The Number Isn't 2,000

News outlets are now reporting that the number of American military fatalities in Iraq has reached 2,000. However, to focus only on the American and military fatalities as a result of the American-led invasion of Iraq would be a mistake. Here are some other numbers: The number is not 2,000. It is way beyond 2,000. Even without the Iraqi civilian fatalities, the occupation has cost the lives of at least 5,979 people (again, most of whom are Iraqis). It has also caused tens of thousands of people to become wounded.

So yeah, by the lowest count possible, the number of deaths in Iraq reached 2,000 today. That, however, should not be the only number we are counting.

All the names must be collected. All of the dead must be remembered.

Tags: World (all tags)



thanks for making this point
so clearly

And the estimates of deaths from the overall conditions of the war were 100,000 in the months after the invasion -- that's 100,000 dead people who not be dead had it not been for the war, and that was a long time ago.

by Tom Kertes 2005-10-25 09:46AM | 0 recs
yeah but we dont care about everyone else
Who cares how many Iraqis died?  

We only care about Americans.

by dayspring 2005-10-25 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: yeah but we dont care about everyone else

"A Dossier on Civilian Casualties in Iraq, 2003-2005" is the first detailed account of all non-combatants reported killed or wounded during the first two years of the continuing conflict. The report, published by Iraq Body Count in association with Oxford Research Group, is based on comprehensive analysis of over 10,000 media reports published between March 2003 and March 2005.
Findings include:
Who was killed?

    * 24,865 civilians were reported killed in the first two years.
    * Women and children accounted for almost 20% of all civilian deaths.
    * Baghdad alone recorded almost half of all deaths.

When did they die?

    * 30% of civilian deaths occurred during the invasion phase before 1 May 2003.
    * Post-invasion, the number of civilians killed was almost twice as high in year two (11,351) as in year one (6,215).

Who did the killing?

    * US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
    * Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
    * Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.
    * Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.

What was the most lethal weaponry?

    * Over half (53%) of all civilian deaths involved explosive devices.
    * Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths.
    * Children were disproportionately affected by all explosive devices but most severely by air strikes and unexploded ordnance (including cluster bomblets).

How many were injured?

    * At least 42,500 civilians were reported wounded.
    * The invasion phase caused 41% of all reported injuries.
    * Explosive weaponry caused a higher ratio of injuries to deaths than small arms.
    * The highest wounded-to-death ratio incidents occurred during the invasion phase.

Who provided the information?

    * Mortuary officials and medics were the most frequently cited witnesses.
    * Three press agencies provided over one third of the reports used.
    * Iraqi journalists are increasingly central to the reporting work.

Speaking today at the launch of the report in London, Professor John Sloboda, FBA, one of the report's authors said: "The ever-mounting Iraqi death toll is the forgotten cost of the decision to go to war in Iraq. On average, 34 ordinary Iraqis have met violent deaths every day since the invasion of March 2003. Our data show that no sector of Iraqi society has escaped. We sincerely hope that this research will help to inform decision-makers around the world about the real needs of the Iraqi people as they struggle to rebuild their country. It remains a matter of the gravest concern that, nearly two and half years on, neither the US nor the UK governments have begun to systematically measure the impact of their actions in terms of human lives destroyed.

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-10-25 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: yeah but we dont care about everyone else

I wanted to echo your highlighted findings of "Explosive Devices".

I could 99% assure you that these explosives are from the Al Qaqaa weapons depot that we failed to guard properly.

As a reminder, the unmovic report published 2 reports, one of them concluded:

"According to an Iraqi letter to the IAEA, facilities such as Al Qaqaa have identified the missing explosives as roughly 194.7 metric tons of HMX, 141.2 metric tons of RDX, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN."

by ArousedNewsJulienDavid 2005-10-25 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: yeah but we dont care about everyone else
There another dimension too. The towelheads are loading up IEDs anywhere. So a trooper shaking hands with the locals is looking at them like they've got a fuze sticking out of them.  The HMX you're referring to can be stuck in anything, and not only will it blow up an old shell buried in the middle of the road, it will blow up a baby carriage and take out everything in its path.

Because most of the people that read this blog are political, we should state the obvious: IEDs are the number one problem in shutting down Al Qaeda in Iraq. Yes, they weren't there when we got there. Yes, we're creating all kinds of worry. Nevertheless we should be all about kicking Al Qaeda arse and the prime focus of our Military should be fixing that IED problem pronto. If we had to repeat it three times, heck, it wouldn't be enough. You can roar through town on a bradley all you like but its those cellphones that detonate a box of stuff left right next to the green zone that are causing the trouble, not some roadblock or gauntlet you need to run.

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-10-25 01:44PM | 0 recs
Kid's right
The wounded are even worse. The count for wounded discounts any of a number of different things not related to 'combat'. Only problem is, according to a friend of mine fighting over there, almost everyone you see is firing at you. So if a woman pulls up and whips out a 45 or something, its not 'combat'.
by turnerbroadcasting 2005-10-25 10:27AM | 0 recs
"All of the dead must be remembered. "
Remembered? Or celebrated?

Your logic goes like this: Let's ruminate over the suffering, withdraw and give the country to Al Qaeda so that the Chimp will look bad.

I don't like Bush either, but have you forgotten who the real bad guys are?

The ones who intentionally kill civilians and want to forcefully take the world back to the Middle Ages?

Oh, yes, war is horrible. Our soldiers die. Their soldiers die. Innocent people who are just in the wrong place die.

But that doesn't mean the cause was wrong.

The US and Britain killed 2,000,000 civilians in World War II. The US lost nearly half a million soldiers.

If Iraq was wrong because of the death and suffering the war has caused, wasn't World War II REALLY WRONG?

Why not?

War is horrible. But in Iraq's case, so was peace.

Saddam's peace. Saddam killed nearly 300,000 of his own people while "at peace."

We ended his peace. With war.

I'm proud of that.

Yes, war is terrible.

But we can acknowledge that without saying let the monsters win.

That is why you can live where you do, and type on a computer for living.

by John Rogers 2005-10-25 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: "All of the dead ... "
Yes, World War II most certainly was wrong.  Britain and the U.S. did not start World War II, though--Germany did by invading Poland when it had explicitly said it would not, and when Britain had explicitly said it would defend Poland.  Hitler was an agressor who attempted to conquer Europe, while Tojo tried to take Asia and Mussolini Africa.  The role of the US and Britain (and Australia, and Canada, and China, and India, and the USSR, and the Resistance, and...) was to prevent Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo from taking over the world.  

Nobody has ever had any fear that Saddam Hussein would conquer the world.  He was swatted down when he tried to take Kuwait in 1990--that was enough to permanently disable his military machine and allow the U.N. to go in and verify that he didn't have any WMDs.  Which, as the inspectors repeatedly pointed out, he did not.  The inspectors' only complaint was that he would (or could) not provide them all the paperwork they wanted to be 100% certain of it.

There wouldn't have been a fucking war if Bush and Blair hadn't started it.  Sheesh.

by Flynnieous 2005-10-25 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: "All of the dead ... "
Yes, World War II most certainly was wrong.


Nobody has ever had any fear that Saddam Hussein would conquer the world.  He was swatted down when he tried to take Kuwait in 1990-

So you supported that war? Saddam subsequently violated all of the terms of the ceasefire and slaughtered the Kurds. Does that bother you?

by John Rogers 2005-10-26 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: All of the dead must be remembered.
There are plenty of genocides to go around.  What about Darfur?  

Don't use that ridiculous argument that Saddam had to be stopped from killing his own people because that was NOT the sales pitch for the war.

Moreover, Iraq is in the hands of Al Quaeda now.  I've written this numerous times on MyDD:

The administration thought they could take and hold Iraq.  They were right about the first part, dead wrong about the 2nd.  Military strategy dictates that when your base/armaments is in risk of falling into enemy hands you must scuttle them.  The NeoCons are scuttling Iraq.  They cannot hold it so they sought to sow the seeds of civil war and break up the country.

The first elections were the catalyst for civil war.  You know, that purple finger bs.  

Now, the Iraqi Constitution effectively creates 3 nation-states divided by religo-ethnic lines.  

In a year or two from now, there won't even be an Iraq and Al Quaeda's network will have a new place (or 3 new places) to call home...

yeah, job done.

by dayspring 2005-10-25 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: All of the dead must be remembered.
Moreover, Iraq is in the hands of Al Quaeda now.

Then why can't they win an election?

I mean...they can't even register a blip above background noise in support.

Most Iraqis - in the center of the Arab World - hate Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda no longer looks like Arab eyes, they are nothing but head-chopping terrorists.

In 2001, Osama could have won elections in most of the Arab World.

No longer.

Mission accomplished.  

by John Rogers 2005-10-26 06:19AM | 0 recs
bravo chris
just bravo.
by annatopia 2005-10-25 10:51AM | 0 recs
two more secrets
I'm a mathematician who does some research work with Veterans Administration (VA) medical researchers, and the two following under-reported "secrets" seem well-known to them:

  1. Due to the use of body armor, the number of fatalities in this war is much lower than usual - and the number of polytrauma casualties is much MUCH higher. Polytrauma is basically guys who lose, for example, two limbs and their face to an explosion. Pre-body armor, they would have been dead; now they are just crippled for life.

  2. For related reasons, many more wounded are making it back to the hospital in Germany or the US before dying - meaning they die from their wounds, but since it's not "on the field" they aren't counted in the total casualties for Iraq.

Naturally, I can't document either of these claims, but they are plausible.
by spandrel 2005-10-25 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: two more secrets
I think #2 has been debunked over at dailykos.  It would just be impossible to hide that happening if it were in numbers even close to significant.  Everyone knows someone.  And the casualty lists include names of those who died in Germany.

I really do want to know how many Iraqi soldiers died.  I think a lot of them were just victims of Saddam.

by tunesmith 2005-10-25 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: two more secrets
Me too. Iraqi soldiers looked like they took off and ran when we marched into Bagdad.  And then it appears they're out there getting enlisted into the Iraqi SF. But nobody knows the count.

For some reason, the Mil. is not giving us a good body count of the Iraqis killed or wounded and we always seem to get this "suspected terrorists" -
Just speaking as a citizen, I'd say that ours is not to reason why but I'd still want to know the count  - thanks for making the point.

PS. Afghanistan is turning out ok, I could care less how dark the situation is in Iraq, if we can get things quieted down like A. everyone including the iraqis will sleep better regardless of pullout or not + I just wanted to say that I truly believe the truth will get us there and lies will get us killed.

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-10-25 02:11PM | 0 recs
Seriously wounded
One thing that really deserves a lot more publicity is the number medically evacuated and not returned to duty, which I believe is well over 20,000 by now. keeps track of US military evacuated and not returned to duty within 72 hours.  I suspect the majority of those are serious injuries and never return.

I recently read that the level of violence - number of attacks, number of wounded, etc. - in Iraq is fairly similar to what it was in Vietnam.  The big difference is that we're a lot better at responding quickly and saving lives of people who are seriously injured, and who if they had suffered the same injury in Vietnam, would have died.  So instead of tens of thousands of dead, we're gonna come out of this war with tens of thousands of living people who are missing limbs, eyes, other vital organs, or severly disfigured, or in some way not able to return to the same kind of life or job they would have had.

It's great that we can save them, but it's not as if nothing happened to them just because they didn't die.

by cos 2005-10-25 11:30AM | 0 recs
I hadn't realized...
the number of contractors and journalists killed was that high.  Thanks for the post!
by IrnBru001 2005-10-25 12:00PM | 0 recs
According to the spokesperson for the
...multinational American-led force, Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, the death count is just "an artifical mark on the wall" by all of us with "ulterior motives."

I'm sure that makes the families feel better.  I know that warms my heart.

by Tenacious T 2005-10-25 12:21PM | 0 recs
The war on terror
An additional 246 Americans have been killed in Afghanistan.  The number of American wounded was over 15,000 in Iraq and 583 in Afghanistan.  The number of Afghan and Iraqt wounded are obviously much larger.
by David Kowalski 2005-10-25 01:00PM | 0 recs
Chris , just re-reading your post
First, I have to say, like a soldier, posts like this really do help us. Thank you.

They are never numbers. They are always real people and each one has a story to tell.

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-10-25 02:17PM | 0 recs
And for those NYers who have forgotten
by concernednyer2005 2005-10-25 07:34PM | 0 recs
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