Deabte Open Thread

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88 Comments

Re: Deabte Open Thread
If this isn't a wash, I'll be surprised. Besides, Anna already has screenshots of what the debate spin will be:
http://annatopia.com/home.html
by Jerome Armstrong 2004-09-30 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
I change my mind, Bush looks like an idiot, he's totally unprepared. He's been telling his handlers to not overload him with prep work, and it looks like he's done nothing at all in terms of preperation.  He's winging it for the most part.
by Jerome Armstrong 2004-09-30 05:26PM | 0 recs
debates
Kerry must always refer to bush as "my opponent"...bush is guaranteed to do the same..if it comes to being questionsed, , "I'll call my opponent "President" if he will call me "Senator"!
by hambro 2004-09-30 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
All the talking heads seem to think (and I agree a bit) that it will be difficult for Kerry to attack Bush on the "War on Terror" without Bush falling back on his standard "Don't send the troops mixed signals" speech. While Kerry has recently put forth the argument that Iraq is a diversion from the real fight against terrorism, shouldn't he go about it in a way that resonates a bit more?

Specifically: If Osama Bin Laden directed 9/11, why isn't Bush sending 100k troops to catch him? Why did Bush get us stuck in Iraq when Enemy No. 1 is on the loose? Where's the beef, dubya? You only sent 10000 troops to Afghanistan, and that's where the real terrorists were! So what's this really all about?

It seems to me that Kerry needs to take a simple and direct approach on this in order to illustrate the true weakness of Bush's plans to fight terrorism. I hope he'll do that tonight.

by praveen 2004-09-30 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
I know that CSPAN provides the best unfiltered coverage, but which network station do you guys suggest i watch to get the best sense of the spin?  Do most people still ge their news from NBC?
by BRockNYLA 2004-09-30 03:37PM | 0 recs
Rapid Reblogger...
Is this site connected to this?

http://www.oliverwillis.com/rapidreblogger
"Tonight, for the debate, we are going to have a network of bloggers, ready to fact check every single thing George says. The RNC is going to have live debunking, and we are going to have a feed devoted to specifically debunk their debunking. If you would like to syndicate tonights events on your site, please use one of the below feeds. We also are providing javascript versions for those of you who prefer html."

by Newsie8200 2004-09-30 03:45PM | 0 recs
Bushisms On DVD
Have any of you guys heard about this dvd? can you buy it in stores? i saw the website - www.bushism.net - I guess Al Franken and Brian Unger are in it?
by helmut 2004-09-30 03:49PM | 0 recs
What if...
What if Kerry brings up THIS:

http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

...about how Bushco authorized 9/11

Anyone else read this radio transcript? I am not sure what to make of it...

by ShatteredMind 2004-09-30 04:13PM | 0 recs
CBS Opinion Tracker
I know many partisans aren't happy with CBS News right now, but they have some sort of focus group live opinion tracker on their website. Could be interesting.
by Chris Bowers 2004-09-30 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Gut feeling here. I have been watching tweety. They had interviews with both Tucker Eskew and Tad Devine. Eskew seemed extremely defensive, like they were very, very nervous about this debate while Devine seemed extremely confident.

Bush made, I believe, a big mistake in inisisting on a 32 page debate plan. Devine was already tearing him apart about how he was afraid to go before the American people without hiding behind all these qualifications.

by Ga6thDem 2004-09-30 04:40PM | 0 recs
Ga6th . . .
God love ya' . . . you're a true optimist. You always believed Kerry would pull out the primaries, and he did.

fwiw, I'm with you. I think Kerry will win this. I think the GOP will spin it as a "wash" and "that's all Bush needed," and I think that's blunt the momentum some. But it'll also raise the numbers for the next debate.

I "think" Kerry will win, but I won't predict it. But here's one prediction for all y'all: contrary to history and expectations, the second debate will have better viewership than the first. And Kerry will do better in each debate.

So, that's two predictions, I guess . . .

by BriVT 2004-09-30 04:47PM | 0 recs
I hope Kerry shakes his hand and...
pats Bushy on the head.  Allright - that won't happen, but if Kerry puts his left hand on Bush's right shoulder and exaggerates looking down at Bush, it'll set the right body-language tone as Bush is forced to look up at him.

Kerry-in-charge.

by Mike Stark 2004-09-30 04:44PM | 0 recs
Ignore Bush
All this talk about Kerry needing to have a clear answer for Iraq or war on terror, etc is futile. No one remembers that sort of thing. It is simple, Kerry has to make an impression, that's it.

I think, for this reason, he should ignore Bush since it is not a dialog anyway. So with every answer, Kerry just needs to look in the camera and do a campaign ad. I think he should scare the heck out of folks with the existing backdoor draft and the looming Bush draft. That'll get young college age students and moms on our side. (I'm not opposed to the draft myself, but I will tow party line and talking points).

This is a great opportunity for Kerry. It is almost 40 minutes of free ad time, simply ignore Bush (and Lehrer if need be) and use it as a forty minute informercial.

by Ono 2004-09-30 04:51PM | 0 recs
Crowd Control
I'm watching the debate lead-up on CNN...is it my imagination, or do the Kerry supporters in the crowd outside outnumber the Bushies by HUGE MARGINS?  A good sign...
by BatmanRKC 2004-09-30 05:00PM | 0 recs
OH YEAH BABY
IT'S ON!!!!!!!!!
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:02PM | 0 recs
Also at the UnitedLeft
The United Left also has an open thread like this one, check it out.
by UL 2004-09-30 05:04PM | 0 recs
Not bad
He finished right on time....And I think he sounded good.
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:06PM | 0 recs
WOW!!!!
Great answer to question number 2.  Is it just me or does Bush look lost...
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:12PM | 0 recs
deer in the headlights look
He is lost.... as he stated repeatedly tonite, he doesn't want to send mixed signals
by Slapmaxwell 2004-09-30 06:46PM | 0 recs
Better Afghan spin...
would have been "instead, this President relied on Afghan Warlords who are more interested in their Heroin profits than stopping Al Queda.
by benmasel 2004-09-30 05:21PM | 0 recs
Maybe I am biased
But I think Kerry is kicking some serious ass right now.  I mean Bush has seemed a little shaken since question 1.  Bush tried to nail the Flip Flop and Kerry did a great job at deflection.
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe I am biased
Maybe I'm biased too, but I think Kerry is blowing Bush out of the water.

It helps that the podium comes up to Bush's neck and he looks like a petulant little brat.

by Bodot 2004-09-30 05:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe I am biased
Kerry is def. winning right now
by UL 2004-09-30 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe I am biased
Bush is not doing a very good job. He is repeating himself like a wind-up toy and he looks vacant. I hope most of the voters don't think this is ok.
by pinkvelcro 2004-09-30 05:38PM | 0 recs
NO NOT VIETNAM!!!!
Damn, I was hoping he would stay away from Vietnam.
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:30PM | 0 recs
Bush is pitiful. Kerry is kicking ass.
yeppieeeeeeeee
wow. bush's jokes are too old. they stopped being effective.
Kerry has command of the stage.
by gingina 2004-09-30 05:31PM | 0 recs
Good Comparison
I like the Pearl Harbor simile.  Nice...
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:31PM | 0 recs
Bush is losing it. He lost all coherence.
He is angry!!
by gingina 2004-09-30 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Alexander Krazumi of Poland?  Bush learned a new name!
by Jerome Armstrong 2004-09-30 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
You forgot Poland, lol.  What coalition is Bush dreaming about? Even Britian is about to cut loose.
by Jerome Armstrong 2004-09-30 05:35PM | 0 recs
Hmm
"I don't like when a candidate for President badmouths our allies" (Ok so I am paraphrasing)

That statement worries me a little...That is one of those bites that the media trumps up.  

by Michael 2004-09-30 05:36PM | 0 recs
Paul Begala's BLOG on CNN
Pretty good debate Play by Play
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/09/30/begala.blog/
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
don't forget the Polish! for God's sake, John, how can you win if you keep forgetting the Polish?!
by johnny longtorso 2004-09-30 05:39PM | 0 recs
Coalition of the willing
For the love of GOD man, don't lose us the Costa Ricans!!! How dare you mock the people's republic of Tonga!
by lowearthorbital 2004-09-30 06:28PM | 0 recs
rope-a-dope
Bush is gunna blow his stack before the night is over.

Best comment of the night:

Bush outsourced the job of catching Osama to Afghan warlords.

by Just Karl 2004-09-30 05:40PM | 0 recs
Novak's...Know thy enemy.
Bob Novak's Blog...Know thy enemy

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/09/30/novak.blog/

by Michael 2004-09-30 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Novak's...Know thy enemy.
Check this out:

Much easier task' for Bush

Posted: 9:01 p.m. ETn (Novak)

Bush has a much easier task tonight than Kerry. All he has to do is avoid making a big blunder. Kerry has to somehow convince that slender band of undecided voters that he is demonstrably more able than Bush to win the war on terrorism -- and to be likable in doing so

So, even if Kerry wins, he loses (according to the felonious columnist)

by lojo 2004-09-30 05:53PM | 0 recs
Let me finish???
What the hell was that?
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:42PM | 0 recs
Kerry Should Stop
Kerry doesn't need to fill 2 minutes...

Anyone else tired of wrong war at wrong time at wrong place?

by Michael 2004-09-30 05:48PM | 0 recs
Not an everyman
You break it, YOU BUY IT! you idiot.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 05:48PM | 0 recs
Bush needs new attack words
yes, we lost sensitivity to the republican attack jokes. i am kinda tired of hearing the same words from bush over and over. can this guy come up with something original.
by gingina 2004-09-30 05:51PM | 0 recs
I wish he'd said...
Bush said Kerry's plan isn't going to work.  Kerry should have said, "well maybe, but we already know for sure that Bush's plan isn't working."
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 05:51PM | 0 recs
Good question
Follow up...where will get the troops.  Bush already said that we could fight both Afghans and Iraqis. Follow up should have been...why the need for stop loss measures?
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 05:54PM | 0 recs
Bush is FLustered
Wow, he looks Terrible.  YEAH!!!
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:55PM | 0 recs
From Jessie Kleins CNN Blog
When Kerry is talking, the cutaway shot to Bush is hilarious - he looks the way a dog looks when he sees his reflection in the mirror - sort of confused, sort of curious, possibly ready to attack.
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:55PM | 0 recs
Back to the point
Good job bringing it back to Osama.  Has Bush even said the word Osama yet?  But JFK needs to not repeat his best line about outsourcing.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 05:57PM | 0 recs
Outsource line again
Man, that needs to be the sound bite.  God, I love that line.  
by Michael 2004-09-30 05:57PM | 0 recs
Strong
Kerry seems strong and determined.  Great point about Kennedy and prestige.  Bush seems flustered, confused, and befuddled.  Keeps repeating "I understand" exactly like someone who doesn't understand.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:01PM | 0 recs
heheheh, bush looks like a lost dog.
this has been an excellent humiliation of Bush. it is extremely entertaining to hear this guy blabber.
by gingina 2004-09-30 06:02PM | 0 recs
I'm actually going to watch CNN after this
in the false hope that Judy Woodruff will say that "Bush sucked"
by lojo 2004-09-30 06:02PM | 0 recs
Old people
Most of the country is now asleep.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:05PM | 0 recs
What's that I hear
Oh yeah, it's Bush's lead falling....

Although I still think Gore won the first Debate with Bush (and then lost it in the post spin) Bush looked a lot better in those debates then now.  It's like he really has to pee, but he can't do it.  Man, I could watch Bush for Hours like this and laugh my ass off.

by Michael 2004-09-30 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re: What's that I hear
I agree.  I think in the Gore Bush debates it was easier for Chimpy to dodge and lie and just be likeable while Gore looked ridiculous intoning about the "lockbox"
by lojo 2004-09-30 06:08PM | 0 recs
Troops
Where we getting the troops for this?  DRAFT?????
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:07PM | 0 recs
ooooo
I was waiting for him to mention the 'backdoor draft'
by seishi 2004-09-30 06:09PM | 0 recs
but he ever said Bush was a great debater?
he has been pitiful so far.
by gingina 2004-09-30 06:12PM | 0 recs
Disrespectful
Just like everyone said.  Bush keeps saying "My Opponent"
by OhioRepub 2004-09-30 06:13PM | 0 recs
Denial
Denial is not a policy
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:15PM | 0 recs
wilt?
Love the global warming and stem cell comment.
by pinkvelcro 2004-09-30 06:15PM | 0 recs
Sent an Email to CNN from Novaks BLOG
I said that Bush was out of touch and that Kerry was Steady and concise and mentioned I went from a Bush leaner to a vote for Kerry.  That's one of hopefully many.
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:16PM | 0 recs
Leash?
Did Bush really suggest that his daughters should "be on a leash"?
by KenD 2004-09-30 06:16PM | 0 recs
Daughters
B: I've tried to put a leash on them"

retort: I don't have that problem.

by benmasel 2004-09-30 06:17PM | 0 recs
Leash?
Did Bush really suggest that his daughters should "be on a leash"?
by KenD 2004-09-30 06:17PM | 0 recs
Ouch
Note to JFK:  Don't put down weapons research.  Opens door to Senate votes.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Trans-shipment? Anyone want to look up that word for me?
by sharris0512 2004-09-30 06:19PM | 0 recs
ohhh, this is ugly...
"Stop. <sobbing> Stop, he's already dead...."
-forgive the Simpson's reference, but at this point ,for the first time in 4 years, I'm actually feeling sympathy for Chimpy.
not much tho...
by lowearthorbital 2004-09-30 06:19PM | 0 recs
Kahn
Busted AQ Kahn (that wacky Paki) But only after he gave nukes to NKorea and Iran.  Also knew about him before we invaded Iraq.  Let proliferation happen!
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:20PM | 0 recs
Bush had a minor Moment
His praise of Kerry was a good moment for him.  He went really well from praise to character attack.
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Tonight won't be a draw. I think anyone has to admit that Kerry has been stronger tonight than Bush.
by sharris0512 2004-09-30 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Easily.  Bush is coming off horribly.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Yeah But we need to keep the post debate attack up.  Get some footage of Befuddled Bush and play AD NAUSEAUM!!
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Best Thing Is
If Bush Bailed now, he gives Kerry Major Ammo.  If I am Kerry, I show up and then take questions.  Make Bush look like a coward.
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
It'd be an alright night for Bush if he could get stuff to come out of his mouth instead of looking like he doesn't know what to say.
by sharris0512 2004-09-30 06:24PM | 0 recs
Is there any way for the right to spin this?
I mean, it seems like Lehrer asked a couple of tough, almost-too-tough questions of Bush, so they could complain about bad faith by the moderator...but this has just been a goddam rout for Bush. I don't think Kerry ever broke a sweat. Has Kerry "violated" any debate rules?
by lowearthorbital 2004-09-30 06:25PM | 0 recs
Bush's reaction
"i'm a pretty calm guy" - did you see his face while kerry was saying all that about North Korea??
by seishi 2004-09-30 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush's reaction
Creepy.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:29PM | 0 recs
CSPAN Split Screen
It is really funny to look at Bush when Kerry speaks, he's got this weird blinking, smirking thing going on...
by lojo 2004-09-30 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: CSPAN Split Screen
I know - i switched to cspan when i heard they had a pernament split screen
by seishi 2004-09-30 06:27PM | 0 recs
Broken Rules
THe only Broken Rules were directly addressing the candidates (Which Bush Violated) and the cutaway rule which isn't Kerry's fault and which was BS anyway.
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:28PM | 0 recs
huh
Jenna looks almost sober
by lowearthorbital 2004-09-30 06:31PM | 0 recs
Great Job for Kerry
I think everyone who watched will agree that Kerry won.  The question is what the people who didn't watch will come to think.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:31PM | 0 recs
Spin
Kerry has no plan!!!!
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:33PM | 0 recs
I agree with Carlos
I think the Audience will go up as well.
by Michael 2004-09-30 06:35PM | 0 recs
Good point Joe Scarb.
Bush said "it's hard" 11 times.  Whiney bitch.  Of course it's hard.  This isn't a frat house.
by Just Karl 2004-09-30 06:35PM | 0 recs
Kerry was great
Kerry was amazing.  Kerry has more money than God.  I just donated to this lady Ginny Schrader.  If Kerry has a Democratic Congress we will surely get this country back on track.
by elguapo 2004-09-30 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush's Lemon Face
Why does Bush make that weird face?  It looks like he is sucking on a sour lemon.  I am so glad the networks didn't acquiesce and decided to show a split screen.  I laughed everytime they showed Bush make that weird face.  Why does Ben Ginsberg look like Montgomery Burns?
by mishiem 2004-09-30 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Deabte Open Thread
Does Bush have Alzheimer's? See http://kevincassell.com/PERSON/POLITICS/left/bush.htm
by Leonaz 2004-09-30 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush's Lemon Face
Before the debate, everyone thought the Bush's people got the best of Kerry's debate negotiators but Kerry was clearly enjoying that "briar patch" last night.  Bush came in a little too cocky.  He always loses when he's cocky.  Also, he didn't benefit from lowered expectations.  Although no one should underestimate Bush's debating skills (he did make it to one of the highest offices in the land), he seems to get nervous when he's not considered the underdog.  Last year's SOTU was a disaster, as was his appearance on Russurt.  But when Bush is the underdog, he thrives because the pressure is not on him.  No sitting President should be able to benefit from lowered expectations.  How do you convince our allies to join our coalition if you believe that speech is not your "strong suit".  I'm curious as to whether Bush will participate in the next two debates.  His camp has sent out those "trial ballons' indicating that they will cancel the last two.  I believe that he would perform well in the last two because everyone believes that those formats are not his strong suit.  He will benefit from those lowered expectations.
by mishiem 2004-10-01 02:59AM | 0 recs

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