We Won--What's Next?

Mourn the losses, because they are many; but celebrate the victories, because they are few--Queer as Folk

It appears to be over. On the eve of the State of the Union Address we had hoped we would never witness, Howard Dean seems to have won the race for DNC chair. With Frost dropping out and congratulating Dean, with Leland and Webb dropping out and endorsing Dean, with a 6-1 lead in endorsements over the remaining candidates combined, with Rosenberg "considering his options," with the Fowler blow-up at the ASDC, with the blogosphere Roemer take down, I can no longer see a way that Dean does not win this thing. I can barely believe it. It looks like we finally won something.

Outside becomes inside. At the June 2003 Meetup, I remember watching a video message from Dean where he said "we are going to take our party back, then we are going to take our country back, and then we are going to take the White House back." Perhaps then this is the path we had to take. We have begun to take our party back. From that point, we can begin to take back our country.

I do not have as eloquent a post on this as Jerome did earlier this morning, but I do know that I don't want to listen to fundamentalist preachers anymore. Our chance to take back our party has arrived, but make no mistake: electing Howard Dean chair can only be seen as the beginning of that process. In particular, the Democratic consultant aristocracy is still firmly entrenched. Dean can only open the door for us--walking through it is another matter enitrely.

I am going to savor this victory tonight, and tomorrow I am going to attend the Philadelphia DFA Meetup. I imagine it will be somewhat like I had hoped the February 4th, 2004 Meetup would be.

Be happy, for a new day has begun. Now, I want to know what's next.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)



to the consultants:  The gravy train is over.

On the other hand how sad a commentary is it on the supposed "power players" in the party that they went down this easy. Really explains a lot about the last four years.

For years they've been ignoring the grassroots and state parties.  Looks like they're now paying the price.

by Fledermaus 2005-02-01 01:44PM | 0 recs
Dean is going down in flames.
Just had to do that.

We can't jinx ourselves like last February.

Listen to Chris -- attend your DFA meetup.

by AnneinPhilly 2005-02-01 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
Jeeze -- I meant last December...
by AnneinPhilly 2005-02-01 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
Thank you

because these people are making me nervous too. I feel like Toby on the West Wing I don't want to see one balloon until the last vote is counted...

by Parker 2005-02-01 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
You want to... tempt the fire from...up on top of the thing?

Go outside, turn around two times, spit, do everything, go!

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
Dean has just been caught in bed with a dead girl and live boy AT THE SAME TIME!!!!

Ok there, we're safe.  WHY HADN'T WE DONE THIS ON NOV. 2ND.

by jkfp2004 2005-02-01 04:41PM | 0 recs
Everyone put on an Orange Hat and walk around in the snow!!!
by Parker 2005-02-01 04:50PM | 0 recs
hey it's gonna snow down here tonight
i might just do that.
by annatopia 2005-02-01 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Quick!!!!
Would that be the orange hat from the 'Gathering Storm, the one from the 'Rising Storm,' or the one from the 'Perf..oh, Shit..Storm'?

(PS. The Iowa staffer who migrated to our office in Keene, NH after the caucus patently REFUSED to take the hat off, night or day...it was adorable.)

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Quick!!!!
That would that latter.

I think these hats should come back into fashion. Dean owned the scream we should own the orange hats again.

They are very retro.

by Parker 2005-02-01 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Quick!!!!
My husband has worn mine pretty consistently since last year. But then, that loud orange hat replaced another one of (if you can believe it) lesser quality.
by emptywheel 2005-02-01 11:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Quick!!!!

That's how we LOST the last time.  (And I was one of those orange hats!)

by Jim in Chicago 2005-02-01 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Quick!!!!
That is the point we are not trying to be overly confident so we are baiting fate with bad luck symbols...read the comments above
by Parker 2005-02-01 05:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
If you really want to appease the Gods of irony just stand up and shout, "GEORGE W BUSH WON BOTH ELECTIONS LEGITAMATELY AND IS A FANTASTIC LEADER!"  You have to do it with a straight face (it takes a few hours)...that should help undo the damage already done.  ;-)
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
Or we can just throw him into a volcanoe...
by Parker 2005-02-01 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
Make sure to pack the steamer trunks with the putting strip inside...and a bit of Meg Ryan wouldn't hurt either.
by CT Lex 2005-02-01 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is going down in flames.
OOH...I like that idea!!!  
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:46PM | 0 recs
OT - but for Chris:
ABC World News Tonight is playing a LONG story now on alleged lack of free speech for conservatives on college campuses.  It focuses on how "liberal" most professors are and how conservative and Christian speech has been (allegedly) stifled.  No mention of related legislation, but it was a lengthy piece I'd imagine you'd want to see.  

(So sorry for posting OT here, but I didn't see an email address in your MyDD profile.)

And on topic:

I know it's completely unlikely that anyone but Dean will be elected chair of the DNC, but I have to admit that I'm still too gun-shy to celebrate yet.  But there will be a huge celebration (at least at my keyboard) on Feb 13th!

by Maura in CT 2005-02-01 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: OT - but for Chris:
I saw an advertisement in Philadelphia's craigslist for a case worker -- to work on "free speech" cases for students. What kind of free speech? When I went to their website, all of the free speech involved hate speech violations at Universities...Another example of the Republican Noise Machine.
by AnneinPhilly 2005-02-01 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: OT - but for Chris:
That's ironic considering 1/3 of all high school students thinks the government should curtail the stories that the press can report. I didn't know where these students were located. But, it does seem odd that for people who are all about the right to do whatever, and let society be free to do whatever, they seem to whine an aweful ammount about how they are the victims. I personally think we need to start calling them what they are- a bunch of cry babies.
by bruh21 2005-02-01 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: OT - but for Chris:
I thought it was even higher than a third.  I have the article in my pocket and was gonna do a diary later.  Chris really should write something about this because he would do the topic a better turn than I.  I want to know how legitimate the company is that did the survey.  

HOW IN GOD'S NAME CAN ANYONE THINK THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTS TOO MUCH?  That the government should have censorship rights on Newspapers.  Hell, even Reagan would have been against this...I remember hearing how bad Russia was in the 80's because they DID censor the papers.  These kids must have completely skipped American History or are just plain ignorant.  It is disgraceful.  If this is the next generation of Republicans, we are all gonna be poor Seniors out on the street when they are in power.  This needs to be nipped right now.  

by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: OT - but for Chris:
Here is the CNN article.  Half thought that newspaper should have government approval on stories.  


Sorry, this just makes me sick.

by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: OT - but for Chris:
One of the systematic issues of our system is the dumbing down of the population so that they don't even understand the system in which they live in. This is just one example. There are many. It's an issue that is found both on the left and right and center. It comes in the form of not being taught basic civics anymore. When people are complaining that students are too focused on test taking and not enough of critical thinking, there is a reason. This is one of the consequences of not having critical thinking.

I was talking to a friend about this. He says he doubts they even understood the nature of what they were saying. Others in my office thought this was more a sign of just paroting what they thought their parents might say. What scares me is not that they believe this, but that I am left wondering how can we have a functional democracy with so many civic illterate people.

It is akin to the election period. I blame Kerry for a lot of things. And, the media. But, on a certain level, it comes down to your audience too. If they are willing to engage in the idea of giving up their freedoms for a sham safety then what hope is there for progress on anything. Even this is predicted by social scientist who have warned that people who are comfortable are all to willing to give up their freedoms for comfort. Or, in this case, their freedoms for their need to believe in the mythic aspects of American life.

That's why I believe on issues such as civil rights we go in circles. People don't know their history, business or our political system. Indeed, in the case of Iraq, we see the same thing. How can anyone who has read about the Vietnam War not be bothered by the parrallels? And, yet, that begs the question, do they even know that there are parrallels?

In the lead up to the war, I was talking to some people on the left who supported the war, and was talking to them about the dangers of hegemony or a single world power acting unilaterally. My point was that, like the Soviet Bear, the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Germans in WWII, the thing that can destroy a state are its own internal pressures brought on by excess and over extention of resources and effort.

In this case, I argued our own actions will hurt the American control abroad especially, as is the case, it is not executed well. This was covered recently in an article that someone posted on here. The signs of our loss of control abroad, and the decline of the American empire. What was scary. What really bothered me. Was that I had to go through all the basics of history and governmental issues just to get them on the same page. These were conversations of hours. Now, imagine having to do that with an entire country. Trying to explain the complex reasons why a war like this never, at least historically, has ever truly suceeded. Why the danger of the war is greater to the empire propetuating the war than too the country's "enemies."  Essentially, I was arguing that the war was not sustainable. That no actions such as the one we were embarking on has ever been truly sustainable, and if it is then it will be because we were willing to sacrifice and show resolve to actually do as we did in Kosovo by doing all the right things. In other words, you don't win wars by jingoism, you when by using the right strategy. The response, normally tepid, was along the lines of well that's my opinion, and that supporting the war, was theirs. When everything is reduced to opinion, and nothing is fact, then what are we left with? When I read that poll, I was reminded of this quote because I realized that when even freedom of speech becomes a matter not of precendent or system of governance, then we are lift with the outlines for a future dictatorship. And, that's the part that scares me most. I can only hope that these kids were truly not thinking about what they were saying.

by bruh21 2005-02-01 07:41PM | 0 recs
I am optimistic that at the election, Simon Rosenberg will be named the new chairman and the flame war will end.
by kydem 2005-02-01 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Optimism
Maybe not DNC chair but Simon will definatly get a high post in the DNC if not Vice Chair.
by jkfp2004 2005-02-01 04:42PM | 0 recs
Next...line em up...
and knock em down!
by Erik 2005-02-01 02:07PM | 0 recs
Good Article on the DLC
Love the DLC or... not...

Here's a well written item on the DLC:


by MattCT 2005-02-01 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Good Article on the DLC
Pretty thoughtful article, but I hear the words 'I'm an FDR Democrat' used as a caveat...

...and all I can do is flashback to an altercation with a horde of party-crashing LaRouchies in Boston last summer who all said the exact same thing. It was nightmarish.

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 03:45PM | 0 recs
Early celebration
I hate to say this, Chris, but the tone of your post is eerily similar to the optimistic posts I was reading on this site mid-day last November 2nd, when the first exit polls came out.

Please wait to savor the victory until it is an actual fact.

by nocloset 2005-02-01 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Early celebration
This formula does not compute well for the Democratic Party:
Dean(DNC)+ BLOGNuts(Netroots Dinos) <= Winning Strategy / Winning DNA for House/Senate in 2006 & Presidency in 2008

Dean will not be a cohesive force in helping foster a more successful Democratic Party. His DNA brand of DeanNA does not equal a good political combination.

In other words, his political Voodoo DNA ain't going to help father and nuture winning Democratic Candidates.

Diaries :: Democratic Dad's diary :: Wed Feb 2nd, 2005 at 07:55:04 AM EST [Edit Diary]

This formula does not compute well for the Democratic Party:
Dean(DNC)+ BLOGNuts(Netroots Dinos) <= Winning Strategy / Winning DNA for House/Senate in 2006 & Presidency in 2008

Dean will not be a cohesive force in helping foster a more successful Democratic Party. His DNA brand of DeanNA does not equal a good political combination.

In other words, his political Voodoo DNA ain't going to help father and nuture winning Democratic Candidates.

Howard's psychological profile shows implosion is just a scram away. Sure, "He hates Republicans" ... but I believe he hates himself even more and the politically / economically powerless (correlates with heavy Blogging)are following Dean down a sad track where there will be a Democratic Party Trainwreck with HD at the controls.

Here's what I think will happen with Dean at the DNC:

  • White male voters in the South will continue their exodus to the Republicans as they have done so ever since LBJ helped get the Civil Rights bill passed. Their DixieLike perception of the Democratic Party with HD as the titular head will just reinforce the notion that the Republican Party as the White Peoples Party & the Anti Gay Party. The Republican / Rove / Media complex will make this certain.

  • Brown male and female voters in the Southwest will see that Dean & The Democratic Party are not the Party of God like the Republican Party is. These serious Catholics from south of the border sure ain't going to cotton to the Anti God / Anti Family values that they know have a perception that the Democratic Party is. Take a look at the 2004 Stats for Arizona and learn more.

  • White male jewish cabal on Wall Street sure in the hell ain't going to be throwing money toward the Democrats with Howard Dean in there ... they percieve him as Anti-Establishment and the Republicans as the Party for the Establishment / the Party For Golf Club Goers / The party for the less than conservative "HAVE MORES" So that leaves Dean and the DNC to rely on the PiggyBank fundraising mentality of NetRooters with that clanging type of money instead of the folding money.

  • All color white/female serious Church Goers are certainly not going to cotton to Dean and the Democrats who they see as the party of the faithless when they see the Republicans as the party of the faithful.

Democratic Dad
Father of a few Democratic Elite and Rearer of Fatass Republicans
by Democratic Dad 2005-02-02 03:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Early celebration
All this is really interesting, except it has absolutely nothing to do with what the DNC actually does.

Dean has already shown himself to be a cohesive force, showing particular strength in Red States where DFA candidates ran better than Kerry during the election.  His plan to decentralize the DNC, may have not be God approved, but it does provide for paid staff to hired on the state level, plus the hiring of two field directors.   If one looks at his early endorsements, they came from southern and western states.  

Anyone at all familiar with State Party politics knows this represents a huge break through for local leaders who despair at the abandonment of the national party, and the inability to run campaigns for down ballot offices.  In concrete terms, we suffer from a dearth of candidates to move into statewide and federal offices....and there are areas where the Democratic Party is totally absent.

Ironically, in the Godstuff dept, Dean modeled his DFA plan on the Christian Coalition model which served as a nursery for far right candidates.  There has never been a strategy to counter this....and last year DFA, with the Dean Dozens, he was able to get elected, against any expectations, people who had never participated
in party politics before, least of all run for anything.

You know, I would respect the DLC a lot more if they could do something as basic as the most elementary oppo research on Dean, especially with regard to what he plans to do, rather than pull out an incoherent set of figures about moral values and Church attendance, and "Scram" cliches.  

Anyone who actually is familar with Dean...and his record, knows his appeal isn't ideologically based....his appeal is based on his ability to communicate Democratic values, make them attractive, and attract new people to the political process beyond merely voting.  

Please stop distorting Dean's record, stop sterotyping his supporters, and actually do some primary research which shows something tangiable besides a electronically distorted cheer at the Val-Aire ballroom.  It is the kind of easy snark which has nothing to do with Howard Dean, except the crowd of 3000 people cheering him forced him to strain his voice.  

Real Democrats in all areas of the country know and understand the appeal of Dean, and no amount of sour grapes on the part those who represent a historical legacy of failure in our party will change the reality of the crisis which has existed in our party since 2002.

Your order is rapidly fading...

by nanorich 2005-02-02 04:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Early celebration
Bravissimo! Well-put!
by DDenver 2005-02-02 04:19AM | 0 recs
You've posted this in a diary already and on dkos
Why are you posting this as a non responce to Chris's post?  I believe this is the second time?
by noalternative 2005-02-02 05:30AM | 0 recs
Dean as chair doesn't win the battle,
as far as I'm concerned, the battle hasn't even started yet.

I don't know well-suited Dean is for the particulars of the job, but I know that he's given a voice to millions of Americans who felt like they had none. If he can bring that spirit to the Dem party, THEN maybe the battle can start. Until now it's just been a kind of lay-down-in-front-of-the-bulldozers resistance effort.

Let the gnashing of teeth and character assassination begin. Again.

by catastrophile 2005-02-01 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean as chair doesn't win the battle,
Fantastic Post!!! We are simply picking a general.  Once he is chosen, it is time to bring the new war to the GOP!!!
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 04:01PM | 0 recs
Dean promised us
back before the election we would have a month off before we had to step back into the fray.

People who have been with him for the last couple of years know the battle isn't over...

the battle will never be over.  

But it would be really nice to win one...before we move on to next one.

by nanorich 2005-02-01 04:07PM | 0 recs
Rosenberg OUT, Roemer Likely So
I'm keeping things up to date over at the Burnt Orange Report with Byron.  Looks like Donnie will get his Two Man race soon enough.
by KTinTX 2005-02-01 02:38PM | 0 recs
I wonder about Donnie
he posted, by inference that Simon was out on his blog....yet another gaffe which makes seriously question his judgement.

Generally one waits for official announcement from an opponent before posting about it on blogs...

Before all this, I liked Donnie...thought he had a great future in the party, however his words and actions of the past couple of days...plus his not ready for prime time performance on Air America this AM are making me wonder about him.

by nanorich 2005-02-01 03:55PM | 0 recs
As much as I would love to party
about Howards election, I will wait until Feb 12. I would hate to be disappointed again.
by artr2 2005-02-01 02:45PM | 0 recs
I feel good
Since Nov 2nd, i feel good, I like what my party has been doing, getting Dean in atthe DNC is more than Icing, its renewal.

Let's recap a few things.

  1. Unlike in 2000, when the case was much stronger, we actually had some objections ot the vote on the house floor !

  2. Rice got herself a grillin' for chillin' over "historical memo's and torture.

  3. Abu Gonzales is looking to be about as popular as his predesessor, maybe worse. Dems look to be holding together to vote no. (come on Joe, you can do it !)

  4. Social Security destruction, looks like Dems are united in stopping it

  5. Getting a reformer into the DNC

  6. We fought and won the WA governorship

  7. Senate Dems got themselves a big "stick" war room

  8. We got out a rebuttal SOTU before the SOTU

  9. Dems are learning about message, and talking reform not ideology (for the most part)

If Kerry had eeked a win, we would all have thought the good ship was in great shape and gone marrily on our way. Losing has caused us to take a serious look at EVERYTHING, and fix it so that we can move forward to create a more permanent majority, and not just at the federal level, but local as well.

Now, if we can just avoid the rapture for the next 2 years, we might have a chance !

by Pounder 2005-02-01 02:51PM | 0 recs
What can Dean do about the Senate?
Sure Dean can revitalize the Party and bring in lots of money, but what's the use if the elected Democrats bow down and kiss Bush's ass?

My own Senators, Durbin and Obama voted for Rice. I could forgive Obama for racial loyalty, but what's Durbin's excuse?

Now Reid has called off a filibuster against Gonzales because 14 Senators would vote for him. I thought at the core, you only needed one Senator to filibuster, although two or three makes it much easier. So the Senate Minority leader de facto endorses The Torturer along with 14 Zell Millers.

If the Democratic Party supports the architect of the Iraq invasion and Torquemada for AG, then I no longer want anything to do with the Democratic Party. I've had it. I'm not going to waste my time and money working to elect Tweedledee instead of Tweedledum.

I gave my heart and soul to Dean, but I think he should have started a new Party. The entrenched interests will just use him as a Judas goat to get our support then screw him and us just like they did last year.

by antiHyde 2005-02-01 02:52PM | 0 recs
A message to rally around.
Opposition instead of appeasement. Mealy-mouthed Dems with fifteen different stances on an issue don't stand a chance against a unified Reep front in the House of Public Opinion, especially when the party leadership is siding with the other side. A strong message that people can get behind could mean real opposition. A genuine opposition figure like Dean as DNC chair may not be the whole solution, but it's a start.
by catastrophile 2005-02-01 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?
That might be true if the Democratic establishment weren't as restrained and well organized as a playground of six-year-olds.
by CT Lex 2005-02-01 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?
Actually what Reid called off was a procedural tabling, similiar to what they did to the conservative judges.  He called it off not because he doesn't want to go through with it, but because he won't get 41 votes to keep it running.  Reid has said he won't vote for Gonzales and thinks he will get about 30 or so others who will vote against Gonzo.  This is not a case of Reid chickening out, this is a case of not embarassing one self by trying a manuever that is GUARENTEED to fail (tabling the nomination).  I have no problem with that.  I think it is actually fairly prudent.  Believe me, if he had the 41 votes Gonzo would be gone.
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?
Well, yeah, you could filibuster with just 1 Senator, but unless you can sustain it with 40 votes, it's a silly exercise.

As for Rice & Gonzales, there's a world of difference.  You may disagree strongly with Bush's foreign policy (I certainly do), but no one Bush nominates for State would be better than Rice (unless you expect him to change his foreign policy any time soon).  Gonzales, on the other hand, advocates torture, and that is simply unacceptable.

Also, why the hell should racial loyalty have a bearing on this?  Maybe I'm just color-blind this way, but Durbin should get as much credit or blame for his votes as Obama.

by rtung 2005-02-01 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?
I don't think Antihyde meant he could excuse Obama because both are black.  He could excuse Obama because he is a freshman senator.
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?
Ok never mind, I mis-read his post...Yeah I agree with you on the racial thing...I don't think that has anything to do with Obama voting for Rice...I think he did because he was a freshman senator.
by yitbos96bb 2005-02-01 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: What can Dean do about the Senate?

We have a senate coposed of committed GOP-ers and of BUSH ENABLING DEMOCRATIC PARTY HYPOCRITES.

They give speeches complaining about Bush's policies and his nominees, but then go ahead and vote for them anway.

I have no respect for the majority of these spineless, cowardly, gutless, hypocrites who call themselves democrats.

I intend to waste my vote on every Green Party candidate I get the chance to vote for.

Topic of the day Hillary in 08 - another disaster waiting to happen, perfect fodder for the GOP - just exactly what we need to finish off the party for eternity.

by leschwartz 2005-02-01 05:32PM | 0 recs
Borking the non-Borkable
Unless the candidate in question has screwed up royal (Kerik?) the Senate's job is to approve.

To crash Condi's approval would just be infantile.  It would be sour grapes.  It would set the ugly precedent of Borking the non-Borkable post of Secretary of State.  Unless a SecState has come out pro-Holocaust or something equally untoward, what policy stance could they take the deserves a Borking?

Condi has done nothing worse than her president has asked her.  She has been a capable and loyal servant.

While we may not like who she serves, it hardly makes her unqualified to serve him.  Hell, as a Reagan-era Russia hand, Condi is perfect Bush material.  She's pro-war proactive.  

Bush's second term foreign policy will be "So, who's dumb enough to fuck with me now?!"  Changing from Colin to Condi is mandatory to send that message.

And, since it is Bush's message, and the America people voted for Bush (with the aid of a few computers), it is now the Senate's job to approve of Bush's best options for the post.

Can you even imagine the legion of Heritage Foundation mutants that would be dragged up should Rice fail?

by jcjcjc 2005-02-01 06:31PM | 0 recs
Time to Hit the Ground Running
Bush already will have rallies in at least North Dakota, Nebraska, and Florida by February 12. Bush is hoping to take shots at Democrat Senators there up for reelection. So Howard will get a warm welcome in California, Washington, Maryland and Illinois...but to take back the Capitol he's going to have to be ready to counteract this right away.
by risenmessiah 2005-02-01 02:56PM | 0 recs
kiss my...
When are John Kerry and the DNC loudmouths gonna stop by and kiss my ring?
by Carl Nyberg 2005-02-01 02:59PM | 0 recs
No fat lady yet.
I'm a die hard skeptic.

I will be overjoyed on the 13th should this hold up.

Now stop the victory dance and keep up the pressure.

by michael in chicago 2005-02-01 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: No fat lady yet.
Right on, michael. And don't forget those votes for Rice and Gonzales when Primary time comes around. There is absolutely no excuse for an Illinois Senator to vote for either one. What's next? Voting for Scalia as Chief Justice to avoid offending Italian-Americans? Well, I'm an Italian-American and Scalia on ANY court offends me!
by antiHyde 2005-02-01 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: No fat lady yet.
Check out this theory from Slate on why Dems should back Scalia for CJ:


The point he makes in that column relates to the Rice/Gonzalez confirmation debate, and the point is this: Governing is about making deals and picking fights you can win as often as it is about standing 100% firm on principle.

Complain. Excoriate. But LBJ needed to pass Civil Rights, FDR needed to pass the New Deal, and Woodrow Wilson had a lot of principle and no votes for the League of Nations.

(This is kind of a tongue in cheek argument, I admit... just trying to light a little impish spark in my Deanie euphoria.)

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: No fat lady yet.
A voice of reason......

Well said.

by donkeykong 2005-02-01 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: No fat lady yet.
Between Scalia and who....Judge Thomas? Yes, Scalia is law professorially consistent on his beliefs. He does end up writing some odd one man opinion when he refuses to toe the conservative line.

Also, replacing Rehnquist with a conservative isn't the "danger" if you will. The danger is having Priscilla Owen replace Sandra Day O'Connor or Anthony Kennedy with Bill Pryor.

But if Kerry were President or Al Gore...making Scalia the Chief Justice is not a BFD.

by risenmessiah 2005-02-01 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: No fat lady yet.
Nice screen name! I'm in IL-06 so I can relate.
by michael in chicago 2005-02-01 03:41PM | 0 recs
another italian-american..
....against scalia's confirmation checking in.  he's an intelligent guy, i'll give him that, but ideologically he is NOT balanced in any way, shape, or form.  
by annatopia 2005-02-01 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: another italian-american..
Annatopia, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the Slate article I linked above on why Dems should back Scalia for CJ.

I have the same visceral response as you, which makes the article even more interesting...

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 04:22PM | 0 recs
don't have time
.....to read it right now, but i promise i'll do so tomorrow and get back to you.
by annatopia 2005-02-01 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: don't have time
(btw...just tried to email you about the CDA thing at the address listed and it bounced back...i'll post on the first thread in your blog....thanks!)
by CT Lex 2005-02-01 05:26PM | 0 recs
by srolle 2005-02-01 03:56PM | 0 recs
I feel great
I am feeling very good now.  Dean did promise us that he would retake the party and then America.  We are on the way to do that right now.  I would expect Rosenburg to drop soon, Fowler may stick it out, but I think that between him and Dean, it is Dean in a landslide.  We will rebuild the party.  The difference between us and the Repugs is that we listen to our base and are a people- powered party.  Look what we in the blogosphere have done to get Gov. Dean elected as DNC Chair!!!
by Max Friedman 2005-02-01 04:29PM | 0 recs
You can't seriously quote Queer As Folk?
I agree it seems like the reformist are winning. And, I hope the resistance after this victory is not so great that it makes the present victory seem fake. But, OT, Still, I wish you hadn't quoted QAF- it's just bad television. Still I am looking forward to the new gay cabler if that ever happens. Back on topic, I think Dean and everyone else has their work cut out for them. It took decades to get here, and will probably take a decade to get out of this pit that we are in. But, if you are going to celebrate, may I suggest a black and tan.
by bruh21 2005-02-01 05:17PM | 0 recs
electing Howard Dean as...
"... chair can only be seen as the beginning of that process. In particular, the Democratic consultant aristocracy is still firmly entrenched. Dean can only open the door for us--walking through it is another matter enitrely."

Walking through that door is up to us. It consists of taking a seat on your local Democratic Committee. It consists of bloggers blogging and keeping a close eye, a shaming eye, on the abdicating media, it consists of us running for office or working for progressive candidates already out there running for office, it consists of us keeping the pressure on Reid and Pelosi and our various other elected officials. It consists of supporting Soon to be Chairman Dean in all his efforts.

Like you Chris, I see this as basically being over. Tip of the cap and a loud cheer for the other candidates but this appears done, baring a miracle in the coming 10 days.

On Feb. 12, assuming all goes according to plan, I will be making my first ever monetary contribution to the DNC shortly after the vote electing Dr. Dean as Chair.

Anyone care to join me?

by Andrew C White 2005-02-01 05:29PM | 0 recs
DNC Valentine
This is actually a very good idea and it's too bad you're buried way down the thread.  Put up a diary.

Assuming that it happens, how about we have two day drive, a celebration, to raise money in response to the election Howard Dean.  Our Great Big Valentine to the DNC?

It would show them we mean it, it would matter.

by James Earl 2005-02-01 06:18PM | 0 recs
Here is some music to celebrate with...

Howard Dean Remix

by Depth 2005-02-02 05:25AM | 0 recs
Re: electing Howard Dean as...
It's better than very good. It's brilliant.

Can we brand it? A blog-wide 'Join your local committee' drive? (we could keep a running count on all big blogs and include anyone who joined one since DFA '03)

Or a blog-wide 'First-time Contribution' Drive (maybe we could get everyone to donate $20.06 or some amount ending in .06...someone else's good idea)...

Let's build this excellent idea!!

by CT Lex 2005-02-01 06:31PM | 0 recs
Even Better
Man, put a good idea out there for a few minutes and somebody comes along and makes it even better.

Love the $20.06 idea.

It wouldn't just be a matter of the money, though the money matters.  It would be the number of donors and where the donors live.

Let's push this out into the rest of the world.

by James Earl 2005-02-01 06:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Even Better
The use of 'donor tags' ($20.06, etc.) was something I saw pop up during the primaries (we used it in Generation Dean for a youth fund drive), and it's great!--(but i can't take credit for the idea)...

How do we get Jerome to front-page the two ideas (a 'Join-your-local-committee Drive' and a 'New-Donor-Fund Drive') and what's the next step?

by CT Lex 2005-02-02 03:41AM | 0 recs
Whats next? Platform. and technology
Democrats need to define their platform themselves.

If Dean can form a party platform that plays well in  all or enough states to grand congressional viability and presenditial viability then he will be remembered as being succesful.

He has the credibility with the left to guide them away from the least popular of their views while using their excitement to force the right wings to get in line on some issues.

If he is pragmatic and able to keep the troops in line he may be able to make a difference.

Barring that what the Dems need is better use of technology and polling.  He can achieve that even if he is very unpopular.

by donkeykong 2005-02-01 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Whats next? Platform. and technology
Thank you you have been very helpful... now when are you going to Iraq
by Parker 2005-02-01 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Whats next? Platform. and technology
IF you are going to troll I am sure you can pick a more contraversial post of mine.

ITs not as if I am shy about stepping on toes.

by donkeykong 2005-02-01 05:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Whats next? Platform. and technology
I really want to know if you are going to Iraq?
by Parker 2005-02-01 06:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Whats next? Platform. and technology
What makes you think I am not already there?

Your point is that once you can force me to choose:

  1.  I am in the armed forces or have been etc.

  2.  I am not in the armed forces and chose not to be.

Then you can respond either:

1A)  You drank the kool-aid from boot camp.  I can't  argue with you baby killer.  You lack perspective on war because you have seen it.

2A)  You coward how dare you say there are times that wars are justified and then not rush to the front lines.

by donkeykong 2005-02-01 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Whats next? Platform. and technology
Who is the baby killer...mother killer and father killer.

You are the won ginned up to kill people in Iraq regardless of their age.

So, if you are in Iraq...how many people did you kill today?

by Parker 2005-02-02 03:25AM | 0 recs
Was Dr Dean elected?
Was Dr Deal elected? I thought he was selected--or soon will be--by a small number of party elite in a manner most Deaniacs would have sworn to be repulsive just one short year ago. In any case, his elevation would be fine with me. All along I've had the distinct feeling that Deaniacs, never really accepting such a total defeat in the Dem primaries, regarded this as a chance to get their own back.

That's okay. Whatever gets you through the night and all that. DNC Chairs normally don't have that much impact on party policy and I'm a bit surpised by how much attention this has gotten. [Of course, since the Dems hold so few offices of import, beggars can't be choosers. At least a Dem was guaranteed to win this race!]

I must say, though, that I'm a bit perplexed about why some bloggers think "the people" or "the grassroots" or "the netroots" [by which they invariably mean people like themselves] are now going to be running the party. I think these people may discover that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Anyway, as a partisan Dem I'll be rooting for Dr Dean to do well in...whatever it is he's going to be doing. At least he won't be running for president.

by The Bandit 2005-02-01 05:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Was Dr Dean elected?
Cynicism : it's the new black.
by CT Lex 2005-02-01 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Was Dr Dean elected?
You, as a "partisan Dem" (whatever that means) exemplify exactly why Dr. Dean is needed in this Party. You won't even know what I mean by that, I'll bet, but it's true.

The fact you say you'll be "rooting for Dr. Dean" at the end really drips with your cynical disingenuousness.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if you're really just a Repub trolling around here. Your post sure seems that way. Easy to tear everything down, with not a clue as to what positive direction the party should take.

If you really are ever were a Dem, we're better off without you. Your kind of "support" would do us more good behind the Repubs.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 03:20AM | 0 recs
Those are the Deaniacs I remember
All right! If you're not a slavish acolyte of Dr Dean you must Republican troll/spy/maggot! That's the Deaniac contempt for the rest of humanity I recall from the primaries. [I was a John Kerry guy from the start--even when it looked hopeless.] After donating over $2500 and more hours than I care to recall to local and national Dems, it's always nice to be called Republican by somoene who knows nothing about me. It's just like one year ago at DailyKos.

Anyway, I always tried very hard to distinguish between Dr Dean himself for the uncivilized and intolerant behavior of some of his followers. And for the sake of American liberalism and the Democratic party, I wish him well. Whether you believe it or not.

So there.

by The Bandit 2005-02-02 04:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Those are the Deaniacs I remember
BAH! You just put a lot of words in my post that weren't there. I called you no such thing, so come down off your cross. You obviously had a problem with 'Deaniacs' long before my post which you yourself say - "That's the Deaniac contempt for the rest of humanity I recall from the primaries." - oh, really?

So you're really a Dem? Then you should show the civility to be a good loser and join in supporting the man who will now lead the Party forward, rather than continuing to snarl at Deaniacs. Howard and the DFA movement did that for Kerry in the general elections, and this is the thanks we get from the likes of yourself now? Instead, we get what you call 'support' wrapped in derision and bitterness in what you posted.

LOL. You got the flame you trolled for. And now listen to you. If your sarcastic and cynical original post wasn't intended to antagonize, what was the point?

No further feeding for this troll. We've got to move forward.

You're welcome.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 04:27AM | 0 recs
I think you should calm down
before you bust a blood vessel.

Be a good loser? Are you referring to November 2, 2004? I lost that day and it still stings and I'm not really keen on being a good loser if doing so means cuddling up to the Republican party. And that's always what it seems to mean.

If you're referring to the race for DNC Chair, I haven't lost anything so it'll be difficult to be a good loser. I haven't opposed Dr Dean for that post and no one asked for my opinion anyway. I don't really care who is DNC Chair since I don't think it is a very important position. If Dr Dean wants the job and gets more votes from the tiny electorate than any of the other candidates, he's welcome to the job as far as I'm concerned.

Since the first, second and third duties of the DNC Chair are raising money, I hope he does as good a job raising it for the party as he did for his own campaign. If he does, we'll all be grateful for his interest in a very thankless job.

by The Bandit 2005-02-02 05:09AM | 0 recs
Please tell us about
your particular experience inside the institutional Democratic Party.

Have you ever worked on a campaign staff?

Have you ever volunteered on a regular basis to work for a campaign?

Are you a member of a Democratic Club?

Have you ever personally phonebanked or canvassed for a candidate?

Have you ever attended as a delegate or volunteer at a state party convention?

Have you ever run for office?

If your eyes just glazed over at the above questions, clearly you aren't terribly interested in the problems which have been manifest inside the Democratic Party with regard to party building.....and how the party actually works on the ground up.

What Dean represents on two levels is the first time in about twenty years, a huge force for institutional change in the party appartatus which decentralizes power from the top down, and addresses local concerns by allowing State Parties to function on an on-going basis, rather from election cycle to election cycle.

On a national level, Dean also represents a voice for constructive opposition to the an increasingly dangerous Republican party.  

And to correct your assumption regarding what the mission of the DNC is....

the DNC represents the Democratic Party

and its primary job is to elect Democrats, and bring about a Democratic majority at all levels of electoral politics.

by nanorich 2005-02-02 05:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Please tell us about

Have you ever worked on a campaign staff?
ANSWER: Yes, many times in Maryland, where I live.

Have you ever volunteered on a regular basis to work for a campaign?
ANSWER: I have volunteered for every Dem prez candidate since 1988. During the primaries, I worked in Maryland for Al Gore in 1988 and 2000, for Bill Clinton in 1992, and for John Kerry in 2004.

Are you a member of a Democratic Club?

Have you ever personally phonebanked or canvassed for a candidate?
ANSWER: Yes, on numerous occasions. That last time was 2004, for John Kerry.

Have you ever attended as a delegate or volunteer at a state party convention?
ANSWER: Yes, I've volunteered at a Maryland Democratic party convention.

Have you ever run for office?

Now, I have one question for you. DId I pass your test? Do I still get to be a Democrat? I sure hope so because I know you're in charge of this stuff now.

by The Bandit 2005-02-02 05:57AM | 0 recs
I know what the DNC is for.
I wrote about what Dr Dean's job as DNC Chair will be. I'm absolutely correct.

As for all the decentralizing and people-empowering stuff Dr Dean is going to do...Well, we'll see. If you and the many people at this site and DailyKos really believe Dr Dean is going to revolutionize politics [for the better], well, it's great to believe something like that.

We'll see. Call it cynicism if you like. Most people I know refer to it as experience.

by The Bandit 2005-02-02 06:01AM | 0 recs
Another thought occurs.
What are these reforms I've been reading so much about? Been reading a lot about reforms and all the exciting reforms Dr Dean is going to bring to the party once he is DNC Chair. Yeah, yeah, getting rid of Iowa and New Hampshire as the first primary contests. Anything else? Anything that will, you know, actually help the Dems win an important election?
by The Bandit 2005-02-01 05:47PM | 0 recs
it is really easy to find out all by yourself.

Learning how to do primary research not all that difficult.  

You might start at the Democracy for America Web site which has all the information conveniently available with the click of the mouse.

by nanorich 2005-02-01 06:13PM | 0 recs
Yeah, I've had a look
and I see a lot of ideas for what ordinary Dems can do, but not much on how Dr Dean is going to transform the Dems into a winning party. Of course, I don't blame Dr Dean for that since it isn't the job of a DNC Chair. His job will be more of a manager and, of course, fundraiser. For the next four years Dr Dean's job won't be to come up with clever ideas for Dem candidates, it will be to help raise money for Dem candidates. He's a moneyman schmoozer now. I'm glad he wants the job because it is pretty thankless.
by The Bandit 2005-02-02 04:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, I've had a look
LOL... your support is underwhelming...

Yeah, just sit back now and demand to know what Dr Dean and others are going to do...

Thinking that all DNC Chairs do is raise money is more of the "old school" Dem thinking that has landed us where we are today.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 05:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah, I've had a look
Try harder.

Look better.

by nanorich 2005-02-02 06:58AM | 0 recs
The scream meme drives me nuts.  What it was all about was "proof" that Dean had no real political skills -- being governor of a little backwater state just doesn't count.  Hmmm.

Seems to me that getting a substantial chunk of support from regional party leaders from all over the nation after being up against some practiced national pols proves that this guy knows how to play the game.  

Dean's smart, articulate, and nobody's fool.  That's good.  What's bad is that the media who played the scream story up are going to be after him -- still and forever.

Meanwhile, what happens to Judy's practice?

by Bean 2005-02-01 06:04PM | 0 recs
The Scream
Don't worry about that.  We are going to turn The Scream around, it's going to be a positive.
by James Earl 2005-02-01 06:21PM | 0 recs
I was (initially) for Frost,
but feel comfortable with Dean as well. I wish him success in his difficult task. Most probably - it will take time, so i am not especially optimistic about 2006 (especially - Congress. Governorships and state legilatures are quite another matter). We shall see the fruits of his work about 2008. And we should participate ourselves - in different roles: from analysts to candidates..
by smmsmm 2005-02-01 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: I was (initially) for Frost,
I think you hit it right on the head. We need to get involved ourselves, and that is really a key part of Dr. Dean's message.

We need to get involved at the local level, whether helping our local party organizations (not taking them over, but working with them on the same team), or possibly even by running for local elections ourselves. Each individual has to assess what it is they can do, and then get in the mix and start working.

That's what makes the DFA movement truly 'grassroots.' And it's what will bring the Democratic Party back to its roots: community organizing, labor organizing, people talking to their neighbors/families/friends to get them on board.

It won't happen over night, living in this cable-tv 'observer' culture we now live in, but we can build it and once people feel the power it will gain more momentum. I think Dr. Dean understands this, and has the patience and fortitude to stick to the course. I hope more Dems like you will see that we can all join together, even if Dr. Dean wasn't your first choice.

Whether or not we can make inroads in 2006 is up in the air. A lot will depend on events which no one can easily control. But let's start there. If we want to have a chance in 2008, there's no time to lose.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 03:51AM | 0 recs
Celebration Time? Come On!
Many of us Deansters in Florida still meet up for pizza every Thursday night, at least in Gainesville. Looks like tomorrow night will be our best Pizza and Pitchers Night in a year.

A year ago this week we were knocking on doors in Charleston, followed by a year of disappointments. Now we're ready to kick some butt. Question: How can we modify our old Dean banners and use them one more time?

by Fisherman 2005-02-02 05:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Celebration Time? Come On!
We have a DFA Meetup tonight. Last month, so many people came that we ran out of chairs. Also, the State Party Chair was there. Though she didn't commit to Dr Dean that night (he wasn't officially running yet), I have no doubt that she could see that if the Dem Party was going to get something going at this point in advance of midterm elections, it wasn't going to come from the same-old party structures and strategies, and people sitting on their butts and grousing.

Even though we won in WI in Nov, it was by a hair again. There's no reason we can't turn the state into a solid blue state for the future and free up resources for some of the other states next time around. DFA people working with the rest of the traditional Dem coalition of Labor, minorities, women's rights groups, and others will show we are the real majority.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 05:48AM | 0 recs
Some Good Reading
http://NYT.com has an excellent article on the progress of the DNC Chair race (site requires reg):

""It's a fait accompli, it's over: Dean's going to be it," said Gerald McEntee, head of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, who runs the umbrella political organization for all the unions in the A.F.L.-C.I.O."

"There were few Democrats in Washington who doubted that Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, was on the verge of taking over the party, with the support of much, though certainly not all, of its establishment. Democrats marveled at how someone who had been viewed as a symbol of some of the excesses of the party - Mr. McEntee described Dr. Dean as "nuts" after he withdrew his endorsement of him in the middle of the presidential campaign - was now on the brink of becoming a face of the opposition to President Bush."

Looks like "the Doctor is in." Of course, we'll believe it when the final vote is counted.

by DDenver 2005-02-02 06:34AM | 0 recs


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