ASDC Chair Meeting

The ASDC is meeting on a conference call this morning to consider the recomendation by the Executive Committee that Fowler be endorsed by the State Chairs. The Chairs will vote up or down on whether to accept the plurality recommendation. I've gotten word on the main backers of Fowler in yesterday's ASDC meeting. They were Mark Brewer (who didn't have a vote), Carol Khare, Amy Burks, Barbara Allen, Ray Buckley, and Merideth Smith.

Here are a few notes related to those individuals. Mark Brewer, is the Party Chair of Michigan, and the President of the ASDC. This past Friday, Brewer was served notice that the DNC will begin an audit of the Presidential finances that were spent during the 2004 Kerry Michigan campaign, managed by Donnie Fowler.  Reportedly, Brewer refused the DNC, so this is developing amidst Brewer's push of Fowler. Also backing Fowler yesterday was Carol Khare, from South Carolina, whom is a business partner of Don Fowler Sr; Amy Burks of Alabama and Barbara Allen of North Carolina are longtime allies of Fowler Sr (It's unclear how Allen was able to vote, not being on the ASDC executive committee); Ray Buckley of New Hampshire (whom is vocally anti-Dean); and Meredith Smith, of Oregon, who voted to back Fowler over Dean.

In the second round of voting, 3 supporters from Frost and Rosenberg (I've gotten conflicting info on who they were) backed Fowler to give him an 8-6 advantage over Dean.

Update: The Chairs and Vice Chairs rejected the recommendation of the Executive Committee to back Fowler. They then did a roll-call vote, which Dean won:

             The ASDC ballot                    Endorsements
             (state chairs and vice chairs)     (public DNC members)

Dean         56                                 49
Fowler       21                                  9
Frost         5                                 15
Roemer        3                                  4
Rosenberg     3                                  4
Webb          3                                 10
Leyland       0                                  2
Abstain       5 
That's 58% for Dean on the first ballot among the 96 ASDC Chairs and Vice Chairs that voted (Hotline); alongside Dean's continued backing within the DNC At-Large Members (and Labor is rumored to be next on board), Dean's in the homestrech and leading all alone.

Update II: The Oregon DNC Member delegation supports Dean for Chair. Blogger & DNC Member Jenny Greenleaf has posted a note about the Oregon delegation on The American Street (PR to follow). This includes Meredith Smith of the ASDC Executive Committee, who is now on board with Dean. That's 5 more votes for Dean.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)

Comments

151 Comments

The plot thickens...
by Parker 2005-01-31 05:33AM | 0 recs
Donnie did not manage that money
He talked about that earlier this month.  He was the Kerry campaign manager, not in charge of the  coordinated campaign.  In fact it would have been illegal for him to manage that money.  That is the way campaign finance laws work.

Donnie talked about this weeks ago, here at mydd and on his website.  

I know one campaign is moving this around to anyone that will listen. The internet is a great place to spread false oppo research though.

by fightforamerica 2005-01-31 05:44AM | 0 recs
Hmmm...
So Little Donnie has baggage after all...
by Parker 2005-01-31 05:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmm...
I can think of more than 45 million reasons that it is laughable for Dean supporters to talk about fiscal mismanagement.
by fightforamerica 2005-01-31 10:32AM | 0 recs
why would someone who fixes a vote not break the l
Gosh, illegal.  No one would ever do something ILLEGAL, would they?  Especially not a former lobbyist who lies about being a lobbyist/grassroots reformer and fixes votes.
by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-31 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
As I understand it (this is from a campaign staffer with good connections in the MI party), the problem is that the MI campaign went $1,000,000 over budget. And most of THAT can be attributed to one problem--the fact that 18 GOTV vans--vans that fell under Fowler's management--disappearaed. Kappoof! 18 vans, and $1,000,000 of our money. There are also totally unsubstantiated rumors that at least one staffer took a junket to Paris on our campaign money.

All while I was working my ass off here in MI.

by emptywheel 2005-01-31 08:08AM | 0 recs
18 vans??
ok, that's bad.  did they ever turn up or are they still missing?  i guess they're missing if yall got bill a million bucks.

ouch, someone should lose their job over that one.

by annatopia 2005-01-31 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
Can you provide a source for that claim? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but a google search didn't reveal anything...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
I heard it from someone who has close connections in the MI party. As I understand it, national media is beginning to research the story, but most everyone here in MI is not talking.
by emptywheel 2005-01-31 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
ohhhh let's get the drudge red light going!!!!

developing.......

by fightforamerica 2005-01-31 01:22PM | 0 recs
Google knows all
And Google knows nothing about this.  I smell bullshit.
by Geotpf 2005-01-31 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Google knows all
Now Google is catching up.
by emptywheel 2005-02-01 06:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
i bet they drove it to paris, too.

the internet is a great place to spread false stories.

by fightforamerica 2005-01-31 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie did not manage that money
They were stolen by God, Gays and Guns republicans....The SBVFT coordinated the robbery and they were used to bring the pre-marked Bush ballots to Florida and Ohio.
by yitbos96bb 2005-01-31 11:04AM | 0 recs
Question For Matt Stoller
Matt,

Please enlighted us on who you think will endorse Simon Rosenberg this week.

What's going on with Rosenberg and the ASDC ... do they perceive Simon as too much inside the beltway and not enough outside the beltway in the states?

Are you content to let Donnie Fowler do an early flameout?

Simon is an inside the beltway guy ... who you going to get to come to your 1/31/05 fundraiser in DC?

Answer the questions or I am going to keep coming at you.

Democratic Dad

Democratic Dad

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 05:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Question For Matt Stoller
DD,

I'll see what I can find out.  Everything's moving very fast.

by Matt Stoller 2005-01-31 06:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Question For Matt Stoller
Thanks. We will be waiting!
by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 06:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Question For Matt Stoller
My hunch is that the ABDs will move to Rosenberg. The labor endorsement will be very interesting.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-31 09:05AM | 0 recs
Amazing!
A bunch of politicians playing politics!  Who woulda believed?  Seriously, I find this report very disappointing.  I had been giving the DNC the benefit of the doubt - assuming they would try very hard to pick the person best qualified to reorganize the party to compete in the 21st century.  But, politicians will be politicians.
by Sacramentohop 2005-01-31 05:49AM | 0 recs
Impatient NY'er wants to know...
What time is the conference call at, and any idea of when we'll know what they're going to do?

I had expected all this backroom maneuvering to be coming from Frost, not Fowler. Personally, I don't like the way this smells.

by sneemteam 2005-01-31 05:54AM | 0 recs
Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC
Friends ... looks like Simon is the netroots champion here.

See the latest message to his supporters.

**********
Statement from Simon Rosenberg, January 31, 2005:

"I am pleased to have had the opportunity to present my record and my vision for the Party to the executive committee of the ASDC this weekend.  Throughout this campaign, I have been encouraged by the depth and thoughtfulness of the conversation DNC members are holding about the future of our Party.

It is clear today that the recommendation of the ASDC was achieved with only a plurality, but not a majority of committee members.  With a majority of the committee - 11 of the 19 - voting against the eventual recommendation or abstaining from the final vote, it is clear that there is no consensus candidate of the chairs at this time.

As such, while I have great admiration and respect for the executive committee, I hope that the broader group of state chairs voting today will vote against their recommendation and instead recommend an open process where all 447 voting members of the DNC will have the chance to choose on February 12th from the 7 strong candidates who are running.

I plan to fight on for the leadership of the Party I love.  I believe I am the Party's best choice for DNC chair, the only candidate who has the complete package for what we need today - chief executive experience, a history of winning in the red states, deep understanding of the new media tools of 21st century politics, a strong connection to the emerging grassroots/netroots culture so critical to our future, and the capacity and relationships to bring our diverse Party together so we can fight and win in all fifty state and six territories each and every day.  I look forward to continuing to make my case to the vast majority of DNC members who have not yet decided their vote."

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 05:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC
Did I miss something or did ...Rosenberg get ONE vote.
by Parker 2005-01-31 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC
I give Rosenberg a lot of credit for running a straightforward campaign and not bashing his opponents. I missed the basis for your conclusion that Rosenberg is the netroots champion. Why do you think he has an edge on Dean as far as netroot issues go?
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-31 09:08AM | 0 recs
"plurality"
Let's be honest here... I'm a Dean backer, but Fowler did get a majority, when all was said and done.  A majority of people on the committee prefer Fowler to Dean, period.  There's no getting around it... not a plurality.  It's correct to say that Dean has a plurality of the votes when it comes to "first-choice".  However, when the question is asked, "Who do you prefer?  Fowler or Dean?"  A MAJORITY (and I hate all-caps) prefer Fowler.  Fowler, in no way, shape, or form... has a plurality of votes.

NCDem

by NCDem 2005-01-31 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
It was an anti-Dean second vote.
by Parker 2005-01-31 06:06AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
Yes, but a rose by any other name is still a rose.

I'm not fan of Fowler either, but the fact is he did get a majority of the votes cast.

by DemDog 2005-01-31 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
Well...but... Rosenberg's note says that there were 19 voting members. Fowler ended up with 8 votes on the second tally. That is not a majority of the total possible voting members, merely a plurality. Yes, he got the recommendation but that is hardly overwhelming and my expectation is that it will be rejected by the larger ASDC... that instead they will do their own individual state by state and perhaps even person by person endorsements. Dean already has some of these people so we know it's not a lock for Fowler.
by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
Now this new definition that you're trying to push is just silly.  It's useless to talk about a majority of "total possible voting members".  This means zilch, nada, nothing.  Given your definition, no member of congress, senate, state house representative,  state senators, president, city council member, dog catcher in the history of voting has ever received a majority total possible voting members.  When we talk about a "majority"... we talk about a majority of votes.  period.  So yes, you're technically correct.  

"Donnie Fowler didn't get a majority of the possible votes if everyone had bothered to vote so it's technically a plurality of the possible votes because everyone didn't vote."  What a useless definition.  At this point, we're getting a bit ridiculous.  

Donnie Fowler got a majority of the votes.  period, and if the trend continues and people abstain, he's still going to get a majority of the votes and be running the DNC, much to my dismay.  

by NCDem 2005-01-31 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
uh... ok.
by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
You are kidding right. If this report is accurate, you must be. Plurality or not, it's sounding shady about how he got his majority. This should bother you. There is a thing called conflict of interest (again assuming the info is correct above).  At the very least some of these people shouldn't have been voting or abstained based on the potential for self dealing.
by bruh21 2005-01-31 06:10AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
No, I am not "kidding", and considering the unfair thrashing MyDD received about supposed "conflicts of interest" and "shady dealings" with the real plurality candidate (Dean)... I am going to reserve judgement on the "Fowler Democrats", and acknowledge that there is a significant anti-Dean movement out there, and it manifested itself in this committee's vote... There's nothing more to it than that... nothing shady until proven otherwise.  

n

by NCDem 2005-01-31 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
8 votes out of 19 votes are supposedly representative of the entire ASDC.

So these eight votes are to tell over ONE HUNDRED members that they should voter for Fowler.... something is not quite right.

by Parker 2005-01-31 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
I made it clear in my post that we don't know if the report by the diarist above is true. This is what my making the "assuming" phrase means. I also stated that no one can credibly look at this situation and say what you just posted which is what I was responding to- what you posted which seemed to ignore the parts that bothered you. Someone truly objective wouldn't ignore the report. The legitimate response would be to say let's find out.  

This is what objective people do- they hear a report and they find out if it is true. They don't say I heard a report, and I am going to assume it is not true. They don't say you are kidding yourself or let's call it for Fowler because he got a majority, not a plurality.

by bruh21 2005-01-31 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
If you re-read my initial post above... It described the definition of a plurality, and the definition of a majority, and the fact that Dean, technically, is the plurality candidate, and Fowler, technically, is the majority candidate... nothing more

to which you replied, "Are you kidding?"...

which doesn't make sense, so I replied, "No".

Then I went on to address your change of subject... (no longer talking about grammar)...
which I obviously didn't address to your satisfaction.

so I shall address that again, now by saying the following...  

I agree with you 100 percent.

by NCDem 2005-01-31 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
it's not a change of subject to talk about the main thrust of the diary versus you getting hung up on the word plurality.
by bruh21 2005-01-31 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
plus... this was mostly just a continuation of my nit-picking Jerome's word-choice (though I think his word-choice was a deliberate misuse this time) and not much more than that.
by NCDem 2005-01-31 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
Jerome did not say it Rosenberg did
by Parker 2005-01-31 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
Then Rosenberg doesn't understand the definition of a plurality either.
by NCDem 2005-01-31 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"
I dunno. I read this is standad everyday politics. Of course these people have past relationships with each other. That's a given. Especially when you consider Fowler Sr. was DNC Chair in the past. That part always makes me laugh when Donnie Jr tries to make himself to be the "outsider" and "grassroots" guy. Silly wabbit.

While i am disappointed that Fowler ended up with the recommendation, I don't really think this amounts to much. Nor do I think there was anything nefarious going on here. This is simply how inner circle politics works. People make deals and they tend to stick with people they've had good working relationships with in the past.

I expect the larger ASDC to reject the recommendation and endorsements and votes will therefore come to the candidates on a state by state and person by person basis. I've got no problem with that. It's what I've expected all along. You aren't going to get all 50 state parties to agree on one guy.

by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: "plurality"

Well, it was a plurality of the 19 on the executive committee, and a majority of those who actually voted.
by spandrel 2005-01-31 06:24AM | 0 recs
asdf
"A MAJORITY (and I hate all-caps) prefer Fowler. "

Of those who voted, yes. I do find it interesting how many abstentions there were. Is that normal, does anyone know?

by boadicea 2005-01-31 07:21AM | 0 recs
Can I ask a question?
Why did it have to go to a second vote? Dean won the first round by 1 vote. So why did it have to go to a second vote, and why is winning by two votes better than winning by one vote? Isn't winning winning...was it a standard procedure, or did something funny happen here?

Does anybody know anything about how this would, or should, work?

by sneemteam 2005-01-31 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Can I ask a question?
Standard procedure.  It's the way the DNC Member vote in February works as well, and the process (complete with an executive committee evaluation) was laid out a while back.  My guess is though that the entire membership will have its say.
by Yellow Dog 2005-01-31 06:33AM | 0 recs
Fowler?!?
Fowler is the top choice of a majority of this ASDC committee?  Wow - we have more foolish people running the state parties than I first perceived.  Granted, I've only seen the guy speak a few times - but that's all I needed to see to recognize this guy lacks self-confidence and any ability to get folks riled up and ready to fight the Republicans.  The string of lame asses representing the party may continue .... good God.
by ZennedJim 2005-01-31 06:28AM | 0 recs
David and Goliath
Why was I suprised? Again.

I live in the DC area and know lots of party faithful.  These folks were dead against Dean pre pre-Iowa.  They didn't think that Dean could win and they wanted to win bad.  I remember being shocked how vehemently against Dean they were--I had been on DFA for months and was head over heels in love with guy and thrilled with his position in the polls.  But here in the DC burbs the hardcore Deomocrats were not on board.

I can't prove it but I believe our Democratic Party, assisted covertly by the DNC, took a formal action in Iowa recruiting longtime Dems like the firefighters et al, and spread the word to drop Dean.  Folks were mobilized by our own party against our candidate.  I very much believe that the Democratic Party turned on Dean in Iowa and then the scream just sealed the deal.  

This action was a breach of faith and did not honor the rules of party primaries.  Back room politics is one thing but to actively organize against a candidate is quite another.  Why am I suprised?  Dean probably wasn't the first candidate to be brought down by party faithful.

Why am I suprised that that same party is still threatened by Dean?  They went after Dean and won and now he is back wanting to take over the very institution that brought him down.  It is a brillant move on Dean's part.  

Why am I suprised that the party faithful will do whatever it takes?  This isn't just Mrs. Clinton or any one faction, this is deep institutional thinking on the part of the DNC.  They don't want change and they don't want to lose power and control.  Dean is a huge threat.

Now what the hell are we going to do?

Dean for DNC Chair

by aiko 2005-01-31 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Aiko ... may I suggest that you and fellow Dinos all move to Vermont and vote to become AmeriCaNean ... American/Canadian/Dean.

I really think you should have said Dean & Goliath or Dean vs Normal Democratic Middle Americans.

Go to AmeriCaNean and you can then worship HD all you want and eat all the Ben & Jerry's ice cream you can.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Look jackass...you are the one who just stated that the leadership and the unions have already cobined forces to derail Dean...so go jump in a lake and take your weak ass dems with you.
by Parker 2005-01-31 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Parker,

We Democratic Middle Americans understand your Dino passion. We not that you are basically frustrated in not having the monetary or mental capacity to get your Political God into national office. So my solution is if you can't move the mountain (aka as Democratic Centrist Middle Americans)you can build your own sandbox up north with HD and call it AmeriCaNean.

Democratic Dad

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Okay ass wipe it seems that there are a hell of a lot more of Real Democrats who give to DFA than NDN like a ratio of 1 to 100.

You Democrat in Name Only slur is hysterical since that who the NDN finances

by Parker 2005-01-31 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Parker, I thought you might find this statement from Rosenberg interesting.

granted it's from one of the worst pieces of propoganda shit in the country, the wackjob Reverend Moon's Washington Times, but never-the-less it's telling about where Rosenberg sees the party going, and how successful he sees the New Democrats.

To his credit, Mr. Rosenberg is brutally honest when discussing his party's present problems.

"Our standing as a party today is objectively much weaker than when we began this [New Democrat] reinvention 20 years ago," he told a recent NDN conference. "The Republicans have more political control today than any time since the 1920s. They control the presidency, the Senate, the House, more governorships, more state legislative chambers and more legislative seats.

"And our standing with the American people has continued a several generations-long decline," he said. When President Kennedy was elected in 1960, nearly half of all voters "considered themselves to be Democrats. In the last year, in one poll more Americans identified themselves as Republicans - 33 percent to 32 percent. This means that since 1960 we've lost 1 out of every 6 Americans from the party."

So Rosenberg admits that the New Democratic movement has not created the change that he hoped it would when he joined, and is now looking elsewhere for avenues towards the goal of a progressive majority.

Doesn't that sound like the kind of pragmatic realism we need from the leader of the party machinery?

by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:05AM | 0 recs
Democratic Middle Americans
Thanks for clearing up any misunderstandings people had with regard to where Simon Rosenberg's support comes from.
by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
This "middle American" supports Howard Dean.

And, thank you, I will stay in the Midwest.

I thought your commend rude and uncalled for.

by daemmern 2005-01-31 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
For someone who posts as a dad, you sound amazingly like my (presently) obnoxious 16 year old.

I don't think it was necessary to react like that.

by sneemteam 2005-01-31 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
May I suggest, Demcoratic Dad, that you cool yer jets some or perhaps stick a non-Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream cone in yer ear.

There was no call for the rude and hostile nature of your post to aiko. Give it a rest.

by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 06:49AM | 0 recs
Normal Democratic Middle America
tray.com :
31 contributions from individuals given to THE NEW DEMOCRAT NETWORK - PAC (NDN PAC)for election cycle '04

tray.com :

3295 contributions from individuals given to DEMOCRACY FOR AMERICAfor election cycle '04

What normal middle Americans are you refering to?...the ones that can contribute over ten thousand dollars like the majority of the 31 individuals who gave to the NDN or the 100 bucks that were given by nearly 4000 people to DFA.

by Parker 2005-01-31 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
did I hit a little too close to home?
by aiko 2005-01-31 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
you were practically sitting on his lap...
by Parker 2005-01-31 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
Listen Pops,

Before you further alienate more people, you might go over to opensecrets.org and look at where the $$$$ comes to support this little party of yours.

And then look at where Dean's strength is.

There are people in California and New York are tired of being the personal ATMs for a party who basically thinks that win only tactics and not leadership.  

If you are going to blow off activist Dems like me who have actually worked inside the party for 13 years, fine.  

But your message above, truly says what Rosenberg is all about.

And while I was willing to say for a while that I would be happy with Simon as compromise candidate, your message has finally pointed up the folly of compromising with people more interested than maintaining power than getting Democrats elected.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean v Goliath
NanoRich,

I understand your frustraton when all you little Dinos rob all your kiddies Piggy Banks and could not Piggy Bank you way to getting Howard Dean elected.

Here's the word:
... BIG MONEY DEMS ain't likin Dean.
... little money dems (Dinos) likin Dean.
..... who the hell in the world do you think can best ward off the MONSTER FATCAT REPUBLICANS?

Sure in the hell ain't the little money dems. Like Bush said in Fah 911 Movie ... there are the "Haves" (Middle Amercan Democrats) and then there are us ... the "Have Mores" (Republicans)

So ... get real. The Democratic Party will N-E-V-E-R be ruled by grass root activists like passionate DINOS.

Anybody (including Rosenberg) who says so is just pandering to the wimpy Democratic "Haves" ... he knows that to kick the Republican :Have Mores" butt is going to take some saavy fundraising on Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Corp Boardrooms ... more than just the ATM like Piggy Bank mentality of the Dino Haves.

Democratic Dad
I have fathered alot of Democrats and sure like to rear Republicans.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 07:17AM | 0 recs
Dad
Again, thanks again for illustrating why the DLC and its arrogance is self destrusting in the face of real change.
by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Dad
arrogant self destructing....

(Grrr..bad nano)

by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Dad
It's ironic you mentioned "real change"

Real Change in the blind eyes of a Dino activist is using nickles and dimes to fight the Republicans monetary warchest filled was that folding kind of money vs the clanging kind of Piggy Bank money.

Let it come around to 2008 and let's see what type of money it's going to take to get someone in the Whitehose ... sure ain't going to be all that clanging kind.

IMO ... Dean (has the votes not the money) falls right in line with other miserable failures of our political past like Ross Perot (had the money not the votes)

To win it takes votes and money.

Sorry to have you look at reality and think outside the Piggy Bank.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Dad
Well, one thing I will say for you....

when you go off script, consistency isn't your strong point.

Thanks for playing, and catch you on the rebound.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean v Goliath
This kind of attitude is exactly what is killing the Democratic party.

In order to be a party of the people, you absolutely CANNOT be accountable to corporate America the way the Dems are now.  Part of the problem (causing the centrist movement) is the money--we have to take back the power from the financial elite.  In order to do that, the Democratic base has to be willing to fund their party.  When we fund the party, we make the rules.  When corporate America pays the bills, the party is accountable first to them, second to us.  

It doesn't take a blind man.

Using Dean strategies, the Democratic party raised MORE money than the Republican party for the 2004 election--this is a good indicator of what we are capable of.  Putting a "big money" Democrat into the chairmanship will drive small donors away, leaving the party holding the reigns of a horse that don't run.

KB

by Katherine Brengle 2005-01-31 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean v Goliath
Katherine,

I read in your message that cedeing the Big Money Fundraising should just be in the realm of the Republicans.

Is that what you really wanted to say?

Converesely, you are saying that we Middle American Democrats should follow some Dino like Piggy Bank change / ATM fundraising strategy.

Is that what you really wanted to say?

Well ... the New Democrats using the "Third Way" got Bill Clinton elected in 1992 1nd 1996 and our nation prospered. Don't you think we should look at this "Third Way" again and get a DNC Chair to try that first than some "Dino Way" first.

Being able to govern & fundraise from the middle (benefits both Middle Americans / Corporate Americans)

Hope you have an open mind unlike radical Deaniacs

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean v Goliath
Following the DLC strategy we lost the House and Senate in 1994.

This is not a record of success to run on.

And once again if corporate money gives you enough to be addicted to it, but not enough to win, having a secure and stable of small donors who do manage to give on a consistent basis, the only failure here, is a failure of imagination.

Big business gives money for one reason.  Small donors give for quite another.   And by insulting those people, many of whom give the maximum amount to both Dean and Kerry, and also give to the DNC, plus support the various candidates outside of their states it would seem being wedded to some gimmick which hurts the existing base of Democratic voters, while bargaining away the rights of others is the third way.

And oh, by the way, that BIG MONEY you are addicted to has been drying up since doing things the DLC way has resulted us losing power.  And why should they give us money?  That would be throwing good money after bad.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean v Goliath
Well guy... I had rated your earlier comments as "lame" but you have clearly crossed over into serious troll territory. I don't know who stuck a pole up your rear but I'm guessing it hurts pretty bad and I suggest you see a doctor about that and come back when you are feeling better.
by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 09:28AM | 0 recs
How about some bread pudding?
Bailey's Irish Cream Bread Pudding

4 1/2     slices French bread, thick,
        cut into 1 inch cubes
2     tablespoons butter
1     teaspoon vanilla extract
1     cup scalded milk
1     pinch ground nutmeg
4     eggs, beaten
1     tablespoon dark brown sugar
1/2     cup white sugar
1/2     cup raisins
1     cup Bailey's Irish Cream

6 servings

   1. Preheat oven to 300 degrees.
   2. Butter one 2-quart casserole dish.
   3. Prepare a water bath for the 2-quart casserole dish by placing a larger dish with water in the oven.
   4. Place bread cubes in the 2-quart casserole dish.
   5. Beat together the eggs, sugar, and vanilla.
   6. Slowly add the scalded milk and Bailey's Irish Cream.
   7. Pour over the bread.
   8. Sprinkle with brown sugar, nutmeg, and raisins.
   9. Place the casserole in the water bath and bake for 50 to 60 minutes or until a knife inserted in the middle comes out clean.
  10. Server either hot or chilled.
  11. When You take the pudding out of the oven, if the pudding seems to be dry, sprinkle some Bailey's over the top to help make it moist.

by boadicea 2005-01-31 07:16AM | 0 recs
enough with your name calling, DD
democratic dad, i am giving you a zero and hoping someone else will come along and zero your post out.  why?  because you're acting like a jerk, calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a DINO, and you're generally just flaming anyone without contributing anything useful to this thread.
by annatopia 2005-01-31 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: enough with your name calling, DD
How do you give a "zero rating"?
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:28AM | 0 recs
not entirely sure....
IIRC, jerome grandfathered a few acccounts after the scoop migration.  i think only a few folks have the ability to zero (or hide) a comment.  somehow i ended up on that list, and i rarely use it, but in this case felt it was neccessary.
by annatopia 2005-01-31 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: not entirely sure....
Wow. What power!

I'll make sure never to get on your nerves! Please remember that any Texas jokes I make are just jokes!
;)

by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:51AM | 0 recs
LOL!
no worries, i make fun of texans all the time. after all, i'm not a native.  i was born and raised in central florida, and still consider myself a floridian.

but after living here for... oh geez, 14 years... i guess i can also claim the mantle of "texan".

by annatopia 2005-01-31 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: David and Goliath
I would far from call myself a Deaniac (even if I am supporting him for DNC chair), but that kind of thing is as bad as the America, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT crap the God, Gays and Guns GOP are spouting.  He likes his guy, you like yours.  Last I checked, we live in America and have the right to choose and say how much we like a candidate.
by yitbos96bb 2005-01-31 11:23AM | 0 recs
Jerome... any word on who...
Herman Farrell voted for?
by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 06:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome... any word on who...
Good question.  A follow-up: we know that Brewer abstained because there wasn't a tie.  Do we know who else abstained?
by Yellow Dog 2005-01-31 06:39AM | 0 recs
One of the reasons I am no longer active
in institutional Democratic Party activism is because I have seen this kind of gaming over and over again in order to keep the power base in power.  From the district committees on up, if you aren't part of the club, you are fresh out of luck.

In reading through the various comments, I can't help but think if these guys spent half the time, a quarter of the energy, and one tenth the creativity they spend trying to stop Dean on fighting the Republicans, we would have senate and the house back, as well as the presidency.

Happily these machinations do turn off even the most entrenched of party activists who know this inside baseball crap for what it is, but just for the record....yesterday's little power play was transparent, and those of you who actually support Fowler will be surprised at what is actually occurring.  

As a matter of fact, you will know the feeling of what is like to be mugged....but don't know when it happened, or who did it to you.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active
You just wrote the core truth for some of us out here. Yeah, we know this is politics, and things happen like this, but when a party is losing, you would think they would be willing to maybe change up its approach a little bit.
by bruh21 2005-01-31 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active
No the party isn't designed to change.  In fact it is designed to keep people out.

If you look on the state, national or local level you will find rampant nepotism.  It is more about blood and money than committment or passion.

Fowler is a good example of that but the list is long.

I think Dean's staying power can be directly attributed to the net and the newness of this technology as an organizing tool.  It also fortunately or unfortunately speaks to the money on the net.

This is a once in a lifetime shot to get a progressive in a positon of serious power. I have watched progressives fall all my life.  Its my nature to support the underdog.  But this time feels different.  

12 days to go--what will they throw at him next?

by aiko 2005-01-31 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active
What will they throw next at him (Dean)

Good question ... one thing that ain't going to get alot of 'throwing' after 2/12/05 if Dean is at the DNC is some serious folding money.

THAT IS certainly sure ... the folding kind of money from PACS & Corporations.

Do you think the BigBusiness/BigGoverment cartel with the likes of Boeing, Pfizer, Big Sugar, Ford, BP Amoco, etc. are going to be running over to the DNC with Dean there? Hell no.

Rove must be grinning like heck if Dean gets into the DNC ... he along with I then can place some advanced bets in Las Vegas that there will be another Republican elected in 2008.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 08:00AM | 0 recs
What's that distinctive aroma?
See, I'm getting a Freeper smell off of Dizzy, here.

Those corps haven't been overly generous with Dem candidates. And they will follow the power.

I don't think Daddy's raising DLC, I think he's raising little Freeplings.

by boadicea 2005-01-31 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: What's that distinctive aroma?
Eau de Troll.

His insults and use of Gingrichian language kind of were a hint all wasn't what it seamed.

That is thing about this guys, they can only keep the pretense going for a short time, before they revert to type.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 08:19AM | 0 recs
nanovoter also known as nanorich
Nanorich & Dinos,

You must have missed part of your GED classes about critical writing skills.

I would support Howard Dean or the Devil if I thought they had a chance in hell of defeating the Republican Machine ... they don't and they won't. HD and other Dinos can huff and puff all you want ... ain't going to help.

The average Middle American Democratic voter is turned off by Yeeeeah! Dean and the Deanateers.

I can see that you are some pretty skinskinned and frustrated people.

Please let's get back on topic and give me 5 solid reasons you think HD is the best for the entire Democratic Party. I will then reprocate and voice my 5 most solid reasons why Simon Rosenberg is best for the DNC Chair.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: nanovoter also known as nanorich
The average Middle American Democratic voter is turned off by Yeeeeah! Dean and the Deanateers.

I hope that's not one of your 5 arguments, because that pig don't fly.

I support Dean as my first choice because:

(1) His national media presence will help the party have a voice on national issues.

(2) The passion he generates among the grassroots.

(3) Because he has been branded a liberal by the RWCM and is actually a slightly left moderate, he will allow the party to re-calibrate the liberal/conservative center of politics.

(4) He is a genuine reformer.

(5) The DLC doesn't want him to be Chair.

(6) His grassroots and netroots support will invigorate the calcified DNC centrists.

(7) The grassroots and netroots will continue their efforts to reform the party from within, instead of going to outside political structures.

Sorry for not stopping at 5 reasons. If you want more I'll see what I can do.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-31 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: nanovoter also known as nanorich
JollyBuddah,

Thanks for sharing your views on Howard Dean.

I did ask: "Please let's get back on topic and give me 5 solid reasons you think HD is the best for the entire Democratic Party."

The key here is THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I will reply to your first 5 reasons:

"(1) His national media presence will help the party have a voice on national issues."
That's fine, but John Kerry (who wipped your boys behind), said yesterday on NBC Meet The Press that the Entire Democratic Party needs less of a Spokesman and more of a Modernizer. I would certainlly want to hear one of our ELECTED POLITICIANS like Evan Bayh take on the Republicans before some UNELECTED POLITICAL PARTY MANAGER do it. In fact ... Evan Bayh did just that by voting against the nomination of Condy Rice. Evan is one of those DLC types that you folks show no respect for. Rosenberg would have a stable of ELECTED POLITICIANS & DEMOCRATIC STRATEGISTS & GRASSROOT BLOGGERS on his team. Rosenberg would not want the stage all to himself like Dean would.

"(2) The passion he generates among the grassroots."
Remember my earlier comment: The key here is THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Besides the grassroots ... how about our agingroots (aka as Seniors) ... how about bizroots (aka as Small Business owners). In other words ... the sun does not rise and fall around grassrooters. Rosenberg knows that and can lead all the many XYZroots of the Democratic Tree.

"(3) Because he has been branded a liberal by the RWCM and is actually a slightly left moderate, he will allow the party to re-calibrate the liberal/conservative center of politics."
Well spoken ... shows that Dean wants to interject his personal idelogue into mainstream Democratic America. We in the midwest don't much cotton to the leftie coastal Eastern / Western wings of the party. Rosenberg can play in Peoria ... meaning he can play in the Middle Coast / the East Coast / the West Coast and to Democratic Lefties / Righties / Centeries. I don't think Dean is capable of that.

"(4) He is a genuine reformer."
Kind a lame this reformer label shit. Reforming what ... fundraising? Political Leaning?, reforming Corporate America to turn us into a Sweeden like Socialist country. Rosenberg positions himself as a MODERNISER more than a REFORMER. He wants to Modernize our party and put it in the same league as the Republican Machine who along with Rove and others have consistently kicked our butts!

"(5) The DLC doesn't want him to be Chair."
Well that's kinda of lame. Sure ... any of the other DNC Chair Candidates including Rosenberg don't want Dean there.  THE PRAGMATIC DEMOCRATS like Rosenberg know that Dean is DEANVISIVE ... instead of UNITING OUR PARTY, HE WILL FURTHER DEANAKEN IT.

Well have it ... but keep it simple and to the point. I have.

Democratic Dad
Father of many Democrats and Rearer of several Republicans. BTW, I am not and never have been a Republican Focker.

by Democratic Dad 2005-01-31 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: nanovoter also known as nanorich
"Middle American Democrats"

MAD for short. ha ha ha

I'm a middle american democrat and you don't speak or me or any but a very few so I suggest you drop the "we" and speak for yourself only that way you won't have to be disavowed by the people you claim to support. I don't Mr. Rosenberg would support your comments at all.

by Andrew C White 2005-01-31 09:33AM | 0 recs
GOP spin on Dean is reverse pychology
I find the GOP spin on Dean interesting.  If they really wanted him as chair they would be mum on the subject and bash another.

I think that Dean scares the Republicans because we are as passionate about our candidate and the power of the net as they are about their church.

However in our party you don't have to recognize jesus as the messiah in order to be a member.

by aiko 2005-01-31 08:12AM | 0 recs
DD, with all due respect....
....you don't know anything about dean if you think he can't get money from corporations.  were you a bit more familiar with his record, you would know that he ran a very business-friendly vermont.

in addition, those corporate donations aren't worth what they used to be.  you've heard of mccain-fiengold right?  you know, the bill that banned all that corporate soft money you speak of so lovingly?  see, when the ban was instituted, the corporations turned to 527s and such.  as i hope you know, money flowed like water to those groups this last time around.  what in the world is going to stop them from donating to PACs if dean becomes dnc chair?  that's right: NOTHING.

so what is your point anyway?  you are just so determined to diss dean that you aren't getting yoru facts straight, brother.

by annatopia 2005-01-31 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: DD, with all due respect....
anna,

Have you noticed the most heavy handed attacks on Dean (and his supporters) are by those who seem to willfully ignorant about him and his record?  It is really puzzling, because common sense would suggest that more you disagree with someone, the more you should actually actually know about them.

It would seem those who should be relatively sophicated about the process and the people involved would not make themselves look so foolish as to buy into the disinformation tactics of those who deliberately lie about or distort out of recognition where a candidate actually stands.

Dean has the most well thought and coherent plan for long term reform of our party.  Do these guys know about it?  Nope, they are too busy defending a status quo which has eroded our party to historically the worst position in the last fifty years.

And they want to tell us the gimmicks they came up with 15 years ago will work if we give them another decade or so?

Nope, sorry.  

by nanorich 2005-01-31 09:48AM | 0 recs
Re: DD, with all due respect....
DD is a rosenberg supporter and i respect him for that.  but man, that attack on dean was just based on, well, nothing, as you pointed out.

and yea, i've heard the lies repeated by his opponents.  it's unfortunate that they seem to have bought into the media and GOP spin about dean.  but the bottom line is that i hope we can all work together when this is all over and done with.  f12 can't come soon enough for me.  

by annatopia 2005-01-31 10:30AM | 0 recs
Until today
Rosenberg was my second choice.

However, DD cured me of all that.

I rarely let a supporter's misbehavior steer me away from one candidate or another, however Rosenberg's background with the DLC has seriously bothered me.

Fact: Dean was a DLC poster boy until he broke ranks with From on the run up to the war.  After that, and with his success, the nature of the campaign against Dean took months for me get over. Clearly, the heirarchical nature of From's little kingdom tolerates no dissent.  

However, when unnamed operatives were quoted to say that those who endorsed Dean in 2004 would be punished and never work on "K Street" again, I learned a thing or two about the DLC, and frankly unless Rosenberg further distances himself From and his minions, I will have serious problems trusting him.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 10:45AM | 0 recs
rosenberg.
take this for what it's worth, but i have been receiving emails from folks all over the country regarding the dnc chair race.  the ones that interest me the most are about rosenberg.  i'm not kidding when i say that people across the country - people who've worked with their local parties - are singing his praises.  honestly, with the exception of the dlc stuff being pushed on the blogs, i have yet to hear one bad word about simon.

and i'll say this as well.  i emailed simon after our blogpac call, and he was considerate enough to email me back.  it amazed me that someone as busy as he is would take the time to reach out to a "lowly" blogger.  and the issue i addressed was serious: his seeming support for the war.  my email was worded pretty strongly and he didn't shy away; in fact he was very gracious.

honestly, i can't think of a bad word to say about simon, and it appears to me that he's made a clean break from the from faction as well.  of course, this is coming from someone who's only been very involved for two and a half years, so there may be some history i don't know.  but for whatever it's worth, i wanted to chime in with my two cents.

by annatopia 2005-01-31 11:40AM | 0 recs
The corporate money has dropped off anyways
The thugs are in such control that the corporations no longer feel the need to spread the love on this side of the isle.  Besides, the really big sums are now BANNED under McCain/Feingold.  Used to be you could write a check for ten million dollars to the DNC.  Now, it's limited to $25,000.  So Dean's success amougnst the smaller donor is what we need to cultivate.
by Geotpf 2005-01-31 04:30PM | 0 recs
Wish I could find my copy of Good Omens
(Terry Pratchett/Neil Gaiman)...

At one point, they wrote something to the effect that...

At some point, institutions forget about the purpose for which they were instituted to accomplish, and instead become all about maintaining their existence/power.

Pratchett and Gaiman said it more humorously (and more eloquently) but watching this nonsense only proves the essential truth.

Oy.

by renska 2005-01-31 05:10PM | 0 recs
check this out

http://algoresupportcenter.com/endorsement.html

a site that tells folks how to come to mydd and dialy kos and others and blog in support of fowler.....

by aiko 2005-01-31 07:14AM | 0 recs
The results are in..
Dean's won the ASDC ballot (state chairs and vice chairs)

Dean 56

Fowler 21

Frost 5

Roemer 3

Rosenberg 3

Webb 3

Leyland 0

Abstain 5

by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
wow... looks like we've got a 2 man race on our hands folks...
by Bart Carter 2005-01-31 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
Excellent!
by boadicea 2005-01-31 07:17AM | 0 recs
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGG!!!!!
Tell me more!!!!
by Parker 2005-01-31 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
Any word on who voted for who yet?

I agree Bart, this really does look like it's come down to two.

by Yellow Dog 2005-01-31 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
how Dean has 50 votes already in the pot this brings him over 100 and Fowler at about 35.
by Parker 2005-01-31 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
so Dean's almost at 25%?
by Bart Carter 2005-01-31 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: The results are in..
Which two is an open question.
by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:30AM | 0 recs
Dean wins ASDC on first ballot!
Just received word of the (unconfirmed) complete ASDC ballot (state chairs and vice chairs):

Dean 56

Fowler 21

Frost 5

Roemer 3

Rosenberg 3

Webb 3

Leyland 0

Abstain 5

by Chris Andersen 2005-01-31 07:17AM | 0 recs
Jinx!
by Chris Andersen 2005-01-31 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Jinx!
It bears repeating....

again and again.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 07:21AM | 0 recs
BTW
Since I haven't seen it mentioned re: the Exec vote earlier...that fix was in early. Around 3pm on Sat. word had gotten out that the Exec was trying to arrange a vote to put Fowler in. This wasn't a situation where they held a standard vote and it just turned to go the way it did. They conviened to get a desired result.

There was a lot of scrambling between 3-5pm as various state chairs were exploding at their exec for doing this at all.

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-31 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: BTW

Right... that's what it smelled like. This is why the 24-hour media cycle is dangerous -- we get all worked up at every twist and turn.

Imagine if there had been this many flies on the wall in the 'smoke-filled rooms' of yesteryear.

REMEMBER: Decisions made by small, elite groups of party activists aren't ALWAYS bad (think RFK, or FDR picking Truman)...so as we do our Democratic duty and keep them honest, let's keep some perspective.

Anyone who works hard for the party gets a stake.
The smoke-filled room of this century is big enough for the netroots.

by CT Lex 2005-01-31 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: BTW
Yea but because of yesterday Fowler is now alone in second place, a strong second.

That was not a forgone conclusion by any stretch.

Their actions helped their candidate big time.

by aiko 2005-01-31 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: BTW
It is about time to see if Rosenberg is actually going to make a move, if he actually has one.

That Fowler would get less than half the votes of Dean is a repudiation of the exective board machinations, and makes me suspect that that "Toto, I don't think we aren't in Iowa" anymore.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 08:09AM | 0 recs
I'm not so sure.
Sounds like there's some blowback as well.

Old Schools are looking more and more desperate to slow down the rising tide of change.

When Frosty didn't get any traction from the Regionals, they put their eggs in Fowler's basket.

They're really afraid of Dean and of Rosenberg, is my read here.

Up till this little ploy, I thought that Dean, Rosenberg, and Fowler were the three candidates that would allow me to feel comfortable registering as a Democrat again. (I've been independent and disgusted since the mid-90s.)

It's looking like that list is down to two, however.

by boadicea 2005-01-31 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm not so sure.
I think this vote shows clearly that Dean and his organization where able to respond to this situation in a short time, and short circuit it immediately.  That is a huge deal, and makes me suspect that the Dean bench is deep, skilled, and able to deliver.

That is not to say there aren't other little traps in ABD bag of tricks, but this does illustration, on a micro basis that the DNC voters are not a rubber stamp for anyone one.

I am mildly encouraged, and see this a dry run for the main event.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 08:58AM | 0 recs
So
Will Donnie be issuing another blaring press release?

I can see the headline now:

WE'RE NUMBER TWO!
ASDC Rejects Executive Committee's Recommendation to Endorse Donnie Fowler

by KimPossible 2005-01-31 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: So
it's clearly a 2 man race now.. Be careful not to put the cart before the horse.. Remember December 2004: "Dean is the Inevitable Democratic Nominee"..  It's anyone's game..  Watch out for Webb coming out of the backfield..
by Bart Carter 2005-01-31 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: So
I never said that Dean was unstoppable or the decision was inevitable.  My comment was more directed at how Donnie exploited the Executive Committee's decision by implying that his candidacy was unstoppable....
by KimPossible 2005-01-31 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: So
Um, if you're campaigning for something, aren't you supposed to put a good foot forward and get the good word out effectively? Aren't you supposed to promote yourself?

And I think the next press release headline is one on which everyone here can agree:

ASDC CHAIRS SEND CLEAR MESSAGE FOR CHANGE

by fng 2005-01-31 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: So
The vote for change is correct - but ASDC is only endorsing one candidate and is now firmly behind Howard Dean.
by KimPossible 2005-02-01 04:49AM | 0 recs
Re: So
I'm leary of "firmly" at this point. 58% is a great number, but not endgame.

All of the candidates that are still in are going to be working uncommitted members and even some of the committed votes for a 'second choice' strategy.

Also, given the switch from the Exec to the full body vote, I'm not sure the full ASDC will vote en masse even on a first ballot.

by fng 2005-02-01 05:22AM | 0 recs
It's over!
Dean won. The other candidates should step aside.
by abc 2005-01-31 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: It's over!
All of the members of the ASDC will support Dean now.
by abc 2005-01-31 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: It's over!
Where have I heard that before? Hmmm. Do you want to make a bet?
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: It's over!
Just watch
by abc 2005-01-31 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: It's over!
OK. I understand your enthusiasm, but why not put some money on that. And since you're so confident I'm sure you'll give me some sort of point spread...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:32AM | 0 recs
A "Carpe Dean" Moment for Dems
Clean, Plentiful Dollars - Dean has tapped into a force that is one of three forces that can save America from itself.  It is  - not just grass roots activism, but - grass roots money.  It's the cleanest money around, and when Kerry picked up on it, we beat out Bush in terms of $$.  Much of that funding was generated by Bush, but if Democrats only believe in themselves, and I don't know anyone that has shown that they believe in themselves as much in the past 12 months as Howard Dean, they can keep that money flowing.  The wrong DNC chair can see fritter this movement away.

Messaging - Dean has also proven that he knows that being "passive" in forming your message doesn't work.  A two-hour focus group will steer you towards mush because it leaves the element of pursuasion out.  (Bush/ Rove/ Gingrich/ Reagan/ Deaver have known this as well.) Cordinated messaging -- requiring levels of cooperation and repetition when you're the opposition that are unprecidented for Democrats -- changes the results of those focus groups.  Howard understand this well enought to have put together a training DVD on values and messaging for the Democracy for America (DFA) meetups.  Dems, who apply real values to their approach to government, even have a natural advantage here.  (It is gratifying to hear of a "war room" among congressional Dems...)

Navigating the Political Winds - The country hasn't moved to the Right.  The media, and public discourse have been creeping to the right, but that's not hearts of the public.  If you need proof, the country clearly rejects the Right's approach to its own strength, National Security!  Having Americans focus on "traditional strengths" of the right is different from favoring the right's policies.  The country has simply been baraged by solid messaging and conviction from the Right, and deer-in-the-headlights behavior (except for post-election actions such as the blessed Conyers/Boxer revolution) from the Left since mid-2002.  Can you see the dynamics here?

Dean the Man - Dean is not a radical left wing person, and it's disparaging to hear DNC candidates such as Martin Frost this morning on WNYC turn to personal destruction techniques by suggesting that he's unpredictable.  (On the contrary, he's been damned solid these past two years.)  For that matter, Dean has shown that he wants to guide elected officials into Exhibiting the Leadership.  If you listen to him, he knows if it were to remain up to any DNC chair to be the lone voice of the Party, we'd be sunk.  If you hear what he's saying, Dean knows the DNC chair must facilitate and mobilize politicians and grass roots alike.  Need I add another reference to the Gingrich revolution?

Grass Roots?  Astroturf! - Finally, people know about Dean's grass roots success, but they don't always appreciate that his organization is as much about the exchange and sharpening of ideas as it is about volunteerism.  DFA meetups are places of learning about techniques, debating issues, recruiting candidates, and making a real difference.  In Hunterdon County, NJ, our meetup brought so many people to the local Democratic headquarters that we could only fit phone bank volunteers because someone offered the use of a local real estate office.  We canvassed every Democratic registered voter in the county, contributing to an 83% overall turnout.  We brought so much manpower forward, we were phoning people in Pennsylvania and the mid-west before it was all over.

Resist change if you will.  Support chronies if you must.

If Dean goes down, Trippi's "un-Televised" Third Party Revolution may well be the next challenge to this anemic Party.

by MarkMyWords 2005-01-31 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: A "Carpe Dean" Moment for Dems
I'm not a Dean supporter, but that was a great summary of Dean's positives...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:14AM | 0 recs
Can I give you a "4" for that one?
You really covered the bases.  I am so sick of even progressives saying the country has moved to the right when all that's happened is the GOP has marketed its radical reactionary positions as centrist and the corporate stenographers and millionaire pundits in the media have been happy to genuflect.

The Democrats' key word from here on out needs to be "ACCOUNTABILITY".  Getting behind the lies, the self-serving rhetoric and the phony victimization to hold up the contrast between the GOP's words and their policies or actions.  That was the one thing that Barbara Boxer missed, was taking on Condi on her phony victim game and saying she was simply holding Condi to the standard of her own words -- that if Condi thought her integrity was impugned by pointing out the difference between her words and the facts, that was trying to dodge accountability for her words.  Which is what virtually the entire VRWC does every day.

Howard Dean has the guts and the insight to point this out, which is why (as a Democrat for the past 40 years) I believe the Democratic Party will be in a fatal decline if he is not its head, face and voice.

by Steady Eddie 2005-01-31 10:54AM | 0 recs
Why continue electing losers?
They had their chance in November. Many of us bit our tongue, held our nose, and voted, since we had to go the "moderate" route.

But the Party leadership had spoken, and made the decision that we had to go with their "electable" candidate. They then went on to lose to the President with lowest approval rating of any President who has won re-election, even lower than 50%.

So, have we learned that we need to change? DUH!

Does it make sense to change to become more Republican? Then what choice will people be offered - Republican 1 Party or Republican 2 Party?

I think many Democrats have learned, and that's why Dr. Dean has basically already won. Nevertheless, those who cling to their power in the old decaying party structure will continue to resist. And, of course, there are the trolls masking as Democrats who continue to try to sow seeds of division.

But those who have eyes can see. And we have learned a good lesson from the last set of elections. We want a real change in this Party, and it looks like we will get it. Good luck Dr. Howard Dean, the soon-to-be new Chairman of the National Democratic Party!

If that makes anyone 'turn' Republican, be my guest. How are you supposed to try to unite the Party with people who are so disparaging and vitriolic on a personal level to a major candidate, and all his supporters? We have seen it right here on this blog today.

Moan about it if you want, but either this Party will change, really change, or it will die, which it would deserve. Dr. Dean will be more than a breath of fresh air; he may very well be a last chance.

If you can't stay with the Party when it changes leaders now, as Howard and the DFA did after the primaries by campaigning for Kerry in the general election, then you weren't much of a Democrat to begin with.

by DDenver 2005-01-31 08:24AM | 0 recs
Point 1 for the Deaniacs!
First let me say that this is good news--a fairly solid indicator of the ways things might go on F12.  

Dean should have won the primaries for the 2004 election--I think if we ran them in all 50 states, he would have.

Also, it is really sad how members of the Democratic party stand against Dean, even though he works every day to help the Democratic party!

The Deaniacs felt the crush of defeat in 2003--it's time for the DNC to lift the rock and listen to the American people.

I wonder if this little Kerry/Michigan thing will deflate Fowler--let's hope so!

by Katherine Brengle 2005-01-31 08:29AM | 0 recs
Dean is Daemmern's choice
I volunteered on Dean's effort in Iowa beginning as far back as August of 2002.

I was a Dean precinct captain in Linn County, IA.
I also worked Johnson County, IA.
I was a Dean Linn County/IA-02 district/IA state convention delegate.
I organized the very first Dean Corps event in the country, and otherwise worked very hard, as a political newbie.

To this day, to me, Dean continues to be an inspiration and a source of hope, joy, determination and Democratic pride.  I would climb Kilimanjaro, if Dean thought it would help recover our country from RW-Republican control.

As a result of Dean's inspiration, many of us who worked on his team have gone on to positions of great responsibility.  For example, he inspired Dick Stater, our faithful Linn County Dean chair, to fight for the position of Linn County Democratic Party Chair.  We fought for it, and he won.  Dean people are willing to work hard for the party.

A man who can inspire this much in the citizens of the nation, can, and should, be at the helm of this party.  Howard Dean is that man.

I have shaken hands with Dean many times.  I trust Howard.  I've scrutinized his retina:  he's passed the test.  If he needs my help, he's got it, no questions asked.

These other fellows, I do not know at all.  None of them have made an effort to communicate directly with me, or introduce themselves to me.  Why should I follow them?  Who are they, behind the rhetoric?  I've never even heard their voices.  Why should I believe that they would be able to motivate and inspire me?

by daemmern 2005-01-31 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
Why should I believe that they would be able to motivate and inspire me?

That's not the job of the DNC chair...

by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
Here's the question for you: if you end up wrong, and Dean wins, will you wholeheartedly support his efforts, as a Democrat?
by DDenver 2005-01-31 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
Yes I will. I really, really like Dean, just not for this position. But, that said, I think he will be great for the party wherever he works, and I will support him in whatever postition he finds himself. I'm sure that will put his mind at rest ;-).
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
What?  Not the job of the DNC chair?  To come to people like me for funds?  To get my rump down to my county office and run phone banks, canvass, and criss-cross the country to get bodies to rallies?

What?  Not the job of the DNC chair?  To cut through the B.S. and bit the Republicans in the jugular?

What?  Not the job of the DNC chair to listen to the needs of the state chairs and keep his ear to the ground?

What?  Not the job of the DNC chair to make sure our people have a war room with the best technology and communications?

Howard came from obscurity.  Now, he's one of the most famous people in the country.  He's an intelligent and politically savvy guy, and not afraid to strike at the heart of the beast.  Seems to me those are EXACTLY the qualities I want to see in a DNC chair!

by daemmern 2005-01-31 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
I want a Democratic Karl Rove/Ken Mehlman. I want a master strategist and institution builder/modernizer.

Also- the DNC chair is going to have to cede the spotlight to the people who actually run for office and will also have to balance the interests of many different factions within the party. These are the two main reasons I support Simon over Howard...

by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
Well, then take heart.

The Dean team's response to this particular bump in the road illustrates that he has the chops to do it all.

You hire tacticians.  You hire consultants.  You elect leaders.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
You hire tacticians.  You hire consultants.  You elect leaders.

First of all I'm not talking tactician, I'm talking strategist.

Second of all, we don't get to elect anybody this time, so I really don't get the "we elect" comment.

by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
The job of the DNC chair is what the chair decides it is.

And at time where there is no important national leadership immerging, this job falls upon the chair.

by nanorich 2005-01-31 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
Motivating and inspring the grassroots may not be in the job description, but it sure wouldn't hurt the party either.

I think Dean would change the role of the DNC Chair. Perhaps Rosenberg would as well. The traditional job description of the DNC chair should not a ball and chain.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-31 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Daemmern's choice
No arguing with you there. I'm defenitely not in the ABD camp, he's a close second in my book...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:53AM | 0 recs
Good Point
I really didn't understand when KErry said the the DNC Chair is not the spokeman of the party...oh really.
by Parker 2005-01-31 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Good Point
Yes really. It's just not his job. He has to try and get everyone on the same page, not speak his own thoughts and opinions...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Good Point
That is still a sokesperson
by Parker 2005-01-31 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Good Point
Well, if that fits your criteria for spokesman than I think you'd have to agree that Dean would not make a good one. Dean is great at speaking his mind. Moderating himself and his comments, no so much...
by Alex Urevick 2005-01-31 10:19AM | 0 recs
Wellllll...
...part of the job is to go on Sunday morning talk shows and cable news networks (sometimes paried against the RNC chairman) and play CRRROOOSSSFFFIIRREEEE!!!!!!111  (Oh, and hurt America.)
by Geotpf 2005-01-31 04:40PM | 0 recs
thank you for all your hard work!
have we met?  what's your first name (if you don't mind revealing it)?

i was one of the texas rangers and spent some time in linn county.  i absolutely fell in love with the place (ok, so the cute iowa farmboys didn't hurt either, heh).  i also had an amazing time doing the dean corps work when i travelled to iowa - your sense of community up there is amazing and i wish we could replicate it across the country.  i hope things are going well for you - thanks for the great memories. =)

by annatopia 2005-01-31 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: thank you for all your hard work!
Texas Rangers?? Were you one of the folks who made it all the way to NH? If so, I'm pretty sure we were at the same party.. (I was on staff in NH)... that was a GREAT weekend!
by CT Lex 2005-01-31 04:45PM | 0 recs
Reminds me of 1 year ago...
Dean's in the homestrech and leading all alone.

Why does that sound familiar?  Let's not get overconfident until after the final vote.

by asearchforreason 2005-01-31 08:49AM | 0 recs
by aiko 2005-01-31 09:39AM | 0 recs
Wellington Webb drops out; endorses Dean
See the Denver Post.
by daemmern 2005-01-31 09:39AM | 0 recs
Moderation by Common Sense , not by Cowardice
I don't really care for the term moderate actually. But it's the term that has a lot of currency. I prefer the term independent. Dean is no knee jerk left winger (though I prefer a naive left winger to a looney right winger anyday.

Dean has been for the Afghanistan war. He has been for the first gulf war. He just happens to be against the Iraq war, a position that is actually shared by more than a few conservatives(Such as Pat Buchanan). It has nothing to do with pacificism or knee jerk anti Bushism. It had everything to do with common sense. Even Dean said so. He said despite lack of access to sensitive documents, he was able to extrapolate what he knew into what is possibly going on and he was right on target. So as a moderate, am I supporting Dean because he went 2 for 3 in supporting wars in that region? No, it's because of the logic he used. I can quibble with parts of his argument, but he is consistent and smart enough for me to not lose any sleep over the differences. There is no rigid ideology at work in his support or non support. Contrast that with  Hillary Clinton. Nothing wrong in her support for the Iraq war if she can justify it. She gave such vague answers when asked why she voted for the war. It seemed more like a vote to prove she is a moderate and nothing more. That is Moderation by Calculation or Cowardice or whatever you think it is. A lot of senators were afraid of looking unpatriotic. At least Lieberman, as much as I despise his presence in the party, believes in the stupid war. He wants to make sure the mideast is safe for Israel and is aligned with the neocons on this issue.

Why is it that most democratic leaders, even now, when they appear on FOX, have a hard time defending Dean, even though he swallowed his pride and campaigned hard for Kerry and the establishment last year? Why can't they return the favor? Who is being small minded and incapable of compromising - he so called reasonable estabilishment!
Dean was not even on the NRA hit list. And yet they call him a knee jerk liberal. It didn't matter that Kucinich who thinks the UN (the same UN that let Rwanda rot) would make things all hunky dory  had his people support Edwards as a second choice in Iowa. Dean was not allowed to live down the scream while we have to endure Bush butchering the English language on a regular basis. If you see Dean on talk shows, he is able to articulate his views better than other democrats who get intimidated and defensive with talk show hosts.

Personally, I tend to be independent. I am a passionate advocate of vouchers and believe public education has been a major failure in our inner cities. I hate trivial lawsuit  and I think countersuits for expenses in a trivial lawsuit should be made easier to win. However I am against capssince a company or doctor that is truly guilty of criminal negligence should pay. I don't mind if affirmative action is phased out, but I am suspicious of people who make this a large priority when they dont do a thing about politicians hogging all the contracts for their buddies(so much for merit).  I am for the legalization of  drugs like pot despite never taking drugs.

Dean doesnt agree with me on some of these positions, but he still speaks to me because he is sensible for the most part, we agree on some key issues and I TRUST HIM and he has the charisma to lead. It's that simple. When you have a country with a lot of freedom, you don't really need a politician who agrees with you on every issue. Just some core beliefs and there has to be a trust factor. Do i still fit your stereotype of what a Deaniac is?

by Pravin 2005-02-01 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Moderation by Common Sense , not by Cowardice
I just want to add to my affirmative action that i dont support getting rid of it right now. I meant a phase out over a time period. But even that is a low priority to me compared to corn subsidies, overpriced defense contracts, and many other troublesome issues.
by Pravin 2005-02-01 03:24PM | 0 recs

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