The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

I'm in awe of the GOP GOTV machine.  It's amazing.  The Republicans have a tightly knit and centralized organization.  When Karl Rove speaks, GOPers jump.  The RNC, from their lair in the Virginia suburbs, control every action of every volunteer, in fact every word that comes out of every Republicans' mouth.  This machine is beautiful, it is magnificent, it sweats perfume and gold.  One of my friends had a fight with his wife, and the GOP GOTV machine came by with some pie and good advice.  But it's not just nice.  Don't make the GOP GOTV machine angry or Karl Rove will use his mutant powers to morph into a 1000 foot tall SwiftBoatzilla, and he'll have all the Democratic voters paralyzed on election day by using his control of the Matrix.  

As for us?  Well, there's no way to say this nicely.  Bob Shrum has every Democrat under his spell of incompetence, controlling every single word that any of us utter.  You may think your comments are your own, but they are not.  You are writing them because Shrum planted a chip in your brain and he wants you to write those words.  It's worse than that, actually.  Democrats shackle James Bond a little too loosely, and then leave the scene to cackle.  We kill our volunteers.  We constantly get wedgies from smarter, cooler, bigger kids.  We never use deodorant.  We just hired Saddam as our new spokesperson.  We are the kid that never gets away with it.  We've never kissed a girl.  We get creepy entreaties for threesomes at and JDate.  Sucks to be us, doesn't it?

Does that help clarify the differences between the two party infrastructures?  I hope so.

Which brings me to my pet peeve, the myth of Karl Rove.  He's a smart guy.  He's good at what he does.  But he's not an immortal, he makes a lot of mistakes, and he was beaten in Texas by Democrats for years.  More than that, he is just an individual, and not particularly important except as a symbol of what can exist when you have an efficient political culture grafted onto a set of partisan church networks, topped off with a sociopathic ideology.  Let's be honest about their strengths, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking we are losers and they are deities.

Speaking abstractly, the right has a top-down centralized infrastructure that's more mature than ours.  We have a legacy of political disagreements that translate into less efficient yet equally centralized infrastructure.  They have little capacity for locally based decision-making, we have a great capacity for local organizing when we decided to use it.  They own the media.  We are building our own media.  They are more experienced and have more savvy about how to manipulate the political system.  We are smarter, younger, newer to politics, and we have the passion and energy of a new movement instead of the vicious cynicism of a dying movement.

In other words, they are just not that good, and we are just not that bad.  And we are getting better at a far faster rate than they are.  In fact, there's good reason to think that in lots of pockets all over the country, there's some incredibly innovative work going on with progressive organizing and campaigning.  First of all, let's take the internet.  We are so much better than they are it's not even funny.  We have almost no investment relative to them, and yet, we have Actblue.  Ben Rahn, a physicist from Caltech, is a progressive, and he's building our that site (along with MIT genius Matt Debergalis).  We have Dailykos.  We have Moveon.  We have ColorofChange.  What do they have?  GOPUSA?  Um, that kind of sucks.  Church email lists?  Yeah, those are valuable, but that's not new infrastructure for them.  They are squeezing water from a rock.  We are beating them badly on the internet organizing front.  Badly.  And they know it.  We have a lot more talent and it's our medium.  

There's also a lot more talent on our side, it's just less establishment, badly paid, and not reliant on media to be effective.  Jefferson Smith at the Oregon Bush project is the most charismatic and innovative organizer in Oregon, Justin Krebs is the force behind Drinking Liberally, Marc Laitin is an amazing young consultant, Judith Freeman is a microtargeting wizard, James Rucker is a political genius, Juan Melli a rising star in New Jersey, Gina Cooper a fabulous presence, Jerry Meek a North Carolina inspiration, Zack Exley a movement builder extraordinaire.  And that's not to speak of someone like Chris Bowers, who is smarter, more aggressive, more honest, and more effective than Stuart Rothenberg.  There are tons more of course, I'm just naming some of the people I think highly of.  

More than that, we have the Beth Soto's of the world, the key people on the ground who have their blogs and just make it all work.

Home Team

But that's not all.  On the 72 hour program front, have we forgotten that the RNC learned it from labor?!?  I mean come on.  This came from us.  We can do it better, and in some places, we are doing it better.  Take the New York 19th district, where John Hall is running hard against Sue Kelly in New York State.  Tate Hausman is the architect of Hall's impressive field campaign called 'Home Team'.  They have a thousand plus volunteers from all over the country that use a web-based popvox call system to phone bank.  I've used one of these in Connecticut, and they change the phone-banking experience dramatically.  Traditionally, phone-banking consists of dialing a number, asking questions, and filling out paper to record the answers, which then must be rekeyed later with more volunteer work (and errors).  The popvox system works with your phone.  You open the browser, and the program asks you for your phone number.  About ten seconds later, the system calls you and places you on hold.  A name, a script and a phone number appears on the browser, with several buttons that you can press.  Once you press the call button on your browser, the system automatically dials the person's number on the screen, and you have the script laid out for you.  If you get an answering machine, you can click a button and the system will automatically leave a pre-recorded message.  When you're done talking, you classify them according to the script responses, click 'end' and a new script and person's name comes up on the screen.

Pow.  Nice.  Neat.  Easy.  It increased my phone banking effiiciency by at least 50%, and phone-banking was more fun now that I didn't have to dial numbers and read scripts into answering machines.  And it helps the campaign because they don't have to rekey information and can tailor phone-banking with a few administrative clicks instead of having to cut and recut lists.  It's great.

The John Hall campaign in the 19th district is using this system, and training volunteers from all over the country.  They are making thousands of contacts a night with aggressive and talented volunteers, and putting that data back into the system.  Each volunteer can keep track of their progress and their goals, and the campaign can identify and reward the best volunteers.  Their opponent, Sue Kelly?  Not so much.  She's being pissy and running nasty ads that will have no resonance after the election, assuming that her contractor/developer husband will shield her from her votes for the war and votes against veterans benefits.

I know it's sexy to say 'microtargeting Karl Rove boogeyman BOO' and we'll get all 'Diebold is scary'.  And there's a lot of work to do.  But Karl Rove doesn't control the world.  Each of us, with our individuals actions and behavior, have our own part to play.  We can convince America to be better than its worst instincts.  As Wesley Clark says, we can do it, because we are doing it.  So volunteer for the terrific John Hall in New York's 19th.  You can do it from anywhere.

Tags: actblue, Ben Rahn, John Hall, Karl Rove, netroots, Sue Kelly (all tags)



Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Good points.  Given the inherent difficulties of running a mass, volunteer-based GOTV program, I always suspected the media characterization of the GOP 72 hr plan as a ruthlessly efficient, well-oiled machine was mostly hype.  Not that it's ineffective, but I don't feel like I've seen any empirical evidence that suggests it's vastly superior to what our side does.  Are there any good independent studies on this?  

You could say the proof is in GOP victories in '02 and '04, but I really think those victories ultimately had more to do w/ big-picture factors (like the quality of the candidates and the overall political landscape).

by dal27 2006-10-27 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Yeah, '02 in particular was a classic case of a macro political environment favoring one side. They maneuvered it pretty well on the political front (beating the Dems on the Dept of Homeland Security and pushing the Iraq vote), but that had nothing to do with ground-work.

'04 was similar, but less so. I mean, they did better than their pathetic attempts at GOTV in the late-90s, but it's not like they invented the wheel or something.

Then look at Kaine in VA. The GOP was talking up their GOTV advantage before that election, and Kaine blasted them.

I just don't think the 72 Hour Project is all that.

John Hall's effort sounds great, though. I was trying to put together something very similar for my guy, but I ran out of time ... it's this kind of work that will leverage the Democratic advantage in Internet organizing into ever greater gains.

by BriVT 2006-10-27 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

yeah, absolutely. it drives me nuts to hear about Rove as some political genius. all he did was figure out how to manipulate 911 for political gain. Bush was destined to be a 1-term President before 911. all the stuff coming out now about GOP incompetence was there before, it was just swamped by voter fear, fear that, to his credit, Rove knew how to manipulate.

by Chris G 2006-10-27 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'


by Robert P 2006-10-27 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Thank you. It really does depend on where you are. For example --

One of the reasons I've yet to get terribly nervous about the Menendez race here in NJ, despite tight polling, is because I've seen, all across and up and down the state (I travel a lot!), the NJ Dem ground game vs. the NJ GOP ground game in the past four or five cycles, which includes our off-year Gov races. It's like watching the Yankees play my son's T-ball team. I am not kidding, in the gubernatorial race in '01, I saw canvassing by Greens and Socialists, let alone Dems -- but no Republicans. I've been all over NJ-05 recently, and Aronsohn signs are plastered all over the district -- Aronsohn! -- but Garrett signs only in a few concentrated areas. Every union HQ that I pass is buzzing. Rallying the Repub base? NJ Right to Life sent out a letter this week endorsing and urging its members to vote for a minor 3rd party candidate, specifically requesting that they not vote for Kean.

Granted, I'm not claiming to have visited every pocket of the state this election season, but I see a lot more of it than the average person, and I have to say, this is the reason the concept of "swing state" New Jersey always seems to evaporate on Election Day.

by jamfan 2006-10-27 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'


In masses,  there are voter registration drives and handing out absentee ballots.  

by jasmine 2006-10-27 06:34PM | 0 recs
Rove defeatism

I am glad MyDD tackles the myth of Karl Rove.  That myth hurts democratic enthusiasm.  It's to the point that anything which helps republicans is attributed to his genius.  As if there aren't just random events that occasionally go the GOP's way.

All his high spirits and cocksure enthusiasm will be great for ruining him after this.  He'll be finished, because the bubble will be popped.

by scientician 2006-10-27 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Rove defeatism

tar and feather him!

by heyAnita 2006-10-27 12:26PM | 0 recs
rofl thats hilarious

See? This is why indies love the dems right now.


by heyAnita 2006-10-27 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

With whom do I get in touch to set up our own version of this phone banking system? What are they using to do that?

That is truly awesome. It gets rid of so many problems I can't even think...



by phatass 2006-10-27 12:36PM | 0 recs
Macro beats Micro

I ahve said this a million times: The best goddamned GOTV operation in the history of mankind will only get you a few points.

If the MACRO environment is really blowing in your face, hard, you are not ghoing to win.

You may limit the damage a bit, but you are not going to win.

Also, it's EASIER to GOTV when your voters think their candidates have a reasonable shot at winning.

If they don't, you can contact them a zillion times and they are not necessarily going to show up.

And then there's the X factor, whcih actually bit the GOP in the ass in the S. Dakota Senate race between Thune and Tim Johnson in 2002.

The GOP actually turned out a bunch of Johnson voters!

Amd I think that's the risk they run now. They don't know, for certain, who these folks are actually going to vote for in the end. For real.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2006-10-27 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Macro beats Micro

As someone else noted in response to this, a couple of points really is the difference in a bunch of races and certainly could have been the difference between Gore winning by 500 votes and winning by 50,000 votes.

But more importantly, if we build the better GOTV operations, and can find a way to do it with a volunteer base while still being accountability driven (even if yikes that means being top down and centralized) then the impact of what you can do grows from cycle to cycle.

As you grow your capacity in each cycle you can expand the baseline that you are working from.

This also shifts the political dynamic as electeds and thinking about it candidates have to be more mindful of this active base (see how high Karl jumps for the organized conservatives) than they do the insider washington folks.

I think Matt's post is great for perspective and we should keep re-building a better field operation and infrastructure cycle in and cycle out.  

by Orlando 2006-10-27 01:00PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

This was a really fucking funny post, Matt.  Good work!

by HellofaSandwich 2006-10-27 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'


Let's not get cocky. And let's not dismiss Karl Rove. He is very, very good. Better than we are.

by Patrick Thompson 2006-10-27 12:45PM | 0 recs
Karl gets 168 hours a week, same as the rest of us

Karl is just one person, and there's jut no way he can keep up with us.

There are about 150 competitive house, senate, and governor races, and even the biggest of workaholics can't keep up a 120 hr work week.  Just keeping up with all the scandals takes about half that time, and if he helped with all campaigns, he'd have just minutes per race.  And that doesn't even count his Administration duties.

No, there's just too much and too many people for one person to have that large of an effect this late in the game.  He may have set the tone earlier in the season, but his "claim to fame" was decades ago with direct mail.

If he were really smart, there'd be a strong and powerful netroots on the right.  They don't.  QED.

by aip 2006-10-27 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Karl gets 168 hours a week, same as the rest o

The left-wing netroots may be overrated, but it is far better than what the right has, and it does serve a purpose.

RedState is the closest thing the right has to a DKos, but it only gets a tiny fraction of the traffic. Free Republic doesn't pull much either. LGF is single-issue. Powerline and Instapundit don't allow comments. Townhall doesn't allow diaries.

No, the netroots isn't everything, but it does make a difference. The netroots go after the races that fall through the cracks. Although he lost, Paul Hackett made the Republicans spend a lot of money for a "safe" seat. If Vic Wulsin picks it up in November, the netroots would have paved the way for her. Would John Edwards have even given longshot Larry Kissell and his $88.94 the time of day had the netroots not jumped on that race early? If Kissell wins this seat, that's a victory for the netroots.

Conversely, there is nothing from the right to help Ralph Norman next door in SC-05. Democrat Congressman John Spratt holds a commanding lead in the polls and this race has dropped off the board.

As the poster from RedState laments, nobody is helping Shelley Gibbs or Joe Negron, although neither has the liabilities of Tom DeLay or Mark Foley, respectively. These are the types of races the party neglects and the netroots would pick up - if there were a netroots on the right.

I remember when Chris Bowers challenged (or actually demanded) that the Democrats field challengers for all 435 Congressional districts. It seemed impossible. We didn't quite make that goal, but there are 425 Democrats on the ballot, a new record for either party. Republicans don't even have 400. That means there are more Republican Congressmen that have to stay home and deal with even an obscure challenger than can go out and raise money for their buddies. I don't know how much the netroots had to do with this, but it didn't hurt.

While netroots alone can't win an election, the netroots are certainly making a difference in this election, and will probably gain the Democrats several seats due to their efforts.

by wayward 2006-10-27 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Not Better.  More Viscious.  Will stoop lower.  Has no morals.

by David in Burbank 2006-10-28 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Your sarcasm is very stress-reliving. Thank you.

by forecaster15 2006-10-27 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Did anyone hear about the NPR reporter's interview with good ol' Karl?  He claimed that he had internal polls that had them retaining control of the house.  When pressed on his sources Karl said he had "The Math" while the NPR poller was simply relying on generic ballots.

by nzubechukwu 2006-10-27 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Of course Karl says his internal polling shows them winning.  The minute he expresses any doubt that the GOP will be able to hang on, morale in their GOTV operation will collapse and they'll be in even bigger trouble than they're already in.

by dal27 2006-10-27 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Rove is bluffing.

by wayward 2006-10-27 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Not bluffing, bullshitting.  A bluff is a deception that you seriously hope and expect your opponents to believe; with bullshit, just about everyone knows its bullshit, but a lot of people will give you a pass lest you call them on their own bullshit.

by Alex 2006-10-27 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

This is great. A win this season will further energize Dem organizers and volunteers.

The problem that I see is still with the DC Dem establishment and leadership. They are still in awe and afraid of the Rove bogeyman. They don't believe that they can win by challenging the Repubs with better message frames for their most important principles and sstanding tall and not cowering to every threat and sleaze attack.

I hope some of new Dem congressional class who won on the basis of real grassroots support and strong principled messages will add spine to the DC establishment and not just get coopted into the loser DC Dem establishment attitude.

by ab initio 2006-10-27 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

I fully agree he's not unbeatable...and it's only good for a few points (maybe 4).....And clearly if the wave is big enough it won't help.

But it put Bush in office TWICE. More so in 2004 when he had no right being re-elected. In 2004 when we did better than ever in history. And they still beat us.

That is very impressive. If we simply dismiss it and mock it - we will be destined to continue losing.

by Patrick Thompson 2006-10-27 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Uh. Al Gore won in 2000 by 543,895 votes. Daddy's family retainers got dubya the gig.

by Michael Bersin 2006-10-27 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

a relevant thread at RedState.

by azizhp 2006-10-27 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Wow. Depressed as he is, the dude is still holding out hope that they pick up two Senate seats, losing only the hated Chafee while picking up NJ and MD.

by jamfan 2006-10-27 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

I'm glad you said this, Matt.  I'm tired of Democrats being willing to believe the RNC's (and, by extension, the media's) line that the RNC has this 72-hour GOTV thing so down pat that it will win the election for them.

Having done GOTV for a few years now, I know that, no matter what kind of relationships you have with your constituents, you can only do so much.  You only have so many resources and so much time, and, ultimately, when the news out of Iraq keeps getting worse, the costs keep piling up, and the economy remains in the dumps, you're going to face a struggle not unlike trying to herd thousands of cats across a mountain.  i.e. good friggin' luck.

Especially if those cats see the river of milk you're trying to lead them away from.

GOTV is most effective at turning out your marginal supporters, the folks who would be on the fence at going to the polls but who would vote for you if they did go - so you "get out the vote" that otherwise might not be gotten out.  GOTV is not good at changing minds or turning out people who don't vote.  It just annoys those people.

So we need to stop whining about how great Karl Rove is, keep doing what we can to turn out our side, and know that so much of it is beyond what any of us could ever accomplish.

by sfluke 2006-10-27 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Karl Rove is good at one thing: Planning his work and working his plan. You don't have to be brilliant to do that. You really don't even have to be talented. This year, I'd rather be us.

by herbal tee 2006-10-27 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'


by grokgov 2006-10-27 01:41PM | 0 recs
Part of the reason is that... and at Kos lots of the front-pagers CONSTANTLY harp on the incredible EFFECTIVENESS of the GOP GOTV operation. Throughout the building Dem wave I've read more and more about their incredible program.

I know it's to keep people grounded but at least for me it's made me totally depressed about GOTV and I KNOW from my own experience and from people higher up in the process that there's been massive improvement in the last 2 years.

by MNPundit 2006-10-27 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Part of the reason is that...

I agree.  I think Kos is guilty of a little of what Rove is guilty of.  Rove is faking his confidence.  Kos is claiming how the Republicans "know how to close and win elections" and thus we need to worry.   I don't buy it on either side.  The last 5 years have been a very unique situation for in the US.  For people with no ethics it has proven fertile ground.    

Rove has used a very old and proven stragegy.  He didn't invent it.  If you are willing to start wars and invent bogeyman to advance your political power, you can win in the short term.  Its pretty simple.   Will you build your "permanent majority" with this approach?   Doesn't look like it.

As others on this thread have pointed out, there are no right wing netroots.   Here in NY there is nothing on their side and a ton of people on our side like the great people at Take19 who are going to help get John Hall elected.  

by democracyinalbany 2006-10-27 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Part of the reason is that...

What Kos and the others here at MyDD are doing is classic football coach strategy. Talk down your own team... build up the other guys in public.

Meanwhile in the locker room, at practice, your team becomes that much more vicious and hungry. Come Saturday, suddenly the Goliath on the other side gets beat 44-3.

Lou Holtz was notorious for using this tactic at Notre Dame. It makes the win feel that much more special.

by duke1376 2006-10-27 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Part of the reason is that...

I'm not a football player and that kind of talk doesn't make me hungry. It demoralizes me and demobilizes me for more than helps me. I don't know if this is a sentiment shared by a lot of the community or just a few but that's how it is with me.

by MNPundit 2006-10-28 08:08AM | 0 recs
one other thing

if you were a genius, would you pick George W Bush as your candidate?

by democracyinalbany 2006-10-27 02:41PM | 0 recs
Bush makes Rove look good

Bush is a very disciplined candidate who stays on message and refuses to fire campaign managers when the guns are shooting.

Our consultants offer the same kind of low, knee-in-the-balls advice to our candidates. The difference is, Bush takes it.

You're never as good as they say you are when they say you're good, and you're never as bad as they say you are when they say you're bad.

There are a couple hundred guys as good as Rove, working in both parties, probably more. All it really takes is some experience, a high energy level, and a dirty mind.

by stevehigh 2006-10-27 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush makes Rove look good

well, i guess if you were only in it to get to the second term and not concerned about ruining your party then you might consider Bush a good candidate/puppet.  

somehow i don't think being "the architect" of this mess is going to be something that will give Rove a desirable place in the history books.  But, then again people like James "jimmy" Baker probably make a bit more money than you or me.  And if you are just in it for the money, who cares what they say about you?  Rove will die rich and hated.

by democracyinalbany 2006-10-27 02:54PM | 0 recs
I smell repug blood in the water!!!

I am going to work hard so I can enjoy the destruction of GOP Empire. How fucking sweet!!!

by HCLiberal 2006-10-27 03:07PM | 0 recs

   We have a pretty good GOTV operation here in Western Maryland. The state party has invested some resources on the ground game out here (which hasn't always been the case), and I've been quite impressed with the energy. The Frederick Dem HQ is a beehive.

  We've got a GOTV meeting tomorrow, and we're expecting over 70 volunteers to show and start dividing up the territory. This is in a Republican stronghold.

 The pugs aren't all that ahead of us. I'm litdropping tomorrow -- as I've been doing every weekend for the last month or so...

by Master Jack 2006-10-27 03:28PM | 0 recs
Post of the Year

This is, bar none, the post of the year. I'm sick and tired of all this talk about the GOP GOTV campaign. It's one thing for Kos to keep us grounded and not get cocky, but for regular people to fret about Rove and Diebold and GOTV is just annoying. In fact, it's counterproductive. When you say the system is rigged against you, your supporters don't bother to come out and vote. It's actually a terrible thing that so many African Americans believe their vote won't be counted.

by elrod 2006-10-27 03:36PM | 0 recs
Isn't the real talent in suppressing the vote?

We forgot that their real genius is in making sure Democratic territory gets fewer working machines, tries intimidation on voters, making sure that if there is a felon who shares your name means you too, may not vote.

by drowsy 2006-10-27 03:58PM | 0 recs
Gravity where we want it to be

I'm in awe of the Lamont GOTV machine.  It's amazing.  The Lamontites have a tightly knit and centralized organization...

by Gary Kilbride 2006-10-27 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Not surprised by this.  a transcript was released of a meeting between bush and journalists.  The journalists all make reference to their meetings with Rove, about which is more a hot button issue -- iraq or immigration -- for the elections.  Journalists also all voice support for iraq war, and recommend ways for bush to make it seem more successful leading up to the election.  rove is so cozy with the reporters and bush is also, it's very hard to compete against this cript_rele.html

by GusB 2006-10-27 05:29PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'

Dont underestimate the GOP.

They pulled so many upsets because of GOTV.  

Remember Busby and BillBray.  They would have a list of possible voters who havent vote yet and inclined to vote for them and be able to make them vote by absentee.

by jasmine 2006-10-27 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: The Myth of Karl versus 'Home Team'
One of the things I do like about being a dem is that I'm not part of a well oiled machine.  I like the rough edges.
The machine is impersonal in reality and a coorporation.  it's cold.
We've had our rough times but, we also had a great run before that.  It took the well oiled machine only 12 years before it broke down.
by vwcat 2006-10-27 06:54PM | 0 recs


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