What actually happened vs the "goal" of one person?

Let me just clairify a couple of things in this whole brouhaha that's went on over the paid work of Markos and I did with DFA from Aug to Dec of 2003, during which time I was on blogging haitus, and Markos had a disclaimer on his blog. Plainly, her claim is discredited from what actually happened, but the media is riding on this still, because it has other implications.

When Zephyr says "we", referring to the Dean campaign, and "our" in the statement "it was very clearly, internally, our goal" to pay us for supporting Dean. The people she is referring to, who would have been on the campaign's internet team at that time to discuss such a matter (among them Joe Trippi, Matthew Gross, and Nicco Mele), and obviously that didn't include Howard Dean. I've emailed those individuals asking they respond to the matter, and if in fact her accusation is true. And Zephyr should also clarify who this group is that created such a "goal". Personally, I believe it's just a bogus accusation made by Zephyr to fit into her over-arching 'ethics for blogging' crusade-- that the "goal" works more as an ethical issue for her own reflection, than it does as a projection onto Markos and I as bloggers.

But already, the Mighty Wirlitzer is using Zephyr's claims, in order to equate the private actions of DFA (implying Dean) with those of the Bush administration's payola of government funds to Armstrong Williams for biased reporting. And the wingnuts, fearful of a reinvigorated Democratic Party with Dean as DNC Chair, are flouting it. CNN was asking about "Dean paying bloggers" this morning, and the WaPost is following up on the story. Zepyhr should step up to the plate and clarify, or retract the accusations as her own frame of mind, and not DFA's; as wouldn't that be the ethical thing to do?

Update: See Atrios, grrrr.

Update 2: Simon Rosenberg blogs about the matter:

The internet and blogs represent a new way to communicate ideas and talk to voters, and as a party, we need to embrace these opportunities. I have invested a great deal of time and effort work to increase participation in politics through the Internet, starting in the mid-1990s and continuing through this campaign. While there may be only 447 DNC members, my campaign - which includes bloggers, I am proud to say - is using the Internet to open up the process to the increasing number of citizens who are going online to learn and participate in our politics.

Now, some on the right are cynically using the work of bloggers who have helped open up the democratic conversation to try to excuse the actions of Armstrong Williams. It's stunning to me, as someone who has worked in TV news as a producer and writer, that Williams can be talked about in morally equivalent terms to Markos Moulitsas, who was transparent about all his business relationships, or Jerome Armstrong, who shut down his web site to prevent any conflict of interest. Williams was paid with taxpayer money to propagandize for a corrupt Republican party leadership, and what happened deserves a full investigation in which the involved parties are held responsible.

Ultimately, however, we cannot lose sight of what is truly at stake. Williams is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the vast power commanded by the corrupt and radicalized Republicans that control our politics, and to some extent, our media. The power the right can bring to bear on any issue because of its investments in communications and intellectual infrastructure needs to be matched, and exceeded.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)

Comments

46 Comments

Zephyr is an idiot
Bob Novak just used this fake scandal to bash Governor Dean. This was on Inside Politics an hour earlier.

Zephyr really blew it.

by Bob Brigham 2005-01-14 11:50AM | 0 recs
Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
I hope EVERYONE realizes the type of future backstab attacks they leave themselves open to in the future if they work with Trippi or Zephyr.

Trippi and Zephyr were the two in the whole Dean internet revolution that actually knew the least about the internet at the start of the phenomena as well as stole the most credit for the work of others. Now, both are trying to cut the throats of both their candidate and those who they stole their ideas and credit from.

All that's left if for Trippi and Zephyr to finish it off with an attack on Aziz, the operator of Dean Nation, to make this play complete.

by afs 2005-01-14 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
a sure fire way for a movement to implode is to start atacking and name calling folks on your own side of the fence.
by aiko 2005-01-14 12:20PM | 0 recs
Good. Tell that to Zephyr and Trippi
Zephyr and Trippi are the ones who are showing up in the national media to attack Dean as well as the very bloggers Zephyr and Trippi stole all their ideas from.
by afs 2005-01-14 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Good. Tell that to Zephyr and Trippi
A few things to brighten everyone's day:

Here are my entries in the "get over it" games:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/1/14/183851/174/68#68

OOPS!  I'm STILL not over it !  Heaven forbid and bless my sorry-ass soul, but I completely forgot I had another comment! Can you believe that?  I didn't know any of this would be made public!! I thought this was just a tiny little private nook on the internets.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/1/14/183851/174/29#29

Okay. Now I'm done.  I shall proceed to start to get over it jolly quickly. Pip pip!

Ooops! Not so fast, fella.  Let's make sure we aim the other barrel at "The Average Joe":

http://web.archive.org/web/20040211230955/changeforamerica.com/blog/

-----------------
SAYETH JOE:

CHANGE FOR AMERICA
One Blog. For Real Change

February 04, 2004
Still in the Fight
Joe Trippi

I am still trying to figure out what I am actually going to do with the rest of my life, so far its always been about changing or messing with something bigger than me.

The one thing I know I want to do, is continue to do my part to build a community with a mission of changing our country for the better.

So here starts a new blog.

I am proud of what so many in the Dean campaign accomplished these past 13 or so months. Governor Dean and the grassroots campaign that rallied to the cause gave the Democratic Party back its voice. Standing up to George Bush when most feared his popularity. Opposing the war in Iraq when others were silent. Building an energized grassroots while others laughed. Proving the that hundreds of thousands of small donors could raise more than those addicted to big money politics.  (ETC)

------

Oh, oh! Call on me! I know that one by heart!  

And who could forget the tender warmth of the Cummings Creek Compact?

As our story begins, there is talk of money. Yes. Sooner or later it
always comes up. And the bird in the tree neaby tweets "but what about
the commissions to TMS? " Oh, but I'm getting ahead of myself! Shhhh!
Shhhh! Pull up a chair. Start up a nice fire. Retire to your
underwear and relax as the scene shifts to February 2004 ....

EPISODE 2: WHEREIN THE GALLANT SERVANT EXPLAINS HIS SACRIFICE
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000015.html

EPISODE 4: WHEREIN WE SEE WHAT KIND OF CHANGE WE CAN BUILD TOGETHER
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000022.html

"I have been doing a lot of thinking and talking to people around the
country and have a lot of ideas about how we build a stronger and
broader community for change in this country. I really am convinced
that we stand at a pivitol point in our democracy where real debate is
on the wane, and that the slide will only get worse with 4 more years
of more of the same."

EPISODE 5: WHEREIN WE DISCUSS 'TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADERSHIP'
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000024.html

"The present and future leaders of a new movement dedicated to the
Great American Restoration have been created because one
transformational leader win or lose will have made a difference beyond
words."

EPISODE 6: WHEREIN WE COMMIT TO MAKING A DIFFERENCE
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000025.html

"I believe acting together 2 million Americans can make all the
difference in the world. I believed that over a year ago -- I believe
it even more today. You have changed things -- and that change is not
going to stop."

EPISODE 8: WHEREIN THE TRUE "CHANGE FOR AMERICA" COMMENCES
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000029.html

"tonight I will be commenting on the results on MSNBC's Hardball with
Chris Mathews"

FEB 18: WHEREIN WE GIVE PRAISE TO ALL GOOD THINGS OF MAN
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000040.html

"You also set out to change things that need to be changed and to make
a difference. The Dean campaign and its impact on our nation's politics
will be remembered for years for the difference you made. ... That's
what I am thinking about tonight, and I am thinking tonight of those in
the other campaigns (yes even those I disagreed with) who did their
best, who gave their hearts, who sacrificed just as much, and deserve
our gratitude as well.

FEB 21: WHEREIN THE LOYALISTS GATHER YE ROSEBUDS DOWN YONDER ON THE
FARM
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000054.html

"As soon as I got here Kathy recruited me to cut up a willow tree that
was knocked down by Hurricane Isabel in the fall. When we couldn't
locate the chain saw in the various sheds and barns, I opted to split
firewood to feed the wood stoves that we'll be firing up soon. After
Burlington it feels like summer to me down here on the Chesapeake,
which means that I didn't have to wear my hat and gloves and scarf. Not
long into my work, Joe returned from errands, and as soon as we were
finished unoading the car he looked at me and said: "Hey. . . you
should blog!"

FEB 21: WHEREIN THE DRAMATIST REVEALETH THE SCENE OF THE PACT
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000057.html
(Looketh closely, as you may see our President Bush, center screen,
preparing to clear brush from the Ranch)

From the Comments: "What do you think about people like Kos trying to
put down Dean in order to pump up his own business? ... KOS: 'I firmly
believe that Dean is getting too much credit for this. The blogosphere
existed, and was healthy, before Dean came along. And it's healthy and
still existing post Dean. What Trippi did was simply recognize the
value of the blogosphere and harnessed it for his campaign. He didn't
create it. In exchange for $20 million raised online the Dean campaign
gave the blogosphere political legitimacy' ...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/2/21/195435/436

Kos is beginning to sound a bit like Grossman. All those DNC dollars
twinkling in his eyes, has left him a bit dizzy..."

FEB 22: WHEREIN THE TIDETH START TO TURNETH
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000060.html

From the Farm: "This whole notion concerns me greatly. While I think
it is great if people want to pour their efforts into voting for Howard
Dean and towards electing as many Dean delegates as possible to the
Democratic National Convention. I think people need to understand the
reality so that those that make the effort are not disappointed by the
outcome. .... We have made change already, but what we all do in the
next 254 days can make a huge difference in the near term and for
future generations to continue to move the experiment of our democracy
and our republic towards the restoration of government of the people,
by the people and for the people. ... We had a great day out at the
farm, and after everyone went to bed I jumped online to catch up with
what many have commented on here and elsewhere."

FEB 23: EARNING OUR KEEPETH: EATETH, TALKETH, WORKETH ON THE FARMETH
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000064.html

"Taylor spoke broadly about the importance of farming, of getting one's
hands in the earth, and today we did just that: after a long leisurely
breakfast of the most delectable goodies... we took to doing chores
around the Farm to earn our keep. ... For starters, Kathy told us there
was a huge willow tree that had been uprooted in a storm. It needed to
be broken down and cleared out...
----------
Nicco & Jim doing chores today on the Farm - photo by John Pettitt

We toiled away for a couple of hours sawing up dead wood, carting it
around to the woodshed. There was an astonishing amount of work to be
done, and I gained a greater appreciation for our forbearers. ... This
weekend on the Farm, sans WiFi, has been enormously difficult for me.
How pathetically addicted to the technology I am! And in the end ...
the success of the Dean campaign has nothing to do with technology. It
has to do with ordinary people, meeting in small groups, in their
neighborhoods, to talk about the issues that matter to them ... I've
been inspired to hear the different people gathered at the Farm this
weekend talk about their own values, hopes, ideas, concerns for the
country. .."

FEB 23: A SOLEMN MOMENT IN THE FALLING LIGHT BEFORE DARKNESS
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000066.html

"All but a few of us have headed home, with a commitment to stay
together and stay organized. Every bed on the farm was taken, as well
as every couch, floor space, a barn, and a couple motel rooms in town.
About 40 of us showed up¡ªyoung and old, men and women, staff and
interns and volunteers. No one was turned away. ... We broke into three
groups and each drafted a mission statement and a set of goals and
objectives for the future of Change for America. ... The most moving
moment was just before sunset, when Joe Trippi asked who would be
willing to commit to sticking together, to continue to fight for the
change that began with Howard Dean¡¯s campaign and that so many of us
have worked for. Every hand went up."

FEB 25: WHEREIN THE PACT MARKETH THE DAY OF THE PHOENIX AT CUMMINGS
CREEK
http://www.changeforamerica.com/blog/archives/000072.html

February 25, 2004

We drafted the following statement. It is the final product of our
gathering and the founding document of Change for America.

CUMMINGS CREEK COMPACT

Today, by signing this letter, we reaffirm our commitment to bringing
change to this country ... Although we lost the Democratic nomination,
our campaign still won: we changed Americans politics forever. We
awoke the Democratic Party and showed how to take on George W. Bush¡ªand
defeat him... And this is only the beginning. ... Change for America
will be a national organization that unites progressive communities and
sets an agenda of meaningful reform... Two weeks from now, our movement
will come together in a series of summits across the country, convening
in Boston, New York, Washington, Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, San
Francisco, Seattle, Minneapolis and Denver. We want every group
associated with the campaign to be represented. Together, we will all
shape the platform and mission of Change for America.

(** DRAMATIST'S NOTE: Some may recall that there were no women
signatories to the CCC. All of the women listed below were added
hastily within the next 24 hours, as were additional signees. ++ =
added later)

Adam Mordecai
Andrew Rossmeissl
-- -Anne Lindsay
Becca Doten
Ben Self
Brett Heath-Wlaz
Clay Johnson
David Bender
David Temple
--- Geri Weis-Corbley
Gray Brooks
Janine Gottlieb
Jascha Franklin-Hodge
Jennifer Boysko
Jennifer Powers
Jesse Davidson
Jim Brayton
Joe Drymala
Joe Rospars
Joe Trippi
Jon Haber
John Pettitt
John Wadsworth
Justin Pinder
Karl Frisch
Kathy Lash
--- Kimberly Krautter
--- Kimmy Cash
--- Laura Williams
--- Lauren Shannon
--- Lisa Iannucci
--- Liz Herbert
Mark Sundeen
--- Mary O'Sullivan
Mathew Gross
Michael Silberman
Mike Carvalho
Nicco Mele
--- Patty McIntosh
++ Rob Nesvacil
Rob Stryker
++ Steve Rosov
Tim Jones
Tom Limoncelli
Tony Lyon
--- Willoughby Thorn

Posted by Joe Trippi at February 25, 2004 12:11 PM | TrackBack

by rhfactor 2005-01-14 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
If we examine this and learn from it, it won't divide us.

Zephyr was the one to impugn others on her side.

It's what the GOP does all the time.  They get the victim to tighten their own noose.  They distract, divide, destroy.

Their fingerprints are never at the scene of the crime.

If we face right up to it, and don't allow it to work, they'll stop using the tactic.

by Patricia Taylor 2005-01-14 02:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
What about Begala? What the hell is his problem equating these two stories? Is he on the Bush payroll too? With liberal media "friends" like Begala we don't need enemies.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-14 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
I actually call what Paul Begala did today on Crossfire (and what he did to Dean in the primary) "begalaling" now.

He invented it, he should get credit for it.

by Patricia Taylor 2005-01-14 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Nice Trippi/Zephyr one-two combo backstab
I agree that this is a one-two punch.  It is both a vertical and a hortizontal ambush.

Horizontal -

First punch - Trippi endorsing Rosenberg on MSNBC.

Second punch - Teachout teasing a story anonymously on her blog, then speaking to WSJ, then outting herself, then the WSJ story hits.  That's a rollout, IMO.

Vertical -

Dean is the short term target.

Blog communication is the long term target.

The item is a way for the Democrats to internally invalidate Dean because Dean is running on his use of the internet to fundraise and organize the grassroots and his authenticity and straight forwardness.

The item also creates a nice cover and dilution of the Armstrong affair, and a debate attack to be used by the GOP against any Democrats who have a remnant of a spine left to engage in a discussion of ethics violations in that situation.

I think if you disagree with this situation, you should write directly to media outlets and tell them so.  Perhaps they'll cover the objection to their coverage of the story when they keep covering this thing over the next month.

by Patricia Taylor 2005-01-14 02:30PM | 0 recs
Did she actually speak to the WSJ?
They may have called her to comment on thier story, though, but I sure that would be the only contact, not the other way around.

I'm actually of the opinion that "She's an idiot" (or at least wildly naive) is the problem here-assuming her charge is true (that they hired and then overpaid Kos and Jerome to get good blog press).

by Geotpf 2005-01-14 03:36PM | 0 recs
Serios question...
How long after she strategized and attempted to implement the techniques she now decries did Zephyr's crisis of conscience kick in?

I am just trying to create the mental timeline.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris 2005-01-14 11:50AM | 0 recs
why so defensive?
Why are you and kos so defensive?  I found these sites after the primaries through DFA--I fell in love with blogging.  Isn't it called the netroots after grassroots--an organizing term?

You have a point of view and you hammer away at it. There is nothing nuetral about mydd or dailykos.   By being so defensive you are acting as if you did something wrong.  It has always been clear to me that you and kos take money from the establishment--that's what consulting firms do.  Look at the ads to the left--it is all the same.

There are lots of things I don't agree with you on--especially this site's and daily kos subtext to vote democratic or else--but everybody knows you guys are supporters of Dean and the Dems. That's why we tune in.

If Dean can't handle a discussion on his financial support of bloggers--an art form he practically created-- then he is in trouble.

by aiko 2005-01-14 12:13PM | 0 recs
It's justified.
Trippi and Zephyr knew almost nothing about the net at the beginning of all this. Trippi total experience was reading and posting on a message board. Zepher could barely keep her e-mail together.

Trippi and Zephry made this play to take the entire credit for the Dean net explosion, and to discredit the candidate and actual internet innovators who generated the ideas.

I know for a fact how little respect Zephyr has for giving credit where credit is due. I had long shouting matches on the phone with Zephyr over this very subject, saw where it was headed, and stepped away without a word to anyone so that Dean would not be hurt.

by afs 2005-01-14 12:19PM | 0 recs
Re: why so defensive?
I don't really feel too overly defensive about being included in this whole thing, but I guess seeing how Zephyr's personal quest spills over and reflects badly on others (answering reporters questions today about 'whether Dean knew'), does get me on the horse a bit.

But as to the issue of what this site is about, you're totally right, of course.

by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-14 12:27PM | 0 recs
Jerome you have handled this bruhaha very well
Dean hates what the Republicans stand for but he is very impressed with their methods.

So am I, that is why I wrote "Save our Zephyr" the pressure was just mounting and it had to be released. This was a no win situation it was a mistake and should not have been said...no doubt about it. Just like when Cheney made an ass out of himself on the floor of Congress telling Leahy to "Go fuck himself".

Looking back with 20/20 hindsight what would have been the absolute worst thing Bush could have said(well not him but his twerp of a press officer) regarding Cheney who was 100% WRONG?

What would have happened if that little twerp was told to announced to the press corp that Bush's response was "Fuck You Cheney"... answer: it would have given Democrats a stick to beat him over the head with.

Instead he embraced the rat bastard...and told the world that the outburst "Made Cheney feel better". He didn't even bother to try and justify it.

We have to learn how to diffuse these non-issues before they become issues. There are times when yelling from the top of the mountain is totally appropriate and there are times when you just have to be smart about it... But reading some of diaries made me cringe (not yours)... all that lashing out and but NOT TAKING CONTROL OF THE SITUATION or the UPPER HAND. There is something to the adage don't get mad get even...

Today the GOP got a double whammy because that is how they think...they got to attack Dean AND the leftwing blogsphere...two of the most dangerous entities to them... not bad take for just twist of a phrase.

Does this make Dean weak: No This just shows how dangerous the GOP sees Dean...you don't see them trying to attack any of the other candidates... because they aren't afraid of the others...the hit on the left blogs was just an added bonus.

But the key is here is that they THINK before they speak...they create their frame and then broadcast it and repeat it endlessly. They don't just blindly attack.

I believe you were very smart today. And you are right it has gone too far now and Z has to step up to the plate. Just like when Rummy has to come clean (every now and then) when the WH can't cover for him anymore.

But all this talk about creating a new paradigm in communication in the party seems like this is a good time to start putting all those ideas, framing, rapid response, coodinated messaging ...into action.

...if this is too sanctimonious you can tell me to "Fuck Off" I really won't mind...

by Parker 2005-01-14 12:48PM | 0 recs
Your example doesn't work.
Cheney was a Big Dog Wingnut Repub second only to Bush. Remember how the MSM credited Cheney with bringing knowledge, gravitas and "adulthood" to the ticket?

If Zephyr were a wayward wingbot blogger or functionary she'd know better. She'd know that her gravy train was about to be derailed. She'd know that she'd first be set up and knocked down like a bowling pin 'til she'd be happy with an assistant IT job at Fargo, ND Elementary.

Neither Jerome nor Kos should retaliate but she should definitely be shunned and actively--- but discreetly--- destroyed.

Unfortunately (or, maybe, fortunately) we don't have a Norquist to act as an enforcer and we don't have interlocking funding multi-billionares to deny her work in a progressive propaganda machine.

I think that it's a shame that we can't cut her off at the knees and make her dance. She gave the Mighty Wingnut Wurlitzer a distraction and a way say "See. EVERYONE does it."

by Southern Patriot 2005-01-14 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Your example doesn't work.
I wasn't comparing the positions but the reactions. Cheney was wrong and he made Bush look bad. Rummy makes Bush look bad every day...ironically the only person that makes Bush look good...Powel..is the only one that the administration feeds to the dogs.
by Parker 2005-01-14 01:33PM | 0 recs
Screw Zephyr...
I'd much rather talk about grammar.  God damn it, Jerome.  The word "I" can only be used as a frigging subject.  "Me" is the proper word to use as the object of a preposition.

"Markos and I" went to D.C. to give Zephyr a wedgie.... Correct.

Zephyr was a big fucking shithead to Markos and "me"....  Correct.

On multiple occasions, Zephyr had wild sex and fired up several doobies in the back of the Grassroots Express with Markos and I.

WRONG.  It's "ME" god damn it.

Now, don't let me see you do this again.

by NCDem 2005-01-14 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Screw Zephyr...
Ah that again, yea, I think about you everytime I get to one of those points. It just goes to show that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to talking about me, myself and I.
by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-14 01:02PM | 0 recs
It's my potty and I'll go if I want to.
"wingnuts fearful of a Dean DNC chairmanship reinvigorating the democratic party?" My only question is what will happen if Dean doesn't get the chairmanship? Will you support a less progressive DNC chair the way I'll support Dean although I call myself a moderate? Will we be mature here or what? Just wondering?
by lobejammer 2005-01-14 12:43PM | 0 recs
please try to get along
This is about progressive politics--it is not about a man named Howard Dean.

Just like we all got on the bandwagon and supported a man from Massachusetts despite the fact he couldn't speak progressive if he tried.

We are in this together and we want the best democratic party we can muster--not the one I grew up on.

Dean speaks truth to power and isn't afraid of insulting the status quo.  He is my man but I am still going to fight for the democratic party with or with out him and so will these bloggers and so will Dean.

get with the program.

by aiko 2005-01-14 12:52PM | 0 recs
Please tell Trippi and Zephyr to try to get along
Trippi and Zephyr are the ones running to the M$M to tell tall tales about good Dems. Tell THEM to try to get along. We're just cleaning up the wreckage thrown around in their wake.
by afs 2005-01-14 01:07PM | 0 recs
Sorry for my mood...
But who, exactly, in the hell do you think you are?  No... Jerome's gonna be "immature", throw up his hands, and proclaim Nader and Dean as co-saviors of the world.  Don't be a jackass, and don't call the Blogfather "immature".  He has been publicly dragged through the mud in a very widely circulated newspaper, and he's fucking pissed off, as anyone would be...  Give him a break.   Little piss-ants like yourself who jump onto this website without any frame of reference whatsoever... who have the nerve to ask Jerome if he will "support" a future DNC chair... asking Jerome if he has it in himself to be "mature"... why don't you "just wonder" to yourself instead of wondering out loud, because you're really out of your element, Donny.
by NCDem 2005-01-14 01:00PM | 0 recs
He's not the only one.
I'm pissed off too.

Damn it. When the hell are people in the Democratic party going to quit undercutting those who are doing the most good. They took down Dean like this. Now one of our own tries to go and start up another controversy over nothing, in the processes undercutting Dean, Jerome and Markos all in one ill-thought post on her pet project of blogger ethics? Give me a break.

I'm beyond disappointed now. I'm pissed.

by michael in chicago 2005-01-14 01:31PM | 0 recs
If you can't stand the heat....
It just seems to me that anyone who takes public positions needs to be able to take the heat - and it's particularly disingenuous for folks who take the Republicans to task for their lack of ethics, to be unwilling to engage in a discussion of what constitutes appropriate ethics for this new medium.

Journalists get pinged all the time (take a look at - http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/725872/posts for what happened to my wife, a while back).

I get dinged all the time.  

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen - but don't start getting defensive and taking holier than thou positions.

by mfidelman 2005-01-14 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: If you can't stand the heat....
i think that you should read a bit more about the issue and then reconsider your comment about being willing to take the heat.

first, i think that both kos and jerome have demonstrated that they are willing to take heat.

second, this isn't about them getting "called out."  it's about one idiot who had a little inside knowledge spewing false allegations in an attempt to establish her own "blogging" credentials.  what she said was incredibly misleading and what she implied was factually wrong.  what she left out would have made the whole issue moot.

she also threw around words like "our" and "we" without explaining who was included in that designation thereby leaving the door open to right wing interpretation.

finally, she held up as evidence of "bad ethics," an issue which was thoroughly discussed a year ago and, at the time and again now, generally concluded to be totally ethical behavior, no matter how stringent your standards are.

the result however, has been to give the GOP a come back to the armstrong williams (et al) propoganda payolagate charges (allbeit totally unequal situations).  it has also tarred dean in his campaign for DNC chair.  i'm agnotic on that race, but i don't think it's fair to smear his name with innuendo nor do i think it is appropriate for dem political operatives to be starting party mud slinging contests when we've got a much bigger common enemy.

by corndog 2005-01-14 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: If you can't stand the heat....
What kind of idiot are you? Jerome, Chris and Kos are firing back and standing up for themselves and for their principles in the face of a biased and bogus comparison to the Bush administration paying Armstrong with taxpayer dollars.

The over-used hackneyed phrase "if you can't take the heat ..." is a lame attempt to try to discredit people who are simply defending their position and integrity. What's "holier than thou" about standing up for yourself, your reputation and your principles?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-14 02:09PM | 0 recs
One thing about what y'all are saying about Zephyr
Say what you will about Trippi backstabbing Dean, but don't get confused about Zephyr writing that entry to somehow hurt his DNC candidacy. I think it's fair to say that she would never want to do anything that might hurt his reputation. She's known Howard for a long time -- I believe her family knows Dean pretty well.  So, say your say all of you, but let me tell you you're getting it wrong if you think Zephyr wrote that to hurt Dean.
by janfrel 2005-01-14 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: One thing about what y'all are saying about Ze
what's worse, ignorance or intention?

i think you're right since it is my understanding that she recently strongly endorsed him for DNC chair.

however, in her rush to build a quick reputation for some upcoming conference on blogging, she said, "HEY WORLD!! we need to talk about ethics because back at the Dean campaign WE HAD A SERIOUS ETHICAL PROBLEM!!"

it was a fat pitch down the middle for dean's opponents and for the right.

what's even more mind boggling (to me) is her continued attempts to bring this discussion back to her broader theme of ethics.  she drops an unbelievably inflammatory story about Dean and blogs and then expects everyone to focus instead on something else.

by corndog 2005-01-14 01:24PM | 0 recs
Right on the money -- self interest
Again, all the "Oh my God! I never knew the microphone was on!  I thought i was just making a few private remarks, and next thing you know they're on national television! I feel so bad."

Mm-hmm. It was just a hastily thrown together "temporary blog..."

-- with the obviously carefully chosen name "Zonkette".  

Translation: "temporary" as in "I am starting a new blog called Zonkette, and like everyone does, I am getting it started using free Blogger software because it's easy and fast. But all the while I am having my Geek-squad build me a state of the art CivicSpace-driven full-featured blog of the same name.  And as soon as it is ready, the Blogger 'temporary' home will cease to exist as I route everyone to:

http://www.zonkette.com "

Registration Service Provided By: Neureal, Inc.
Domain name: ZONKETTE.COM
Creation date:   20 May 2004   19:36:39
Expiration date:     20 May 2005   19:36:39

"Naturally, I was never intending to have a public blog called ZONKETTE... this was just a place where I wanted to just put up a few private thoughts and links in prep for a PUBLIC CONFERENCE."

Spin, Zephyr, spin.

How sad that this is your legacy.

by rhfactor 2005-01-14 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: One thing about what y'all are saying about Ze
No, I don't think Zepyhr thought it out, by saying "we" and "our", that's what I am saying needs clarifying.
by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-14 01:45PM | 0 recs
Zephyr's response
 Some context
There's so much I want to say about this Wall Street Journal article and the reaction its inspired, but I'm going to save most of it for next week, when I have time to write something more thoughtful. In the meantime, I do have a few thoughts that I think are important to give context to the article.

I wrote the post below, which cause the WSJ to write the story, in preparation for an upcoming conference on blogging, credibility, and journalism at the Berkman Center. I was using an example from my own experience to illustrate some of the thorny framing issues that come up with blogging and consulting. I thought the real world examples would help people think and talk in concrete ways about the pressures and players involved. I certainly didn't expect it to be picked up by anyone (this is a temporary blog I was using (at the time) for links for the conference), and I'm mad that its been misused, but I think talking openly about this stuff is important. (But good god, I reacted to the line in the article that said I thought bloggers needed to "rethink their ethics" (uggh! Schoolmarmy!) much the way you probably did! I don't know what I think yet -- I think a code sounds silly, norms are important, and I'm not sure which norms.)

What was going on in the campaign? It was the wild west days of blogging, and we were supporting supporters -- ones we didn't want to leave. The metaphor I used with the Wall Street Journal (not published) was that were like a small, young band that finds these amazingly talented fans who are flyering for our singer, and getting all these people to the concerts. We wanted to support them to make sure they kept flyering, and didn't go off to another band - it was thrilling and new, and it was a chance to pay people for something that they loved to do. We were all, collectively, inventing things - and since the invention was coming from the web, we were supporting the some of the lead innovators.

The Right is trying to use this genuine community discussion about norms in the blogosphere to neutralize the No Child Left Behind Bribe. The two aren't comparable and any reasonable person will see that right away. There's a big difference between between a camapign supporting its supporters in a medium that has not yet figured out a business model, and the GOVERNMENT paying a widely known commentator for specific policy support. We never tried to hide the relationship - it was covered, as the WSJ notes, in several publications at the time. Furthermore, we were not paying for political content and we weren't the government! Government propaganda is not the same as primary politics, and people don't, and shouldn't treat them the same.

Thanks in advance for engaging in this in a serious, curious, open way.

posted by z at 1:37 PM 0 comments

by Parker 2005-01-14 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Zephyr's response
Makes perfect sense to me.  The series of conferences that the Berkman Center is holding are pretty interesting (at least the last one was) - and these are the issues that need to be discussed.  

The timing might not be the greatest - what with the DNC Chair race and all - but chances are, if not this, something else will get thrown at Gov. Dean - and he'll do a good job of dealing with it.

To an earlier point: yes, Jerome, Chris and Kos are doing just fine staking out their positions.

What I'm getting tire of are people attacking Zephyr for even raising the issue.  I'm getting even tireder of what seems to be a development in the blogosphre of people who want bloggers accorded the rights of journalists (e.g., access, immunity from some kinds of prosecution) but can't take a little heat in a discussion of ethics.  Heated discussion of what is, and is not appropriate goes with the territory.  So do attacks on one's ethics, and defending them.

(And before anybody accuses me of being a troll - I was a Reich Delegate in MA, a Dean supporter, and a member of my local Ward committee - which has endorsed Gov. Dean for the DNC Chair.)

by mfidelman 2005-01-14 02:54PM | 0 recs
How to raise ethical questions/issues...
someone who is seriously interested in a discussion of ethics is not going to do so by raising questions about the ethics of specific individuals.   They will do so by posing a general question.  

Now, if Zephyr was interested solely in the ethical questions involved that she wanted raised during the conference on "Journalism, Blogging, and Credibility" she would have posted something like...

"Most news organizations have a strict prohibitions against journalists taking money from those they write about.   When George Will was paid by a politican campaign with debate preparation, then wrote about the debate in his syndicated column, most people recognized it as a violation of journalistic ethics.

But what happens when a blogger takes money from those he writes about?  Does the subjective nature of blogging change the ethical equation in any degree?   Is there a difference between a blogger who accepts campaign advertising, and one who provides non-political technology assistance to a campaign?   What kind of "best practices" can we suggest to bloggers who want to operate ethically?   Is the presence of an ad, or a general disclaimer, on a website enough to tell the reader that the blogger has a financial relationship with a campaign, or should the existence of the ad be disclaimed whenever the blogger posts about that campaign?"

THAT is how a mature person who is interested solely in the ethical questions involved would have approached the issue.  

What Zephyr did, in fact, was unethical.  Why she is taking part in the Berkman Center panel that will include a discussion of blogging ethics, when she so clearly lacks ethics herself, is beyond me.

by p lukasiak 2005-01-15 03:56AM | 0 recs
Are you stupid or just naive?
I'm leaning towards BOTH.

So you thought that it might, oh, I don't know--- SPICE UP some esoteric, academic conference about blogging to tell tales out of school about the Dean campaign.

"The Right is trying to use this genuine community discussion about norms in the blogosphere to neutralize the No Child Left Behind Bribe. The two aren't comparable and any reasonable person will see that right away. There's a big difference between between a camapign supporting its supporters in a medium that has not yet figured out a business model, and the GOVERNMENT paying a widely known commentator for specific policy support."

Jeebus! Were you in a coma when the Right made Gore the laughingstock of the nation for "inventing the Internet?"  Were you cramming for some final while they made toast of Kerry's war record?

If you haven't tumbled onto the fact that the wingnuts play fast and loose with facts AND that you ought to keep some things about a political campaign to yourself then maybe you ought to try out for the part of a "blogger" on "West Wing" 'cause you're more of an idiotic loose cannon than a help to the progressive cause.

I don't even believe that you're attempting to justify your actions rather than taking the offensive, writing a slashing op/ed for the WSJ and asking forgiveness from your compatriots.

by Southern Patriot 2005-01-14 03:37PM | 0 recs
For what it's worth...
First off, of course a net-savvy campaign would want bloggers to support them and of course there will be a time (as soon as two years from now) where primary candidates for the GOP and Dem. nomination will be aggressively courting bloggers.  To say otherwise would be naive (although one wonders why they would pay you when you were largely doing it for free -- given that you persuaded me and presumably other readers to check out Dean a year before a vote was cast before you were being paid).

Second, you and Kos did the proper thing concerning disclosure at the time.  It was admirable, in part because there weren't many previous instances of bloggers paid by a campaign.  Of course it isn't similar to Armstrong Williams, precisely because the disclosure was so obvious to anyone reading mydd or kos (as well as the disclosures -- hell, I even contacted you out of the blue for help/advice for Dean/Missouri stuff during the early days of DFA because I knew you were going to work for Dean from your website (PS:  you guys really shouldn't have taken Gephardt that seriously, but I can see why).

Third, you refer to Zephyr's as an "ethics for blogging crusade".  Having no background on the precise context concerning this), I can't comment, except that the idea of disclosure for bloggers is important.  The age in which consultants will hire bloggers for fundraising or publishing oppo research or whatever is upon us.  Disclosure that a  candidate is paying you while posting, say, something negative about an opponent is critical (imagine if a blogger paid by Gephardt hadn't disclosed that when attacking Dean's record as Vt. government or brought up his statements about the IA caucuses... we would have yelled and screamed and justifiably so).  

Having had the privilege of meeting Zephyr and having corresponded with  you, I like and respect both of you.  It was the first (and probably last) campaign I was involved in and I rather enjoyed the people I met.  Honestly, I'm long past the point where I know or care what happened in Burlington during the campaign and hope all of us try to stop throwing mud as a result of what happened in a previous campaign -- and attempt to focus on the next one.

by ChrisR 2005-01-14 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: For what it's worth...
Yea, I don't think what happended in the campaign is all that interesting now either. They'll be a couple of "ethics" articles that come out of this, so I'll have more to say about it later.
by Jerome Armstrong 2005-01-14 02:22PM | 0 recs
What about Jennings role in this story?
It amazes me that the so called liberal media is the first one to attack liberals. Michael Moore and now dkos and MyDD. If Jennings and the media are so "liberal" why aren't they attacking LGF and Instapundit?

The same thing amazed me when I watched Scarborough the other night during a commercial. He had a quote from some former CBS exec I had never heard about that had complained about CBS being too liberal. Far from proving Scarborough's point that the MSM was too liberal, I thought it proved our point that the media owners and corporate media decision makers are very conservative.

We have never had a liberal MSM in this country and never will. The fact that the RWCM encourage the "liberal" media meme because it serves their political and economic interests is the proof of the pudding.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-14 02:15PM | 0 recs
what did i say this morning
about the VRWC using this to smear us?

jeebus, i'll be back when everybody is done talking about this non-story.  

by annatopia 2005-01-14 02:28PM | 0 recs
Williams Not The Issue
I don't think many people are using the Dean consulting payments to defend Armstrong Williams. A quick check of conservative, libertarian, and Republican leaning websites seems to indicate that his arrangement met with near universal scorn, both for him and the Dept. of Education. I think Kos' comment that all conservative pundits should be presumed on the take until proven otherwise invited a strong response, and he appeared somewhat hypocritical in light of the payments he received from the Dean campaign.

People are talking about the Dean payments because it's an interesting issue. We'd be shocked if a newspaper reporter or publisher had a political consulting business on the side, never mind whether he/she covered the candidates for whom he/she consulted. As blogs evolve from personal journals to widely available sources of news and commentary, there's going to be an issue as to how much of mainstream media ethics is applicable. Disclosure would seem to be a basic requirement, but is it enough? I don't think there's a consensus yet.

What's interesting is that over at Kos there were many comments denouncing the disclosures as defamatory falsehoods spread by the right wing. When it was shown that apparently correct info was coming from a Dean insider, many then said it didn't matter because it was disclosed, but then attacked Zephyr in the ad hominem manner many at that site and here can't seem to get beyond. If it's not a big deal why is the response so personal?

It appears that the only bone of contention is whether Jerome and Kos were paid a premium as neophyte political consultants because of the perception that their blogs would also look favorably upon the Dean candidacy. Perhaps not much of an issue here since MY DD was shut down during the primary season, but again it's an issue worth considering for blogs in general. Since Kos has indicated that there are some situations in which he wouldn't disclose his consulting work, I don't see the issue just going away.

by SLinVA 2005-01-14 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Williams Not The Issue
you wrote, "the only bone of contention is whether Jerome and Kos were paid a premium as neophyte political consultants"

I understand they were paid $3,000 a month each...this is a premium?  Maybe it was twice the going rate of a staff salary, but consultants have to pay the employeer side of if SS taxes and other overhead...

If you know any thing about consulting fees, you know that 3 grand a month is peanuts.

by KBowe 2005-01-15 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Williams Not The Issue
I didn't say that they were paid an exorbitant sum, the issue is whether they were paid more than those with greater experience, because of their blogosphere prominence. That's the issue raised by the initial Zephyr comment. Lots of folks work for peanuts, or for free, in political campaigns, except of course the top-of-the-line political consultants.
by SLinVA 2005-01-15 08:22AM | 0 recs
Interesting
It will be interesting to see what happens.  I'm already getting press interviews.
by kydem 2005-01-14 07:32PM | 0 recs
mydd
If he was going to take this much grief, I wish JA had not shut down mydd for what felt like an eternity. Whether he did it for ethical reasons or just lack of time, it was missed during that time.

I know personally that if I hadn't read so much of it during late 2002 early 2003 -- long before he went "on the take" -- I never would have cared about Dean or gotten interested in politics again.

by desmoulins 2005-01-15 07:05AM | 0 recs
i want link you
Shanghai Lily Bearing Manufacturing Co.,Ltd Lily bearings, inc.
We are a professional manufacturer and trader of bearings and other industrial products which is making all kinds of bearings such as flange ball bearings , thrust ball bearings ,ceramic ball bearings , stainless steel bearings , special bearings , Miniature Ball Bearing ,Angular Contact Ball Bearings ,Tapered Roller Bearing ,Needle Roller Bearings , Self-Aligning Ball Bearing , Spherical Plain Radial bearings and Rod Ends , Thrust Self- Aligning Roller Bearing , Pressed Economic Bearings , Insert Ball Bearing Units , Automotive Bearings , Double Row Deep Groove Ball Bearing , Water Pump Bearings , Insert Ball Bearings , Cylindrical Roller Bearings , etc.

Ningbo xinxing Pneumatic Goods Co., Ltd. xinxing ail tools, inc.
Ningbo xinxing Pneumatic Goods Co., Ltd.is Join venture which is speciallzing in producing of all kind of Pneumatic tools such as air tools, Air angle grinder , Air impact wrench, High speed air drill , In-Line air drill , Revrsible Air Drill ,KEYLESS AIR DRILL , DRIVE AIR RATCHET WRENCH , AIR D . A .SANDER , AIR ANGLE SANDER , PROFESSIONAL SANDER , AIR BODY SAW , AIR IMPACT SCREW DRIVER , JITTERBUG SANDER , AIR MULETIPLE NEEDLE SCALER ,AIR HAMMER , AIR DIE GRINDER KIT , AIR CUTTER-GRINDER KIT , AIR TOOL KIT , AIR IMPACT WRENCH KIT , AIR HAMMER KIT , AIR DRILL KIT , SHANK CHISELS , AIR MICRO DIE GRINDER KIT ,AIR ACCESSORY KIT , AIR LINE OILER ,AIR BLOW GUN ,MONTED STONE , QUICK COUPLER BRASS SET , AIR REGULATOR , GRINDING STONE , MINI REGULAOR , SWIVEL CONNECTOR , PAD OF6”SANDER , NPT(M) Q.C.PLUG , NPT (F)QUICK COUPLIER ,NPT M&F THREADS etc.

Well Way Electrical Co, Ltd. Well Way weatherproof fluorescent fixture, inc.
Well Way Electrical Co, Ltd. is speciallzing in producing of all kind of outdoor fluorescent fixture , waterproof fixture fluorescent , weatherproof fluorescent fixture , ip65 fluorescent fixture etc

China Ningbo Redfir Hi-Tech Board Industry Co., Ltd hongshan aluminum aluminium composite panel, inc.
China Ningbo Redfir Hi-Tech Board Industry Co., Ltd is speciallzing in producing of all kind of aluminum composite panel, aluminium composite panel, aluminum plastic composite panel,aluminium plastic composite panel etc China Saivs Casting CO.,LTD. is one of specialized manufacturer and exporter of various casting including Lost wax casting ,Investment casting,Pressure die casting ,Stainless Steel Casting , Steel Casting,quick coupling,aluminium casting,Die casting,aluminum casting,sand casting in China.Manufacturer of China.Product of China.Supplier of China.Factory of China.Exporter of China.Kaiyuan Pneumatic Engineering Co.,Ltd.main products are air source treat-ment element, solenoid valve,penumatic fitting,pneumatic components,pneumatic cylinder etc.NingBo Grand Fiberglass CO.,LTD. main products are fiberglass,fiberglass mesh ,fiberglass tape ,drywall joint tape,self adhesive fiberglass tape,FRP grating,FRP profile etc.
by 2005-08-18 06:12PM | 0 recs
by 2005-09-11 06:16PM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads