November 3rd Thread

OK, the networks have called both Ohio and Florida for Bush. The votes are still being counted, but Bush stands at 269 now with those two states, and Colorado.

Nevada and New Mexico also remain.

2000, 2002, 2004... it seems like the same day all over again. We won't give an inch though to the Republican agenda. 2006 starts right now.

If anything changes, post it on this thread, it'll be the first thing I read later on today.

Tags: General 2008 (all tags)

Comments

57 Comments

Bush wins
Anyone know a safe country I can take my draft-aged children to?
by Kevin Hayden 2004-11-02 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush wins
No shit...WTF...
by cgilbert01 2004-11-02 08:28PM | 0 recs
Good work!
I commend you on all of hard and much appreciated work!
by letmelogin 2004-11-02 08:26PM | 0 recs
Not yet
Ohio does look like a lost cause ... and although I really don't hold out any hope, networks calling that state may have jumped the gun.  There are still those provisional votes to be validated and counted.
by mopat 2004-11-02 08:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Not yet
Doubtful they would screw up two elections in a row.  I suspect they were pretty conservative in calling Ohio.
by Randi 2004-11-02 08:29PM | 0 recs
Stolen Race B-voting machines
I analyzed exit polls fron CNN http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html They show 53% to 52% for kerry but Bush leads 51% to 48% (Those Electronic voting machines scare me.)
by Tomtech 2004-11-02 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Stolen Race B-voting machines
I disagree with you,the CNN Exit polls favored Bush.

Ohio Party ID
D - 35 (9 breaking for Bush)
R - 40 (6 breaking for Kerry)
I - 25 (59 breaking for Kerry)

Nationwide
D - 37 (10 breaking for Bush)
R - 37 (7 breaking for Kerry)
I - 26 (50 breaking for Kerry - 2 for Nadar)

That is why some polls where correct with thier weighting more heavy for Republicans than the 2000 numbers.

One Side note is it looks like Badnarik will get almost as many votes as Nadar.

by Patrick Henry 2004-11-02 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Stolen Race B-voting machines
Yes, once they were readjusted to be compatible with the results.  Before that they were way off.
by Mass 2004-11-03 03:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Stolen Race B-voting machines
This is what Supervisor Of Elections Theresa LePore is reporting for Registration and Turnout in Palm Beach County.

Completed Precincts: 686 of 695 (98.71%)

Total Registration     729,575
Total Turnout         454,202 62.26%
Election Day Turnout     404,371 55.43%
Absentee Turnout     49,831     6.83%
Provisional Turnout     0     0.00%

There was a lot of passion in Florida, especially in Palm Beach County. 128,000 absentee ballots were mailed or picked up at Theresa LePore's office according to her estimates. I wonder why the absentee ballot turnout was so low. I also wonder how the total turnout was 8,500 less than in 2000. I called someone in the Florida Kerry Campaign to see if these numbers correlate to their internal calculations.

by MrB 2004-11-02 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Stolen Race B-voting machines
Thinking about it, I'm not sure how many of those 128,000 votes from Palm Beach County were absentee. This may be early voters plus absentees returned with 42,000 more absentee ballots to be mailed by Lapore's office.
by MrB 2004-11-03 02:15AM | 0 recs
November 3rd Thread
Thanks to you and Chris for your great work.  I am sick but we must not give up and things may be a lot different in 2006, when a lot of people will be upset that our troops are still in Iraq.  

The Nixon landslide of 1972 was also depressing but by 1974 his true character was exposed.  Tricky Dick was a great president compared to our present lunatic, though.  He will get what he deserves, somehow.

by cimoli 2004-11-02 08:30PM | 0 recs
Constant error
All the exit polls are in kerry's favor but somehow bush keeps doing 3 to 5% over exit polls in multiple states. This is way outside the range of probabilities
by Tomtech 2004-11-02 08:31PM | 0 recs
Ohio
Cnn has not called it yet.  We are short-stacked, with about 3 outs on the river.
by yitbos96bb 2004-11-02 08:33PM | 0 recs
The first step to 2006 is
firing Terry McAuliffe.

Two failures is enough.

by RBH 2004-11-02 08:33PM | 0 recs
this cannot be...
i have to believe that Flordia went red because of the dirty tricks of the GOP. can't they be held accountable? what are the legal answers? someone call greg palast!! ohio isn't over yet! right now, i'm hearing on air america that counties that have yet to be completely tallied are supposed Kerry strongholds. just because fox called ohio for bush, don't give up! where is ap's report? cbs? abc? fox also called flordia in 2000, remember? also, don't read into the popular vote tally. california is going to go kerry in a big way and they only have 10-20% in at this time. even if the impossible happens, our community will not lie down and concede. we will fight with NO end!!!
by basstom1 2004-11-02 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: this cannot be...

I am still very wary about those electronic voting machines in FL.  They were the ones that didn't have any paper trail.  Lots of votes cast on those machines, and early balloting too.

There were reports of machine malfunctions.  People voted for Kerry, and straight democrat, then when they got to the final screen they found that all their votes had been switched to Bush/republican.  What's the situation with this?  They need to get those machines and have them examined ASAP.  Probably, with all the BS going on there, these machines will have disappeared.  If they rig just 1 out of every 20 machines, how many votes is that?  Or make the machines vote for Bush twice on every 1000th vote?  I hope the FL vote totals get a lot of scrutiny.  I am very suspicious.

by nkp 2004-11-02 08:43PM | 0 recs
STOP!

I don't want Kerry to concede until every last vote has been counted, until all the provisionals have been taken account of, until every last doubt has been resolved.

There is no reason we should throw in the towel now.  I want this fight to be fought to the bitter end, then I want everyone to stand tall and keep on fighting.

There is no way that I am willing, or even contemplating, to give the republicans an inch of space.  They will have to answer for every action, for all of the voter intimidation, for all of their dirty tricks.

The question of who governs this country, and how it is governed is not settled by this election.  The election settles nothing.  Even if Kerry had won, nothing would be settled.  It just makes the battles that much harder to fight.  If we just roll over and let them run over us, then they will without giving it a second thought.  We need to keep active, to keep a hand and a voice in how this country is governed.

I'm not ready to concede!

by nkp 2004-11-02 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: STOP!
Amen brother!
by basstom1 2004-11-02 08:36PM | 0 recs
Bush 2004
Interesting Result:
  1. War killed and costs keep mounting with no end in sight
  2. Federal budget deficit is huge
  3. Job losses are huge
  4.  Trade deficit is huge
  5.  US prestige is at new lows world wide
  6.  US is now a huge international debtor
Weird, I don't understand the American Electorate
giving this President 4 more years.  
Consider that another recession is coming in 2005 as the world and our economies get weaker.
by lonrand 2004-11-02 08:38PM | 0 recs
Bush has a 100k lead in Ohio
and 250k provisional ballots not counted. I haven't seen the final count on absentee ballots yet either.

Ohio has not been called by CNN yet and the other media fuck heads are too early.

by Gary Boatwright 2004-11-02 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Bush has a 100k lead in Ohio
My first post here... though I've been watching this site for a month -- thanks for all the hard work...

CNN and ABC have NOT called Ohio for Bush yet... and as of right now, Bush leads by only about 102,000 votes.

I'm very very sad... and fear for where our country is going...

A.

by AmyCrat 2004-11-02 08:41PM | 0 recs
The Networks are Premature
Kerry will win Ohio. I worked at the polling station - in a heavily Democratic polling station. There were two things that stuck in my head 1. an enormous amount of provisional ballots (every one that I knew of was for Kerry) 2. a whole lot of democrats voted by absentee ballots. This will put Kerry over the top. It would be a repeat of Al Gore to say anything early right now by the Kerry camp - of course they can say they are going to win Ohio. These people waited hours to vote - were turned down, even though they were valid Ohio voters - and had to go the County Board of Elections to cast their provisional ballots. Also, just as many cast provisional ballots at the precinct after standing up to RNC challenges. Kerry will win Ohio. Hang in there. I always knew this was going to last a while.
by political 2004-11-02 08:40PM | 0 recs
Re: The Networks are Premature
You guys are dreaming. I would love to believe it, but it's not happen. You don't make up 100K, no way
by davego 2004-11-02 08:42PM | 0 recs
The Networks are Premature
Kerry will win Ohio. I worked at the polling station - in a heavily Democratic polling station. There were two things that stuck in my head 1. an enormous amount of provisional ballots (every one that I knew of was for Kerry) 2. a whole lot of democrats voted by absentee ballots. This will put Kerry over the top. It would be a repeat of Al Gore to say anything early right now by the Kerry camp - of course they can say they are going to win Ohio. These people waited hours to vote - were turned down, even though they were valid Ohio voters - and had to go the County Board of Elections to cast their provisional ballots. Also, just as many cast provisional ballots at the precinct after standing up to RNC challenges. Kerry will win Ohio. Hang in there. I always knew this was going to last a while.
by political 2004-11-02 08:42PM | 0 recs
11 More Days
Ken Blackwell , Ohio Attorney General is on CNN right now.. He say if there are more provisional ballots that the vote difference (looks likely) they will not be counted for 11 days. Also, absentee ballots have 10 days to arrive.

He seemed like an honest guy & said they will take their time & count all of the votes.

I feel a lot better that it comes down to Ohio rather than Florida. It is NOT over yet... Someone tell Kerry not to concede!

by jvc 2004-11-02 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: 11 More Days
He's not an honest guy.  He's the genius that put forth the edict that all voter registration cards had to be on 80 lb card stock.  He's basically the Katherine Harris of Ohio.  Other people feel free to fill in other things he's done.
by Elwood Blues 2004-11-02 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: 11 More Days

Why are they waiting 11 days?

Start counting them now.  The longer they wait, the more likely it becomes that the provisional ballots aren't counted at all.  The longer they hold out, the more it sinks into peoples mind that Bush won, and that's what they want.

If there are thousands of uncounted ballots, then this election is not over yet.

by nkp 2004-11-02 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: 11 More Days
First of all, the overseas military ballots have 10 days to arrive..

They are not doing nothing with the provisionals for 11 days... the ouside of the envelopes have the voter's information... they use this to either allow or dissallow the ballots..... then when they are all done, the ones that are allowed get counted.. makes sense, that way they don't know whether they are aloowing or rejecting a bush or kerry vote... not like Florida with those people holding the ballots up to the light..

The provisional ballots were part of the solution to the problems from 2000... They are not a bad thing... first of all, we don't know how many there are... could be a lot more than 200,000.... and I think a large percentage are Kerry votes...

I think we have to forget about the idea of knowing who wins the election by 11:00 pm... How about having the election go on for a few weeks & give everyone time to vote & get the votes counted..after a long, drawn out election process, what's the rush? We need serious election reform.

by jvc 2004-11-03 12:38AM | 0 recs
Ohio
Ohio is not dead. The election is not over. It is looking depressing.

I don't think Kerry will concede.

by cspoirot 2004-11-02 08:49PM | 0 recs
are IA and WI safe for kerry?
  1. We're assuming a 269-269 victory with holding IA and WI--the last I checked, we're down in IA and nailbitingly close in both NV (surprisingly) and WI (not as surprising).  

  2. How much was Gore down by election night?  I seem to remember about a few million, same as tonight.  The one thing I fear is that we probably could win in OH with the provisionals and the absentees, and even possibly FL was called too early (although I'm less hopeful here).  If we're down significantly in the popular vote, then the pressure's going to be relentless on Kerry to concede.

  3. I know you warned us about the exit polls, but why were they so off?  I can see 1-2 points, but 5-6!!
by jsramek 2004-11-02 08:50PM | 0 recs
not optimistic
Bush is up by 100K votes right now with about 8% left.  This is not Florida, whose final margin was 500 votes, this is a lot of votes.  

Assuming 200k provisional votes, we would have to win those votes 150K to 50K.  Ain't going to happen by a long shot.

About the exit polls: the exit polls are systematically flawed.  I wish I could say that Bush cheated and outperformed exit polls, but the fact he did so in almost every single state leads me to one sad conclusion, the exit polls royally fucked up.

The reason?  All polls rely on the results being standardized to a voter model.  Most models assume something like 37% Dems, 33% Reps.  The problem is that those models don't appear to be correct anymore.  A bunch of people apparently switched to Reps after 9/11.

If we lose Ohio by 100K votes and claim we were cheated, we're just kidding ourselves and the American people will punihs us even more.  We didn't just lose Ohio, we lost Florida, Iowa, New Mexico, and an assload of Senate and House seats.  We have to accept it and figure out what to do next.

Anyway, let's not give up until the remainder of the Ohio votes are counted, but if the result stays the same, let's be classy losers and immediately get to work at preventing the Reps from pushing through their destructive agenda.

by alhill 2004-11-02 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: not optimistic
Amen - I appriciate your statements you are right on!
by Patrick Henry 2004-11-02 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: not optimistic
The GOP was conducting challenges, not the Democrats, nearly all of the provisional votes are potentally valid democratic votes.

At the moment; with 95% of the precincts counted, Bush leads by 102K, if there are more than 150,000 provisional votes, and they are validated and counted, Kerry wins.

by leschwartz 2004-11-02 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: not optimistic
Yes, but there are not enough.  He would have to win all of them.
by Mass 2004-11-03 03:22AM | 0 recs
Is someone doing a statistical analysis?
Brief review seems to show a clear pattern in that the exit poll errors are concentrated in a few places, all rural Republican counties, and all strongly in favor of Bush.  Statistically the chance of this wide of an error happening this broadly is virtually nil.  Either there was a systematic failure of a) all of the pre-election polls and b) all the exit polls, or the vote counts don't match the polls due to fraud.

It would be very interesting to have someone look at all the results, isolate the error districts, and look for commonalities (like the same voting machines).

by AmberChaos 2004-11-02 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Is someone doing a statistical analysis?
Yes... EXACTLY!  This should be investigated closely.
by gbrwood 2004-11-03 06:32AM | 0 recs
CNN posts Ohio as formall too close to call
100,000 difference.

If Bush wins all the states in which he leads NOW (IA, NV, NM), and Kerry wins the ones in which he has a lead (WI, MI, MN, HI), then Bush still has only 266...

Dig in.  Ken Blackwell (Elec. Chief, Ohio), says, with about 200,000 prov ballots at least, and Military ballots, "Take a deep breath and wait."

by brainscientist 2004-11-02 08:55PM | 0 recs
Final Tally
Looks like Bush wins Iowa, Nevada and New Mexico, giving him 286 votes.

As such an Ohio challenge is viable, BUT we should only challenge if the margin is 50K or less.  If we make a big deal out of Ohio when we are down by 100K, we just look like bad losers.  50K is close enough that it's worth a shot to wait for provisionals, do recounts, etc.

Also, this isn't 2000.  Bush is winning the popular vote by 3-4 million right now.  At a certain point, we have to concede, but it's still way too early right now.

by alhill 2004-11-02 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Final Tally

If Bush wins Iowa, Nevada and New Mexico, it gives him 266.

If Kerry wins Wisonsin, Michigan, and Hawaii, it gives him 248.

Ohio decides this election, and if Kerry takes Ohio, then he wins with 268.

I still think that Kerry can win Iowa and Nevada, maybe even New Mexico.

With two-hundred thousand provisional ballots in Ohio still uncounted, this race is still open.

Bush will not win the popular vote.

Do not concede until January.

by nkp 2004-11-02 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Final Tally

Make that 272.

Ohio decides this election, and if Kerry takes Ohio, then he wins with 272.

Need to double-check those numbers.

by nkp 2004-11-02 09:32PM | 0 recs
Florida

I still dispute the Florida results.

The senate vote totals and the presidental vote totals aren't even.  Shouldn't they be?  It looks like about 150 thousand more votes were cast in the presidential race.

What about all those undelivered absentee ballots?  Are all the provisional ballots counted?  What about the electronic machine malfunctions?

All these issues have to be investigated, and accounted for.

by nkp 2004-11-02 09:28PM | 0 recs
I don't think a challenge would be good for anyone
This election is not 2000. Bush has the popular vote and it looks like the republicans may pick up 5 seats in the senate and 7 or 8 in the house.

I agree with getting rid of Terry McAuliffe. Reformualte the platform.

by Patrick Henry 2004-11-02 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think a challenge would be good for an
I agree.  By challenging in Ohio, it may be possible for Kerry to win the electoral vote.  But it basically makes all of us who bitched about the 2000 election results hypocrites, in a way, if he wins the electoral vote without the popular vote.  Then we have to listen to the Republicans bitch, like we have, for four years about the unelected president.

I'd rather that not happen, as much as I really, REALLY want Kerry into the office.

The American public has already failed the test.

by Drilian 2004-11-02 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't think a challenge would be good for an
Though I do believe that the provisional ballots should all be counted, since they ARE legitimate votes.

So...conflicted...brain...hurts...

by Drilian 2004-11-02 09:47PM | 0 recs
Every vote should be counted
John Edwards stated that every vote counts and would be counted, which, when it comes to provisional ballots, which are not the fault of the voters and which are provided for under law, is exactly as it should be.

NO CONCESSION until all the votes are counted.  It is the right of voters to have their votes counted.

by mopat 2004-11-02 09:45PM | 0 recs
What happened?
I'm not conceding yet...I don't feel good about Ohio, honestly, and in the end I regretfully thing Bush will get his four more years.  But I guess I'm holding out hope, maybe a miracle will occur...probably not.  "Maybe/Probably not/but I still have to hope" is basically my mindset right now.

Still, I want to know.  What happened to the obscene tail-kicking Bush was supposed to get?  311-227?  Upsets in Arkensas?  Missouri?  Colorado?

Guys, I'm not challenging the integrity of your predicting or anything.  I'm not saying "You lied to me, I'm not listening to you anymore."  But I just want to know, so I feel better and more confident before I latch on to your "2006 starts today" mindset.  Someone please, just tell me what  went wrong.  I want to know what happened to 2004 before 2006 starts.

by Kjorteo 2004-11-02 10:04PM | 0 recs
Three things happened
Why did we lose when we thought we would win:

  1.  MyDD's and most other pollsters' projections were based on historic party ID, but party ID has changed since 9/11.  More people are Reps now than on 9/10.

  2. We were relying on heavy turnout and assumed we would win if it happened, and never suspected that the Reps would match if not exceed our GOTV efforts.

  3.  I kept telling the MyDD guys all along that spliting undecideds 86% was over-optimistic.  Don't know the final numbers yet, but it looks pretty clear that the undecideds didn't split anything close to that for us.
by alhill 2004-11-02 10:13PM | 0 recs
Moral issues
I lost count of the number of Catholics who said they have always voted Democrat but couldn't support Kerry on abortion and embryonic stem-cell research.  I believe that accounts for the change in the Latino vote, as well as many other traditionally Democratic voters.

Until the Dems realise that people DO care about these matters, the GOPs will continue to hold the high ground.  I recognised that in 2000 and saw it play out again today.

by mopat 2004-11-02 10:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Moral issues
Well what are we supposed to do about that?  Stop championing science and liberty to try to pander to them?  I see that the modern-day-incarnate Creationists do have the power to shut everything down, yes.  But there's only so much you can do to play around that without completely abandoning what makes people like me find the Democrats worth supporting over the Republicans.

Nice to know a full-fledged theocracy isn't far off, by the way.

by Kjorteo 2004-11-02 11:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Moral issues
By the way, I think http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/ballot.measures/ is about the single most depressing thing I've ever seen.
by Kjorteo 2004-11-03 12:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Moral issues
I don't think abortion is a science issue.  I don't even believe late-term abortions are a choice issue. I believe such abortions belong in the realm of human rights.

But whatever your personal views, Democrats will have to get used to the idea that for as long as we, as a party, support abortion at any stage up until birth, the Dems will remain in the political wilderness.  I think this is an issue where Democrats could make some concession.  If not, this will be replayed time after time after time.

Dems are going to have to decide whether they can swallow some pride or whether they prefer increasingly right-wing government. It's that simple.

by mopat 2004-11-03 12:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Moral issues
You are probably right. Exit polls show that "values" was a winner for Bush.  He couldn't win on terrorism alone.  Disgusting, when his "values" say it is OK to start a worldwide religious war which is likely to kill millions of people in the long run.

30 years ago abortion wasn't much of a political issue- few knew that even Gerald Ford was pro-choice. The GOP has since cleverly used relative fringe issues like abortion and now gay marriage to win elections, despite having unpopular economic and foreign policies.  

Clinton has suggested handling the abortion issue better- remain basically pro-choice, but stop pushing "a woman's right to choose" in an attempt to get votes.  This isn't necessary in the northeast and far west, and it hurts in other places. Also, support for late term abortions is a clear political loser.

Speaking out for the right things doesn't help if you can't get elected, and the move toward having Democrats unelectable in almost half the country is unacceptable. When our presidential candidate is not even competitive in a non-southern state like West Virginia which is still heavily Democratic, this should be a wake up call. It's time to consider a different strategy.      

by cimoli 2004-11-03 03:31AM | 0 recs
What now...
  1. Fight: count ALL the votes and force the Repuglicans to once again us the courts to try to stop American citizens' votes from being counted.

  2. Take a long hard look (we have 11 days it seems) at the electronic voting machines and the contrast between the exit polls and the results.  We had companies railroad these paperless machines through our system (esp in Florida and Ohio!?) and now NO ONE is going to ask the most obvious questions!?  Come one!  We should consider civil disobedience or extreme measures to focus attention on the paperless/auditless voting systems that have been foisted upon us!

  3.  Organize like our lives depended upon it!  In the last few years we have developed amazing electronic networks and virtual communities.  We need to maintain and expand these networks NOW to focus on the future.  I assume that Bush and his cronies will stay in power... IMAGINE what they will try to do in the next 4 years.  They must be repudiated and the 2006 elections MUST not be like 2002!

Fight fight fight... these guys never stop at anything and we must be ever vigilant!  (Like many of you, this all makes me sick to my stomach.... can't believe this twit may have 4 more years!
by gbrwood 2004-11-02 11:25PM | 0 recs
Re: What now...
Unfortunately, nothing says "Keep fighting" and "Keep organized" quite like amassing the single largest effort ever and not even being able to defeat George W. Bush.

I saw the exit polls on CNN that basically said the youth turnout was practically identical to 2000.  Want to know why we were shattering records for registration just in time to get whomped?  Because those newly registered stayed home, apparently.

I felt...betrayed when I heard that, quite honestly.  Not by the commendable people trying to get these people to vote (hey, my sister did major GOTV drives in New Mexico,) but by the people who apparently couldn't be bothered even after all our hard work.

Everyone kept saying that the 18-24 demographic would end up deciding our next President.  In a way, I guess they did.

It's sickening.

by Kjorteo 2004-11-02 11:50PM | 0 recs
new media needed
This morning feels like the dark day that it is, but I haven't given up hope yet. I think we need to hold on to that, to demand recounts, and to make a stink about a lack of paper trail.

For 2006: We need a new media. Make no mistake: If we cannot shift the media--and the myths and archetypes that it presents--we cannot win. We must start with the internet, create new models of communication, and partner to make them work. We need to stand behind them; we need to fund them; we need to make them so desirable that they will reach across partisan lines--like Obama has been doing: not to cave but to enlist GOP in our quest to return justice and wisdom to our country, which is built on the truly great principles of freedom and democracy. Let's create a new media to fight this fight--and let's all boycott new organizations. Drop your subscriptions to your local or regional newspaper if it is bought and sold. Refuse to give networks ratings. And put your money into internet media! If we all band together on this, we could sock it to the newspapers. I used to work at one; if we all pulled out, it  would wreak havoc on their system and cause them to reconsider their bought-and-sold reporting tactics.

by BriVT 2004-11-03 02:25AM | 0 recs
SHOULD I HATE MY OWN COUNTRY?
I am very sad for our country today.  Our hopes for a new future are gone.  I was really excited yesterday before the election, and believed that Kerry was going to win by a landslide.  

I do not understand how so many people can look at our country and project that Bush should be reelected. Can someone please explain this to me!

The only explanation is that people just didn't want to ask themselves "Are we better now than we were four year ago". Maybe if they had just asked that question one time Kerry would have one by a landslide.

GOD BLESS AMERCIA PLEASE!

by ttayweloc 2004-11-03 03:25AM | 0 recs
GET READY
I hate to sound apocalyptic, but we should be getting ready for a storm instead of fooling ourselves about Ohio or whatever. Bush is going to take no prisoners and everything will be on the table.
He is the most dangerous man in the world and he just got a lot more dangerous.
by davego 2004-11-03 03:55AM | 0 recs

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