recs
Ummm....no.

My point was that Harold Ford sucked rural whiote man dick in that election, and still lost against a loser candidate in a major down year for Repoublicans.

It wa a race that the Dems would have wo had our nominee been white. And, frankly, even a white man who was MORE LIBERAL that Harold Ford would have beaten Corker.

It's not about liberal vs conservatve. It's about there being too many racist asshole voters in the South.

And, the hell if I am going to cater to those pricks.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2007-06-11 11:49AM | 0 recs
Completely unture

Harold FOrd was true to himself and that is why TN09 voters were sich of his hypocracy!  The voters that had him as there representative for 10 years did not want him in the senate.

He didn't help the district 9 and he leaned to the middle right along with the other blue dogs to get ahead, he was thinking of himself and not the voters in his district. He wanted a quick run to the white house and from what I have heard here in TN - he as a possible fast ticket to be Hillary's vp.

He is all about what is best for Harold rather than any other soul black or white.

by dk2 2007-06-11 01:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Completely unture

Actually Ford received near Presidential-level turnout and vote margins in Memphis. The "lack of support from Democrats" myth that circulates around here is not supported by any facts.

by OfficeOfLife 2007-06-12 01:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Ummm....no.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say. The netroots have been reflexively blaming Ford's ideology for the loss, but he was completely mainstream for Tennessee. He only lost because he was black. Those portraying him as politically irrelevant because he lost (in the toughest competitive Senate race in the country) are just being delusional.  

by OfficeOfLife 2007-06-12 01:32AM | 0 recs
I'm with Tom Schaller on this.

Fuck the South. I mean the old confederacy, minus Florida. Fuck 'em.

We can win nationally without catering to them. Make them cater to US for a fucking change.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2007-06-11 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Tr

INcidemtally,

Is Mudcat arguing that good old boy poulists in rural 'murica think elitist Washington insider, Scooter Libby got a raw deal?

I bet they think Paris Hilton got treated less fairly than Scooter.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2007-06-11 11:18AM | 0 recs
Campaign Consultants should stick to mechanics

If a political candidate is asking some hired gun political consultant what policies he or she should support or oppose -- then that person shoud not be running for office in the first place and doesn't deserve a single vote.

If Mudcat is a whiz at GOTV, or communications strategy such as how to tareget specific districts, or polling, etc. that's one thing.

But if he's telling his candidates what to say to get rurual muricans supporting them, despite what the candidate actually belives, then he's nothing but a con man/used car salesman.

I suspet what pisses off rural muricans and Southerners the most is being patrnized like that sshoe Mudcat. Pretending they are a seperate species of homo sapiens, or something, Rather than treating them like intelligent adults and being honest about how you feel.

And, how does Mudcat explain Rudy Giuliani's lead in South Carolina?

by Hesiod Theogeny 2007-06-11 11:24AM | 0 recs
you mean Fred Thompson?

that's who is leading in the most recent poll

by okamichan13 2007-06-11 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean Fred Thompson?

Oops I was thinking NC, but accorind to averages on Realclear McCain is winning, though doubt he is in reality now with the immigration bill and all.

by okamichan13 2007-06-11 11:56AM | 0 recs
This Paragraph

Maybe it is just because I am an irony-loving Gen X type . . . manage to do all of this in 600 words while maintaining a straight face.

was the funniest fucking thing I've read all day.  
.

by Grand Moff Texan 2007-06-11 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony Of Democratic Victory

Well, Tristero actually has written an opera, Freud and Dora: A Case of Hysteria. So maybe he is the Metropolitan Opera Wing of the Democratic Party.

by Ray Radlein 2007-06-11 12:31PM | 0 recs
My Musical Tastes Are Offended!

I'm sure Mudcat has me in mind.  But, for the record, I have NEVER been to the opera, metropolitan or otherwise. In fact, one could almost say I hate opera.  At least the European kind.  I like the Indian and the Chinese, which makes me worse than Metropolitan--I'm a furriner-loving rootless cosmopolitan, and damn proud of it, by cracky!

But, to be honest, I don't spend that much time listening to Asian opera.  I've spent a lot more time over the years listening to real rural music, be it from the Mississippi Delta, or the Appalachians--not that warmed-over, fourth-hand country-country rock (oh Byrds! oh Poco! oh Flying Burrito Brothers!  Look what you've done!) they peddle in Nashville.

And you know, really, I can't help but thinking that I'm not all that atypical.  Oh, sure, I was a whole lot more into roots music than my contemporaries back when I was in high school.  But most musicians were.  You didn't just listen to the Yardbirds and the Rolling Stones, you listened to the people that they listened to.  (Okay, so I was listening to some of them before I listened to the Rolling Stones, but you get the picture.)  And sooner or later that stuff just has to seep out and get all over everyone's carpet.  Linoleum, too.

Long story short: I think Mudcat's got him one helluva hangover inferiority complex.  If I was a Kentucky Democrat, like my brother, say, I'd be damned pissed at him for trying to speak for me, and selling me so short in the process.

by Paul Rosenberg 2007-06-11 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: My Musical Tastes Are Offended!

Poco?  Really?

by Terp 2007-06-11 05:15PM | 0 recs
Poco? Absolutely!

As in this London club:

Sin City celebrates with style Country/Country influenced Rock and Bluegrass from the late 1960's (Byrds,Poco,Flying Burrito Brothers) through to the mid/late 1970's (Eagles,Emmylou Harris). The obscure tunes of The Dillards,Charlie Daniels Band,David Allan Coe etc are mixed together with the favourites of the era, Glen Campbell,Bellamy Brothers,Kenny Rogers and lots more.

by Paul Rosenberg 2007-06-12 03:32AM | 0 recs
Re: The Agony

Mudcat, shut the hell up. Being a redneck is not the solution to everything.

by PsiFighter37 2007-06-11 05:13PM | 0 recs

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