DNC Chair CattleCall

Howard Dean is now the frontrunner. Yes, Mark Hertsgaard, "with his passion and populist appeal, Howard Dean is exactly the leader the Democratic Party needs right now." Dean secured the frontrunner position with his getting the endorsement from the entire delegation of Florida, with Maddox saying, "I am a Southern chairman of a Southern state, and I am perfectly comfortable with Howard Dean as DNC chair." Then, following a handful of other ASDC DNC member endorsements throughout the nation, the DNC insiders are starting to tip toward Dean, with DNC vice-chair Gloria Molina, Ex-DNC finance chair Joseph Cari, and DNC dep chair Ben Johnson all endorsing Dean on Monday (BFA has a list). A week from now, Art Torres & the California delegation are going to endorse a candidate for DNC Chair; if that's Dean (and who else could it be), "inevitability" becomes the word. Howard Fineman says Howard Dean has "hired shrewd Washington hands to help him, including Jim Jordan, Kerry's first presidential handler", in DC's chatter about 'Anybody But Dean, Part 2', blah-yuch. Dean as the frontrunner presents the usual ABD problems. With no higher to go, Dean's got to go for being inevitable, but this time, the media has much less (if any) power, so Dean won't be hurt by the blantent miscoverage or the production of shitty television ads, and the endorsements (most of them) matter.

Martin Frost, who just came off of spending over $7M in a single CD is decrying"the consultant culture" of DC. He's not been able to gain much traction as the anti-Dean candidate though, but he's got the best shot out of all the alternatives, of capitalizing on the backlash of the sort directed to Oklahoma party chair Jay Parmley, after he endorsed Dean."Like most Oklahoma Democrats, I do not believe Gov. Dean shares our values or is the right person to lead our party at this time," state Sen. Debbe Lefwich, a DNC voting member, said last Thursday. It's a good bet that Lefwich is going to be learning about the 'silent revolution' of "most Oklahoma Democrats" the next time a vote comes up for her DNC position. Frost is certainly on the trail of Dean's tracks, with "10 staffers to track support among delegates daily".

Donnie Fowler gets points for his slogan "tired of conceding to the aristocracy of consultants in Washington" being co-opted by Frost. Here's Fowler on his chances: "Let me tell you about where this election is going for DNC chair. Howard Dean last week announced that he had six state party chairs that endorsed him. I have nine, and I picked up two more this weekend at the western DNC meeting. ... It's not Frost and Dean. I'm going to run right up the middle. We've got an anti-Dean. We've got a Dean, and we have an alternative to Dean. Someone who's been in the fight, in the trenches with state parties." Fowler will start releasing the names publically after the ASDC meeting in NY this weekend.

For Simon Rosenberg, has racked up an impressive list of endorsements, and his blogroll of supporters is second only to that of Howard Dean's. But what alludes him to date are public endorsements from DNC members. Not that many have publically endorsed to date. NJ's Hotline tracks Dean leading with 23, Fowler second with 6, Webb with 3, Frost has 2, and Leland just 1. Publically anyway, with Dean 200 votes shy of the majority needed to win, Rosenberg and the others are still in the running.

Wellington Webb had a good comeback to Martin Frost telling others that once Webb dropped out, Colorado's delegation was backing him, Webb, in turn, said, "I have several votes from Texas once Frost backs out." Al Sharpton said he's going to endorse Webb "because he has the proven strength and tenacity to get the job done." One of Webb's handlers, Northwest Denver activist Paul Sandoval, derided Dean as a renegade who won't toe the party line. "If we nominate him," Sandoval said, "we're gonna get killed." Someone should remind Sandoval that Webb endorsed Dean for President.

Tim Roemer has a fiesty staff, reacting defensively to Roemer's pro-government regulation stance over abortion that continues to distract the race. Despite that, he has support in the most liberal area of the nation from three prominant congressional reps that are women, Nancy Pelosi, Ellen Tauscher, and Anna Eshoo. With NARAL’s 27 affiliates are actively contacting DNC delegates against Roemer, the Keenan-Roemer spat does serve to keep the heat off of Dean. It wouldn't shock the world if Roemer dropped out of the race.

Chris Lehane says the race for "the campaign chair has evolved into a proxy fight for the heart and soul of the party." Sound familiar? Douglas MacKinnon has a op-ed today, Playing 'whack-a-mole' that points toward media manipulation of the events that led to Dean's being defeated in Iowa. The "journalistic disgrace" that MacKinnon refers to was their eating from the hand of dirty tricks Lehane.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)

Comments

96 Comments

Donnie is sounding good ...
But the thing is when he says stuff like this ...

 "Howard Dean has done a lot of good things in our party. He's been a governor. He has been a presidential candidate who encouraged grassroots activism. I have a lot in common with that."

I cringe. What? He has been governor for 12 years? Run for President? Been elected at all?

Donnie is a bit in over his head imho.

by kmthurman06 2005-01-25 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
his turning of the phrase may have been off, but 'almost' (blogswarm...stop, i know what you're thinking already) 20 years of real grassroots organizing and the levels at which he has organized (again...let it go) certainly get him more than a seat at the table.
by fng 2005-01-25 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
"More than a seat at the table" does not translate into DNC Chair. I don't see Fowler as having the media presence, stature or ability to inspire the grassroots that Dean has. In short, I fail to see any qualifications Fowler has that any of the other candidates are not just as strong or stronger.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-25 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
I just got an email from DFA.  It had a quote:

"Dean had the oranges, but he couldn't make orange juice."  

Donnie Fowler said this.

Fowler is a liar and a fraud.  He doesn't have 20 years of organizing experience, he has three years of experience.  He was a lobbyist for three years in CA, and he calls that 'tech' experience.

He is an enemy of the grassroots, he's as inside as they come, and he's playing us all for a ride.  That's why he's saying that Dean will take us to the left, because that's how he sees this.  Right versus left instead of reform versus not reform.

by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
I don't know if Donnie is a liar and a fraud, but I do know this:

At the DNC Caucus in Sacto on Saturday, a friend who talked with Fowler (and liked him) intimated that Fowler had said that he would go back to work in Silicon Valley if he lost the DNC Chairmanship.

Now this is clearly just a comment that could have been misconstrued, but if true, it validates people's discomfort with Fowler's "political class" pedigree and it points out quite an interesting juxtaposition:

DEAN: lose presidential race, WORK ASS OFF for party and do it with a smile. Then give up presidential ambitions for a difficult fight to reform the party.

FOWLER: lose DNC Chair race, cut and run for the money.

I'd love it if one question asked in NYC this weekend to all of the candidates is "What will you do if you LOSE the race?" Could be quite illuminating...  

by Fiat Lux 2005-01-25 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
I'll have to say that sometimes the blogosphere jumps to conclusions very fast!  In fact, if I do not get to be DNC Chair (and things are looking better every day for my campaign) then I would like to return to my home in the Bay Area.  But I will by no means "check out".  As I have done for years, I will continue to help out the Party in ways that you all help out every day -- finding ways to finance Democratic campaigns, taking a month or six months or a year to pack up and go work on a campaign, and continuing to proselytize on behalf of a progressive agenda.  I will not lie down and get run over.  The faltering agenda and the eroding Democratic vote are too important.
by donnie 2005-01-25 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
In fact, if I do not get to be DNC Chair (and things are looking better every day for my campaign) then I would like to return to my home in the Bay Area.  But I will by no means "check out".  

Donnie --- appreciate the direct reply. One thing that can be said for your candidacy is that you actually have the balls to come on MyDD often to engage the netroots. Serious points for you (imagine Frost or Roemer coming to our blog 'hood to mix it up with the locals?).

Should you lose the race for DNC Chair, I hope you reconsider your decision to return to high tech. The party needs you full-time, and I'm sure the new Chair would love to have you on board. You pass the "Budweiser Test" in the South, so we certainly don't need you on the wine-and-cheese circuit in Silicon Valley. And, if Dean (my choice) becomes Chair, he's going to need your help figuring out how in the hell he's actually going to appeal to "guys with confederate flags on the back of their pickup trucks".  

OK --- I've got two questions for you, if you have the testicular fortitude to answer them:  

  1. To date, you've framed yourself as the "alternative to Dean" (as opposed to the "anti-Dean") ready to "run right up the middle" of a potential Dean/Frost murder-suicide. So, along the spectrum of both "reform" and "ideology," do you see yourself as an ally of Dean or Frost? (pick one; no wiggle room allowed).

  2. And, speaking of Howard, you guys seemed pretty chummy at the Sacto Caucus. Lots of laughs and snark, it would appear, especially after Roemer got the "red cards" (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about). So, if Dean takes the DNC Chair, would you get on board the Dean Team, if called to duty?

(Before the rest of you question my naivete in asking a "born politician" such nakedly direct questions that he predictably won't answer in a public forum, let's give Donnie a chance to pass OUR "Budweiser Test". Maybe he'll prove you wrong.)
by Fiat Lux 2005-01-26 01:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Those are very kind words and I appreciate them.  To answer your questions...

First, I believe that Dean and I are the only two agents of change among the seven candidates in this race.  We both embrace change and innovation AND we can actually make it happen because neither one of us is dependent on DC to preserve our status or further our careers.  In other words, because we have not made our careers in DC, we can say "no" to the entrenched interests with no concern about social, professional, or
financial repercussions.

Second, my goal wherever I live is to move the progressive agenda forward and strengthen the Democratic Party at the state and local level
where the voters actually live.  I will do my duty, sir.

by donnie 2005-01-26 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Hey, nattering naybobs of negativism:

Donnie says he has been working with the grassroots of the party for ALMOST two decades, supporting Democratic candidates.  He has encouraged grassroots activism, how is this a negative?

I am sure we all eagerly anticipate the posting from blogswarm.  As always it will shed a lot of light, at least on one campaign's talking points.

by fightforamerica 2005-01-25 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
maybe in my efforts to fend off the talking points, i wasn't clear enough in making my point. sorry about that.

the clear point is that Donnie HAS been working with the grassroots of the party for almost two decades and believes he has a demonstrable record of success from that work. i agree with him.

howard dean has a demonstrable record of success in vermont and getting people very excited everywhere else. his grassroots bona fides on the national stage are 2 years in the making. Donnie's are almost 20.

in the world of on the ground, in the trenches, with the organizers, AS an organizer, i give the edge to Donnie. a point on which reasonable people may disagree, but not an irrational conclusion.

by fng 2005-01-25 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
the clear point is that Donnie HAS been working with the grassroots of the party for almost two decades and believes he has a demonstrable record of success from that work. i agree with him.

Except that he hasn't.  He went to law school, worked at the FCC, did lobbying for three years, and he's what, late thirties or something?  Kos pointed this out a week ago or something.

in the world of on the ground, in the trenches, with the organizers, AS an organizer, i give the edge to Donnie. a point on which reasonable people may disagree, but not an irrational conclusion.

What did he do well?  If Michigan was so great, why aren't MI people endorsing him?

The guy's a fucking liar.  I don't get why you don't see this.

by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Wow.  It sounds like I ran over your cat.  I'm sorry that you feel the way you do.  

Not only did I grow up in the Democratic Party ... and proudly so ... I have committed a significant portion of my life to it.  And most of the time has been working in politics -- whether that's on a campaign, in Clinton's White House, at the FCC, or as an activist.  Let me give you a list of states where I have spent at least three months on the ground working on a campaign or in service to the Democratic Party ... New Hampshire, South Carolina,    Tennessee, Wyoming, California, Michigan,   Mississippi, Connecticut.  I have spent at least a month in many other states in addition to earning a law degree and having the chance to experience many other things.  

Because of my diversity of background, I have been able to avoid being a paid political consultant and have instead worked as a staffer or a volunteer.  Keeping one foot in telecom/technology and one foot in campaigns is a lucky streak that I am glad to have.

by donnie 2005-01-25 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Interesting you STILL didn't answer the MI questions.

At the risk of sounding like blogswarm, I will repeat what I have said before. MI this year was no grassroots miracle. It was poorly managed, not very interested in listening to anyone not being paid to say something, and certainly not very amenable to letting localities do what they thought best given their local conditions. The GOTV plan seems not to have been planned until 3 weeks before the election, making it very difficult for those of us volunteers trying to implement the plan. Further, there seems to have been some very serious fiscal mismanamgement.

This is the closest thing Fowler has done to the DNC chair--and it doesn't resemble his platform in the least.

Now I suspect part of the reasons might be the way the Kerry campaign was run. But if that's true, some sort of explanation really ought to be part of your campaign. MI doesn't resemble your platform at all. Why should we believe your stint as DNC chair should be any different?

Barring an answer to that question, I've got to believe the (very nice sounding) platform is just hot air.

by emptywheel 2005-01-26 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
National Field Director for a Presidential general election isn't close experience?
by fng 2005-01-26 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Dean signed up 600,000 in those two years.  How many grassroots activists (most of whom, like me, never were activists before) does Fowler have willing and eager to work with him?
by Jim in Chicago 2005-01-25 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Fair point. Dean is very inspiring. I've never intimated otherwise. I did not support him for President but I respected what he did for the Party, that he made thousands of people proud to call themselves Democrats again.

But Donnie, because he understands how to create, manage, and use the grassroots in over a dozen States, I think understands more clearly what the State Party Chairs, County Party Chairs and Executive Committees, and homegrown activists NEED from a national party to get good people elected to office.

by fng 2005-01-26 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
But Donnie, because he understands how to create, manage, and use the grassroots in over a dozen States, I think understands more clearly what the State Party Chairs, County Party Chairs and Executive Committees, and homegrown activists NEED from a national party to get good people elected to office.

The Dean Dozens refute that argument.  DFA endorsed over 100 candidates at all levels of government and contributed to nearly 750 candidates around the country.  One-third of those endorsed by DFA won their respective races, including a Democratic governor in Montana, a Democratic mayor in Salt Lake County, Utah, and an African American woman to the bench in Alabama.

Another DFA endorsement was Richard Morrison's race against Tom DeLay, which helped force DeLay to actually spend money and time campaigning in his district.

by KimPossible 2005-01-26 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
The Dean Dozen don't refute my argument at all, they amplify it.

Dean was not the campaign manager, political direcor, field director, communications director, GOTV manager, or any other position in any of those campaigns. Don't pretend that because you feel strongly he should be the Chair, for very valid and compelling reasons, that his resume automatically includes all of the experiences you feel a Chair needs.

Donnie has been in the field, with the party activists and voters screaming with them that if the DNC understood what was needed to win a race they would provide x, and y, and three times as much z as we got. That experience is priceless.

by fng 2005-01-26 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Donnie is sounding good ...
Donnie still has not convinced me he's the guy and I need him to tell me why I should support him.
by KimPossible 2005-01-26 10:07AM | 0 recs
Just correcting "facts"
Frost, to the best of my knowledge, spent around $4 mil, not $7 mil.
by DemDog 2005-01-25 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Just correcting "facts"
Yea, $4.6M, but that's not counting from the $10M that he had the DCCC throw at Texas the last week.
by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-25 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Just correcting "facts"
I think that's a gross exxageration.  But yes, there were DCCC expenditures--I know they ran ads, and they may have had people in the field.

But you insinuate that Frost ran through $7mil in the same way Dean ran through $50mil.  And I don't think that is a fair comparison to make, especially when you have your numbers wrong.

by DemDog 2005-01-25 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Just correcting "facts"
Fine.. Martin Frost spent $7 Million in a congressional district and ran 9.5% ahead of the DPI.

Howard Dean spent $50 million on a presidential primary campaign in order to win one state.

You can criticize Martin Frost's spending policies or failure to "decry the consultant culture", but Dean supporters should be asking Howard Dean the same questions.

by ByronUT 2005-01-25 06:31PM | 0 recs
Hey, you forgot Leland n/t
by Parker 2005-01-25 12:31PM | 0 recs
Too many late nights with the new baby
You fotgot former Ohio Democratic Chairman David Leland...not that anyone noticed :-)
by Parker 2005-01-25 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Leland
At one of these forums, someone really needs to ask him a question like "If elected Chairman, will you put the DNC in as strong a position as you left the state Democratic Party in Ohio?"

Or better yet, "Why do you feel you deserve to share the stage with several people who have actually accomplished something?"

by Jim in Chicago 2005-01-25 11:05AM | 0 recs
Right on
Jerome: You touch on it indirectly, but I would be interested in your reaction to Feinman's ABD Newsweek article.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-25 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Right on
From inside DC, that's the perspective, but I don't think he's all to in touch state DNC members.
by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-25 02:49PM | 0 recs
Donnie Fowler
Any idea what state chairs endorsed him?
by sam89 2005-01-25 10:13AM | 0 recs
Barbara Boxer
If Boxer endorsed Dean for chair then the California delegation would almost certainly vote for him. Maybe we should put pressure on her to make an endorsement.
by sam89 2005-01-25 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Barbara Boxer
That would be a great idea.

Boxer should go for the "Backbone Triple Play":

  1. Ohio electors
  2. Condi
  3. Dr. Dean

Bring it, Barbara!
by Fiat Lux 2005-01-25 12:51PM | 0 recs
Rankings?
besides Dean in the lead, who is the consenus #2? Frost? Fowler? Rosenburg? Webb?
by DaveB 2005-01-25 10:41AM | 0 recs
So let's project something
So,

let's think about what happens if Dean gets the nod. First, does he attempt to bring his community with him to the DNC? by that I mean the people on his blog, and their activism? Will they want to participate in a Dean-less DFA, and if they don't will they find the DNC blog a welcoming place? Also, now that his following seems to have him lifted him to an office he seeks, are they going to be able to find satisfaction in the slow institutional changes that Howard makes? And more questions like these -- basically, what happens to his netroots movement, and what are some ideas that we could exchange so that that it stays together despite the transition?

by janfrel 2005-01-25 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
At my DFA in Orange County, CA we are about 80% Dean supporters and I can't tell the difference in goals among those who are not Dean supporters. I'll try to get a more accurate census at the next meeting. I think the grassroots and the netroots will both respond just as favorably to Dean and anything he does as any other candidate.
If the DLC doesn't see fit to throw a bone to the grassroots on DNC Chair I suspect there will be open rebellion.

I think it boils down to whether the DLC and the Democratic party gives a damn about the grassroots activists in the party. I think DFA will provide all the structure Dean needs to move the Democratic party forward on all fronts. If Frost or Fowler win DFA could disintegrate almost overnight. Rosenberg is the only candidate that strikes me as having even marginal acceptance from both the grassroots and the netroots.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-25 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
The DLC does not exist in this race.  Period.
by Matt Stoller 2005-01-25 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
The DLC does not exist in this race.  Period.

STOP LYING!!!

You are going too far now...

by Parker 2005-01-25 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
You're a fucking tool.  The DLC is very influential.
by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 01:14PM | 0 recs
Attitude problem
You have a hostile and nonproductive attitude.   You should clean your act up.   Don't go calling people names.  That's rude.

Centrism is for losers?  No, being a nasty ass is for losers.   Acquire some tact and maturity, and then you'll be able to persuade.

by Andmoreagain 2005-01-25 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
If Frost or Fowler win DFA could disintegrate almost overnight.

Jolly --- you're going over the top at that one.

DFA would actually be STRENGTHENED, oddly enough, by Dean losing to Frost or Fowler, especially if it's the DLC establishment that pulls the trigger (as in Iowa).

Project ahead:

  1. Dean loses DNC Chairmanship, but as he did after Iowa, keeps DFA going as a force for socially progressive, fiscally responsible candidates across the country. And his supporters stick with him, because their loyalty is non-negotiable.

  2. In 2006, DFA is credited for contributing to several congressional victories and Dean... sets his sights on a presidential campaign.

  3. DFA, now holding significant power within the party but ostensibly working outside of it,  mounts a smart and savvy insurgent campaign that rolls to the 2008 nomination amidst the wreckage of Dem candidates who voted for the quagmire in Iraq (30% support of Americans) and Bush's tax cuts now blamed for a two-year recession.

#1 and #2 are very likely to happen with #3 depending on a variety of factors far too volatile to predict.

Bottom line: DFA is alive and well, no matter what.

The DNC? They're the ones who will take a hit if they derail Dean.

by Fiat Lux 2005-01-25 01:05PM | 0 recs
Right on
Good projections .... I totally think this is a win/win for Dean and those of us who would like him to go for it in 2008 again. If he becomes DNC Chair, I predict the membership of the Democratic Party increases significantly. If he loses the DNC Chair race, he'll encourage the folks he inspired to get involved in the Democratic Party to stay involved and keep grinding away at reforming the party regardless of who is the DNC Chair.

Exciting times....   :)

by ZennedJim 2005-01-25 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Right on
I joined my local party in Boston, and there are so many Dean supporters here!  

AWESOME!!!

by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 01:16PM | 0 recs
Remember until
New Hampshire Dean was beating Kerry in Massachusetts by double digits.
by Parker 2005-01-25 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember until
Totally.
by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember until
Parker- who won NH and by how much?
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 02:59PM | 0 recs
You know...
We all know the primaries were front loaded for momentum to kill everyone off who didn't score IA and NH. Please stop the disengenuous pretense, please.
by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: You know...
Huh? How much did Dean spend vs. the other candidates in this "front loaded" primary?

And anyway, why doesn't Dean support reforming the primary system if it's so "front-loaded"

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 03:51PM | 0 recs
Not enough
To hire bagman Toricelli and that hit 527 run by the Congtresscritter who was run out of town on a rail for ethics violations, sadly.

You had to motgage your house to afford that apparently.

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Not enough
huh?
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Not enough
Kerry's little sleazy "attack Dean" 527. Money run by bagman "Torch", and the 527 was run by an ethically challenged former congressman.
by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Not enough
Right, so if this is the case, then why again doesn't Dean support changing the primary calender?

And also, Dean deserves a lot of the credit for his monumental (in the sense that he spent monumental amounts of money on a) loss in the primary.

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-26 04:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Not enough
There's a Democratic National Committee's Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling to study the scheduling of Democratic presidential primaries and caucuses and make recommendations for the 2008 nominating process.

If Dean becomes DNC Chair, it's out of his hands anyway.  So the question becomes an academic one.

by KimPossible 2005-01-26 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Not enough
Yeah- but the DNC chair will definitely have influence, and Dean's blase attitude is defenitely not going to help...
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-26 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Remember until
Okay time to confess are you getting paid to harass Dean supporters?
by Parker 2005-01-25 04:25PM | 0 recs
Dude
There's only one thing I agree with them on, sometimes you go waaay over the top. They are no more getting paid than you. They just believe (wrongly in my mind) as seriously in their positions as you do.
by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Dude
I wouldn't be too sure...

There is mega money floating out there now to win the chair. This board has already killed Roemer's chances it is not beyond consideration that other candidates would hire a little help to thwart the Dean steam engine...I mean Kerry et al put over a million dollars into a 527 sttack ads of Dean.

by Parker 2005-01-25 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Remember until
No. But I accept donations.

I have no problem with Dean supporters, it's Dean fundementalists that get on my nerves. As I've told you time and time again, Dean is my second choice and I really like the guy, I just feel that Rosenberg is more qualified for the job at hand.

And yet, somehow, this gets turned into me hating Dean... Really I don't get it...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
The DNC? They're the ones who will take a hit if they derail Dean.

Because Dean is the only path to salvation? This fundimentalist talk should be left to the right.

I hope that you realize that this type of talk is allienating far more people than it is attracting. I really like Dean, but after a few days reading the bashing of anybody not named Dean on this site, I really think that he may be a terrible choice for any sort of power position. At the very least, win or lose, he's going to have to put a leash on his minions, cause a lot of you are just plain out of control (Fiat- that last little rant wasn't aimed at you... Sorry in advance)

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
no it isn't.

It is only "alienating" to those who do not support Dean and never have any intentions to do so...therefore I could not careless.

by Parker 2005-01-25 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
I support Dean, just not for DNC chair.

But after this I think I'll be weary of Dean supporters. I had no idea they were so rabid...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
Who is rabid?

You can't make a comment without personally insulting someone.

by Parker 2005-01-25 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, Parker. Really, I do think that you, and others who share your passion, have a lot to offer to progressive causes. My point is that you keep going after your allies, instead of focussing your attention on our mutual adversaries.

And next time, before you claim that I'm insulting you, pleae reference a dictionary.

rab·id
3. Extremely zealous or enthusiastic; fanatical: a rabid football fan.

You don't think you're a rabid Dean supporter?

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-26 04:21AM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
  • Anyone who accepts funding from neo-cons are not my allies.

  • Anyone who purposely plans to weaken the Democratic voters influence on their elected officials are not my allies.

I think you are scared and reacting because my posts may be educating a few people to the real Rosenberg. So far you nor Matt S have denied anything that I have commented on. Instead you both resort to insulting behavior to make up for the lack of an opposing argument.
by Parker 2005-01-26 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
Yeah, bro, I'm scared. Actually I'm sitting here shaking. Actually, every time I encounter a fundie I just cower...

Simon will have to answer to why he took money from a neo-con source, but I don't understand where you're getting that second point from- it goes exactlly counter to everything he's stated in his run for chair.

We both have countered you on multiple occasions, and you refuse to do anything but scream bloody murder. And when I talk about allies, I'm talking about me (and Matt, though I don't know the guy). You don't think we're allies? Then why not?

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-27 04:03AM | 0 recs
100 percent agreement
Fundamentalism is very very off putting....but a small number of people get drunk off their own emotions.    Really, they're hurting their own cause.
by Andmoreagain 2005-01-26 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
It goes like this. If the DNC eschews Dean...he gets to do whatever he wants until he's ready to commit to running for 2008. Should he, the Party might split between non Dean and Clintonistas. As bad as that sounds, my guess is that the Republican candidate will need some help to win. So Dean could conceivably pull a Truman and crush Hillary and Jeb in '08 or the GOP could squeak by...or maybe even a Clintonista candidate like Bill Richardson or Hillary will win out.

If Dean wins the race for Chair, initally Hillary will make false peace with Dean and proceed to isolate him in control of the race for President but let him "talk for the party" by raising money and being in the public eye. Dean won't try and block Hillary from the nomination but he may try and make sure that she has to earn it...no coronation.

by risenmessiah 2005-01-25 05:14PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
DFA would actually be STRENGTHENED, oddly enough, by Dean losing to Frost or Fowler, especially if it's the DLC establishment that pulls the trigger (as in Iowa).

Well maybe, maybe not. That's a possibility, but not the only one. If Frost or Fowler win the DNC Chair slot, what role will they delegate to Dean? Maybe I'm the only one getting fed up with the DLC sleaze tactics, but I'm starting to look for another direction to focus my time, energy and contributions.

You projected one outcome and I projected another one. Will a Frost or Fowler DNC be receptive to liberal grassroots activists? Maybe the grassroots will stay with DFA and maybe they will Move On. I think I am on very solid ground to predict that the grassroots and netroots will take their ATM to a different venue even if they stay with DFA physically to attempt to reform the party.

I see a DLC rejection of Dean as a rejection of the grassroots and netroots. They put on a pretty good dog and pony show at Sacramento about listening to the grassroots. Do they really care what we think or are they just trying to preserve their grassroots ATM? At some point we all have to make the decision of whether the Democratic party is amenable to grassroots reform or if our efforts will have more impact on national politics in a more receptive venue. Sometimes the best way to push reform is from the outside.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-25 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: So let's project something
DFA would actually be STRENGTHENED, oddly enough, by Dean losing to Frost or Fowler, especially if it's the DLC establishment that pulls the trigger (as in Iowa).

I agree.  Look, there are still plenty of BFA bloggers who don't want Dean to be DNC chair and have taken a "well if that's what he wants..." attitude.  They would much rather see him run in 08.

If Dean does not become the next DNC chair, you will see a revived push among this subset for him to run in 08 as well as an increase in donations to DFA and individual campaigns, not the DNC.  

by KimPossible 2005-01-26 04:07AM | 0 recs
We already belong to state and local parties
The majority of Dean supporters I know in MIchigan joined the state party and most joined their local party organizations (county and town). We're already in the process of taking seats as chairs, vice chairs, treasurers, and secretaries of the local and county parties ... just a matter of time before we start snapping up state party executive seats.  

I'm not sure I understand the questions about the blogs .... you either like the folks who chat on a blog or not, I don't care who hosts it (though it shapes who shows up to start with admittedly).

Win or lose the DNC Chair, we're taking the Democratic Party back locally.

by ZennedJim 2005-01-25 01:00PM | 0 recs
The final ABD
I suspect the "dead-enders" in the ABD movement are going to settle on Rosenberg as the final ABD firewall ... and, in fact, Rosenberg may be the only choice that all sides could accept, even if none will be overjoyed.  Things will get very interesting if he becomes the overt ABD.

Fowler -- He just doesn't look and act the part.   He says all the right things, almost to the point where it appears scripted and poll tested.  There's just a nagging something that doesn't seem quite right.

Webb -- who ever wins ought to raise this guy's profile in the party.  Articulate, smart, African-American, urban, Western, the guy can be employed a lot of different ways.

by Steve in Sacto 2005-01-25 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
Hope that means he is better than Donna Braizille?
by bruh21 2005-01-25 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
This is exactlly my hope as a Rosenberg supporter. I think that he is the best suited to bridge the gap between the netroots, grassroots, DLCers, and the ABD contingent.

And hey, I won't be overjoyed at Rosenberg becoming the DNC chair (I won't see the guy in person until later this week, but I assume he's not the crowd pleaser that Dean is), but I do think it will be a move in the right direction for the Dem party.

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 11:45AM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
We could do worse than Rosenberg reforming the DNC and Dean devoting his full energy to developing and growing DFA.  (I'm not endorsing, I'm just saying...)
by Steve in Sacto 2005-01-25 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
If it's not Dean the party's over.
by CentrismIsForLosers 2005-01-25 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
This is why I really have a hard time dealing with Dean supporters. Are you telling me that if Dean had a heart attack tomorrow that all hope would be lost?

If you think that then you're really not down for the long hard road ahead, cause it sounds to me that you're a "fair-weather friend" to progressive causes...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 02:43PM | 0 recs
No
There's a huge difference between a legitimate loss, illness, etc...and a bunch of vapid connected by birth types circling the wagons. I give you Bill70 as a perfect, almost charicature of an example. The dude starts his justification by informing us all his family is connected, and he's 34 and retired. Whoopie, go buy a Starbucks (I mean a franchise, not a mere coffee).

It is a bit much to watch the same motly crew circle for self advancement/protection, then shove one of their own down our throats...and expect us to pony up our money as well.

I've said this before. We're no different than the big money players. As an aggregate, we are worth more than entire business sectors in donations. If they don't get their choices and positions, they walk. If the vapid DC players don't get theirs, they walk (remember McGovern?). No one calls either disloyal, a cult, etc... Under the of polite conversation, this is just called "smart politics", "the way things are", etc...

Or as my Dad used to say, in his infinite midwestern middle class wisdom; "If a rich guy sits on the veranda and gets falling down drunk on fine wine, he's an eccentric connoisseur. If a poor guy gets drunk on plonk sitting on his stoop, he's a wino".

We've learned we have money and volunteer time clout...we demand the same respect, or we will give the same behavior. Call it the Union going on strike until management takes worker concerns and demands seriously.

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: No
Yeah- you'll give the same behavior to the other volunteers (and I volunteer a whole lot for a DEan offshoot group- Music for America). Not really cool in my book, and defenitely a losing strategy.
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 04:41PM | 0 recs
Spare me
The false sanctimony and guilt trip. Will you be doing the same for the Clinton Clan (or any of the others?) when the sit on their hands if they don't get what they expect?

Oh, that's right...different rules for them, correct?

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Spare me
No, but if you were to say half the things to my face that are being said to non-dean supporters on this site...
Never mind, the point is that the passion I feel and the fight I have in me needs to be aimed at my true enemies, not those who are my allies but differ slightly with me on one issue.

If we were to go down the list of issues and you saw where I stood on them, then I believe you'd prob. agree with most of them. But because I support a different guy for an internal party election I'm somehow "part of the problem"?

If you want to read why I think that Rosenberg would be a great choice, then go check my endorsement. But all this self-righteous BS has got to stop.

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Spare me
You'll note I never said anything against Rosenberg. Not my first choice, but I could live. That would be an example of compromise, if needed. Frost, Fowler and Roemer are not.

Much like you, I get annoyed with the bollocks, only from different people. The Dems. who shout in outrage at the lack of social mobility...and pump up Fowler. Or the ones who push Frost and Roemer, then start throwing guilt when they get called on expecting everyone else to be password cleared ATMs.

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Spare me
OK, but if you look at the top of this particular set of responses you'll see it comes from me saying that Rosenberg would be a good alternative if the ABDers win, which is what I thought you were referring to.

And yeah, I never really felt very strongly about being a Dem, precisely because I felt they ignored their base (us). My hope is that either Dean or Rosenberg will make it easier for people like me to proudly proclaim "I'm a Democrat!" with the full confidence that it actually meant something...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-26 04:17AM | 0 recs
In other words...
Try answering the point, instead of the same old tired sliding rule set.
by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 07:00PM | 0 recs
Re: No
Yes, if your preferred candidates lose any of you can walk away from the Democratic Party.

Where are you going to walk to?

You have NOWHERE TO GO that will not take decades to achieve power.  Perhaps the walkers among you believe you can take the blogging community and grow a third party that can challenge for the presidency and transform American politics.

That isn't impossible.

That certainly isn't probable.

Believe me, I understand the frustration of not having a political party that represents you.  I am to the left edge of the scale on social issues and have not been well-represented in those views by the Republicans or the Democrats.  Neither party has supported individual freedom well over the last two decades. The values of the Democratic Party do show more compassion for people regardless of their fitness as corporate workers.  But  Democrats generally ineffective politics in my lifetime has meant they have steadily lost ground to the Republican way.

Until recently there has been very little that I could do about national politics.  But with the rise of the political relevance and influence of the blogosphere has come an opportunity to influence the actions and values of the Democratic Party. What an amazing opportunity. I doubt younger Americans can fully appreciate how revolutionary this truly is but I'm sure you all feel the buzz of actually having a voice.

Regardless of whether Howard Dean is thwarted in the next few weeks, or is thwarted in one year, or is not thwarted at all, you have no better opportunity in the world to help cause the ascendance of progressive values than by staying with the Democratic Party and changing it from within.  

You cannot do it faster elsewhere. There is enormous power within the Democratic Party that can't be gained from the Greens, or the Libertarians, or any third party movement. If things don't go your way this year keep fighting and make it go your way NEXT YEAR.

There is something deeply wrong with America right now and we don't have time to create power elsewhere.  We must instead turn the Democratic Party itself towards our goals.  The rise of ignorance, of violence, and of authoritarianism brought about by the Republican Party must be stopped before America has been damaged to a point that it will take decades to recover.

The best chance for growing true freedom and participatory democracy in America will for the next decade be with the Democratic Party.  I hope all of you stay with the party and make it happen.

by Curt Matlock 2005-01-25 04:58PM | 0 recs
Its called compromise
If they can't, enjoy Republican hegemony. I'm sick and tired of the Bill70's using that form of blackmail to get ahead. "Give us your money and volunteer time so we can be in charge, or else they will be in charge."

Screw that. Its done. We are not unprotected ATMs that just spew money. We are not Manpower Associates providing temp help. They are not the nobility of Victorian/Edwardian England, to whom all is due.

The rules have changed. Just as technology has disintermediated much of business, and killed off a lot of useless dead wood that had to be tolerated for operations...it has disintermediated politics. We don't need a lot of them anymore. The consultants are overpaid. The channels of entry are clogged so only the kids of six figure incomes and/or players are allowed in (Hi, Donnie Fowler!).

It ends. Or they can enjoy being "just plain folks" via other means.

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-25 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Its called compromise
"I'm sick and tired of the Bill70's using that form of blackmail to get ahead."

Oh, please.  I worked my ass off to have a good life for my family.  Life is good now.  But growing up in western Colorado in the 80's was no picnic.  We never starved, but it was tuff.

So, you think guys like me are connected?  Nuts!  What is a shame are knowing guys like me who do well, and then turn their backs on politics altogether.  I am not one of those guys.  My family contributes and volunteers to the DNC because we never forgot how bad it was during the Reagan era.

You want to refer to Bill70 as a rich, connected guy?  I cannot stop you.  If you feel it so important to stereotype, then your thoughts are your own.

BTW, if I was so rich and connected, why would I bother to participate in differing discussions on MyDD?  

Amazing, a pro-life Catholic who did not fold his tent and run to the RNC or turn a blind eye.  

by Bill70 2005-01-26 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Its called compromise
Don't worry Bill- not all of us will kick you around because you're anti-safe abortions. Just because you don't care about the saftey of young women doesn't mean that you don't share a lot of the other values that progressives stand by.
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-27 04:06AM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
We could do worse than Rosenberg reforming the DNC and Dean devoting his full energy to developing and growing DFA.

My best case senario is this:
Rosenberg gets the nod as DNC chair, and takes on the technological, organizational, and fundraising responsibilities.
Dean comes on in some role and acts as the spokesperson, grass and netroots liason, and chief message architect.

But I'd be fine with Dean as chair, but with the responsibilities divided, i.e. Dean in front of the cameras and out in the field, and Rosenberg behind the scences reforming the structure of the DNC itself...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 02:58PM | 0 recs
Hmmm....
What I keep reading is that Dean would be a great CEO and Rosenberg a great COO. So, what I'm seeing is that Howard Dean would be a great Chair and Simon Rosenberg would be a great manager.  
by ZennedJim 2005-01-25 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmm....
No, that's not really what I mean.
It's more like- Simon would be a great CEO, Dean would be a great President.
by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmm....
CEO's do not take on " takes on the technological, organizational, and fundraising responsibilities" unless it is a one-man organization. I'm still hearing Dean is the face and Simon is managing the day-to-day operations.
by ZennedJim 2005-01-25 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmm....
OK- add this to the list-
someone to create a system of accountability and ensure that everyone communicates and does their job...

But, again, Dean & Rosenberg or Rosenberg & Dean, either way you go, it looks good to me...

by Reverend AlX 2005-01-25 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: The final ABD
So, Simon Rosenberg is a friend of Dean's?  Take a look at this attack ...

Old Woes Surface as Dean Seeks Dem Chairmanship
By E.J. Kessler  /  January 25, 2005
Forward Magazine

As the Democratic National Committee gets set to pick a new chairman, the party is experiencing déjà vu all over again ...

Once again, Dean's critics tend to come from the centrist, Bill Clinton wing of the Democratic Party ... Once again, those critics are trying to torpedo Dean's candidacy by highlighting some comments that Dean made during the primaries about Israel and national security ...

"The prospect of Howard Dean's chairmanship must have folks at the Republican Jewish Coalition licking their chops," said Kenneth Baer, a Democratic strategist who is supporting Rosenberg. While acknowledging that Dean's campaign brought many innovative fund-raising and organizing techniques into the party, Baer contends that Dean's statements on Israel and "the other crazy statements he's made... should be a disqualifier."

"He's just flat-out wrong on foreign policy," Baer said. "The pro-Israel community would be very worried if Dean became DNC chair and the Republicans would exploit it."

Consultant Dan Gerstein, another Rosenberg supporter who worked for Lieberman, echoed Baer's comments.  "We're in a real hole regarding national security," he said of the Democrats. "The last thing you want to do is keep digging." Dean "made multiple comments" on Israel and national security during the primary that "call into question whether he's the person to lead the party," Gerstein averred, adding that in his view, Dean's campaign-era comments showed he was "pandering to the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel wing of the Democratic Party ...

Rosenberg, in a statement to the Forward, said: "I believe that it's up to the members of the DNC to judge the candidates' records. It's up to Howard Dean to explain his statements."

by twyford 2005-01-25 06:53PM | 0 recs
Here we go
Tell me again that the DLC (*LIE*berman and Clinton) has notthing at all to do with this...
by Parker 2005-01-25 10:31PM | 0 recs
Hey now!
"Dean as the frontrunner presents the usual ABD problems. With no higher to go, Dean's got to go for being inevitable, but this time, the media has much less (if any) power, so Dean won't be hurt by the blantent miscoverage or the production of shitty television ads, and the endorsements (most of them) matter."

Never underestimate the power of a vindictive press coupled with an inept media strategy and really bland visuals.

You just can't do that...

by michael in chicago 2005-01-25 12:46PM | 0 recs
The DNC is very competent
The DNC is made up of party activists, and those in California, at least, have long histories working to get Democrats elected.  I think they will make a good choice, and I will have no problem accepting whomever they chose.  At least they have a clear idea about what the job consists of, what it could consist of, and what it should consist of.  I doubt that all of us could say that.  I can see good reasons to pick either Dean or Rosenberg, and I suspect one of the two will be the choice.
by Sacramentohop 2005-01-25 12:52PM | 0 recs
Out of the smoke-filled rooms ...
... and into the harsh light of public scrutiny, all of it real-time.  That is the importance of this race, and of the bloggers involved in it.  No more easy deals cut behind closed doors by self-interested pols.  Now, decisions made, names are named, positions are analysed, prevarications flushed out, and proper analysis made - all helping the voters.  So, Dean's victory means more than just another politician winning a post; it means his open style of politics, wedded to the power of the Net, is starting an irresistable groundswell with far reaching consequences.
Go, Governor, Go!
by CuriosityKilledTheCat 2005-01-25 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Out of the smoke-filled rooms ...
That, in a nutshell, is what is so revolutionary about Dean and DFA.

Check out the following Dean op-ed I posted last night. A great piece that perfectly encapsulates Dean's empowerment ethic:

http://fiat-lux.mydd.com/story/2005/1/25/6237/84982

by Fiat Lux 2005-01-25 02:14PM | 0 recs

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